1 CHARTER REVIEW BOARD 08/10/00 **NOTIFICATION: **This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the following **meeting. It should be used for informational purposes only. **This document has not been edited; therefore, there may be **additions, deletions, or words that did not translate. >>JAN SMITH: BOARD MEMBERS, IF YOU WILL PLEASE COME TO ORDER, I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME EVERYONE TO THE AUGUST 10, 2000 MEETING OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. MARY LOU TUTTLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> MAY WE HAVE THE ROLL CALL, PLEASE? >> MR. AMBLER? HERE, MR. BALES? HERE, MR. BALLARD? HERE, MR. BEDKE? HERE. MR. BELTRAN? MR. HURLEY? HERE. MR. LABOUR? HERE. MS. LASHER? HERE. MS. SMITH? HERE. MS. TUTTLE? HERE. MR. WHITE? HERE. MS. WILLIAMS? HERE. >> YOU HAVE A QUORUM. >> JAN SMITH: BOARD MEMBERS, WE HAVE MINUTES FROM TWO MEETINGS WE NEED TO CONSIDER AND HAVE APPROVED. THE FIRST IS FROM JULY 16TH. IS THERE A MOTION? A MOTION BY MR. WHITE AND A SECOND BY MR. HURLEY TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF JULY 13TH. ALL IN FAVOR, TO APPROVE THE MOTION, SAY AYE? MOTION PASSED. ALSO THE MINUTES FROM JULY 27TH. ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONS OR CORRECTIONS? MOVE TO APPROVE. I HAVE A MOTION FROM MR. HURLEY. AND A SECOND FROM DEE WILLIAMS. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. THANK YOU. BOARD MEMBERS, THERE HAS BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT OUR LENGTHY MEETINGS AND OUR GROWLING TUMMIES SO THERE HAS BEEN A REQUEST MADE THAT WE, AFTER THE MEETING, EACH PERSON MAY CONTRIBUTE A COUPLE DOLLARS TO BARBARA MERRITT, AND SHE WILL ARRANGE TO HAVE EITHER SANDWICHES OR PIZZA OR SOMETHING FOR US IN THE BACK AT OUR BREAK AT 7:30, SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DINE AT 7:30, EVERY OTHER WEEK, PLEASE MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO BARBARA MERRITT: USUALLY AT THE BEGINNING OF OUR MEETING -- AND I DON'T HAVE A LIST TONIGHT -- IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD? MS. MERRITT, DO YOU HAVE A SIGN-IN SHEET BACK THERE? AND I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT REPRESENTATIVE LES MILLER COULD NOT JOIN US TONIGHT. HE HAD A CHANGE IN PLANS. WE ARE EXPECTING SENATOR HARGRETT AND REPRESENTATIVE RUDY BRADLEY. PLEASE, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES. PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS JOYCE RUSSELL, AND I AM THE NEW AFRICAN-AMERICAN LIAISON FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY GOVERNMENT. I WAS INVITED TO SIT IN ON THIS MEETING BY GERALD WHITE, AND 2 I APPRECIATE THE INVITATION. OF COURSE, MY JOB IS TO OBSERVE THE PROCESS, AND GET THAT INFORMATION BACK OUT INTO THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, AND TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS. SO I JUST WANTED TO INTRODUCE MYSELF, AND I APPRECIATE THE INVITATION. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU FOR COMING. WE WILL BE ANXIOUS TO HEAR HOW WELL YOU ARE DOING AND WE ARE DOING REACHING THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY. THANK YOU, MS. RUSSELL. DO WE HAVE A LIST? WE HAVE NO SPEAKERS THAT HAVE SIGNED UP. NOW, IF THERE IS ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHES TO ADDRESS THE PLANNING COMMISSION ABOUT THE ISSUE FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING TONIGHT, THE AUDITOR, YOU CAN SPEAK NOW, OR YOU CAN HOLD YOUR COMMENTS FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> I RESPECTFULLY WANT TO ADDRESS THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, IF THEY WISH TO DO THAT. >> I APOLOGIZE. I MUST HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT JIM OUT THERE. TOO MANY YEARS OF THAT. YES, THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. MY APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE. I AM GLAD SOMEBODY DID. >> IT WOULD SAVE US FROM AMENDING THE MINUTES LATER. >> YES, THANK YOU. >> DID YOU SAY THAT WE COULD SPEAK NOW ABOUT THE AUDITOR ISSUE? >> YES. >> ONE OR THE OTHER. >> YES. >> BUT I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION. >> MADAM CHAIRMAN, I AM CURIOUS, GIVEN THE FACT WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING SPECIFICALLY ON THE REFERENDUM, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE TESTIMONY THAT'S GIVEN FOR THAT ISSUE IS INCLUDED IN THAT RECORD. WOULD THESE COMMENTS, IF THEY ARE GIVEN NOW, BE INCLUDED IN THAT RECORD, MARY HELEN? >> I THINK THEY CAN BE. MS. CAMPBELL? SOME PEOPLE DID NOT WANT TO STAY THE WHOLE EVENING. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I'M SURE THEIR COMMENTS SHOULD BE PART OF THE RECORD. >> JAN SMITH: WHAT WE CAN DO IS HAVE HER COMMENTS INCLUDED WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING COMMENTS. ALSO, ANYONE THAT WRITES A LETTER CAN HAVE THE LETTER PUT INTO THE RECORD AS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, SO LONG AS 3 THEY HAVE GOTTEN IT DONE, OR, I WOULD ASSUME, IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS. >> MIMI ESIASON: I'M MS. ESIASON, REPRESENTING THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. WE OBJECT TO PLACING THE INTERNAL AUDITOR ON THE 2000 BALLOT. YOU HAVE FLOATED SOME TRIAL BALLOONS ABOUT CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT. YOU ARE CONSIDERING AS I UNDERSTAND IT CHANGING IT TO AN ELECTED ON SUBSEQUENT BALLOT. THE DECISION OF STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE MADE FIRST. EVEN THOUGH SUPPORTING THIS ISSUE, WE CAUTION THAT APPROXIMATELY TWO MONTHS DOES NOT GIVE CITIZENS THE TIME TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEIR ENERGY IS DIVERTED IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR WITH NAMES ON THE BALLOT. THERE IS ALSO A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE COULD BE A CHALLENGE TO THE RESULTS OF A BALLOT, IF YOU CHOOSE TO PUT ISSUES ON TWO DIFFERENT BALLOTS, AND WHETHER OR NOT PUTTING AN ISSUE ON THE BALLOT WOULD EFFECTIVELY WILL SKIP THIS COMMITTEE. SO WE DO OBJECT PUTTING IT ON THIS BALLOT. SECONDLY, WE DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS THE PLACE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF OF AN INTERNAL AUDITOR. THE CHARTER IS OUR CONTINUATION SUBSTITUTION, AS I STATED TO YOU BEFORE. IT SHOULD PROVIDE A BROAD FRAMEWORK FOR OUR GOVERNMENT. IT SHOULD NOT BE WEIGHTED DOWN WITH LEGISLATIVE ISSUES OR DETAILS OF GOVERNMENT. IT DOES NOT BELONG IN YOUR AGENDA. WE DO BELIEVE THAT FUNDING DECISIONS SHOULD FOLLOW POLICY DECISIONS, IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FISCAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY, AND EFFECTIVE FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT WITH THE EXPENDITURE OF TAX DOLLARS. WE BELIEVE THAT ALL EXPENDITURES SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH ECONOMIC, ENVIRONMENTAL, SOCIAL, AND OTHER GOALS. IF, AS STATED BY SOME OF THE SPEAKERS IN FAVOR OF THIS AMENDMENT, IT IS THE INTENT OF THE PROPOSAL TO ASSURE THAT FUNDING DECISIONS ARE BASED ON AND CONSISTENT WITH POLICY DECISIONS, WE AGREE WITH THAT INTENT. WE QUESTION, HOWEVER, WHETHER AN INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR IS A GOOD EXPENDITURE OF TAX DOLLARS OR IF IT IS A GOOD WAY TO ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL OF ENSURING THAT FUNDING DECISIONS FOLLOW POLICY DECISIONS. YOU HAVE ASKED THE ATTORNEY FOR AN OPINION AND I UNDERSTAND ONE HAS BEEN RENDERED THAT CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS CANNOT BE COVERED. IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHAT IS THE POINT? THEIR BUDGETS COMPRISE APPROXIMATELY 20% OF THE COUNTY'S OPERATING BUDGET. IF ONE ADDS OTHER AGENCIES NOT UNDER THE COUNTY COMMISSION'S SUPERVISION, ONE THIRD OF THE BUDGET WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM OVERSIGHT BY AN INTERNAL AUDITOR. 4 THE PERCENTAGE IS HIGHER IF ONE LOOKS AT THE CAPITAL BUDGET. UNDER THE CURRENT CHARTER, THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS, SHERIFF, AND PART OF THE CLERK'S OFFICE, ARE SUBJECT TO AUDIT. QUESTIONING THE PURPOSE OF THIS AMENDMENT, THE COUNTY COMMISSION CAN AND DOES HIRE OUTSIDE AUDITORS FOR PERFORMANCE AUDITS. UNDER THE CURRENT CHARTER SPECIFICALLY THE AUDITOR REPORTED DIRECTLY TO THEM. FLORIDA STATUTES NO. 125.01 STATES, AND SOME OF THIS I'M LEAVING OUT SOME WORDS IN BETWEEN, BUT I THINK I HAVE GOTTEN THE INTENT OF IT, AND YOU CAN CERTAINLY REFERENCE THE CHAPTER, THE LEGISLATIVE AND GOVERNING BODY OF THE COUNTY SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO EMPLOY AN INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTING FIRM, CONDUCT THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT, NOT FEWER THAN FIVE COPIES OF EACH COMPLETE AUDIT REPORT SHALL BE FILED WITH THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT AND MAINTAINED THERE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION. THE CLERK SHALL THEREUPON FORWARD ONE COMPLETE COPY TO THE AUDITOR GENERAL WHO SHALL RETAIN THE SAME AS PUBLIC RECORD FOR TEN YEARS FROM RECEIPT THEREOF. WE QUESTION THE PURPOSE OF YOUR AMENDMENT. ARE YOU ASKING QUESTIONS NOW? >> I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO TAKE QUESTIONS IF ANYONE HAS THEM. MS. LASHER? >> MS. LASHER: I WOULD LIKE SOME CLARIFICATIONS FROM THