Charter Review Board, 7-27-00 **NOTIFICATION: **This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the following **meeting. It should be used for informational purposes only. **This document has not been edited; therefore, there may be **additions, deletions, or words that did not translate. >>DAVID HURLEY: GOOD EVENING. WELCOME TO THE AUGUST -- JULY 27th MEETING OF THE -- WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE ALONG HERE -- JULY 27th MEETING OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. GERALD WHITE IS GOING TO LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AT THIS TIME. >>DAVID HURLEY: WILL THE CLERK CALL THE ROLL. [ ROLL CALL TAKEN ] >>DAVID HURLEY: THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO READ THIS INTO THE RECORD. WE GOT AN E-MAIL FROM DENISE LASHER. I'LL BE UNABLE TO ATTEND THE MEETING OF JULY 27th DUE TO AN OUT-OF-TOWN MEETING. I HAVE BEEN ON ENOUGH OF THESE THINGS WITH DENISE. SHE WILL WATCH THE VIDEO. DON'T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT DENISE. SHE WILL BE WATCHING. THE MINUTES WERE NOT READY AT THIS TIME. THE CLERK'S SON WAS IN AN ACCIDENT AND SHE HAD SOME THINGS TYING HER TIME UP THERE. BUT WE'LL HAVE THOSE -- WE'LL DEFER THAT UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT THE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WE HAVE AT THIS POINT WILL BE FOR ANYONE WHO DOES NOT WANT TO SPEAK TO THE INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR BUDGET ANALYST THING THAT WE'RE HAVING. AND THAT, IF YOU ARE SPEAKING TO THAT, THEN THAT PUBLIC HEARING STARTS AT 8:00. IS THERE ANYONE WHO IS HERE TO SPEAK ASIDE FROM THAT? MS. LAYNE. >> GOOD EVENING, BOARD. I JUST HAVE -- DENISE LAYNE, PRESIDENT OF THE LUTZ CIVIC ASSOCIATION. I JUST HAVE A SUGGESTION OR REQUEST, AND Y'ALL CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH IT. WHEN I'M NOT HERE I AM WATCHING YOU ON TV WHEN THEY TELEVISE IT. I NOTICE AT 10:00 YOU ARE GOING A LITTLE HUNGRY, EDGY, A LITTLE TIRED. AND NOT JUST FOR YOUR SAKE, BUT BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE CITIZEN COMMENT AT THE END AS WELL, AND WHEN I'M HERE, IF PREFERABLE, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO SAY AND WHAT YOUR DISCUSSIONS ARE DURING THE MEETING WHICH ARE VERY INTERESTING AND BE ABLE TO COMMENT AFTERWARDS. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO CONVINCE YOUR HUSBAND YOU NEED TO STAY UNTIL 11:00 AT NIGHT. JUST FOR CITIZENS' SAKE, INPUT AND YOURSELF, YOU MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT A TIME LIMIT. TEN O'CLOCK IS A FOUR-HOUR MEETING AND ADJOURN IT FROM THERE. JUST A SUGGESTION. >>DAVID HURLEY: I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT IDEA. ANYONE ELSE? MR. JIM HOSLER, WE HAVE AGREED TO GIVE TWO MINUTES TO HIM. HE'S GOING TO EXPLAIN THE REAPPORTIONMENT TO US. I THINK EACH OF YOU HAVE THIS IN -- >> TWO MINUTES. GOOD EVENING, JIM HOSLER, PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF. I BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE A COPY OF A PIECE OF PAPER THAT LOOKS SOMETHING LIKE THIS. IT SAYS AT THE TOP "TO CHANGE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CHARTER REGARDING REAPPORTIONMENT." VERY BRIEFLY, IF YOU GOT YOUR CHARTER WITH YOU, SECTION 4.06, ADDRESSES REAPPORTIONMENT OF THE FOUR SINGLE MEMBER -- HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY DISTRICTS FOLLOWING THE CENSUS. THE FIRST SENTENCE OF 4.06 ADDRESSES THE TIMING OF THAT. AND IT SAYS, WITHIN 120 DAYS FOLLOWING CERTIFICATION OF THE FEDERAL DICENTENIAL CENSUS, THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SHALL REAPPORTION DISTRICTS 1 THROUGH 4. NOW THIS IS THE WAY IT'S BEEN DONE, I GUESS, SINCE THE CHARTER HAS BEEN IN PLACE, BUT THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THAT WORDING. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE TIMING. I'VE DISCUSSED THIS WITH THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS. AND SHE'S IN AGREEMENT THAT WE ARE SUGGESTING A CHANGE TO THE CHARTER, A WORDING CHANGE, IT'S THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THAT PARAGRAPH THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEM. IT'S THE 120 DAYS AFTER CERTIFICATION OF THE FEDERAL CENSUS. IT IS OUR CURRENT UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CENSUS IS CERTIFIED BY THE U.S. -- BY THE SECRETARY OF THE COMMERCE ON DECEMBER 31st OF THIS YEAR. AND HE CERTIFIES THE CENSUS, HE OR SHE, ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF U.S. HOUSE REAPPORTIONMENT SO ONLY STATE LEVEL DATA THAT'S CERTIFIED ON DECEMBER 31st OF THIS YEAR. IF WE'RE -- THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, WE DON'T GET THE DATA HERE AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR AT THE COUNTY TO DO THE -- THE SMALL AREA REAPPORTIONMENT UNTIL APRIL THE 1st. IT COMES OUT UNDER WHAT'S CALLED "PUBLIC LAW," 94-171. IF THE CLOCK STARTS DECEMBER 31st AND WE DON'T GET THE DATA UNTIL APRIL THE 1st, WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE TIME TO FULFILL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CHARTER LISTED THERE IN THE REST OF 4.06 AS IT DEALS WITH PUBLIC NOTICE AND PUBLIC HEARINGS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING FOR CHANGE IS THE WORDING THAT'S AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE WHICH SAYS, WITHIN 120 DAYS WITHIN RECEIPT BY COUNTY GOVERNMENT OF REDISTRICTING DATA BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UNDER PROVISIONS OF PUBLIC LAW 94-171. AND THAT'S THE CHANGE, THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SHALL REAPPORTION DISTRICTS 1 THROUGH 4. HAVING WORKED WITH THE CENSUS FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF, AND BEING A DEMOGRAPHER, I CAN TELL YOU THERE IS GOING TO BE VERY SERIOUS ISSUES REGARDING THE CENSUS WITH REGARDS TO ACCURACY. QUITE A BIT OF LEGAL CHALLENGE OF THE REDISTRICTING WE COME UP WITH. THE PHILOSOPHY THAT THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTION AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF HAD, IF THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT WE CAN CORRECT, A PROBLEM AHEAD OF TIME, LET'S GO AHEAD AND CORRECT IT. I THINK I PROBABLY TOOK FOUR MINUTES INSTEAD OF TWO, CHAIRMAN. BUT THAT'S MY PRESENTATION. AND THAT'S THE SUGGESTION. >>DAVID HURLEY: I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR. >>DEE WILLIAMS: YOU DO MEAN SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT? >> THERE WAS AN ERROR AT THE TOP. IT IS SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT, NOT AT LARGE. >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION. USING PROVISION WHERE IT STATES 94.171. IFS THAT WAS CHANGED WE WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THE CHARTER. WOULD THAT BE IN THERE, ON RECEIPT OF THE GOVERNMENT? >> THAT'S A GOOD POINT. YOU COULD TO LEAVE WITH RECEIPT OF THE SMALL -- THE THING IS, THERE'S A FEDERAL LAW THAT THEY GO UNDER, 94-171. I SUPPOSE YOU CAN LEAVE THAT WORDING OUT AND IT WOULD MEAN AS LONG AS THE INTENT WAS THE SAME, IT WOULD MEAN THE SAME THING. IN '90 AND 2000, THAT'S THE LAW THAT GOVERNS RECEIPT LEASE OF THE SMALL DATA, 74-171. PUT 94-171 AS AMENDED. I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT WOULD WORK. >> LOOKS TO ME THAT WOULD CHANGE OR WHATEVER IT WAS IN 1994 AND UPDATED EVERY NOW AND THEN AND THEN GO AND GET THE CHANGE TO THE CHARTER SOME OTHER TIME. >> THAT'S A GOOD POINT. PERHAPS YOUR COUNSEL COULD TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND SUGGEST SOME ALTERNATIVE WORDING. THAT WAS IT. >>DAVID HURLEY: OKAY. THANK YOU, JIM. >> THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: OKAY. THAT -- WE CAN BRING IT UP IN BOARD DISCUSSION AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING. MAYOR BARFORD NEEDS TO -- SHE HAS A MEETING AT 7:00, SO SHE NEEDS TO GET HERE AND GET OUT. WE ARE LIMITING -- LIMITING OUR SPEAKER AND COMMENT FOR 30 MINUTES. SO IF YOU ARE HAVING QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKERS, PLEASE WRITE THEM DOWN AND TRY TO MAKE THEM CLEAR AND CONCISE. MAYOR BARFORD. >> MR. VICE-CHAIRMAN AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS, SEVERAL FOLKS HAD ENCOURAGED ME TO COME AND ADDRESS THIS BOARD AS A SMALL MUNICIPALITY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE IN THE PROCESS OF RECOMMENDATION TO CHARTER AMENDMENTS, BUT SMALL MUNICIPALITIES LIKE TEMPLE TERRACE HAVE SOME CONCERNS. I WILL BE VERY BRIEF. AS THE MAYOR OF TEMPLE TERRACE, THE THIRD LARGEST CITY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND CELEBRATING ITS 75th YEAR OF INCORPORATION, IT IS A PLEASURE TO ADDRESS THIS BOARD AS YOU ADDRESS YOUR COMPREHENSIVE STUDY OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CHARTER. I SERVED ON THE TEMPLE TERRACE CITY COUNCIL FOR EIGHT YEARS PRIOR TO BEING ELECTED MAYOR IN '98 FOR A FOUR-YEAR TERM. AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, I HAVE SERVED ON AND CHAIRED MANY BOARDS AND COMMITTEES ON STATE, REGIONAL, AND LOCAL LEVELS, AND CURRENTLY SERVES AS TEMPLE TERRACE'S REPRESENTATIVE TO THE M.P.O., CHAIR OF THE TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED COORDINATING BOARD, AND SERVES ON THE COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS. THESE POSITIONS ENABLE ME TO WORK CLOSELY WITH MEMBERS OF THE BOCC AND THE COUNTY STAFF. TEMPLE TERRACE IS A CITY OF 22,000-PLUS RESIDENTS AND ENCOMPASSES APPROXIMATELY 26 SQUARE MILES IN NORTHEAST HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. THE TEMPLE TERRACE CHARTER STATES THAT THERE SHALL BE A DISTINCT SEPARATION OF LEGISLATIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS WITH LEGISLATIVE POWERS VESTED IN AND EXERCISED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND ALL ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS VESTED IN AND EXERCISED BY THE CITY MANAGER. CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS AND A MAYOR ARE ELECTED IN A NONPARTISAN FORMAT, AT LARGE, ON REGULAR ELECTION CYCLES. THE MAYOR, ACCORDING TO OUR CHARTER, PRESIDES AT MEETINGS AND IS GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS HEAD OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT, BUT HAS NO VOTE EXCEPT TO BREAK A TIE. ELECTED OFFICIALS IN TEMPLE TERRACE RECEIVE NO SALARY. THE CITY COUNCIL HIRES THE CITY ATTORNEY WHO REPRESENTS THE COUNCIL IN THE CITY IN LEGAL MATTERS AND ALSO HIRES THE CITY AUDITOR AND CITY CLERK. OUR CITY GOVERNMENT FORMAT IS WORKING WELL, AND WE COUNT ON 70 TO 75% VOTER TURNOUT AT OUR MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS. YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IS INDEED AN AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY. AS MAYOR OF TEMPLE TERRACE, I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS AS YOU DELIBERATE ON CHANGES TO THE COUNTY CHARTER. YOU MAY HAVE ALREADY DONE THIS AND COMPLETED THIS, BUT ANYWAY, I'LL PROCEED. IT WILL BE MY RECOMMENDATION THAT THERE BE NO CHANGE IN THE CURRENT STRUCTURE OF THE ELECTED COMMISSION. BASICALLY THE SYSTEM WORKS. GRANTED BETTER DURING SOME ELECTION CYCLES THAN OTHERS, BUT THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IS WORKING AND THE VOTERS ELECT THOSE THEY WANT TO REPRESENT THEM. WE FEEL THE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE, PROVIDING FOR A NONPARTISAN, APPOINTED CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER IS THE BEST FORM OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT. TO MAKE THIS POSITION RESPONSIBLE TO A SINGLE SUPER MAYOR, OFFICEHOLDER, PARTISAN AT THAT, CREATES LESS OBJECTIVITY WITH GREATER POTENTIAL FOR POLITICS. INSTEAD OF BEING ACCOUNTABLE TO THE ELECTED BODY AS A WHOLE, THE ADMINISTRATOR WILL SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF SOLELY ONE INDIVIDUAL. RIGHT OR WRONG, AND DESPITE ASSURANCES FROM OUR LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION, SMALL MUNICIPALITIES LIKE TEMPLE TERRACE ALSO VIEW A STRONG ELECTED COUNTY MAYOR IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AS THE BEGINNING STEP TOWARDS GOVERNMENTAL CONSOLIDATION SUCH AS JACKSONVILLE, DUVAL COUNTY. THIS WILL PROBABLY NOT BEGIN TO HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY, PROBABLY NOT IN MY LIFETIME, BUT NEVERTHELESS, WE FEEL IT WILL BE A STEP IN THAT DIRECTION WITH THE LOSS OF CONTROL OF OUR OWN DESTINY AS A MUNICIPALITY. OUR MUNICIPAL BOUNDARIES WILL BECOME LANDLOCKED, ELIMINATING ANY PROSPECT FOR GROWTH OF OUR COMMUNITY. I WORRIED THAT OUR COMMUNITY WILL BE SURROUNDED BY INCORPORATED AREAS, THEREBY MAKING ANNEXATION DIFFICULT. TO ENHANCE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION CHAIR, THE ROLE COULD BE SPECIFICALLY DEFINED IN THE CHARTER, AND POSSIBLY EXPANDED TO INCLUDE PREPARATION AND DELIVERY OF THE STATE OF THE GOVERNMENT REPORT, AND OUTLINE THE VISION OF THE FUTURE OF THE GOVERNMENT AND THE COMMISSION. TWO, PRIMARY SPOKESPERSON FOR THE GOVERNMENT IN RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. AND THREE, APPOINT MEMBERS OF THE BOCC TO VARIOUS BOARDS AND AUTHORITIES TO WHICH THEY SERVE. ALREADY DEFINED IN THE COUNTY CHARTER, THERE IS A 10% INCREASE IN BASE SALARY FOR THE PERSON WHO SERVES AS COMMISSION CHAIR. IT WILL BE MY RECOMMENDATION THAT COMMISSIONERS SERVE IN AS NONPARTISAN ARENA AS POSSIBLE, AND I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY ABOUT THAT OR NO SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO DO THAT. BUT IT IS NOT SO STATED IN YOUR CHARTER REGARDING PARTISANSHIP, AS IT IS NOT IN OURS. WE ARE NONPARTISAN, BUT IT DOESN'T SO STATE IN OUR CHARTER, AND IT DOESN'T STATE IN THE COUNTY CHARTER EITHER, BUT THEY DO RUN ON A PARTISAN TICKET. THREE, IT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS AND I WILL JUST BRIEFLY MAKE A FEW STATEMENTS REGARDING AN INTERNAL AUDITOR. IT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION THAT THERE NOT BE AN INDEPENDENT AUDITOR TO LOOK AT HOW TAX DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THE COMMISSION ALREADY HAS THE POWER TO HIRE INDEPENDENT AUDITORS WHENEVER IT PLEASES TO INVESTIGATE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. THE LAW CURRENTLY REQUIRES INDEPENDENT FINANCIAL AUDITS OF ALL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE CLERK OF THE COURT CONDUCTS REGULAR CASH AUDITS AND COMPLIANCE AUDITS OF ALL DEPARTMENTS HANDLING PUBLIC MONEY WITH PROPER DOCUMENTATION. THE FOCUS OF RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD REMAIN WITH THE BOCC. PERFORMANCE AUDITS ARE ALREADY CONDUCTED TO ENSURE THE COUNTY OPERATIONS ARE EFFICIENT AND IN COMPLIANCE. THIS IS VERY BRIEF, BUT IT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION, AND I APPRECIATE YOU ALLOWING ME TO MAKE THESE COMMENTS TO YOU. THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: QUESTIONS, BOARD MEMBERS? I HAVE QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: WAIT A MINUTE. YOU'RE NOT OFF -- >> I COME DOWN HERE ALL THE TIME AND KNOW HOW IT IS. >>DAVID HURLEY: THE CURRENT -- THE WAY THE COUNTY COMMISSION WORKS, THEY SELECT A CHAIRMAN ANNUALLY. >> AMONGST THEMSELVES. >>DAVID HURLEY: AMONGST THEMSELVES. WE HAVE A NEW CHAIRMAN EVERY YEAR. FOR WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING, WOULD YOU THINK LONGER THAN A ONE-YEAR TERM FOR THE CHAIRMAN WOULD MAKE SOME SENSE? >> I THINK -- RIGHT. I THINK THAT THE CHAIR NEEDS TO CARRY A LOT OF WEIGHT, AND NEEDS TO BE A CONSENSUS BUILDER AND A TEAM BUILDER WITHIN THE COMMISSION. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE LONGER THAN THE TIME FRAME THAT IS SET CURRENTLY. SO, YES, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO HAPPEN. >>DAVID HURLEY: AND THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT YOU ARE IN, YOU'RE THE MAYOR, BUT YOU ARE STILL ON THE COUNCIL. >> I HAVE NO VOTE. AND I -- IT'S VERY INTERESTING CONCEPT. BECAUSE THE MAYOR IS A VERY COVETED POSITION. IT'S VERY INTERESTING, ALTHOUGH I HAVE NO VOTE AND I GET NO PAY, BUT IT IS A POWERFUL POSITION IN THAT I CAN CONTROL THE COUNCIL AND THE -- TO BUILD CONSENSUS AND TO WORK AS A TEAM. AND I SEE THAT AS MY ROLE AND THAT'S WHAT I CAMPAIGNED ON. BUT I SEE IT AS BEING AS POWERFUL AS YOU WANT TO MAKE IT. AND I THINK THAT'S THE PERSONALITY OF THE PERSON IN THAT POSITION. >>DAVID HURLEY: WHAT'S THE TERM OF OFFICE FOR THE MAYOR IN TEMPLE TERRACE? >> WE'RE CHANGING CYCLES RIGHT NOW. IT IS A FOUR-YEAR TERM WITH TWO FOUR-YEAR TERMS AS THE TERM LIMIT. BUT WE ARE IN A CHANGE OF CYCLE RIGHT NOW. >>DAVID HURLEY: GERALD. >>GERALD WHITE: I HAVE A QUESTION. MAYOR -- MADAM MAYOR, I LIVE RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF TEMPLE TERRACE -- >> NOW, YOU NEED TO MOVE OVER. [ LAUGHTER ] >>GERALD WHITE: I DO -- MY FAMILY, WE DO OUR SHOPPING, WE GET A LOT OF OUR SERVICE FROM TEMPLE TERRACE ALTHOUGH WE LIVE IN TAMPA. DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL COUNTY COMMISSIONERS? HOW IS THE COMMISSIONER THAT REPRESENTS -- DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE COMMISSIONERS HANDLING THE UNINCORPORATED AREA, YOUR CITY, THE NUMBER OF CITIZENS THAT THIS ONE COMMISSIONER HAS TO REPRESENT? >> RIGHT. I HAVE A REAL COMFORT LEVEL WITH OUR COMMISSIONER WHO REPRESENTS OUR AREA AND THOSE AT-LARGE TOO. I HAVE A WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. AND I THINK THAT'S AN INDIVIDUAL -- YOU KNOW, IT'S A PERSONALITY KIND OF THING AND HOW STRONG YOU ARE AND HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO -- TO UTILIZE THAT, BUT I DO HAVE A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH -- AND THAT'S WHY I'M SO COMFORTABLE WITH MY RECOMMENDATIONS. >>DAVID HURLEY: ANYONE ELSE WITH A QUESTION? MS. WALDRON. >>ARLENE WALDRON: YOU INDICATED THAT YOU HAVE AN INTERNAL AUDITOR? >> WE DO BY LAW. I THINK WE ARE REQUIRED TO. AND WE -- AND IT'S NOT EXTENSIVE. THEY ARE NOT THERE EVERY DAY, EVERY WEEK, BUT THEY REPORT TO THE COUNCIL. IN FACT, THEY WERE JUST AT OUR COUNCIL AT OUR LAST -- AT OUR LAST MEETING TO REPORT ON AN OVERVIEW KIND OF PERSPECTIVE. AND THEN WE, LIKE THE COUNTY COMMISSION, IF WE HAVE A CONCERN, IF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO ARE ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE WAY THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT, WE CAN ALWAYS REQUEST ADDITIONAL AUDITING SERVICES. >>ARLENE WALDRON: EXACTLY WHAT DUTIES DOES THAT AUDITOR PERFORM? >> YOU KNOW, I CAN GET THAT FOR YOU. I DIDN'T BRING THE SPECIFICS, BUT AS I SEE IT, IT'S MORE OF A GENERAL, ROUTINE OVERVIEW THAT'S REQUIRED BY LAW. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S ALL IT IS. UNLESS THEY DO PICK UP ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED BY THE COUNCIL. AND THEY WILL BRING THAT TO US AND HAVE BROUGHT SOME THINGS TO US IN THE PAST, PAST YEARS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT. BUT I CAN GET THAT SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I KNOW THAT'S IMPORTANT TO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DELIBERATE TONIGHT. >>HENRY BELTRAN: DO YOU FEEL THAT THIS AUDITOR IS VERY EFFECTIVE FOR THE CITY OF TEMPLE TERRACE? >> IT IS. IT'S WORKING AND WHAT IS REASSURING TO ME IS IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, WE ARE ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE TO FIX IT. AND WE NEED TO GET SOMEBODY ELSE IN THERE. AND WE WILL DO THAT. AND I THINK WE HAVE A GREAT COMFORT LEVEL WITH OUR FINANCIAL STAFF TO, YOU KNOW, REPORT ACCURATELY AND TO KEEP ON TOP OF OUR FINANCES AND PRESENT A BALANCED BUDGET TO US AT BUDGET TIME, WHICH IS RIGHT NOW. BUT -- I TELL YOU, IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, THEY'RE OUT OF THERE. AND WE HAVE THAT POWER TO DO THAT. >>HENRY BELTRAN: BECAUSE WE'RE CONSIDERING -- AND I THINK IT WILL BE VERY EFFECTIVE TO AN AUDITOR HERE. >> I READ YOUR DRAFT, YES. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: HI. DOES YOUR INTERNAL AUDITOR WORK ALONGSIDE YOUR BUDGET PEOPLE OR DOES THE BUDGET -- DO THEY REPORT TO YOUR CITY MANAGER? DO THEY HAVE A BUDGET STAFF THAT REPORTS TO YOUR CITY MANAGER THAT MAKES UP THE BUDGET AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS? >> IT'S MORE OF AN OVERSIGHT, AND IT'S SPECIFICALLY DURING A PERIOD OF TIME DURING THE YEAR, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY BUDGET TIME, BECAUSE WE'RE COMPETENT TO BRING FORTH A BUDGET. OUR ADMINISTRATION IS. BUT IT'S -- AND I NEED TO GET THAT TO YOU MORE SPECIFICALLY. I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS WAS A PUBLIC HEARING THAT YOU WERE HAVING, AND YOU DO HAVE A DRAFT HERE, AND I CAN GET YOU SPECIFICALLY. BUT IT IS A WORKING RELATIONSHIP, AND THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE COUNCIL. AND THEY DO REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE COUNCIL ON THEIR FINDINGS. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: I HAVE TWO MORE QUESTIONS. >> YES, SIR. >>DAVID HURLEY: NUMBER ONE, PROBABLY THE EASIEST ONE, HOW MANY MEMBERS ON THE CITY COUNCIL? >> THERE ARE FIVE, AND THE MAYOR. >>DAVID HURLEY: PLUS YOU? THAT'S ALL SIX TOGETHER. >> AND I'M NONVOTING. >>DAVID HURLEY: YOU MENTIONED THE COUNCIL MEMBERS CAN BRING UP THE ISSUES TO SEND THE AUDITOR ON THEIR PATH TO FIND THINGS. WHERE DO THESE COUNCIL MEMBERS GET THOSE ISSUES? HOW DO THEY BECOME AWARE OF THOSE ISSUES? >> PROBABLY A VARIETY OF WAYS. FOLKS IN TEMPLE TERRACE HAVE NO HESITANCY TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND PHONE US UP WITH A CONCERN ABOUT SOMETHING. AND IF WE HAVE -- THE PROCESS THAT WE GO THROUGH REALLY IS TO GO THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER, WHO WILL GO THROUGH THE FINANCE DIRECTOR, AND IF IT'S NOT RESOLVED, THEN WE WILL ADDRESS IT MORE SPECIFICALLY ON BROADER BASE. BUT THEY -- THEY GET ISSUES FROM THE RESIDENTS, AND JUST FROM -- AS ISSUES ARE PRESENTED TO -- AGENDA ITEMS ARE PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL, THEY MAY PICK UP CONCERNS. >>DAVID HURLEY: I WAS ONE OF THEM THAT WAS EXCITED FOR YOU COMING HERE AND I HAD SPECIFIC QUESTIONS FOR YOU AND I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>DAVID HURLEY: THANK YOU. I THINK YOU CAN MAKE YOUR MEETING AT 7:00. HE IS RIGHT THERE. >> YOU ALL ARE READY FOR ME? MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS, VERY HONORED TO BE HERE TODAY OR TONIGHT, RATHER. I APOLOGIZE FOR A LITTLE BIT OF MY TARDINESS. AS USUAL, OUR WONDERFUL MALFUNCTION JUNCTION GOT ME LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT YOUR FORMAT IS OR WHAT ROLE YOU WOULD LIKE FOR ME TO PLAY. I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR YOU IF I CONTRASTED A FEW OF THE THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT IN THE PINELLAS COUNTY CHARTER VERSUS THE HILLSBOROUGH CHARTER, AND THEN AFTER THAT, WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO DO IS TRY TO BE A RESOURCE PERSON FOR YOU AND SEE IF I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR SHED ANY LIGHT ON HOW WE'RE DOING THINGS THAT MIGHT BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. IF YOU WANT TO COME BACK TO THE AUDIT ISSUE, I CAN SHARE WITH YOU WHAT WE DO IN OUR COUNTY ON THAT. A LITTLE BIT OF MY BACKGROUND FOR YOU. I'M POLITICALLY CORRECT. I HAVE AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE IN ARCHITECTURE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AND A MASTER'S IN CITY PLANNING FROM FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY. I CAN TALK TO ANY GROUP IN THE STATE AND BE, YOU KNOW, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THAT FENCE WHEN WE NEED TO. I'VE SPENT 31 YEARS IN PUBLIC SERVICE HERE IN THE TAMPA BAY AREA, MOST OF THAT IN PINELLAS COUNTY BETWEEN THE CITY OF ST. PETE AND THE COUNTY, AND I'VE BEEN THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR NOW FOR 22 YEARS. SO I'VE GONE THROUGH QUITE A FEW OF THESE WITH YOU. THE FIRST THING I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR ENTITY ITSELF AS HOW YOU FUNCTION AS A CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION HERE AND WHAT WE HAVE IN PINELLAS. OUR CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION DOES NOT REPORT -- PROVIDE A REPORT TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THEY ARE BASICALLY APPOINTED IN THE CHARTER, DEFINED IN THE CHARTER AS TO WHO THEY REPRESENT, NOT BY INDIVIDUAL, BUT BY GROUPS IN THE COUNTY. IT'S A 15-MEMBER CHARTER BOARD, SIMILAR TO YOURS, BUT IN OUR CASE, IT'S A REPORT THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE. THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS CANNOT CHANGE OR AMEND OR REJECT THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME FROM THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION. THEY GO RIGHT FROM THE COMMISSION TO REFERENDUM. PRIME EXAMPLE OF THAT IS WE JUST WENT THROUGH A REFERENDUM IN PINELLAS COUNTY, AND WE ARE NOW GOING TO YOUR STRUCTURE WITH FOUR SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS AND THREE AT-LARGE WHERE WE PREVIOUSLY HAD FIVE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. BUT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN HILLSBOROUGH IN THAT OUR COMMISSIONERS HAVE TO LIVE -- THE DISTRICTS ARE ELECTED AT LARGE, YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN A GEOGRAPHIC DISTRICT OPPOSED TO THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ANYONE HAVING MORE THAN ONE COMMISSIONER LIVING IN THE SAME AREA. BUT WE ARE -- THIS WAS A REFERENDUM THAT OCCURRED LAST YEAR, VERY CLOSE VOTE, 23 VOTES DIFFERENCE IS WHAT HAS CHANGED THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT IN PINELLAS COUNTY. IN THIS ELECTION, WE WILL BE GOING TO THE SAME FORM YOU HAVE IN HILLSBOROUGH FOR THE SEVEN MEMBER -- FOUR SINGLE MEMBER, THREE AT LARGE. TWO OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE QUITE DIFFERENT THAT I THINK IN MY MANY YEARS HERE, I WILL TELL YOU HAVE CREATED SOME OF THE HARMONY THAT WE HAVE BEEN BLESSED WITH, THAT YOU HAVE NOT HAD ON THIS SIDE OF THE BAY, HAVE BEEN THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A SPECIAL PROVISION IN OUR CHARTER THAT CREATED A UNIFIED PERSONNEL SYSTEM. THE PERSONNEL DEPARTMENT IS AN EXAMPLE, AND THE PERSONNEL DIRECTOR DOES NOT WORK FOR ME AS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. I'M A MEMBER OF A BOARD THAT'S MADE UP OF THE CLERK OF THE COURT, THE SHERIFF, THE PROPERTY APPRAISER, THE TAX COLLECTOR, OUR DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, MYSELF, OUR HUMAN RIGHTS OFFICE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE SPECIAL ENTITIES. WE MAKE UP WHAT'S CALLED THE "UNIFIED PERSONNEL SYSTEM." WE, IN TURN, HIRE THE PERSONNEL DIRECTOR WHO PROVIDES SERVICE TO US. THE BENEFIT OF THAT IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE DIFFERENCE OF OPINION OR DIFFERENCE IN PAY AND CLASSIFICATION BETWEEN ALL THE ENTITIES THAT MAKE UP LOCAL GOVERNMENT. IF YOU'RE A CLERK TYPIST, AS AN EXAMPLE, WORKING FOR ONE OF MY DEPARTMENTS OR A CLERK TYPIST WORKING FOR THE CLERK OF THE COURT OR A CLERK TYPIST WORKING FOR THE SHERIFF, EVERYONE HAS THE SAME PERSONNEL RULES, THE SAME CLASSIFICATION, THE SAME REQUIREMENTS FOR THE JOB, ET CETERA. THAT HAS GONE -- THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES IN OUR GOVERNMENT THAT HAS AVOIDED A LOT OF THE CONFLICTS THAT OCCUR IN A MULTIFACETED GOVERNMENT. IT'S RESULTED IN US NOT COMPETED AMONG OURSELVES FOR PERSONNEL. WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM OF SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, COMING FROM ONE OF MY DEPARTMENTS SAYING, WELL, SHOOT, IF I CAN GO TO WORK FOR THE CLERK OF THE COURT, I CAN MAKE 20 CENTS AN HOUR MORE OR WHATEVER. IT'S ALL THE SAME CLASSIFICATION PLAN AND IT'S BEEN A BLESSING FOR US. AS A RESULT OF THAT, EACH OF THE APPOINTING AUTHORITY HAS A MEMBER. WE APPOINT AN INDEPENDENT PERSONNEL BOARD AND THEY BASICALLY ACT ON GRIEVANCES, PERSONNEL POLICY, ET CETERA. THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DOES NOT TAKE A DIRECT ROLE IN THAT AT ALL. THEY PROVIDE THE BUDGET FUNDING, BUT DO NOT HAVE A DIRECT ROLE. THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY DIFFERENCE IN OUR TWO CHARTERS. ONE OF THE OTHER DIFFERENCES IS WE DO THE SAME THING FOR DATA PROCESSING. WE HAVE A UNIFIED DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM. WE DON'T HAVE A DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM OWNED BY THE PROPERTY APPRAISER, AND A SEPARATE ONE OWNED BY THE CLERK, AND ANOTHER ONE OWNED BY THE COUNTY, WE DO THE SAME THING. EACH OF THE MAJOR PLAYERS IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT APPOINTS A MEMBER TO THE DATA PROCESSING BOARD. THAT BOARD HIRES OUR INFORMATION MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR, AND HE PROVIDES, IN ESSENCE, SERVICE TO ALL OF THE -- ALL OF US WHO MAKE UP COUNTY GOVERNMENT. AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE HAVE NEVER HAD, AND DO NOT HAVE, THE ISSUE THAT HILLSBOROUGH HAS FACED OVER THE YEARS OF HAVING WARRING AMONG THE DIFFERENT PLAYERS AS WHO IS GOING TO RUN THE DP SYSTEM. BASICALLY, WHO IS GOING TO BE ON AN IBM VERSUS WHO IS GOING TO BE ON SOMETHING ELSE. THOSE TWO FACTORS HAVE ALLOWED US TO DEMONSTRATE A LOT OF THE CONSENSUS BUILDING AND HARMONY THAT ONE OF MY OBSERVATIONS OVER THE YEARS HAVE BEEN THAT YOU NOT BEEN BLESSED WITH HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT LATITUDE YOU HAVE IN THAT AREA, BUT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT. ASIDE FROM THAT, MOST OF THE REST OF THE FUNCTIONS WE HAVE IN OUR COUNTY CHARTER ARE VERY SIMILAR TO YOURS. MOST OF THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF PINELLAS COUNTY GOVERNMENT ARE SIMILAR TO YOURS, WITH ONE OTHER EXCEPTION. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF INDEPENDENT AGENCIES. THE AIRPORT IS AN EXAMPLE IS SIMPLY AN OPERATING DEPARTMENT UNDER ME AS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. WE DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE AIRPORT AUTHORITY. WE DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE TRANSIT AUTHORITY -- OR A SPORTS AUTHORITY OR A SEPARATE EXPRESSWAY AUTHORITY. ALL OF THOSE FUNCTIONS DO TEND TO BE UNDER COUNTY GOVERNMENT. AND THAT -- YOU CAN ARGUE EITHER SIDE OF THAT ONE, BUT WE THINK IT TENDS TO AVOID SOME OF THE CONFLICTS THAT OCCUR WITH HAVING MORE THAN ONE AGENCY TRYING TO PROVIDE SERVICE DELIVERY. THE -- THE BASIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE CITIES ARE THE OTHER PRIME FACTOR. WE -- OUR CHARTER FAILED TWICE BACK IN THE LATE '70s AND THEN EARLY '80s BEFORE IT FINALLY PASSED IN THE MID-'80s TO LET US BECOME A CHARTER COUNTY. IT BECAME AS A RESULT OF THAT PRETTY MUCH A STATUS QUO. ALL THE DUTIES THAT ARE BASICALLY AUTHORIZED BY STATE STATUTE TO THE CITIES ARE SPELLED OUT IN OUR CHARTER. ALL THE DUTIES THAT ARE AUTHORIZED TO THE COUNTY ARE SPELLED OUT IN THE CHARTER AND IT IS PRETTY MUCH OF A STATUS QUO SITUATION. THOSE THINGS THAT ARE COUNTYWIDE, IN OUR CASE SUCH AS EMS OR SOLID WASTE, ET CETERA, ARE SPELLED OUT IN THE CHARTER. THOSE THINGS THAT ARE THE CITY'S ARE SPELLED OUT. AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE HAVE VERY FEW INSTANCES. AS YOU KNOW WE HAVE FOUR CITIES TO CONTEND WITH. WE HAVE VERY FEW ACTUAL SERIOUS CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DELIVERING PUBLIC SERVICE VERSUS THE CITY RESPONSIBILITIES. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LEVEL OF DETAIL YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO INTO THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. BUT WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO DO IS SEE IF I CAN BE A RESOURCE WHILE I'M HERE FOR ANY PRESSING ISSUES THAT Y'ALL ARE WORKING ON. SO WITH THOSE COMMENTS, I WILL BE GLAD TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS FOR YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: OKAY. THANKS. MS. WILLIAMS. >>DEE WILLIAMS: I HAVE A QUESTION. I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN YOUR STATEMENT ON YOUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT -- THE AT-LARGE ONES HAVE -- I BELIEVE I HEARD YOU SAID THEY HAVE TO LIVE IN A SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHICAL AREA. HOW DID YOU ESTABLISH THAT? >> UNDER OUR SCENARIO, WE -- LET ME CONTRAST THE PRESENT AND WHAT WE ARE CHANGING TO. UNDER THE PRESENT SCENARIO, WE BASICALLY HAVE FIVE DISTRICTS. THOSE DISTRICTS MUST BE WITHIN 1% OF EACH OTHER IN POPULATION, AND THE COMMISSIONER MUST LIVE IN THAT DISTRICT. AND THAT WAS DONE TO AVOID, AS AN EXAMPLE, TO AVOID US IS FROM BEING ABLE TO ELECT THE MAJORITY OF OUR ELECTORATE FROM, LET'S SAY, THE CITY OF ST. PETE. SO WE BASICALLY ARE GEOGRAPHICALLY DISTRIBUTED. UNDER THE NEW ONE, WE ARE GOING TO THE NEW ONE OCCURS. WE HAVE THREE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS THAT MUST BE WITHIN 1% OF EACH OTHER IN POPULATION. EACH ONE OF THEM WILL REPRESENT A THIRD OF COUNTY, AND EACH COMMISSIONER MUST LIVE IN EACH ONE THOSE THREE DISTRICTS. YOU CANNOT HAVE A SITUATION WHERE TWO AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS END UP ELECTED FROM YOUR PREDOMINANT CITY. WE'VE DONE THE SAME THING ON THE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT ONES. WE WILL HAVE FOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS. FOUR WITHIN -- AND OF COURSE THE COMMISSIONER THEN HAS TO LIVE IN THAT DISTRICT. THAT HAS WORKED VERY WELL FOR US BECAUSE IT'S FORCED THAT REPRESENTATION. IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ELECTED AT-LARGE, WE HAVE FELT STRONGLY OVER THE YEARS THAT THAT AT-LARGE REPRESENTATION SHOULD BE GEOGRAPHICALLY DISBURSED IN THE COUNTY. >>DEE WILLIAMS: BUT WHO DETERMINED THOSE GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS? WHO? >> ACTUALLY, SINCE I HAVE BEEN THERE, I'VE DONE EVERY ONE OF THEM FOR THE BOARD. THEY ARE ALL BASED UPON THE CENSUS. SO IT'S NOT -- WE HAVE NO GERRYMANDERING. WE USE CENSUS TRACT BOUNDARIES. WE MODIFY THOSE. EACH ODD YEAR AFTER THE CENSUS. SO WE'VE DONE OURS, SINCE WE HAVE BAN CHARTER, CHARTER COUNTY, WE HAVE DONE OURS IN APRIL OF '81, APRIL OF '91, AND WILL BE DOING IT IN APRIL OF 2001. THEY ARE STRICTLY BASED ON ESSENTIAL CENSUS TRACT. A GIS COMPUTER PROGRAM THAT COMES UP WITH THAT SCENARIO. >>DEE WILLIAMS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>DAVID HURLEY: MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: ARE YOUR ELECTIONS PARTISAN OR NONPARTISAN? >> NON. I SAY NON, BUT AS YOU THOUGH WITH THE ELECTION CHANGE, THERE ARE ALL KIND OF STRANGE RULES IF YOU END UP WITH A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE AND DON'T HAVE A CANDIDATE FROM ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER, IT CREATES THE SITUATION OF A NONPARTISAN THAT ANY PARTY CAN VOTE. EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY NOT HAVE A DEMOCRAT RUNNING OR REPUBLICAN RUNNING. THAT NEW SYSTEM HAS CHANGED THE CONCEPT OF PARTISAN VERSUS NONPARTISAN. OURS ARE PARTISAN. >>STEVE LaBOUR: ARE PARTISAN? >> RIGHT. >>GERALD WHITE: YOU WANT TO TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE AUDIT? HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT? >> I HAVEN'T SEEN WHAT YOUR MATERIAL IS, BUT I WILL BE GLAD TO SHARE WITH YOU BASICALLY HOW WE DO THAT. IN OUR CASE, WE DO -- WE HAVE TWO PRIMARY AUDIT FUNCTIONS. WE HAVE AN EXTERNAL AUDIT THAT'S A BID CONTRACT THAT WE BID EVERY FOUR YEARS AND THAT PROVIDES THE OVERALL FISCAL AUDIT THAT'S REQUIRED BY STATE STATUTES, NOT ONLY TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, BUT ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, THE COURT SYSTEM, ANYTHING THAT WE PROVIDE DOLLARS TO IS INCLUDED IN THAT ONE WRAP-UP AUDIT. IN ADDITION TO THAT, IN OUR CASE, THE INTERNAL AUDIT FUNCTION IS IS UNDER THE CLERK OF THE COURT. IT'S NOT UNDER ME AS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. THE CLERK OF THE COURT HAS A VERY LARGE INTERNAL AUDIT DIVISION, AND SHE AUDITS ALL THE OPERATIONS OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT, PROVIDES A DIRECT REPORT TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. WE DO THAT. IT'S A VERY WELL-RUN SYSTEM. A DRAFT REPORT WILL COME OUT. THAT COMES TO ME. I'LL SIT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF WHICH THAT AFFECTS. WE'LL MEET WITH THE AUDITORS. AND THEN WE'LL AGREE ON THOSE THINGS IN THE AUDIT REPORT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT ACTION NEEDS TO BE TAKEN, WHAT THAT ACTION IS. THAT THEN BECOMES A FINAL REPORT FILED WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THERE'S A SET SCHEDULE OF WHICH DEPARTMENTS ARE GOING TO BE DONE EACH YEAR, THAT ARE DEVELOPED EACH YEAR AS PART OF BUDGET. IN ADDITION TO THAT, OFTENTIMES WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT COMES UP -- I'LL REQUEST AN INTERNAL AUDIT BE DONE ON A PROCEDURE OR WHATEVER. OR THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT COMES UP THROUGH ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS OR THROUGH A CITIZEN'S INPUT, SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HEARD EARLIER FROM THE LADY FROM TEMPLE TERRACE. IT'S BEEN A GOOD PROCESS FOR US. AND THAT TIES IN WITH THE CLERK'S FUNCTIONS AS THE -- THE BCC'S FINANCE AND ACCOUNTING. IN OUR CASE THE CLERK IS NOT THE BUDGET OFFICER. I'M THE DESIGNATED BUDGET OFFICER BY STATUTE. I HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PREPARING THE ENTIRE BUDGET FOR COUNTY GOVERNMENT, WHICH INCLUDES NOT ONLY THE DEPARTMENTS DIRECTLY UNDER THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, BUT ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, ALL THE COURT SYSTEM. IN OUR CASE, THERE'S SOME 320 DIFFERENT AGENCIES THAT GET ROLLED IN TO MAKE UP THE COUNTY BUDGET. I MUST SUBMIT THAT TO THE BOARD BY JULY THE 15th -- I'M SORRY, JUNE THE 15th EACH YEAR AS A BALANCED BUDGET OR I GET TO SPEND TIME IN THE BRAND-NEW COUNTY JAIL. IT'S A VERY RIGID PROCESS IN OUR CHARTER. THE CLERK OF THE COURT, CONVERSELY THOUGH, IS THE AUDITOR AND THE FISCAL AGENT FOR THE BOARD. SO ALL THE MONEY, THE INVESTMENT PROGRAMS, ET CETERA, ARE UNDER THE CLERK BASED UPON A PROJECT -- I MEAN A PROGRAM APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THE CLERK DOES ALL THE POSTAUDIT AND PREAUDIT FOR NORMAL DAY-TO-DAY SYSTEMS. A GOOD SYSTEM. A GOOD CHECK AND BALANCE. THE ONLY WEAKNESS FROM AN INTERNAL AUDIT STANDPOINT, THE CLERK ONLY AUDITS THOSE DEPARTMENTS UNDER ME. SHE'S TAKEN THE POSITION THAT STATUTORILY THAT SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO THEREFORE WILL NOT AUDIT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SHERIFF, THE PROPERTY APPRAISER, THE TAX COLLECTOR, ET CETERA. SO THE COMMISSION'S INTERNAL AUDIT PROGRAM IS REALLY FOR THOSE DEPARTMENTS THAT THEY DIRECTLY SUPERVISE. >>GERALD WHITE: HOW WAS -- DO YOU HAVE LIKE AN ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY? >> NO. BASICALLY, OUR PROGRAMS ARE ALL DONE -- THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAS THAT SAME ROLE. WOE DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE -- LIKE YOU BASICALLY HAVE OVER HERE. OUR COMMISSION SITS WEARING A COUPLE OF OTHER HATS THOUGH. THEY DO SIT AS THE WATER AND NAVIGATION AUTHORITY, BECAUSE OF THE EXTENSIVE WATERFRONT AND ISSUES WITH DOCKAGE, ET CETERA. SO THE STATE HAS TRANSFERRED THE ISSUANCE OF DOCK PERMITS. THE POLICING AND CONTROL OF THE WATERWAYS SO THAT OUR BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SITS AS THE WATER NAV AUTHORITY. IN OUR CASE, THEY ALSO SIT AS AN EMS AUTHORITY. WE HAVE, BY REFERENDUM, A COUNTYWIDE EMS AUTHORITY, WHILE PINELLAS COUNTY PROVIDES ALL THE AMBULANCE SERVICE COUNTYWIDE, REGARDLESS WHETHER THE ISSUE IS IN THE CITY OR THE COUNTY. THAT CREATED A SEPARATE AUTHORITY. SO THEY SIT AS THE EMS AUTHORITY, THE WATER AND NAVIGATION AUTHORITY, AND THEY ALSO SIT AS THE SOLID WASTE AUTHORITY, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A FUNCTION UNDER THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT SINCE WE'RE DOCTOR -- THIS WAS CREATED BY REFERENDUM, THEY WEAR THAT HAT. AND WE ARE ALSO THE FINAL SIMILAR TO WHAT I BELIEVE THE ROLE YOUR COMMISSION TAKES ON RECOMMENDATIONS FROM YOUR ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMISSION, WE HAVE A SEPARATE PLANNING COUNCIL THAT IS MADE UP OF REPRESENTATIONS FROM ALL 24 CITIES AND THE BOARD. THEY BASICALLY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE COUNTYWIDE PLANNING AND ZONING, BUT THE COMMISSION IS THE FINAL IMPLEMENTER ON THAT. SO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SITS AS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY ON ALL ZONING AND LAND USE IN OUR COUNTY, WHETHER IT'S IN THE CITY OR THE COUNTY. >>GERALD WHITE: THE COUNTY COMMISSION IN YOUR COUNTY, ARE THEY CONSIDERED TO BE PART-TIME OR FULL-TIME POSITIONS? >> FULL-TIME. ALL OF MINE ARE FULL TIME. THAT'S BEEN PRETTY MUCH THE TREND, I WOULD SAY, FOR AT LEAST THE LAST 18 YEARS, WITH EXPANDED RESPONSIBILITIES. PRIOR TO THAT, YOU KNOW, IT HAD BEEN A QUASI FULL-TIME POSITION. BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, ALL -- THIS IS THEIR PREDOMINANT JOB IS THEIR COUNTY COMMISSION. >>GERALD WHITE: IS IT -- MY LAST QUESTION, MR. CHAIR. THE -- LIMITING THE DUTIES OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION, HAVE YOU EVER GIVEN THAT ANY THOUGHT IN YOUR DUTIES AS AN ELECTED OFFICIALS? >> WE ARE A STRONG ADMINISTRATIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. IN OUR CHARTER, AS AN EXAMPLE, IF ONE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS INTERFERED WITH ONE OF OUR DEPARTMENTS, I CAN ACTUALLY BRING CHARGES TO THEM. WE WERE THE FIRST ADMINISTRATOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. SO WE GO WAY BACK IN THE EARLY '60s AND WORKED THROUGH ALL THOSE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. WE ARE CONSIDERED A STRONG ADMINISTRATOR FORM. AS A RESULT OF THAT, ALL ACTIONS THE BOARD WANTS TO DO MUST COME TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THAT'S ONE OF THE OTHER AREAS TO BE VERY CANDID THAT HAVE CAUSED PROBLEMS FOR YOU. IN OUR CASE, OUR COMMISSIONERS HAVE A RECEPTIONIST OR SECRETARY THAT BOOKS APPOINTMENTS. THAT'S IT. THEY DO NOT HAVE A SEPARATE STAFF. THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE ANYONE EXCEPT AN APPOINTMENT SECRETARY, AND ANYTHING THEY WANT COMES TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH SEVEN MINI-ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTIONS MEDDLING IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT. THEY COME TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. >>DAVID HURLEY: DO YOU HAVE? >> MARY LOU KNOWS MOST OF THIS BETTER THAN I DO. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: MR. MARQUIS, AFTER YOU'RE GONE, YOU ARE RETIRING THIS YEAR AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A BIG VOID OVER THERE. I'VE KNOWN BECAUSE I HAVE KNOWN YOU A LONG TIME THAT SO MUCH OF THE VICTORIES OF PULLING EVERYTHING TOGETHER IS BECAUSE OF YOUR WILLINGNESS AND YOUR ABILITY TO DO IT. HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET YOUR CONSTITUTIONALS AND THE CITIES TO GIVE UP SOME AUTHORITIES TO MAKE SOME CONSOLIDATION OF SERVICES. WE DON'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT OVER ON THIS SIDE OF THE BAY. YOU HAVE A LOT OF CONSOLIDATION IN YOUR EMS AND A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT WE DON'T HAVE HERE. WE HAVE -- TAMPA HAS SOLID WASTE. WE HAVE SOLID WASTE. THEY HAVE FIRE RESCUE, EMS. WE HAVE THAT. DID THAT JUST HAPPEN GRADUALLY? >> YES. IT'S BEEN A -- WE'VE BEEN BLESSED WITH SOME REAL STABILITY. AND IN THE 30 YEARS, AS AN EXAMPLE, I'VE BEEN WITH THE COUNTY AND THE 23 I'VE WORKED WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, I HAVE ONLY WORKED FOR 23 DIFFERENT COMMISSIONERS. SO WE HAVEN'T HAD A LARGE QUICK TURNOVER IN THE ELECTED AREA. THAT HOLDS TRUE WITH OUR CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS ALSO. AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE HAVEN'T HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT RE-CREATION OF WHAT IS ADMINISTRATION, WHAT IS POLICY DIRECTION EVERY FEW YEARS THAT SO MANY GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES HAVE TO DO. THAT'S LET US APPROACH THESE ISSUES FROM A VERY STABLE ENVIRONMENT. AS A RESULT OF THAT, THE COUNTY HAS TENDED TO BE THE MORE STABLE AREA WITH THE CITIES HAVING SHORTER TERMS. MOST OF OUR CITIES HAVE TWO-YEAR TERMS, AS OPPOSED TO FOUR YEARS. AND MANY OF OUR CITIES ONLY ALLOW ONE -- BASICALLY TWO TERMS IN OFFICE. SO THE CITIES TEND TO TURN THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS OVER MORE QUICKER. THE COUNTY HAD THAT ROLE FROM THE STABILIZING UMBRELLA AGENCY, AND THAT'S LET US DEVELOP A LOT OF POLICY AND PROGRAMS THAT PROVIDE COUNTYWIDE SERVICES. MOST OF THOSE, VERY CANDIDLY FAILED THE FIRST TIME AROUND AUTOMATICALLY AND ECONOMICS HAVE SET IN AND WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP A LOT OF COUNTYWIDE PROGRAMS PURELY BASED ON ECONOMICS. WE HAVE, BY REFERENDUM, A SEPARATE MILLAGE FOR EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES. THAT IS A FUNCTION SPECIFICALLY SET ASIDE IN THE CHARTER FOR COUNTY GOVERNMENT. I CONTRACT THAT BACK OUT. I HAVE 19 SEPARATE CONTRACTS WITH THE CITIES TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE, BUT AT LEAST THE SERVICE ITSELF IS UNDER ONE ENTITY, ONE SET OF GUIDELINES, ONE SET OF PROGRAMS. BUT MAINLY, MARY LOU, IT'S JUST BEEN -- WE HAVE BEEN VERY BLESSED WITH HAVING A RELATIVELY STABLE POLITICAL STRUCTURE THAT'S BEEN EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE OVER ALL THE YEARS I HAVE BEEN THERE, AND THAT'S LET US PUT A LOT OF THESE PROGRAMS TOGETHER WITHOUT A LOT OF THE POLITICAL HYPE YOU GET INTO WHEN YOU START PLAYING THE TURF WARS AND THE OTHER PARANOIA THAT GOES IN IT. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: 22 YEARS, IF THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD DO. SIX YEARS IS THE REAL LIMIT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. GOOD LUCK IN YOUR RETIREMENT. I'M THROUGH. >> YOU ALL ARE LETTING ME OFF AWFULLY LIGHT HERE. >>STEVE LaBOUR: DO YOU HAVE TERM LIMITS? >> WE HAVE JUST GONE TO TERM LIMITS, NOT BY CHARTER BUT IN ESSENCE BY STATE. THERE WAS A CHALLENGE IN OUR COUNTY THAT CHALLENGED THE WHOLE ISSUE OF TERM LIMITS. THAT'S GONE THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM. WE WILL HAVE TERM LIMITS ON OUR BOARD MEMBERS, BUT NOT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. >>STEVE LaBOUR: OKAY. THANK YOU. >> THOSE WILL BE TWO CONSECUTIVE -- EIGHT YEARS MAX ON THAT. >>JAN SMITH: MS. WALDRON >>ARLENE WALDRON: MR. MARQUIS, WHO HIRES AND MANAGES THE EXTERNAL AUDITS. >> THEY ARE HIRED BY THE CLERK OF THE COURT, EXTERNAL AUDITORS DONE BY BID, AND THAT'S THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THE INTERNAL IS HIRED BY THE CLERK OF THE COURT. AND IT'S ACTUALLY A DIVISION OF THE CLERK. BUT WE BID OUR EXTERNAL AUDITING OUT EVERY FOUR YEARS. >>JAN SMITH: ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. HURLEY. >> DAVID. >>DAVID HURLEY: I'VE BEEN WAITING ON YOU. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT HAVING WORKED IN PINELLAS COUNTY BEFORE I STARTED MY BUSINESS HERE AND GOT TO WATCH YOU UP CLOSE, A LOT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THERE IS BECAUSE YOU KNEW YOUR JOB. YOU MADE DECISIONS AND MOVED ON. I ADMIRED THAT ABOUT YOU. YOU WOULD MAKE A DECISION AND IF IT WAS THE WRONG DECISION, YOU COULD CHANGE IT LATER BUT YOU WERE GOING TO DO SOMETHING AND GET IT GOING. I THINK THAT SAVED A LOT FOR PINELLAS COUNTY. THEY ARE GOING TO MISS YOU WHEN YOU'RE OUT OF THERE. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >>DAVID HURLEY: ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ABOUT THE QUALIFICATIONS, AND OUR CHARTER REQUIRES US TO HIRE AN ADMINISTRATOR WITH A MASTER'S DEGREE IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION. SOME OF US FEEL THAT HAS MADE A LITTLE BIT OF A NARROWING EFFECT ON THE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO HIRE FOR THAT POSITION. COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT, SIR? >> WELL, IF THAT WERE THE CASE IN PINELLAS, I WOULD NOT BE THE ADMINISTRATOR, BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE A MASTERS IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION. MY MASTER'S IS IN URBAN AND CITY PLANNING. I CAME IN THROUGH THE JOB IN THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE OF THE HOUSE. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT REQUIREMENT. IN OUR CHARTER, THE HIRING OF THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR IS TOTALLY A DECISION THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. AND IT'S SILENT ON ANY OF THOSE QUALIFICATIONS. IT GIVES THEM TOTAL FLEXIBILITY. >>DAVID HURLEY: HAS THERE ANY -- YOU MENTIONED ALL THE AUDITS, THE INTERNAL AUDITS, AND THE AUDITS YOU GET FROM THE OUTSIDE, IS THERE ANYTHING LIKE A PERFORMANCE AUDIT THAT'S LOOKING AT THE NUMBER OF STEPS YOU TAKE TO DO THE THINGS -- HOW THE PEOPLE ARE PROVIDING A SERVICE VERSUS THE DOLLARS THEY ARE SPENDING TO DO THAT? >> WE DO THAT BOTH THROUGH THE INTERNAL AUDIT, AS I THINK YOU HEARD BY THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER. A LOT OF THOSE ARE DONE BASED UPON MY DIRECTION. ONE OF THE MOST RECENT ONES WE DID, AS AN EXAMPLE, WAS AN INTERNAL AUDIT LOOKING AT THE WHOLE EFFICIENCY OF THE ONE-STOP PERMITTING SYSTEM. AND I BROUGHT IN A SERIES OF OUTSIDE EFFICIENCY TYPE EXPERTS TO REVIEW THAT SCENARIO. THAT WILL OCCUR EITHER AT MY -- AS ADMINISTRATOR MY REQUEST OR WE DO THAT AUTOMATICALLY WITH OUR INTERNAL AUDITS AS WE DO OUR INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENT REVIEWS. OFTENTIMES IT WILL COME FROM A CITIZEN BOARD LIKE THIS WHO IS INTERESTED IN HAVING US LOOK AT -- USUALLY A PRIVATIZATION ISSUE. >>DAVID HURLEY: YOU MENTIONED YOUR UNIFIED PERSONNEL SYSTEM AND YOUR UNIFIED DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A LOT OF US IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY HAVE -- BEEN BOTHERSOME TO US IS EVERY DEPARTMENT, OR EVERY DIFFERENT GROUP WE GO TO HAS A DIFFERENT COMPUTER SYSTEM. AND WE EVEN HAVE DIFFERENT TYPE GIS SYSTEMS USED IN THIS COUNTY. >> THAT'S HOW WE HAVE AVOIDED THAT. >>DAVID HURLEY: HOW DID YOU GET THAT THROUGH? BECAUSE IT SEEMS -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S PEOPLE GETTING THEIR FIEFDOM GOING OR WHAT. THEY DON'T WANT TO JOIN IN WITH OTHERS TO -- >> WE HAVE ACTUALLY -- PRIOR TO THE DAYS WHEN COUNTIES COULD BECOME CHARTER COUNTIES, WE ACTUALLY DID THAT AS A SPECIAL STATE ACT. SO THE COUNTY WAS ABLE TO GET A STATE ACT THAT SET UP OUR UNIFIED PERSONNEL SYSTEM AND OUR UNIFIED DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM. WHEN WE BECAME A CHARTER COUNTY, THOSE ROLLED INTO THE CHARTER ITSELF. BUT IT'S -- I WILL TELL YOU THAT IT HAS SAVED US -- I CAN'T -- I MEAN, IT LITERALLY WILL BE IN THE MAGNITUDE OF TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF US NOT HAVING TO COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER ON WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE INFORMATION BASE FOR THE COUNTY. WE HAVE A SINGLE GIS SYSTEM, AS AN EXAMPLE, AS A JOINT PROJECT BETWEEN MY PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND THE PROPERTY APPRAISER. THE PROPERTY APPRAISER MAINTAINS THE BASE DATA, AND MY PLANNING DEPARTMENT PUTS 320 LAYERS OF DATA ON TOP OF THAT THAT LET'S YOU PULL OUT OF THE GIS SYSTEM ALMOST ANYTHING YOU WANT AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE. IT'S A GREAT PARTNERSHIP. >>DAVID HURLEY: I AGREE WITH THAT. >>JAN SMITH: FINALLY GOT A CHANCE TO TALK, HUH? >>DAVID HURLEY: YEAH. >>JAN SMITH: I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT. THE ACTUAL WORDING OF OUR CHARTER SAYS THAT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR SHALL BE A FULL-TIME OFFICER WHO HOLDS A MASTER'S DEGREE IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION, MANAGEMENT, OR A RELATED FIELD, IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD WORK IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. >> OH, GOOD. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: I WANTED TO ASK -- WERE THE QUESTIONS -- MORE QUESTIONS OVER HERE? I'M SORRY. >>MIKE BEDKE: I'VE GOT ONE. >>JAN SMITH: GO AHEAD MR. BEDKE. >> WITH RESPECTS TO YOUR INTERNAL VERSUS THE EXTERNAL, DO YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL PERFORMING THAT FUNCTION BE A CPA OR, IN YOUR TERMINOLOGY, COULD IT BE AN EFFICIENCY EXPERT THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO EITHER HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO HIRE OR, IN YOUR INSTANCE, I GUESS, THE CLERK OF THE COURT TO HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY? >> IT'S THE MIDDLE ONE. I THINK IT'S CRITICAL THAT IT BE SOMEONE WHO IS AN EXPERT IN WHAT IT IS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. THAT MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE A CPA. LET ME GIVE YOU A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. WE PREVIOUSLY HAD OUR SEWER AND WATER AND SOLID WASTE FUNCTIONS WERE EACH, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE ENTERPRISE FUNDS, THEY DO NOT CONTRIBUTE ONE DIME TO THE GENERAL OPERATION OF THE COUNTY, NOR DO THEY RECEIVE ANY TAX DOLLARS. EACH ONE OF THEM WAS OPERATED INDEPENDENTLY AS WE HAD THREE INDEPENDENT BUSINESSES. I'VE FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT WE COULD HAVE SOME HUGE ECONOMY OF SCALES OF COMBINING THOSE INTO A SINGLE UTILITY DEPARTMENT, SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE HERE. SO WE ACTUALLY WENT AND HIRED THE -- AN ENGLISH FIRM THAT IS THE LARGEST PROVIDER OF PRIVATIZATION OF UTILITIES, SEWER, WATER, ET CETERA, IN THE WORLD. WE ACTUALLY HIRED THEM TO, IN ESSENCE, OFFER PINELLAS COUNTY HOW WOULD THEY PRIVATIZE ALL OF OUR FUNCTIONS OF SOLID WASTE, WATER, AND SEWER. AND WE DID THAT UNDER OUR BEST BUSINESS PRACTICE PROGRAM WHICH SINCE THEN HAS WON SOME EXTENSIVE NATIONAL ACCLAIM. WE ACTUALLY HAD THEM COME IN AND EVALUATE EVERYTHING WE DID IN THOSE THREE FUNCTIONAL AREAS AND GIVE US A PROPOSAL AS IF THEY WERE GOING TO BID TO DO THAT AS A PRIVATIZATION COMPANY. WE THEN TOOK THE RESULTS OF THAT AND IMPLEMENTED IT OURSELVES JUST AS WE HAD PRIVATIZED THOSE THREE UTILITIES. S THAT A A CASE WHERE IT WAS NOT A CPA-DRIVEN AUDIT AT ALL. WE HAVE OTHER EXAMPLES WHERE THE PERFORMANCE FUNCTION WOULD BE DONE THROUGH A CPA. IF I WAS EVALUATING PROCESS AND PROCEDURES AS AN EXAMPLE IN OUR EMS BILLING SYSTEM, WHICH IS ALMOST ALL FINANCIAL, FISCAL DRIVEN. YOU REALLY NEED THAT FLEXIBILITY TO BRING IN THE EXPERT THAT YOU NEED FOR THE JOB THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. >>MIKE BEDKE: THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. MARQUIS, I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING LATE. I WAS HOPEFUL TO BE HERE IN TIME TO HEAR -- >> I JUST BARELY BEAT YOU. >>JAN SMITH: I -- IT SEEMS TO ME FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM YOU SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE THAT YOU DO FUNCTIONS OTHER THAN AUDITS AS IN PERFORMANCE AUDITS. YOU DO EFFICIENCY STUDIES. >> SURE. >>JAN SMITH: AND IN MY OPINION, IT WOULD BE TO OUR BENEFIT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND HIRE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF GOVERNMENT TO BE INDEPENDENT. HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU FEEL IT IS TO HIRE INDEPENDENT PEOPLE OTHER THAN PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF GOVERNMENT TO DO THOSE KINDS OF JOBS? >> I THINK IT'S CRITICAL. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT TO -- YOU'VE GOT TO BRING THE EXPERTISE THAT YOU NEED FOR THE TASK THAT'S BEFORE YOU. AND I WOULD BE VERY UPSET IF I HAD ANY SHACKLES OR CONSTRAINTS THAT -- SHACKLES OR CONSTRAINTS THAT PREVENTED ME FROM BEING ABLE TO DO THAT. I MAY BE MISSING THE ISSUE THAT YOU TRYING TO GET TO HERE. >>JAN SMITH: IF YOU HAD AN APPOINTED AUDITOR UNDER THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND HIS ASSIGNMENT WAS TO DO THOSE TYPES OF AUDITS, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR YOU AS A PROFESSIONAL ADMINISTRATOR THEN TO WORK WITH THAT? >> OH, NO. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING AT ALL. THAT'S THE SITUATION WE HAVE. THE CLERK OF THE COURT DOES ALL THE INTERNAL AUDITS OF ALL MY DEPARTMENTS, WHICH I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH. THAT'S A GOOD CHECKS AND BALANCE. BUT THAT IS PREDOMINANTLY A FISCAL AUDIT. >>JAN SMITH: AND THAT'S STATE -- BY STATE LAW, ISN'T IT? BECAUSE THE COUNTY -- >> THAT'S BASICALLY SET UP IN OUR CHARTER. THE COMMISSION COULD CHOOSE TO HAVE AN INTERNAL AUDIT DIVISION WORKING DIRECTLY FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. I WOULD NOT THINK IT SHOULD BE UNDER ME AS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. BUT THE COMMISSION COULD CHOOSE TO HAVE ITS OWN INTERNAL AUDIT DIVISION. THAT WOULD BE A DUPLICATION WE DON'T NEED. SO WE PUT THAT UNDER THE CLERK AS OUR FINANCE AND FISCAL AGENT. BUT ON TOP OF THAT, I'VE GOT THE FLEXIBILITY AS THE MANAGER ANY TIME WE WANT TO DO -- ANY TIME I WANT TO DO A DETAILED MANAGEMENT-TYPE AUDIT TO BASICALLY RETAIN -- EXCUSE ME -- RETAIN CONSULTANTS AND/OR AUDITORS TO DO THAT. >>JAN SMITH: DO YOU DO THAT WITH THE APPROVAL OF YOUR BOARD? >> DEPENDS -- I HAVE AUTHORITY UP TO $25,000 TO RETAIN ANYONE RELATIVE TO CONSULTANT DELIVERY. IF IT'S A SMALL QUICK AUDIT, I MAY AUTHORIZE THAT MYSELF. IF IT IS ANYTHING OVER THAT, IT WILL GO TO THE BOARD. IT IS NOT A SYSTEM WE HAVE HAD ANY PROBLEM WITH AT ALL BETWEEN MYSELF AND THE CLERK OF THE COURT, AS AN EXAMPLE. >>JAN SMITH: MS. TUTTLE. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: ONE MORE QUESTION. WHEN YOU HAD YOUR AUDITS DONE, HAVE THEY PRIMARILY BEEN TO SAVE MONEY, OR TO DO A BETTER JOB IN DELIVERING SERVICES? >> BOTH. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: BOTH? >> BOTH. IN SOME CASES THEY HAVE RESULTED, AS AN EXAMPLE THAT WE GO TO TOTAL PRIVATIZATION N. OTHER CASES, IT HAS BEEN A RECOMMENDATION THAT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING NOT PRACTICAL UNDER A PRIVATIZATION SCENARIO, BUT WE NEED TO COMBINE THIS FUNCTION WITH ANOTHER ONE TO DO IT WITH LESS PEOPLE, LESS DOLLARS. I'VE SEEN THEM DO THE ENTIRE RANGE WITH PERFORMANCE AUDITS. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: DO THEY EVER RECOMMEND THAT YOU HIRE MORE PEOPLE TO DO A BETTER JOB? >> I HAVEN'T SEEN ONE OF THOSE YET. INVARIABLY, THEY COME BACK TO US THAT WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO SOME CONSOLIDATION OR NO CHANGE. BASICALLY YOU ARE DOING IT THE BEST YOU CAN. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? A COMMENT WAS MADE EARLIER ABOUT THE -- I THINK MS. TUTTLE, IT CAME FROM ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS, ABOUT THE INEFFICIENCY OR EFFICIENCY OF CONSOLIDATING SERVICES. I DO KNOW IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, OUR PARKS DEPARTMENT WORKS WELL WITH THE CITY PARKS DEPARTMENT AND THE ONE IN TEMPLE TERRACE. BUT I RECALL SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WENT OUT TO BID FOR THE RESOURCE RECOVERY PLANT, THEY ACTUALLY INVITED THE CITY OF TAMPA TO PARTICIPATE, AND THEY CHOSE NOT TO. I'M WONDERING IF THE REASON YOU SEE YOUR MUNICIPALITIES MEETING BEING MORE TO JOIN THE COUNTY IN PROVIDING THESE SERVICES IS THAT INDIVIDUALLY FOR THE MUNICIPALITIES IT WOULD BE COST PROHIBITIVE. IT ALLOWS THEM TO SPREAD THE COST OVER GREATER NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT PROVIDE THE SERVICE. >> THAT'S PART OF IT. BUT WHEN WE WENT TO OUR RESOURCE ENERGY FACILITY, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THE CITY OF ST. PETERSBURG OPERATED AN INDEPENDENT LANDFILL OPERATION. WE OPERATED AN INDEPENDENT LANDFILL OPERATION. LARGO OPERATED ONE; CLEARWATER OPERATED ONE. WHEN WE MADE THAT DECISION TO BASICALLY GO AWAY FROM LANDFILLS AND GO TO THE RESOURCE ENERGY, WE HAD FOUR OF OUR KEY CITIES THAT WERE ACTUALLY OPERATING LANDFILLS. AGAIN, IN OUR CASE, THIS INITIALLY STARTED PRIOR TO OUR CHARTER BEING APPROVED, SO WE WERE ABLE TO GET STATE LEGISLATION THAT CREATED A COUNTY-WIDE RESOURCED ENERGY ENTITY, WHICH WAS THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. AND THEN -- SO WE WERE ABLE TO PUT IT OUT TO A BID WHERE WE WEREN'T COMPETING AMONG OURSELVES. IN FACT, IT HAS A VERY STRONG FLOW CHART -- FLOW CONTROL PORTION OF THAT STATE STATUTE THAT MANDATES ALL THE CITIES MUST DELIVER TO US THEIR GARBAGE -- OR THEIR TRASH. IT CAN'T EVEN GO OUT OF THE COUNTY. SO WE HAD A VERY TIGHT FLOW CONTROL, WHICH LET US GET SOME EXTREMELY GOOD BIDS. WE OPENED OUR PLANT ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO. IT HAS EXPANDED THREE TIMES. WE OPENED IT UP AT $34 A TON. TODAY IT IS AT $34 A TON. WE NEVER HAD A PRICE INCREASE. BECAUSE OF THAT ECONOMY OF SCALE WITH, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CONTROL. >>JAN SMITH: IF THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS, WE WOULD LIKE FOR MR. MARQUIS TO GET ACROSS THE BAY. WE THANK YOU FOR COMING. I KNOW THIS BOARD WAS ANXIOUS TO HEAR FROM -- >> I NOTICE FROM YOUR AGENDA, YOU HAVE AN AWESOME SET OF DELIBERATIONS. AND I DON'T ENVY YOU IN YOUR DELIBERATION OF THAT. WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO GET AN INDEPENDENT LOOK OF HOW WE PROVIDE SERVICE DELIVERY UNDER OUR CHARTER FORMS, EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I COMMEND YOU FOR YOUR TIME ON THAT. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WHILE WE HAVE TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE SOME OF THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FORWARD. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IF THEY HAVE A REPORT THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE. THERE'S NOTHING? MR. TINKLER, YOU HAVE NOTHING. >>GERALD WHITE: I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK MR. TINKLER -- ATTORNEY TINKLER FOR THE WORK THAT HE DID IN THE REPORT ON THE GUBERNATORIAL POWER OF APPOINTMENT. I APPRECIATE THAT REPORT. IT WAS VERY THOROUGH. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. WHITE. THANK YOU, MR. TINKLER. MS. MERRITT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE US YOUR RECENT REPORT. AND DID YOU BRING A BUDGET REPORT WITH YOU? >>BARBARA MERRITT: MY REPORT IS SHORT BECAUSE I RAN OUT OF TIME. THE BUDGET IS THERE. WE'VE SPENT APPROXIMATELY $12,000 YEAR-TO-DATE. I HAVE APPROXIMATELY $188 WORTH OF COPYING THAT IS NOT ON THAT BUDGET. I'M ESTIMATING THAT AT 2 .SOMETHING CENTS A COPY. THE MINUTES WILL BE AT THE NEXT MEETING FOR APPROVAL. OUR NEXT MEETING WILL BE AUGUST 10th, AND OUR CONFIRMED SPEAKERS ARE SENATOR HARGRETT, REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY, AND REPRESENTATIVE MILLER. WE ALSO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING SCHEDULED FOR 8 P.M. THAT EVENING. AND A COUPLE OF THE MEMBERS HAVE ASKED ME ABOUT THE TRAVEL POLICY, AND THE REIMBURSEMENTMENT. SO THERE IS EXPLANATION OF THE REIMBURSEMENT AND TRAVEL POLICY THERE WITH ALL THE FORMS THAT YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS TO PLEASE CALL ME OR MR. TINKLER. I PREFER YOU CALL KEN, BUT I'LL WORK WITH YOU BECAUSE I GET SOME OF THE FORMS I'M NOT VERY FAMILIAR WITH. AND PARKING TICKETS. I SPOKE TO THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE GARAGE. EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT THERE WHEN YOU LEAVE, YOU HAVE TO TICKET. THEY STILL HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THOSE TICKETS. SO IF YOU WOULD SIGN THE BACK OF THEM AND MAKE SURE YOU GET THEM TO ME, I'LL MAKE SURE THAT MR. KALANEY GETS THEM BACK. WHEN HE IS AUDITED BY THE AUDITOR, HE HAS TO ACCOUNT BY THE TICKETS. >> THERE IS A BOX THERE TOO IF YOU WANT TO DROP THEM IN THE BOX. BUT IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER, GET THEM BACK TO ME. AND MR. WHITE HAD ASKED ABOUT THE $50,000 FOR THE BUDGET APPROPRIATION. I HAVE A COPY OF AN E-MAIL THAT WAS SEPTEMBER TO ME FROM ERIC JOHNSON IN THERE AT $50,000 WAS THE HISTORIC FUNDING LEVEL. AND IF YOU THINK THAT WE NEED TO, AS A BOARD, YOU NEED TO MAKE A DECISION IF YOU THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, WE NEED TO PREPARE THAT FOR WHATEVER YOU THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED. AND THAT'S ABOUT IT FOR THIS EVENING. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF MS. MERRITT? THANK YOU. >>BARBARA MERRITT: ONE THING ON THE BUDGET REPORT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO REPORT THAT MS. SMITH ASKED ME TO BREAK IT OUT SEPARATELY SO YOU KNOW WHAT THE COSTS WERE THE ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS TONIGHT. I HAVE THAT AS A SEPARATE ITEM THERE SO YOU KNOW. IT WAS $1145 JUST TO DO OUR ADVERTIZING. AND I DID THE POSTCARDS AND THE POSTAGE THERE. >>DAVID HURLEY: WILL THAT BE A RECURRING CHARGE. WILL WE WILL HAVE TO DO THAT FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING IN TWO WEEKS? >>BARBARA MERRITT: NO. IT IS FOR BOTH PUBLIC HEARINGS. SHOULD WE DO ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING. IT WILL BE APPROXIMATELY THAT MUCH. THE NEWSPAPER RATES GO UP AND DOWN DEPENDING THE SIZE OF THE AD. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE BUDGET? I THINK WE ARE IN GOOD SHAPE, MS. MERRITT. THANK YOU. I ANTICIPATED THAT YOU ALL WOULD BE TALKING TO MS. BARFORD AND MR. MARQUIS FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. YOU SORT OF SURPRISED ME THIS EVENING. SO I THINK WE, HAVING CONCLUDED 9 AND 10, WE'LL JUST PICK UP ON SOME BOARD DISCUSSION. I NEED TO ASK -- I ASSUME THAT YOU DID THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND -- DID ANYBODY SPEAK AT THE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WANTED THEIR COMMENTS TO GO AS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING? >>DAVID HURLEY: NO. THE ONLY PERSON WHO SPOKE AS PUBLIC COMMENT WAS MS. LAYNE WHO HAD AN EXCELLENT SUGGESTION THAT WE CLOSE OUR MEETINGS NO LATER THAN 10:00 BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE END OF THE MEETING TO DO THAT. >>JAN SMITH: ACTUALLY I THOUGHT AT THE BEGINNING THAT WE DISCUSSED TRYING TO END AT 9. >>DAVID HURLEY: 9 WAS THE GOAL. >>JAN SMITH: THAT IT WAS PRETTY MUCH OUR INTENT. I THINK THAT ONE LATE MEETING -- WE HAD TWO LATE MEETINGS THAT WENT LATE BECAUSE WE HAD LATE STARTS. BOTH TIME CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND OUR CONTROL. SO WHILE I'M IN TOTAL AGREEMENT THAT I DON'T LIKE BEING HERE AT 10:00, I THINK WE SHOULD STILL AIM FOR 9:00 AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. >>DAVID HURLEY: MY WIFE ALMOST PAID THE RANSOM THAT NIGHT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I HAVE A QUESTION RELATING TO ONE OF OUR SPEAKERS. MR. HOSLER WAS HERE TO ADDRESS US ON THE REAPPORTIONMENT OF THE CHARTER OF 120 DAYS. I JUST HAVE A QUESTION OF OUR LEGAL TEAM HERE. I'M JUST CURIOUS. SINCE MR. HOSLER PRETTY MUCH PUBLICLY SAID WE ARE NOT MEETING THAT, THAT PROVISION, HOW DO -- HOW DOES -- HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THAT? AND DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD TONIGHT AS TO HOW TO FIX IT? >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: YES, FOR THE RECORD, MARY HELEN CAMPBELL WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. I WAS NOT WITH THE OFFICE IN 1990 -- OR '91 WHEN THEY WENT THROUGH THEIR REAPPORTIONMENT AT THAT POINT IN TIME. I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. WHEN YOU READ THE LANGUAGE THAT SAYS, WITHIN 21 DAYS AFTER CERTIFICATION OF THE FEDERAL CENSUS, HE INTERPRETS THAT, MR. HOSLER SEES THAT AS WHEN THE PRESIDENT GETS THE CERTAIN SET OF NUMBERS. IT CAN ALSO BE INTERPRETED AS TO WHEN THE COUNTY GETS THEIR NUMBERS. IT IS NOT SO SPECIFIC IN THERE. AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A WAY TO SAVE -- TO AVOID COMING TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE HAVE DONE SOMETHING IMPROPER. CERTAINLY IF WE DON'T HAVE THE DATA WITHIN 120 DAYS OF A POINT, THERE IS NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO, AND SO I THINK JUDICIALLY, IT WOULD BE INTERPRETED TO A REASONABLE RESULT. BUT I WOULD ALSO ADD, THERE IS CERTAINLY NO HARM IN CLARIFYING THE LANGUAGE SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE SOME KIND OF CHALLENGE TO THE DISTRICT LINES THAT WE'RE DRAWING BASED ON THE WORDING OF THE CHARTER. >>STEVE LaBOUR: WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD MOVE IF YOU TAKE THE LANGUAGE THAT HE SUPPLIED -- >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: CERTAINLY. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IF YOU ALL COME BACK WITH A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE US OPTIONS. >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: WITH PROPOSED LANGUAGE. >>STEVE LaBOUR: DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BY THE NEXT MEETING. >>DAVID HURLEY: I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IT A MONTH FROM NOW. >>JAN SMITH: A MOTION BY MR. LaBOUR AND A SECOND BY MR. HURLEY TO HAVE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY REVIEW THE SECTION ON REAPPORTIONMENT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE. ANYONE OPPOSED, SAME SIGN. THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE THAT. >>JAN SMITH: WE HAD TRIED TO BEGIN AT THE LAST MEETING TO DISCUSS HOW WE WANTED TO PROCEED WITH OTHER ISSUES THAT BOARD MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT ARE IN THE CHARTER. I THINK YOU ALL HAD THOSE BLUE SHEETS AND YOU SAW HOW THE ISSUES RANKED. PREVIOUSLY, WE HAD ALSO DISCUSSED AND MS. WILLIAMS COMMENTED ON GOING THROUGH EACH SECTION AND SAYING EITHER, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS OKAY OR LET'S HOLD IT BACK OR LET'S MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE. AND I PERSONALLY THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT WAY OF APPROACHING IT. AND THAT WILL GIVE US THE ONES THAT WE WANTED TO HOLD BACK. SO REMEMBERING THE WISE COUNCIL OF NOT TO PUT -- NOT TO HAVE LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF THINGS ON THE BALLOT, TO BE JUDICIOUS IN WHAT WE DO PROPOSE. WOULD YOU ALL TAKE A MOMENT TO READ YOUR PREAMBLE AND TELL ME IF YOU HAVE ANY DIFFICULTIES WITH THE PREAMBLE OF OUR CHARTER? >>JAN SMITH: AS YOU'LL NOTICE, THAT'S THE PHRASEOLOGY AS MOST OF ALL OF THIS IS FROM THE VERY FIRST CHARTER REVIEW BOARD AND WHY IT IS PHRASED THE WAY IT IS. I DON'T BELIEVE OUR INTENT HAS CHANGED. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENT THEY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE? >>DAVID HURLEY: I THINK THE ONLY COMMENT IS WE ALREADY HAVE THAT FORM OF GOVERNMENT AT THIS TIME. SO THERE'S NOT ANY REASON FOR US -- 4. >>KEVIN AMBLER: IF THERE ARE TECHNICAL DIRECTION -- CORRECTIONS TO CHANGE IN THE CHARTER. FOR EXAMPLE, THE WAY IT WAS WORDED AT THAT TIME WHICH MAY HAVE TO BE TWEAKED BECAUSE WE ARE NOW LOOKING AT IT IN RETROSPECT, THAT WILL STILL HAVE TO BE A CHARTER CHANGE. >>KEVIN AMBLER: DELETING THE WORD "A NEW FORM OF GOVERNMENT" TO A NEW GOVERNMENT. PICK YOUR BATTLES WISELY. >>JAN SMITH: THE OTHER THING THAT'S INTERESTING IN THE CHARTER, I THINK PARTICULARLY AS IT DEALS WITH THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, IT PRESUMES A "HE" AS CHAIR, IF I RECALL, MY PERSONAL OPINION IS IT MIGHT BE WELL ENOUGH TO LEAVE THAT ALONE AS THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES THAT I THINK ARE CERTAINLY MORE RELEVANT. THE CHARTER COULD BE MADE GENDER NONSPECIFIC, BUT THAT WILL ALSO REQUIRE A CHARTER CHANGE. MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE LATIN MANNUS STANDS FOR MANKIND AND THAT WHERE IT CAME FROM ORIGINALLY AND ONLY IN OUR POLITICALLY CORRECT SOCIETY THAT HAS BECOME A PROBLEM. >>JAN SMITH: FOR MANY YEARS, WOMEN WEREN'T ALLOWED THE RIGHT TO VOTE AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO BE INCLUDED. >>DAVID HURLEY: COULDN'T OWN LAND. COULDN'T PLAY IN ORCHESTRAS IN EUROPE. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I HAVE A QUESTION THAT KIND OF FLOWS OUT OF THE NEXT SECTION ON CHARTER COUNTY. AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GERMANE AT THIS TIME TO BRING IT UP, BUT IT KIND OF FLOWS INTO THIS NEXT SECTION OF CHARTER COUNTIES, ITS BOUNDARIES AS ARE PROVIDED BY LAW. I'M CURIOUS WHEN THE NEW TAMPA AREA WAS ALL WITHIN UNINCORPORATED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE CITY CAME ALONG AND SAID WE'RE ANNEXING THIS. HOW DOES. AN ANNEXATION PLAY INTO OUR CHARTER. DOES IT HAVE TO BE RATIFIED AND APPROVED BY THE COUNTY? IF IT CHANGES OUR BOUNDARIES AS PROVIDED BY LAW, DOES OUR CHARTER PLAY INTO THAT OR DOES IT JUST DO IT? >>JAN SMITH: TECHNICALLY DOESN'T CHANGE THE OUTER BOUNDARIES OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. IT REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF AREA THAT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IS RESPONSIBLE TO PROVIDE SERVICES FOR, AN INCREASES THE CITIES. THE WAY IT ALMOST ALWAYS COMES ABOUT IS A LANDOWNER THAT WANTS TO DEVELOP IN AN AREA, AND THE CITY HAS VOLUNTEERED TO PROVIDE SERVICES, THE LANDOWNER REQUESTS TO BE ANNEXED INTO THE CITY. AND MANY TIMES IT HAPPENS BECAUSE AS YOU LOOK OUT INTO THE NEW TAMPA AREA, THE COUNTY, EVEN THOUGH THEY APPROVED MANY MUCH THE DEVELOPMENTS OUT THERE UNDER AN OLD DRI, AND IT WAS PART OF THE CITY AT THAT TIME, THERE WERE CERTAIN SERVICES THAT, AS THEY EXPANDED, THAT THE CITY PROVIDED. AND SO WHEN LANDOWNERS CAME AND ASKED THE CITY TO ANNEX, IT WAS DONE IN AN EFFORT TO PROVIDE SERVICES SO THAT NEW DEVELOPMENT COULD MOVE FORWARD. MARY HELEN, PERHAPS WOULD YOU LIKE TO ELABORATE, MS. CAMPBELL, ON THAT ISSUE, THANK YOU. >>DAVID HURLEY: TALKING ABOUT THOSE SERVICES, AT THE TIME THEY WERE SO PREVALENT, NEW TAMPA, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY DID NOT HAVE FACILITIES FOR SEWER AND WATER. AND CITY OF TAMPA WAS PROVIDING A LOT OF IT, STILL IS. >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: BASICALLY VIS-A-VIS THE CHARTER AND THE LANGUAGE YOU WERE READING, THE MUNICIPALITIES HAVE THE OPTION IN A DIFFERENT SECTION TO -- AND THE MAIN PLAY BETWEEN THE CITIES AND THE COUNTY UNDER THE CHARTER, IF THE COUNTY PASSES AN ORDINANCE THAT THE CITY DOES NOT LIKE, THEY CAN PASS A CONFLICTING ORDER AND BASICALLY OPT OUT OF IT. OTHER THAN THAT, IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE BOUNDARIES OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND AS THE CHAIR MENTIONED, WOULD SIMPLY DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF UNINCORPORATED AND INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF LAND THAT'S IN THE CITY. >>KEVIN AMBLER: THAT ANSWERS THAT, THANKS. >>JAN SMITH: SO THE SECTION UNDER "CREATION," OR CREATION DIDN'T REALLY CHANGE? I THINK THAT ONE WE CAN PASS BY. THE NEXT ONE "POWER," SECTION 2.01, IS VERY SIMILAR. IF YOU ALL WOULDN'T MIND LOOKING AT THAT. >>KEVIN AMBLER: IF I -- I'M SORRY JUST COMING BACK FOR A SECOND. IF WE'RE GOING UNDER ORDER, UNDER 1.02, IF I READ THIS CORRECT, NOTHING IN THE CHARTER THE WAY IT IS PRESENTLY WORDED ALLOWS THE THINGS THAT WE DO UNDER THE CHARTER TO AFFECT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. >>JAN SMITH: NOT NOW, BUT WE CAN CHANGE THAT LATER WHICH IN THIS CASE WOULD CHANGE THAT. >>KEVIN AMBLER: FOR EXAMPLE, I WOULD LIKE TO BRING THIS UP IN CONNECTION WITH OUR PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. I UNDERSTAND THAT LESS THAN HALF OF OUR BUDGET IS UNDER THE CHARTER, MEANING THE BOCC DIRECTLY. THE OTHER HALF REALLY FALLS UNDER -- THE OTHER HALF OF THE BUDGET THAT THE BOCC OVERSEES, IT REALLY COMES UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE CONSTITUTIONALS AND OUR PERFORMANCE AUDITOR, IF HE WERE OPERATING UNDER CHARTER DELEGATED AUTHORITY, WOULDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO GO IN AND AUDIT THE CONSTITUTIONALS. IF WE WANTED TO CHANGE THAT, WE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE TO SPECIFY THAT NOT ONLY IN OUR PROPOSED PLAN FOR PERFORMANCE AUDITOR, BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED HERE IN SECTION 1.02? >>JAN SMITH: YES. >>KEVIN AMBLER: THAT THE CONSTITUTIONALS WOULD BE SUBJECTED TO THE CHARTER? >>JAN SMITH: YEAH. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO, AND IT'S IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION, AND LET'S SO IF I CAN FIND IT QUICKLY FOR YOU, IT ALLOWS UNDER ARTICLE VIII, LOCAL GOVERNMENT -- -- IT SAYS COUNTY OFFICERS BEING CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. ALSO, IT SAYS EXCEPT WHEN PROVIDED BY COUNTY CHARTER SPECIAL OR APPROVED BY VOTE OF THE ELECTORS OF THE COUNTY. ANY COUNTY OFFICER MAY BE CHOSEN IN ANOTHER MANNER THEREIN SPECIFIED OR ANY COUNTY OFFICE MAY BE ABOLISHED IF ALL DUTIES OF THE OFFICE ARE TRANSCRIBED TO ANOTHER OFFICE. IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THERE'S ANOTHER PLACE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO BRING IN CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS UNDER THE CHARTER GOVERNMENT. THEY CAN REMAIN EITHER ELECTED OR THEY CAN BE APPOINTED. >>KEVIN AMBLER: WELL, MY CONCERN, AND I GUESS I WANTED TO ASK THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ABOUT THIS, IS THAT THE WAY I READ OUR PROPOSED AMENDMENT FOR THE PERFORMANCE AUDITOR, YOU COULD READ IT TO SAY THAT IT INCLUDES EVERYBODY. I MEAN SOMEBODY READING IT, A LAYPERSON FROM THE PUBLIC, READING THE WORDING ON OUR PERFORMANCE AUDITOR AMENDMENT, WOULD SAY, OH, WELL, THE ENTIRE -- EVERYBODY THAT IS SUBJECT TO GETTING MONEY UNDER THE COUNTY BUDGET COULD BE AUDITED. THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE CASE. IF IT'S NOT THE CASE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT? OR AT LEAST MAKE THAT CLEAR THEY ARE OR ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THAT. >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: IF I CAN RESPOND TO THAT, THE WAY THE PROPOSED STAFF IS WRITTEN, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO AUDIT, DO PERFORMANCE AUDITS OR WHATEVER OF ALL ASPECTS OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT. IF YOU LOOK IN SECTION 1.02, IT ACTUALLY DEFINES COUNTY GOVERNMENT AS EXCLUDING THE CONSTITUTIONALS. MY OPINION IS THAT JUST BY THE WAY IT'S WORDED, IT WILL NOT AFFECT THE CONSTITUTIONALS. HOWEVER, THERE IS NO PROBLEM IF WE WANTED TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE OF THE PROPOSAL SOMEWHAT TO RESTATE IT AND MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THOSE. >>KEVIN AMBLER: IF WE WANTED TO MAKE IT APPLICABLE TO CONSTITUTIONALS, WOULD WE HAVE TO CHANGE 1702 AS WELL? >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: THE CONSTITUTION, AND THIS IS SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT WHEN YOU READ THE PHRASE OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT THE CHAIR WAS JUST REFERRING TO, THE -- THEIR OFFICES CAN BE ABOLISHED WHEN ALL OF THE DUTIES ARE TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER OFFICE. I'D HAVE TO LOOK INTO WHETHER OR NOT YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOMEBODY UNDER THE COUNTY LOOK AT THEIR BUDGETS, FOR INSTANCE. THE OTHER THING I WOULD REMIND THE BOARD THOUGH IS THAT NOTHING IN OUR CHARTER CAN BE INCONSISTENT WITH GENERAL LAW. AND THE STATUTES ARE VERY SPECIFIC, AND THEY DIFFER SOMEWHAT FROM THE DIFFERENT CONSTITUTIONALS AS TO HOW THEIR BUDGETS CAN BE AMENDED AND WHAT POWERS THEY HAVE TO AFFECT THEM. >>KEVIN AMBLER: WOULDN'T BE CHANGING THEIR BUDGETS. ULTIMATELY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAS AUTHORITY TO APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE THE REQUESTED BUDGET OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CORRECT? >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. THE TAX COLLECTOR, FOR INSTANCE, IF WE DON'T LIKE ANYTHING -- AND I'M GOING OFF MEMORY, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE. I CAN PROVIDE TO THE BOARD AT THE NEXT MEETING OR WE CAN GET THIS OUT TO YOU BEFOREHAND, THIS ISSUE CAME UP AT THE LAST CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, AND I DID A CHART AS TO EXACTLY WHAT POWERS THE BOARD HAS UNDER GENERAL LAW TO AFFECT ANY OF THEIR BUDGETS. >>KEVIN AMBLER: THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT CHART AGAIN. I MEAN, IT WILL BE HELPFUL TO SEE THAT CHART TO UNDERSTAND THAT HIERARCHY OF CONTROL. >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: IF THE BOARD'S DESIRE IS TO AFFECT THE CONSTITUTIONALS WITH THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT, WHICH IS NOT WHAT I HAD ENVISIONED THE PROPOSAL TO BE INITIALLY, IF THEY WANTED TO CHANGE IT AND GO TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN WE NEED TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION SO YOU CAN BE ABLE TO TELL. >>KEVIN AMBLER: WELL, IN ANTICIPATION OF SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT WHICH WE MAY GET, WHICH IS THE QUESTION ARE YOU DOING IT FOR EVERYBODY OR JUST FOR EVERYBODY BUT THE CONSTITUTIONALS, THEN WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS A PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL AUDITOR THAT IS ONLY LOOKING AT 50% OF THE COUNTY BUDGET. BECAUSE 50% OF THE BUDGET IS NOT UNDER THE BOCC PER SE OR UNDER COUNTY GOVERNMENT USING THIS DEFINITION IN SECTION 1.02, 50% OF THE BUDGET REALLY FALLS UNDER ALL OF THE CONSTITUTIONALS. >>MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THE COMMENT. >>JAN SMITH: THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AS TO HOW MUCH REALLY IS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S PORTION. AND I THINK AT ONE POINT, MR. HUNZEKER MIGHT HAVE ANSWERED -- I THINK HE SENT US ALL SOME PAPERS DEFINING UNDER THE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS WHAT PART OF THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR WAS TRULY RESPONSIBLE FOR MANAGING AND PRESENTING AND THEN WHAT WAS SEPARATE. FOR INSTANCE, THE SHERIFF -- HE HAS -- IF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SAID THEY DIDN'T WANT TO APPROVE HIS BUDGET AND THEY WANTED HIM TO CUT IT, HE HAS A RIGHT TO APPEAL, AND THAT IS, I BELIEVE, TO THE GOVERNOR AND CABINET. THERE ARE APPEALS ALL OVER WHICH IS -- A COUPLE OF THE OTHER CHARTER COUNTIES OUT OF THE 17. I THINK THERE'S MAYBE TWO, MAYBE MORE, THAT HAVE BROUGHT THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS UNDER THE CHARTER GOVERNMENT. AND AGAIN YOU CAN BRING THEM UNDER AND MAKE THEM ELECTED OR APPOINTED. YOU CAN MAKE THEM AN ADMINISTRATIVE POSITION. >>KEVIN AMBLER: CAN YOU BRING THEM UNDER FOR THE LIMITED PURPOSE OF HAVING THEM SUBJECTED TO THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT. >>JAN SMITH: I DOUBT IT THEY WILL BE UNDER STATE LAW. THAT IS MY OPINION, AND MS. CAMPBELL CAN LOOK INTO THAT. >>DAVID HURLEY: SEEMS REASONABLE. >>JAN SMITH: OKAY. AT THE MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE UNDER THE CREATION SECTION 1702, THE EXTENT LOOSE -- 1.02, THE EXTENT LOOSE. BACK TO SECTION 1.02 ON THE POWERS. >>GERALD WHITE: MADAM CHAIR, FOR THE BENEFITS OF THE PUBLIC AS YOU GO THROUGH EACH SECTION, CAN YOU GO AHEAD AND READ IT SO THE PUBLIC CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE WE ARE. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN COPIES. >>JAN SMITH: DO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE COPIES OF THE CHARTERS, THOSE THAT ARE WITH US THIS EVENING? DO IT THAT WAY, ON THE ELMO, THAT WILL BE THE EASIEST. LET'S SEE HOW FAST OUR PUBLIC READS. >>KEVIN AMBLER: WE'RE ON -- >>JAN SMITH: 2.01. >>KEVIN AMBLER: THE FIRST SECTION YOU PICKED TO BE ON THAT MACHINE IS SPLIT ON ONE PAGE -- >>JAN SMITH: I HAVE A LARGE PAGE. >>BARBARA MERRITT: LET ME BORROW YOURS, PLEASE. WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THIS ON THE ELMO FOR A MINUTE OR TWO. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENT WHILE THEY'RE PUTTING ON THE ELMO ABOUT SECTION 2.01? IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT'S ONE THAT WE CAN -- YOU KNOW, ANY OF THESE -- REMEMBER AT ANY TIME, ANY OF THESE CAN COME BACK. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS FIND A WAY DOWN TO A FEW BIGGIES. SO IT'S MY SENTIMENT THAT SECTION 2.011 PRETTY WELL STATED AND WE SHOULD LEAVE IT ALONE AT THIS POINT. THE NEXT ONE IS SECTION 3.01. SEPARATION OF POWERS, SEPARATION OF LEGISLATIVE AND EXECUTIVE POWERS. THE POWER OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT SHALL BE DIVIDED INTO LEGISLATIVE AND EXECUTIVE BRANCHES. NO PERSON BELONGING TO ONE BRANCH SHALL EXERCISE ANY POWERS APPEAR TER TANG TO THE OTHER BRANCH UNLESS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED THEREIN. >>KEVIN AMBLER: THAT'S NOT REALLY THE WAY WE OPERATE, IS IT? >>JAN SMITH: THERE IS THE INTENT -- THE STRUCTURE OF OUR GOVERNMENT MAY NOT, IN FACT -- I ALWAYS LOOKED AT THE GOVERNMENT AS A CORPORATE STRUCTURE AS THE SHAREHOLDERS ELECTING A BOARD AND THE BOARD ELECTING AN EXECUTIVE AND ALL OF US WORKING TOGETHER. IT WAS ALSO INTENDED TO HAVE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS NOT MEDDLE IN THE EXECUTIVE'S RESPONSIBILITIES. AND THAT REALLY GOES BACK MANY YEARS TO A TIME WHEN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS -- THE COUNTY COMMISSION, IN FACT, MOSTLY WAS THE ROAD COMMITTEE. AND THEY DEALT WITH MOSTLY ROAD ISSUES, AND THEY WOULD GET INVOLVED WITH THE LOCAL STAFFS AND, YOU KNOW, TRY TO, YOU KNOW, PUSH THEIR PROJECTS IN THEIR PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD, RESURFACING OF ROADS, POURING MORE DIRT ROAD ON GRAVEL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THE LEGISLATIVE RESPONSIBILITIES VERSUS THE EXECUTIVE'S RESPONSIBILITIES TO CARRY OUT THE BOARD'S POLICY. >>STEVE LaBOUR: MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THE SEPARATION OF POWERS REALLY GOES TO THE NEXT COUPLE OF SECTIONS, LEGISLATIVE AND EXECUTIVE. OBVIOUSLY IF WE DECIDE WE WANT TO REALLY FULLY EXAMINE WHAT -- HOW THE MAKE-UP AND STRUCTURE. THAT MIGHT CHANGE, IN FACT, THE POWERS. SO THE POWER -- IF WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO LOOK AT SETTING ASIDE A MEETING IN WHICH WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THEN THE SEPARATION OF POWERS IS REALLY A MOOT DISCUSSION FOR THIS EVENING. >>JAN SMITH: A MOOT DISCUSSION UNLESS WE DO THAT, EXACTLY. >>ARLENE WALDRON: MADAM CHAIR. I WAS GIVEN AN EXPLANATION THAT THE KEYWORD IN THIS PARAGRAPH WAS NO PERSON. AND THAT PERHAPS THE INTENT THAT A SINGLE ENTITY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO EXERCISE ANY POWER. >>JAN SMITH: UM -- >>ARLENE WALDRON: THAT PERHAPS -- SPEAKING TO A SINGLE ENTITY, NOT HAVING THAT POWER. >>JAN SMITH: BUT I -- I ALWAYS INTERPRETED IT AS BEING IT WAS AN INTENT TO SOME EXTENT SEPARATE THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE BOARD TO SET POLICY, THE ADMINISTRATOR TO CARRY IT OUT, IN WHICH YOU CAN CONSIDER INDIVIDUAL BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS NOT TO USE THEIR PERCEIVED POWER, INFLUENCE TO, IN FACT, CAUSE THE ADMINISTRATOR TO FEEL AN OBLIGATION TO HIRE OR FIRE CERTAIN PERSONNEL. THAT WAS ALSO PART OF THAT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THE IMPORTANT THING IS THIS IS A SEPARATION OF POWERS. THE POWERS IS WHAT REALLY IS -- NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED -- IS DISCUSSED. AND ONCE THAT'S FIGURED OUT, THEN THE SEPARATION IS FAIRLY EASY. >>JAN SMITH: MS. TUTTLE. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS, AND PEOPLE HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COULD HIRE UNDER THE CURRENT CHARTER -- COULD HIRE AN AUDITOR, COULD HIRE A BUDGET PERSON, AND WHERE ARE THEY GIVEN THOSE POWERS? I DON'T SEE IT HERE. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THOSE SEEM TO ME TO BE VERY ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS. >>JAN SMITH: THEY ARE -- IT IS PRETTY MUCH DEALT WITH -- TO SOME EXTENT IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, BUT ALSO IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVES THAT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR HAS AND I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER OF ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVES BUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 150 AND 180. I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT THE NUMBER IS. AND IN FACT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE CONSTITUTION, AND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, THERE IS NOT A DEFINED PROCEDURE FOR BUDGETS OR ANYTHING IN THOSE BECAUSE THOSE ARE, IN FACT, CONSIDERED ADMINISTRATIVE AND SHOULD ADDRESSED. IN FACT, ANYTHING IN OUR CHARTER -- ANYTHING THAT IS NOT ADDRESSED IN THIS CHARTER SHOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE. AND THAT ADMINISTRATIVE CODE SHALL BE PRESENTED TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BY THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR THEIR APPROVAL. THAT'S HOW HE CARRIES THINGS OUT. ALSO, THERE IS AN INTENT IN HERE AS I RECALL THAT THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE WAS TO BE REVIEWED. AND RECENTLY ASKED ONE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IF THEY RECALL REVIEWING THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, AND THE ANSWER WAS, NO. ALTHOUGH I DO BELIEVE AT SOME TIME WHEN JOE CHILLURA SERVED ON THE BOARD, HE DID ATTEMPT TO GET SOME ISSUES FROM THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE REVIEW AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT TOOK PLACE. AND MY MEMORY OF THAT IS RATHER FUZZY, BUT THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE IS WHERE ALL THAT INFORMATION ON THE BUDGET AND ALL IS. AND I THINK, MS. MERRITT, DID YOU PASS OUT THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE? IT'S IN HERE? YES. THANK YOU. >>STEVE LaBOUR: MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WILL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT MAYBE WE -- IT'S A RECOMMENDATION RIGHT NOW, NOT A MOTION, THAT WE SET ASIDE A DAY -- A DATE SPECIFIC TO ACTUALLY AGENDA THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND REALLY GET INTO A DISCUSSION. BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD QUITE A BIT OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM INCREASING OR DECREASING THE SIZE -- THE SIZE OF THE DISTRICTS, THE NUMBER OF THE DISTRICTS, PARTISAN, NONPARTISAN, SEVERAL ISSUES. I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE AN AGENDAED ITEM THAT WILL BE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, AS WELL AS EXECUTIVE BRANCH. >>JAN SMITH: ACTUALLY I HOPED THAT OUR NEXT MEETING OR TWO MEETINGS WILL BE CONFINED TO THOSE TWO ISSUES, AS THEY CAME HERE IN THIS CHARTER AND BECAUSE THEY DO COME. THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THE FUNCTIONS OF THE TWO. NOT TO JUST TALK ABOUT ONE IN ISOLATION TO THE OTHER, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO, IN NECESSITY, BE LINKED. SO SOME OF THAT DISCUSSION WILL PROBABLY LEAD TO OTHER ISSUES THAT FOLLOW, FOR INSTANCE, TERM LIMITS AND PARTISAN ELECTIONS. BUT I THINK MY PERSONAL OPINION IS THE LEGISLATIVE DISCUSSION AND THE LEGISLATIVE AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS WE WILL DO ON THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: MADAM CHAIRMAN, EXCUSE ME. >>JAN SMITH: I'M SAYING DISCUSSION. I DON'T MEAN ANYBODY TAKES A POSITION. BUT I THINK THE PUBLIC DISCUSSION IS ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE. MS. TUTTLE. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING NEXT TIME, AND THREE SPEAKERS, ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS, NONE OF WHICH CAN POSSIBILITY IN THEIR WILDEST DREAMS STICK TO 10 MINUTES. IS IT POSSIBLE -- WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO DISCUSS THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE. COULD WE DO IT THE FOLLOWING TIME? >>JAN SMITH: I WOULD SUGGEST PERHAPS -- AS I SEE THE PEOPLE HERE THIS EVENING AND WE GET INTO OUR PUBLIC HEARING. WE'VE GOT TIME. IF YOU WANT -- IF YOU WANT TO STOP HERE. IT SEEMS TO ME THE RIGHT PLACE TO STOP AND START BECAUSE MOST EVERYTHING THAT COMES AFTER THAT DOES RELATE TO THAT DISCUSSION. AND I ALSO THOUGHT AT SOME POINT IN TIME THAT IF IT APPEARS TO BE THE INTENT OF THIS BOARD TO PROPOSE A CHANGE IN STRUCTURE, THAT THERE -- WE MIGHT WANT TO SET ASIDE ONE ENTIRE MEETING JUST FOR THAT DISCUSSION. TO HAVE NO GUESTS. TO HAVE NOTHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA BUT THAT TOPIC. MR. BEDKE. >>MIKE BEDKE: ALONG THOSE LINES, AND I THINK THE RECOMMENDATION IS A GOOD ONE. I'M WONDERING IF IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO APPOINT A WORKING GROUP TO BEGIN LOOKING AT SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES THAT WE WOULD EXPECT TO ARRIVE UNDER THESE. I LEFT THE LAST MEETING ALMOST HAVING MADE A MOTION TO RECONSIDER MS. WALDRON'S MOTION, WHICH FAILED ON A TIE VOTE, BECAUSE MY CONCERN IS WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE NEXT TIME THIS IS AGENDAED A COUPLE OF MEETINGS FROM NOW, AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES, SOME OF WHICH WE CAN PROBABLY ANTICIPATE, AND WE CAN BE A LITTLE BIT FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD IF A GROUP WERE APPOINTED. BECAUSE IT WAS LATE IN THE EVENING AND TEMPERS WERE HEATING UP, I FELT -- I VOTED AGAINST MS. WALDRON'S MOTION, BUT IF SHE WOULD MAKE IT THIS EVENING, I PROBABLY WOULD SUPPORT IT. I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU WOULD ENVISION AS THE PROCESS, BECAUSE I HAD JOTTED DOWN A COUPLE OF COMMENTS UNDER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH SECTION THAT I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, SOME OF WHICH ARE COMING ABOUT AS A RESULT OF THE DISCUSSION FROM THE PINELLAS COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THIS EVENING. IF SOMEBODY HAD A COUPLE OF WEEK'S LEAD TIME TO BEGIN DOS A -- DOING A SYNOPSIS OF, I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL AS WE GOT THAT THAT DISCUSSION. >>JAN SMITH: I THINK WHEN I FIRST RAISED THIS AND HAD YOU ALL MAKE THOSE LISTS, I TALKED ABOUT HAVING -- I TALKED TO MS. MERRITT ABOUT IT, I DON'T THINK IF I TALKED TO THE BOARD ABOUT IT, I THINK I TRIED TO RAISE IT, THAT WE PUT A COUPLE OF COMMITTEES TOGETHER, BECAUSE THERE'S MORE THAN ONE FORM OF GOVERNMENT THAT IS DEFINED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION THAT WE COULD CONSIDER. AND JUST FROM COMMENTS I HEARD FROM VARIOUS BOARD MEMBERS, I THOUGHT THERE WAS INTEREST IN, FOR INSTANCE, KEEPING THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE NOW, AND MAYBE ONE OR TWO MINOR TWEAKS TO IT, PERHAPS THE AUDITOR BEING ONE OF THOSE TWEAKS TO THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE. THE OTHER WAS THE ELECTED CHAIRMAN COMMISSION, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT THAT FRAN BARFORD, THE MAYOR OF TEMPLE TERRACE, PROBABLY DISCUSSED THIS EVENING AND THEN THE EXECUTIVE. I THOUGHT ORIGINALLY THAT PERHAPS PUTTING THOSE IDEAS ALL TOGETHER BY THREE DIFFERENT GROUPS AND PRESENTING THEM, THAT IT WOULD BRING US TO SOME POINT. I ALSO THOUGHT THAT FROM THE BOARD'S DISCUSSION LAST TIME, THAT THERE WASN'T A MEMBER SERVING ON THIS BOARD THAT DIDN'T WANT TO BE A PART OF THE DISCUSSION OF AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THAT CAME PRETTY CLEAR, I THINK, AT THE LAST MEETING. SO I WOULD BE MAYBE MORE IN FAVOR OF RATHER THAN -- I THINK AT SOME POINT THERE WILL BE INTO NEED FOR A COMMITTEE IF IT IS THE CONSENSUS OF THIS BOARD TO PROPOSE SOMETHING, BUT I FELT PERHAPS THE FIRST MEETING SHOULD BE A GENERAL DISCUSSION BY EVERYONE TO GIVE THEIR INPUT, AND EVERYONE COULD MAKE A LIST OF WHAT THEY THINK THE TOPICS ARE RELATED TO THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT. AT THE SAME TIME, IT WOULD -- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL HAVE DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT THEY THINK ARE IMPORTANT AS FAR AS THAT. FOR INSTANCE, WHEN THE PROPOSAL WENT TO THE LEGISLATURE, THE -- THE PROPOSAL FOR AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE ALSO HAD IN IT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE ELECTED EXECUTIVE TO VETO LAND USE AND ZONING, AND I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC AND MANY PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, I WOULD THINK, THAT WOULDN'T THINK THAT WAS A PROPER VETO EVEN WITH OVERRIDE. BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS THEN THE EXECUTIVE -- SO THERE ARE MANY, MANY ISSUES TO BE DISCUSSED. I THINK -- I WOULD RATHER EITHER ADD A MEETING AND HAVE A GENERAL DISCUSSION AND GO AROUND THE ROOM. JUST LIKE WE'VE DONE ON OTHERS AND SAY RAISE THE ISSUE, MR. WILKES THAT YOU THINK IS IMPORTANT IN THIS DISCUSSION. AND THEN -- AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO LET THE CONVERSATION FLOW RATHER THAN HAVE IT MORE DIRECTED, ALMOST IN MORE OF A WASH WALL ATMOSPHERE SO PEOPLE CAN GET INTO GIVE-AND-TAKE CONVERSATIONS. I ALMOST FEEL IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT AT THAT POINT TO SUSPEND THE RULES AND LET THE PEOPLE TALK. MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: I HAVE TO TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU. I LIKED STEVE'S COMMENT BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS IN THIS. MORE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, MAYBE NOT ANY MORE, BUT AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN. THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THERE THAT ARE RUMINATING IN MY HEAD, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW THINGS I REALLY HAVEN'T COME TO GRIPS WITH AN OPINION ON. DON'T ANYBODY PASS OUT WHEN I SAY THAT, DON'T HAVE AN OPINION ON. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT THESE BEFORE I WOULD TAKE OFF ON A COMMITTEE TO DO ONE OR THE OTHER. I THINK THAT YOU MIGHT END UP WITH SUBCOMMITTEES THAT WOULD END UP WITH AN ADVOCACY POSITION THAT THEY REALLY DIDN'T INTEND TO GET OFF ON. I REALLY GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS -- I WOULDN'T WANT TO SERVE ON ANY OF THOSE COMMITTEES AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME. I THINK I'M STILL TRYING TO DO INDUCTIVE REASONING. PEOPLE IN THE ENGINEERING BUSINESS, THAT IS YOU GET ALL THE INFORMATION YOU CAN, AS OPPOSED TO THROWING OUT SOME THAT YOU DON'T LIKE. THAT'S THE DIRECTION I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT TAKE. I THINK IT WILL TAKE A FULL MEETING. I DON'T SEE US DOING THAT IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. >>JAN SMITH: AT THE END OF THE MEETING, IT MIGHT BE AN APPROPRIATE THING TO PUT A COMMITTEE TOGETHER. ONE OF THE THINGS -- MS. MERRITT, IF YOU WOULD DO -- I KNOW WE HAVE THE ORANGE COUNTY CHARTER. AND DO WE HAVE -- WE SHOULD HAVE A CHARTER ON AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE FORM. >>BARBARA MERRITT: WE HAVE EVERY CHARTER ON DISK. WHATEVER YOU NEED, WE HAVE IT. >>JAN SMITH: POINT THOSE OUT TO US. I DON'T MEAN A CONSOLIDATED CHARTER LIKE IN JACKSONVILLE, BUT AN ELECTED COMMISSION. AN ELECTION CHAIR COMMISSION AND THEN WHAT WE HAVE. IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT FOR THIS BOARD IF WE CAN GO BACK THAT FAR TO 1984 WHEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS -- THERE WERE THREE APPOINTED MEMBERS BECAUSE OF THE -- >>BARBARA MERRITT: POLITICAL SITUATION. >>JAN SMITH: -- BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAD AT THAT TIME. MAYBE IF WE CAN GET THE MINUTES OF SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS WHERE THEY ACTUALLY DISCUSSED THE STRUCTURE. BECAUSE THAT GROUP, ALL THREE OF THE APPOINTED ONES, HAD INTENTION OF RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN. THEIR GOAL, AS THEY SATED -- STATED AT THE BEGINNING WAS TO PROPOSE THE BEST FORM THAT THEY THOUGHT. IT MIGHT BE TO OUR ADVANTAGE TO HAVE THOSE THREE CHARTERS AND THE INFORMATION FROM THE ORIGINAL CHARTER BOARD THAT PROPOSED OUR CHARTER. MS. WILLIAMS. >>DEE WILLIAMS: MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION THEN THAT WE STOP RIGHT HERE, TAKE OUR BREAK CUT TO PUBLIC HEARING AND DO WHAT YOU SUGGEST, TAKE THIS UP AT A FUTURE TIME, AND IT'S UP TO YOU TO DECIDE. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IN GOING THROUGH THESE PAGES, WE HAVE BUMPED UP WITH WHAT WE WANT TO DEAL WITH. >>STEVE LaBOUR: ACTUALLY I WAS GOING TO OFFER A MOTION TO HELP MOVE US. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE TAKE OUR AUGUST 24th MEETING AND OUR TWO MEETINGS IN SEPTEMBER TO TALK ABOUT STRUCTURE. >>JAN SMITH: AUGUST 24th IS -- JOANNE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT'S COMING? >>KEVIN AMBLER: CAN WE RESCHEDULE HER? >>STEVE LaBOUR: I DON'T THINK IT'S A PROBLEM. JUST ONE PERSON. >>JAN SMITH: LET ME ASK YOU, IF YOU ALL ARE INCLINED, DO YOU WANT TO ADD A MEETING? IT'S VERY UNLIKELY THAT YOU WOULD PROPOSE ANYTHING NOW THAT WILL GO ON THE BALLOT RELATING TO THESE ISSUES. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE BETTER PART OF VALOR IS TO PICK UP ON THE 24th, ADD NO ONE ELSE. DO WE HAVE ANYBODY ELSE WE WERE TRYING TO GET HERE OTHER THAN LINDA CHAPIN? >>BARBARA MERRITT: NO. JOANNA IS THE LAST PERSON WE HAD SCHEDULED. AND COMMISSIONER HART, COMMISSIONER SCOTT, AND COMMISSIONER NORMAN AT THIS POINT HAVE NOT CHOSEN TO COME FORWARD TO BE PART OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. >>JAN SMITH: SO THE MEETING OF AUGUST THE 24th. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THE REASON I OFFER THAT ALSO -- >>JAN SMITH: I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE A WHOLE MEETING THOUGH SO WE DON'T GET OFF ON ANOTHER SUBJECT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I THINK WE CAN START THE DISCUSSION ON THE 24th AND DEDICATE SEPTEMBER TO THE TOPIC. THE ONE REASON I WANTED TO CODIFY IN ACTUAL MOTION SO THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS AND THE GROUPS THAT ARE INTERESTED THAT THIS IS THE TIME WE ARE GOING TO FOCUS ON STRUCTURE AND HOPEFULLY THEY WILL COME DOWN AND HELP US AND TALK TO US ABOUT -- ABOUT THOSE ISSUES. >> SECOND. >>DAVID HURLEY: SECOND. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE MOTION. >>JAN SMITH: WE HAVE A MOTION THAT WE'LL BEGIN DISCUSSION AT THE AUGUST 24th MEETING, AND THEN THE TWO SEPTEMBER MEETINGS WILL BE DEDICATED TO THE DISCUSSION OF THE LEGISLATIVE AND EXECUTIVE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THAT'S CORRECT. >>JAN SMITH: IS THERE -- MR. AMBLER, YOU SECONDED THAT. MOTION BY MR. LaBOUR, SECOND BY MR. AMBLER. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: YES, THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT IDEA. I SUPPORT THAT. YOU KNOW, I MAY NOT SUPPORT SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED, BUT AS A SITTING MEMBER OF THIS BODY, ANY PROPOSAL THAT COMES FORWARD I STILL WANTS TO HAVE SOME INPUT, SOME SAY-SO IN SHAPING IT. SO AT LEAST THE PEOPLE THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT ARE REPRESENTED IN ANY PROPOSAL THAT MOVES FORWARD. SO I'M VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. ALSO, I MIGHT ADD, THAT I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA. WE HAD THE PROFESSOR HERE LAST MEETING, AND I'VE ASKED HIM TO PUT A PROPOSAL TOGETHER, AND I'LL BE PRESENTING THIS BOARD THAT PROPOSAL AT OUR NEXT MEETING OF DOING SOME POLLING. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ALL MAY WANT TO DO WITH THAT PROPOSAL, BUT I'VE ASKED THEM TO COME FORWARD WITH A PROPOSAL AND SOME PRICING SO THAT WE MAY CONSIDER SEEKING SOME INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC OF THIS COUNTY. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. WHITE. I THINK ALSO THOSE -- THAT WILL RAISE A COUPLE OF OTHER ISSUES, FOR INSTANCE, THE PARTISAN, NONPARTISAN, AND TERM LIMITS. I HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH AN AGENCY IN WASHINGTON D.C. THAT DOES DOES STUDIES AND SURVEYS. THEY WILL GIVE YOU THE PROS AND CONS THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED OF EITHER OF THOSE ISSUES. I'M GOING TO HAVE THOSE SENT TO ME SO WE CAN USE THOSE. TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE FOOD FOR THOUGHT. NOT INTENDED TO SWAY YOUR OPINION, JUST TO GIVE YOU WHY PEOPLE THINK ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. >>KEVIN AMBLER: JUST A COMMENT. WHEN BARBARA MERRITT INVITED OTHER GUESTS HERE, WHO WAS OR WHO WAS NOT GOING TO COME. I MADE AN INQUIRY TO COMMISSIONER NORMAN'S OFFICE AND WANTED TO KNOW -- WE HAD SOME COMMISSIONERS COME AND I SAID DID YOU HAVE AN INVITATION AND WHY DID YOU NOT WANT TO COME? HE FELT WE WERE AN INDEPENDENT BODY. THAT THE COMMISSION ALREADY HAD THE POWER TO CHANGE THE CHARTER IF THEY WANTED TO, AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO INFLUENCE OUR PROCESS. HE WANTED US TO FEEL INDEPENDENT TO DO WHAT WE WANTED AND NOT INFLUENCED BY THE CURRENT COMMISSION. IT WASN'T THAT HE WASN'T INTERESTED IN WHAT WE WERE DOING. IT WASN'T THAT HE WASN'T KEENLY AWARE OF ALL THE THINGS WE WERE CONSIDERING. BUT HE FELT, IN HIS MIND, HE WANTED TO LEAVE US ALONE TO DO AN INDEPENDENT JOB. >>JAN SMITH: HE STATED THAT PRETTY PUBLICLY IN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETINGS THAT THE BOARD WAS DISCUSSING WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD SEND CERTAIN THINGS TO THE CHARTER REVIEW, AND JIM, COMMISSIONER NORMAN, MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. SO THANK YOU FOR RAISING IT. WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION SAY AYE. I'M SORRY, MS. WALDRON? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. ANYONE OPPOSED, SAME SIGN. THANK YOU. MS. WALDRON. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO RAISE? I'M SORRY? >>ARLENE WALDRON: WELL, I DO HAVE A QUESTION, AND THEN MY COMMENT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT TOO LATE. BUT IS IT ACCURATE THAT ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION, WE ONLY REALLY HAVE, IS IT THREE STRUCTURES OF GOVERNMENT TO ACTUALLY CHOOSE FROM? OR IS IT FOUR? >>JAN SMITH: WE HAD A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION BETWEEN TWO ATTORNEYS AT THE FIRST CHARTER REVIEW BOARD THAT I SERVED ON IN 1991 TAMPA IT WAS A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION FROM THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND MR. LAWSON. MR. LAWSON BELIEVED THAT YOU COULD, IN FACT, TAKE EITHER -- I BELIEVE IT WAS MR. LAWSON. MAYBE I HAVE IT BACKWARDS. ONE OF THEM, I'LL PUT IT THAT WAY, EITHER THE COUNTY ATTORNEY OR MR. LAWSON FELT, AND I THINKLIN CASH DID THE COUNTY'S OPINION. MAYBE -- IF YOU HAVE IT, YOU CAN TELL IT, BUT THERE WAS NOT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO ATTORNEYS WHETHER WE COULD MODIFY ANY OF THE THREE. >> MADAM CHAIR, WE ARE AT 8:00 WITH A PUBLIC HEARING. I SUGGEST WE TAKE A BREAK AND GET BACK TO THAT TOPIC. >>JAN SMITH: 8:00 WE HAVE TO START THE HEARING. LET HER ANSWER QUICKLY. >> WE CAN PROVIDE A COPY OF THE LEGAL OPINION. ONE SECTION SAYS "MAY" ONE SECTION SAYS "SHALL" THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM COMES IN BUT WE CAN PRESENT THAT TO THE BOARD. >>JAN SMITH: BOARD MEMBERS, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A RECESS AND WHEN WE COME BACK, WE WILL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU HOW WE ARE GOING TO MANAGE THAT. >>JAN SMITH: [ INAUDIBLE ] YEAH. THAT WORKS BETTER. I'D LIKE TO WELCOME THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO A PUBLIC HEARING OF YOUR CHARTER REVIEW BOARD TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS ON A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY'S CHARTER REGARDING A -- AN AUDITOR TO BE APPOINTED AND SERVE UNDER THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. AND WHAT I'M GOING TO DO FIRST IS EXPLAIN THE PROCESS TO YOU THAT WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED BY. IT'S A STANDARD PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS. I AM GOING TO ASK MR. BEDKE TO PRESENT THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE -- AND THE WORDING TO YOU. I AM GOING TO ASK THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO MAKE ANY COMMENT THAT'S APPROPRIATE TO THE PROPOSED WORDING OF THE RESOLUTION AND THE WORDING OF THE BALLOT LANGUAGE. THEN WE WILL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT. I ASK YOU, PLEASE, TO TALK ONLY ABOUT THE PROPOSAL BEFORE US. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR A PROPOSED AUDITOR. I ASK THAT YOU KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO THE ISSUE. DON'T TALK ABOUT PEOPLE OR PERSONS. IT IS THE ISSUE STRICTLY OF THE COUNTY AUDITOR. EACH PERSON WILL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK. AND THEN WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND THE BOARD CAN EITHER DISCUSS AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ADJOURN THE MEETING, THE PUBLIC HEARING, DEPENDING ON THE LATENESS OF THE HOUR. THERE WILL BE ANOTHER HEARING ON THIS SAME SUBJECT, AND THAT HEARING IS SCHEDULED FOR AUGUST 10th, ALSO IN THIS ROOM, AT 8:00. WE WILL FOLLOW THE SAME PROCEDURE AGAIN. THE BOARD WILL NOT TAKE ANY ACTION THIS EVENING. WE ARE HERE TO HEAR FROM YOU. SO, MR. BEDKE, IF I MIGHT ASK YOU TO MAKE A PRESENTATION ON THE COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS, PLEASE. >>MIKE BEDKE: CERTAINLY. AND I WANT TO THANK PUBLICLY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, KEN TINKLER, IN PARTICULAR, AND KEVIN AMBLER, WHO WAS ON THE WORKING GROUP. WE ALSO HAD A COUPLE OF OTHER GENTLEMEN, INCLUDING MR. WHITE AND MR. BELTRAN, WHO ATTENDED THE MEETING AND HELPED COME UP WITH THE INPUT INTO THE PROPOSAL. I BELIEVE THE LANGUAGE OF THE PROPOSAL HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO EACH MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE AND WILL BE SHOWN ON THE OVERHEAD AS WELL. IN ESSENCE, THE PROPOSAL IS TO AMEND THE CHARTER TO PROVIDE FOR THE APPOINTMENT, REMOVAL, QUALIFICATIONS, COMPENSATION, DUTIES OF THE COUNTY INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR, AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING FOR SEVERAL MEETINGS NOW. SUBSECTION 1 REALLY CREATES THE POSITION. AND IT'S A POSITION TO ADVISE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND ASSIST THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN CONDUCTING CONTINUING STUDIES OF THE OPERATION OF COUNTY PROGRAMS AND SERVICES. SUBSECTION 2 INDICATES THAT THE POSITION IS TO BE AN APPOINTED POSITION BASED UPON FIVE AFFIRMATIVE VOTES OF MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, IN ESSENCE, A SUPERMAJORITY. WE GOT AWAY FROM THE LANGUAGE "SUPERMAJORITY" AND WENT WITH FIVE TO BE MORE SPECIFIC, AND THE WORKING GROUP NOTED THAT SHOULD THERE BE A CHANGE IN THE STRUCTURE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION TO, FOR EXAMPLE, CREATE ADDITIONAL DISTRICTS AT SOME SUBSEQUENT DATE, THAT THIS SECTION WOULD NEED TO CHANGE, AS WOULD SOME OTHER SECTIONS WITHIN THE CHARTER, OBVIOUSLY. THE INTENT OF SECTION 2 IS THAT THE INTERNAL COUNTY PERFORMANCE AUDITOR WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE DIRECTLY TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, HENCE, REPORTING TO THE BOARD, NOT TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. SUBSECTION 3 HAS A NUMBER OF ITEMS. ONE IS THAT THE COMPENSATION WILL, AGAIN, BE FIXED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SO THE SALARY AND BENEFITS PACKAGE WILL BE SET FORTH IN A CONTRACT THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL ENTER INTO WITH THE PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. WE HAD MUCH DISCUSSION ON THIS FIRST LINE OF SUBSECTION 3, WHICH SAYS THE COUNTY INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR SHALL BE A CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT. A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS IMPORTANT. OTHERS OF US THOUGHT THAT PERHAPS THERE SHOULD BE MORE FLEXIBILITY. SO THAT'S BEEN ANOTHER SORT OF POINT OF CONTENTION. BUT AS PROPOSED, THE AUDITOR WOULD BE A CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTING -- ACCOUNTANT, EXCUSE ME -- HOLDING AN ACTIVE LICENSE. WE DID GO ON TO SAY, HOWEVER, "OR SHALL BE QUALIFIED BY EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE IN GOVERNMENTAL ACCOUNTING, INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITING PRACTICE, AND FISCAL CONTROLS." TRYING TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT WHILE PROBABLY THE PERSON WOULD HAVE A CPA DEGREE BECAUSE A LOT OF MEMBERS OF THE GROUP THOUGHT THAT THAT MAY BE IMPORTANT, TO MAINTAIN THE FLEXIBILITY, AS HAS BEEN CRAFTED IN THE LANGUAGE IN THE CHARTER DEALING WITH THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, THE SUPERMAJORITY, IF YOU WILL, COULD, IN ESSENCE, IF THE PERSON HAD OTHER QUALIFICATIONS MAKING HIM OR HER A WORTHY CANDIDATE, COULD, IN FACT, HIRE SOMEBODY WITHOUT A CPA LICENSE. IN SUBSECTION 4, AGAIN, IT DESCRIBES, REALLY, THE JOB FUNCTION. THAT IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL IS BEING HIRED TO CONDUCT PERFORMANCE AUDITS WITH RESPECT TO THE CHARTER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. SUBSECTION 5, I'D SAY THE HIGHLIGHT THERE, AGAIN, IS THAT THE COUNTY INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR MAY BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BOARD TO HIRE OUTSIDE EXPERTISE. AS WAS INDICATED EARLIER IN THE PRESENTATION BY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FROM PINELLAS, IT MEANS THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL WITH THE BOARD APPROVAL COULD HIRE OUTSIDE EXPERTS TO ASSIST IN PERFORMING THE JOB FUNCTION. SUBSECTION 6 ADDRESSES A VACANCY. OBVIOUSLY IF AN INDIVIDUAL DIES OR RESIGNS, THAT WOULD CREATE A VACANCY. A VACANCY COULD ALSO ARISE BY THE SAME SUPERMAJORITY, BEING AT LEAST FIVE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, VOTING TO TERMINATE THE CONTRACT OF THE INDIVIDUAL. IF THERE WAS A VACANCY THAT WERE TO ARISE, IT WOULD BE FILLED, THE VACANCY WOULD BE FILLED, IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE PERSON WAS HIRED ORIGINALLY. IN SECTION 2, ON PAGE 2 OF THE HANDOUT, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE THE HARD COPY, UNDER SECTION 9.04, POLITICAL ACTIVITIES, THIS IS DESIGNED TO TRY AND DEPOLITICIZE THE OFFICE. WE HAVE INDICATED THAT THE INDIVIDUAL THAT WOULD HOLD THIS POSITION IS NOT TO HOLD ANY POLITICAL OFFICE OR TAKE PART IN ANY POLITICAL ACTIVITY OTHER THAN VOTING. AGAIN, REALIZING THAT THE INTENT IS NOT TO POLITICIZE THE OFFICE, BUT IS TO HAVE SOMEBODY PERFORMING AN AUDIT FUNCTION. WE THEN, REALLY, IN THE NEXT SECTION, PROPOSE THIS TO THE VOTERS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND THE LANGUAGE THAT'S BEEN CRAFTED BY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THEN FOLLOWS THAT BASICALLY PROVIDES FOR A YES OR NO VOTE. AND WITH THAT, MADAM CHAIR, I THINK THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR LISTEN TO PUBLIC COMMENT. >>JAN SMITH: UM, AT THIS POINT IN THIS PROCEEDING, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DISCUSS IT, BUT I AM GOING TO ASK THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO GIVE US ANY COMMENTS ON THIS -- ISSUES THAT REMAIN TO BE SETTLED. >>KEN TINKLER: KEN TINKLER, ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY. MADAM CHAIR, AT THIS POINT, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD. WE WILL, OF COURSE, RESEARCH THAT QUESTION ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONALS AND HOW THIS COULD BE BROADENED TO INCLUDE THEM. I, OF COURSE, WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. >>KEN TINKLER: THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: SO AT THIS POINT IN THE MEETING WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN WITH THE PUBLIC COMMENT. I AM GOING TO READ THE NAMES OF THE FIRST THREE PEOPLE AND ASK THAT YOU MOVE TOWARD THE FRONT, PLEASE. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, VICE-CHAIRMAN DAVID HURLEY SUGGESTED THAT THERE WILL BE A THREE-MINUTE TIME SPEAKING LIMIT THIS EVENING, AND THERE WILL, AGAIN, BE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING ON AUGUST 10th IN THIS ROOM, ALSO AT 8:00. THE FIRST THREE PEOPLE, BETTY CRISLIP, JANET WILSON -- AND I AM SORRY. I CAN'T READ THE NEXT NAME. >>DAVID HURLEY: I KNOW WHO HE IS. >> GORDON COMMEE. >>JAN SMITH: GORDON COMMEE. SO MS. CRISLIP FIRST, THEN JANET WILSON, THEN GORDON COMMEE. >> I'M BETTY CRISLIP, 4405 WEST PLATT STREET, TAMPA. I WAS APPOINTED TO THE INDEPENDENT REVIEW COMMITTEE IN 1996 AND HAVE JUST BEEN REAPPOINTED BY THE B.O.C.C. I AM NOT AN ACCOUNTANT, BUT I'VE TRIED TO MAKE MYSELF A KNOWLEDGEABLE LAYPERSON ABOUT PERFORMANCE AUDITS. AND I HAVE GIVEN YOU A COPY OF WHAT I INTENDED TO SAY, AS WELL AS AN ATTACHMENT FROM THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF LOCAL COUNTY AUDITORS. I WOULD LIKE TO DIVERGE FROM THAT, THOUGH, BECAUSE OF THE TESTIMONY OF MR. MARQUIS AND MS. BARFORD. WHEN SHE DESCRIBED IN TEMPLE TERRACE WHERE FISCAL AUDITS. WHAT MOST OF WHAT MR. MARQUIS WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS FISCAL AUDITS, AND THE OTHER AUDIT THAT HE MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY WAS REALLY A MANAGEMENT AUDIT TO GIVE HIM ADVICE ABOUT HOW DEPARTMENTS WERE STRUCTURED. BUT WHAT I THINK YOU ALL ARE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT ARE PERFORMANCE AUDITS, AND THAT IS A SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT BALL GAME. PERFORMANCE AUDITS ARE WHAT FLORIDA TAXWATCH WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN THEY SAID THAT YOU CAN'T JUST BE, AS A COUNTY COMMISSION, GIVING $10,000 TO A FESTIVAL BECAUSE IT'S NICE. YOU MUST, FOR EVERY BUDGET ITEM, HAVE OUTCOMES THAT ARE VERY SPECIFIC AND OUTCOMES THAT ARE MEASURABLE AND WAYS IN PLACE TO MEASURE THEM. AND IT'S ONLY THEN THAT YOU'RE GETTING THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT PERFORMANCE AUDITS CAN GIVE YOU. NOW, GOING ON, I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON TWO ASPECTS OF YOUR WORK AND A COUPLE OF THINGS ON THE PROPOSAL ITSELF. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER THE PUBLIC HAS TIME TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR DOES BY THIS FALL WITH SO MANY OTHER ISSUES ON THE BALLOT. THE OTHER THING I AM CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT THE PERFORMANCE AUDITOR, THE INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR IS STRUCTURED NORMALLY TO GIVE ADVICE TO THE LEGISLATIVE PART OF GOVERNMENT, AND THAT IS, IN EFFECT, TO A COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. AND I QUESTION THAT IF YOU DECIDE TO GO TO A STRONG MAYOR OR ELECTED MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THE PERFORMANCE AUDITOR IS GOING TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU THINK IT OUGHT TO BECAUSE THAT ELECTED PERSON IS PROBABLY GOING TO GO ALONG THE HISTORIC PATTERN OF TAMPA'S GO-IT-ALONE MAYORS WHO VIRTUALLY IGNORE THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE LEGISLATIVE GROUP. I THINK YOUR RECOMMENDATION CAN BE STRENGTHENED. I WOULD URGE YOU TO ONLY ALLOW THE AUDITOR TO BE FIRED FOR CAUSE. I THINK THAT THE AUDITOR NEEDS INDEPENDENCE, AND HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO TELL THE COMMISSION THINGS THAT THE MANAGER DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR, BUT ALSO TELL THE COMMISSION THINGS THE COMMISSIONERS DON'T WANT TO HEAR, LIKE THE GIVING OF THE $10,000 FOR PARADES AND FESTIVALS AND THINGS. >>JAN SMITH: MS. CRISLIP, CAN YOU BRING YOUR COMMENTS TO A CLOSE, PLEASE. >> YES. YOUR AUDITOR NEEDS ADDITIONAL INDEPENDENCE THAT HE SHOULD ONLY BE REMOVED FOR CAUSE. AND I -- THE LAST THING, AS A MEMBER OF THE INDEPENDENT REVIEW COMMITTEE, I CAN TELL YOU THERE IS A DIFFERENCE EASILY DISCERNIBLE BETWEEN PERFORMANCE AUDITS DONE BY YELLOW BOOK STANDARDS AND THOSE DONE BY MANAGEMENT CONSULTANTS, SO I WOULD URGE -- STRONGLY URGE YOU TO INCLUDE A SECTION REQUIRING THAT, QUOTE, ALL AUDITS BE DONE IN COMPLIANCE WITH GOVERNMENT AUDITING STANDARDS AS ISSUED BY THE COMPTROLLER GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES, ALSO KNOWN AS GENERALLY ACCEPTED GOVERNMENT AUDITING STANDARDS, GAGAS, AND AS YELLOW BOOK STANDARDS. YOU WILL GET A VERY DIFFERENT PRODUCT UNDER THAT. AND INCIDENTALLY, THERE IS AN INDEPENDENT FUNCTION FOR CONGRESS. THE GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE, THE GAO, DOES PROVIDE INDEPENDENT BUDGET ANALYSIS AND PERFORMANCE INFORMATION TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, AND THAT PERSON HAS EXTREME INDEPENDENCE APPOINTED, I BELIEVE, FOR 10 OR 12 YEARS, AND CANNOT BE -- SO, I URGE YOU, PLEASE, TO READ THE REST OF MY STATEMENT, AND I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER INDIVIDUALLY ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE NOW OR LATER. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. MS. JANET WILSON. >> JANET WILSON, 1926 WILL FLORAL DRIVE. I SUPPORT YOUR CHARTER PROPOSAL TO HAVE A REFERENDUM TO ESTABLISH AN AUDITOR AS A TOOL FOR COMMISSIONERS. FOR -- I'M GOING TO GIVE MY POINTS AND REASONS FOR THIS. THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT WE HAVE, AS WE KNOW, WAS SET UP AND APPROVED FOR THIS COUNTY TO OVERCOME CORRUPTION. POWER WAS TAKEN FROM THE COMMISSIONERS, AND THIS VACUUM CONCENTRATES MORE POWER, AND THEREFORE, OPPORTUNITY IN THE STAFF BUREAUCRACY. THE ONLY THING WORSE WOULD HAVE THIS CONCENTRATION OF POWER IN ONE PERSON. NO STRUCTURE OR FORM OF GOVERNMENT CAN COMPLETELY COMPENSATE FOR THE NATURE OF HUMANKIND. AS THOMAS SOLE PUTS IT IN HIS VISION OF THE ANOINTED, THE TRAGIC CONDITION OF HUMANKIND. HOWEVER, THE POWER IN MANY PEOPLE, AS IN OUR COMMISSIONERS, IS A FORM OF CHECKS AND BALANCES, AND I DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S DYSFUNCTIONAL. I THINK IT'S THE BEST THERE IS. EACH PERSON HAS ACCESS TO A MAJORITY OF THEIR REPRESENTATIVES. THAT WOULD NOT BE TRUE OTHERWISE. BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER, AND THEY NEED SOME TOOLS TO HELP THEM, AND I FEEL THE AUDITOR, IF IT'S ESTABLISHED CORRECTLY, WOULD TAKE CARE OF ONE OF THESE WEAKNESSES. THE PEOPLE THAT ADVISE THEM ARE NOT UNBIASED. THEY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN THEIR OWN FUNCTIONS IN THE BUREAUCRACY, AND ADDING AN AUDITOR WITH INDEPENDENCE, AS BETTY HAS MENTIONED, COULD BE A BENEFIT TO THE COMMISSIONERS AND TO EVERY RESIDENT OF THE COUNTY. A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR THAT HAS A COMMITMENT TO GOOD GOVERNMENT AND NOT TO THE BOTTOM LINE OF A FIRM THAT'S HIRED BY THE PERSON HE IS GOING TO AUDIT, WOULD BE HELPFUL TO OUR COMMUNITY. I HAVE BEEN AN ACCOUNTANT. I HAVE VERY LITTLE FAITH IN HIRING OUTSIDE ACCOUNTANTS LIMITED WITH WHAT THEY CAN DO, LIMITED WITH FUNDS, AND KNOW THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A CERTAIN RESULT, REALLY, TO GET ANOTHER ACCOUNT. THAT'S WHY I FEEL IT SHOULD BE SOMEBODY WITH INDEPENDENCE WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT THAT'S INTERESTED IN GOOD GOVERNMENT. I CAN -- DID THE SAVINGS AND LOAN FIASCO -- THEY HAD BEEN AUDITED. WHERE WERE THE AUDITORS? MANY THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE, STARTED WITH THE -- [ INAUDIBLE ] -- I CAN GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHY THE COMMISSIONERS NEED POWER. WORKING FOR THE COMMISSIONER FOR SUN CITY CENTER WAS ZONING IN MANY ISSUES OVER THE YEARS. THE COMMISSIONERS DIRECTED THE ADMINISTRATOR TO DO A STUDY OF SUN CITY CENTER'S MASTER PLAN, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1973. ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED PLANS AT THAT TIME, PROBABLY HAD MORE IN IT THAN YOU REQUIRE TODAY. IT WAS NEVER DONE, EVEN THOUGH THE FULL COMMISSION ORDERED IT TO BE DONE. WHAT COULD THEY DO ABOUT IT? THEY NEED MORE POWER. THIS IS ONE STEP. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MS. WILSON. MR. COMMEE, PLEASE. >> GOOD EVENING. NAME IS COMMEE. MR. GORDON COMMEE. TOOK ME 40-SOME YEARS TO FIND OUT THE PRONUNCIATION OF THAT NAME. SEEMS LIKE A TEACHER WOULD HAVE TOLD ME. ANYHOW, MY NAME IS GORDON COMMEE, NEW CEO FOR TAX CAB FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA. REGULATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE. WE ARE A POLITICAL ACTION, NONPARTISAN GROUP. WE HAVE A DATABASE OF OVER 300,000 HOUSEHOLDS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. I WILL HAVE THAT BROKEN DOWN BY COUNTY SHORTLY. I AGREE THE -- WITH YOUR CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE DRAFT THAT WE DEFINITELY NEED AN AUDITOR IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY THAT REPORTS ONLY TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THE ONLY THING I SEE IN HERE THAT I DISAGREE WITH A LITTLE BIT HERE IS TAKING A MAN'S RIGHTS AWAY FROM HIM WHEN YOU PUT IN THERE THE COUNTY AUDITOR SHALL NOT ENGAGE IN ANY OTHER BUSINESS OR OCCUPATION. I THINK IF HE'S DOING HIS JOB OUT HERE AND HAS THE ABILITY TO GO OUT THERE AND DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, RACE CARS, OR WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO, HE SHOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION. ALSO, THE AMOUNT THAT HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPEND ON A -- ON A PART-TIME AUDITOR SHOULD BE LIMITED, I WOULD SAY -- LIKE THE GENTLEMAN FROM PINELLAS COUNTY SAID, $25,000, AND AFTER THAT IT GOES BEFORE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS FOR DETERMINATION IF MORE MONEY SHOULD BE SPENT. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I COMMEND THIS COUNCIL FOR THEIR HARD WORK. I KNOW IT TAKES A LOT. YOU GET A LOT OF OPINIONS FROM A LOT OF DIRECTIONS. I'M NOT GOING -- I'M GOING TO HONOR MADAM CHAIRMAN'S HERE REQUEST NOT TO NAME NO NAMES, BUT IN THE FUTURE, I PROBABLY WILL BE NAMING A LOT OF NAMES BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S HOW WE GET JUSTICE IN AMERICA IS POINTING OUT WHO DOES WHAT TO WHO AND WHY AND WHEN AND WHO IS BENEFITED. OTHER THAN THAT, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR GIVING ME THE ATTENTION AT THIS POINT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. COMMEE. THE NEXT THREE PEOPLE -- I HAVE JOE HERE WITH A QUESTION MARK, AND HE IS STAYING IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM. MR. MIKE SUAREZ, KELLY CLEM. THE FIRST ONE WILL BE MIKE SUAREZ. MIKE DOES NOT WANT TO SPEAK? >> [ INAUDIBLE ] >>JAN SMITH: OKAY. THANKS. KELLY CLEM. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY. KELLY CLEM, RIVERVIEW, FLORIDA. I AM HERE TODAY, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF HAVING AN INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. IN MY MIND, THERE IS NO ISSUE THAT IS ANY GREATER THAN FOR US TO ADOPT A FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE COUNTY BUDGET. I DON'T ENVY OUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WITH THE DAUNTING TASK OF HAVING TO MUDDLE THROUGH AND SCRUTINIZE $2.3 BILLION IN EXPENDITURES. IT'S JUST NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO -- TO DO THAT WITHOUT HELP. I AM VERY CONCERNED THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE FOR REVIEWING THE BUDGET IS AMBIGUOUS GUESSWORK AND THAT IT INVOLVES BIAS, INFORMATIONAL BIAS. AS A CITIZEN, IT'S OBVIOUS TO ME THAT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATION DOMINATES, ABSOLUTELY DOMINATES, THE INFORMATION DISSEMINATED TO OUR ELECTED COMMISSIONERS REGARDING EVEN THE MOST BASIC AND CRITICAL DECISION THAT IS THEY MAKE IN REFERENCE TO THE BUDGET. CURRENTLY UNDER OUR SYSTEM, WE HAVE THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT SERVICES, WHO IS CHARGED WITH THE TASK OF BUDGETARY OVERSIGHTS, BUT WHO DO THEY REPORT TO? THEY REPORT TO THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. AND I -- I FEEL IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT OUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS NEED THAT ASSISTANCE. IT'S A DAUNTING TASK. AND IN REFERENCE TO THE IMBALANCE THAT EXISTS BETWEEN SEPARATION OF POWERS, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A COUNTY ADMINISTRATION THAT DOMINATES OVER OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS, AND I'D LIKE TO REMIND YOU WHAT JAMES MADISON, ONE OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS, SAID. HE SAID THE PRESERVATION OF FREE GOVERNMENT REQUIRES THAT THE METES AND THE BOUNDS WHICH SEPARATE GOVERNMENTAL DEPARTMENTS BE INVARIABLY MAINTAINED. AND MORE ESPECIALLY, THAT NEITHER OF THEM BE SUFFERED TO OVERLAP THE BARRIER WHICH DEFENDS THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE. PEOPLE WHO SUBMIT TO THESE SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT ARE GOVERNED BY LAWS, AND I MIGHT SAY BUDGETS, THAT ARE NEITHER MADE BY THEMSELVES OR PEOPLE THAT THEY ELECTED TO DO IT. I HAVE TO ASK MYSELF WHY. WHY WOULD ANYONE -- AND ALL OF US HERE ARE FOR FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE COUNTY GOVERNMENT -- WHY WOULD ANYONE OPPOSE APPOINTING A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR WHO IS GOING TO ANSWER DIRECTLY, NOT TO A COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, BUT WHO IS GOING TO ANSWER TO OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS? IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TO SAY NO TO AN APPOINTED COUNTY PERFORMANCE AUDITOR IS TO SAY NO, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN UNBIASED ACCOUNTABILITY FOR COUNTY TAX DOLLARS. NO, OUR COUNTY AGENCIES AND GOVERNMENTAL DEPARTMENTS DON'T WANT ANY CONSTRUCTIVE RECOMMENDATIONS ON WAYS TO SAVE MONEY OR PROMOTE EFFICIENCY. AND NO, I ACCEPT THE FACT THAT COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, ARE AT THE MERCY, OFTEN, OF COUNTY ADMINISTRATION TO GIVE THEM CRITICAL INFORMATION, WHICH LEADS, SOMETIMES, TO DECISIONS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE THAT THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE. SO I SUPPORT A COUNTY AUDITOR. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. MS. MARILYN SMITH. >> WELL, HELLO, 13 OF YOU FOLKS. WE'RE MOVING ALONG HERE. GLAD WE'VE COME TO THE PUBLIC HEARING OF THE COUNTY AUDITOR QUESTION. I WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP SOMETHING BEFORE I GO INTO THAT, THOUGH. I'VE ASKED THIS MORE THAN ONCE. SECTION 5, YOUR EXECUTIVE BRANCH. WHY HAVE WE NOT DEALT WITH THIS, AND WHY IS THIS -- >>JAN SMITH: MS. SMITH, I MUST ASK YOU TO STICK TO THE ISSUE OF THE COUNTY AUDITOR, PLEASE. >> I WILL AS SOON AS I ASK THIS QUESTION. WHEN ARE WE GOING TO CLEAN UP THE LANGUAGE AND GET RID OF THE PERFORMANCE BOND ON THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR? THIS WILL BE THE THIRD TIME I ASKED. DON'T YOU GUYS WANT TO CLEAN UP HERE? THAT'S HOUSEKEEPING. I THINK YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT. I MEAN, YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE CITIZENS OTHERWISE, ARE YOU? THE REASON WHY I THINK WE NEED AN AUDITOR ARE MANY AND VARIED, AND OF COURSE, I COME DOWN HERE ALL THE TIME. OH, AM I BORING YOU, MR. LaBOUR? AND I AM HERE, AND I HAVE SEEN THIS BOARD IN ACTION, AND I HAVE SEEN THIS BOARD SKEWED AROUND WITH THE INFORMATION BROUGHT BY A VERY BIASED STAFF. THEY GET WHAT THEY WANT BECAUSE THEY BRING ONLY TO THE BOARD WHAT THEY WANT THEM TO VOTE ON, AND IT'S HAPPENED TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN. IT'S NOT JUST MONEY; IT'S LAND DECISIONS. IT'S ANY DECISION THAT THEY THINK THEY CAN FURTHER THEMSELVES WITH. MAKE NO MISTAKE, THE BIGGEST POLITICIAN IN THIS COUNTY IS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, AND HE'S RATHER SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE HE HAS A WHOLE BUNCH OF CREW UNDER HIM HELPING HIM GET WHAT HE WANTS. NOW, THE AUDITOR NEEDS A PLACE. IT NEEDS TO BE CALLED, ALSO, A BUDGET ANALYST, NOT JUST PERFORMANCE, BUT A BUDGET ANALYST. WE DO NOT NEED AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE. WE HAD SOME OF THOSE ALREADY. THINK OF A LIFELONG -- DICKEY. ELLSWORTH SIMMONS WAS ELECTED AND SAT THERE AS CHAIR FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS. POWER CORRUPTS. OBVIOUSLY. LOOK AT YOUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. LOOK AT THE POWER HE HAS. IF YOU DON'T THINK HE ISN'T SKEWING THINGS, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. SIT DOWN HERE SOME TIME MORE FREQUENTLY AND WATCH WHAT GOES ON AND READ WHAT'S ON THAT AGENDA AND DON'T THINK IT'S NOT SKEWED. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IT IS. I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE. ANYBODY WANT TO REFUTE IT, COME ON. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MS. SMITH. THE NEXT THREE PEOPLE TO SPEAK, MICHAEL CARDUCCI, JOSEPH CATANO AND ROY DAVIS. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS MICHAEL CARDUCCI. I AM AT 1427 CLARION DRIVE IN VALRICO. I AM SPEAKING FOR THE APPOINTMENT OF AN INDEPENDENT AUDITOR. MAYBE A LITTLE MORE WIDESPREAD THAN I THOUGHT THIS CONVERSATION WAS GOING TO DISCUSS TONIGHT. BUT TO BE PLACED ON THE REFERENDUM FOR PUBLIC VOTING THIS NOVEMBER. MY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE MANAGING TURNAROUND DIVISIONS OF FORTUNE 100 COMPANIES, AND NOW A MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT, AND GOD FORBID I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE PART OF THIS MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT, HAS CREATED MY AREA OF EXPERTISE. OBVIOUSLY THAT IS LOOKING AT PROBLEMS, SEEKING ALTERNATIVES AND SOLUTIONS VIA MY EXPERIENCE. WE HAVE LEARNED OVER MANY YEARS THAT OUR BUSINESSES WHERE MONEY TRANSFERS FOR PRODUCT OR SERVICES REQUIRES THE CONTROLS, PROCEDURES, AND STRUCTURE, AND I BELIEVE THIS COUNTY HAS MOST OF THOSE THINGS IN PLACE UNDER THE TITLE OF THE CLERK OF COUNTY COURTS. WHETHER THEY ARE USED OR NOT IN FULL IS MY PROBLEM. THAT IS THE INDEPENDENT AUDIT THAT I AM SAYING IS MISSING. IT'S THE FINAL LINK. I THINK WE NEED MORE THAN A PERFORMANCE AUDIT. I THINK WE NEED AN AUDITOR WHO IS GOING TO DO A PERFORMANCE, A COMPLIANCE, AND A FULL FINANCIAL PROVING OF THE ACCURACY MEETING ALL LEGAL REQUIREMENTS. FINALLY, TO REPORT THE RECORDS OF THE TRANSACTIONS IN SUCH A MANNER THAT OTHERS, PARTICULARLY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, CAN RELY UPON THOSE CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMEND THE IMPLEMENTATION PROGRAM. WE KNOW THAT THAT IS NOT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW BASED ON THE TAXWATCH PROGRAM. IF THAT PROGRAM IS WRONG, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE TELLING ME SO, BUT UNTIL SOMEONE TELLS ME SO, IT SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED. IT'S ANOTHER REASON FOR AN INDEPENDENT AUDITOR. WHO IN THIS ROOM DOES NOT TAKE THEIR BANK STATEMENT MONTHLY AND ANALYZE EVERY DEPOSIT AND WITHDRAWAL TO AUDIT THE BANK RECORDS? DO WE THINK THE BANK IS CROOKED? DO WE THINK THE BANK EMPLOYEES ARE DISHONEST? LACK OF TRUTHFULNESS OR INCOMPETENT? DO WE NOT KNOW THAT THE BANK HAS A CONTROLLER, A CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, INTERNAL AUDITORS? NO, WE KNOW ALL OF THAT, BUT WE STILL WANT IT AUDITED. WE WANT IT AUDITED TO MAKE SURE WHAT OUR MONEY HAS BEEN DOING IS DOING RIGHT BY OUR OWN SPENDING. WE WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE ARE USING IT WISELY. FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY CARRIES WITH IT THE INTEGRITY OF ASSETS SUPPORTED BY AN AUDITED DOCUMENT. OUR COUNTY OFFICES SHOULD BE SUPPORTED WITH SUCH DOCUMENTS. ANOTHER REASON WHY WE NEED A FULL INDEPENDENT COUNTY AUDITOR. THE INTEGRITY DEMANDS THAT ALL ARE ABLE TO STAND SUCH SCRUTINY OF AN AUDIT, PARTICULARLY AN INDEPENDENT ONE, SEPARATE FROM THE POLITICAL BUDDY SYSTEM THAT'S NORMALLY INCURRED IN ANY CORPORATION, AS WELL AS OUR COUNTY, TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THE PUBLIC. NOW ON HOW OUR MONEY IS BEING SPENT AND HOW OUR ASSETS ARE BEING USED. >>JAN SMITH: MR. CARDUCCI, COULD YOU BRING YOUR COMMENTS TO A CLOSE, PLEASE. >> I SURELY WILL. THE FACT IS THAT WE HAVE A GREAT NEED FOR A FULL AUDIT. WE HAVE A GREAT NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE OUR ASSETS ARE BEING USED, HOW THEY ARE BEING USED, AND AN ACTUAL REPORT TO THE PEOPLE THROUGH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND CERTAINLY, AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN OF ANY ERRORS THEY FIND. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. MR. JOSEPH CATANO AND THEN ROY DAVIS. >> JOSEPH CATANO, 5304 CANARY PORT. TAMPA. I APPEAR BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY FOR YOU TO PLEASE ADOPT A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. HAVE IT ON THE BALLOT FOR NOVEMBER OF 2000. MOST LIKELY, ALL MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD EITHER WORK OR OWN A COMPANY THAT MUST SCRUTINIZE ON HOW YOU RUN YOUR BUSINESS OR YOUR HOME IN RESPECT TO FINANCES. HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, WITH A BUDGET OF $2.3 BILLION, MOST CERTAINLY WOULD BENEFIT WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THIS OFFICE. THE BENEFIT TO THE TAXPAYERS IS THE REASON THAT THIS POSITION SHOULD BE ESTABLISHED. THAT ONLY CAN HAPPEN WHEN THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD APPROVING THE DRAFT THAT'S BEFORE YOU FOR THIS POSITION TO BE PUT ON THE BALLOT AND LET THE TAXPAYERS DECIDE HOW THEY WANT THEIR MONEY SPENT. DO THEY WANT IT SPENT RADICALLY, OR DO THEY WANT IT SPENT CONSERVATIVELY? AND THAT COULD ALL HAPPEN THROUGH A COUNTY AUDITOR. AS MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD, IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THE CITIZENS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO THE ISSUE BY AFFORDING THE TAXPAYERS THE CHANCE TO SAY YES OR NO WHETHER WE WILL HAVE A POSITION CREATED FOR A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. THERE ARE OTHER COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHICH HAVE IMPLEMENTED A COUNTY AUDITOR, AND IT HAS BROUGHT DRAMATIC RESULTS IN FINANCES TO THOSE COUNTIES. SO THIS IS A REASON WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THE TAXPAYERS, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING THE BILLS. MOST PEOPLE DON'T COME TO THESE MEETINGS. I KNOW I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN A LONG TIME. MY BUSINESS DEMANDS THAT I BE THERE, AND I AM THERE IN ORDER TO SEE THAT MY BUSINESS IS SUCCESSFUL. AND THAT'S THE REASON IT'S SUCCESSFUL, BECAUSE I AM THERE WATCHING HOW EVERYTHING GOES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. CATANO. MR. DAVIS. >> MY NAME IS ROY DAVIS, 3224 McINTOSH ROAD. I AM THE OWNER OF TAMPA WHOLESALE NURSERY, A SMALL BUSINESS, AN AGRICULTURAL ENTITY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. SEVERAL YEARS AGO, A GROUP OF US BEGAN TO WORK TOWARD THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A PERFORMANCE AUDIT CAPABILITY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. YOU CANNOT IMAGINE THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT WE WENT THROUGH BECAUSE NOBODY WANTED IT. EVERYBODY WANTED THEIR JOBS PROTECTED. FROM COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS TO COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, EVERYBODY THOUGHT THIS WAS A USELESS UNDER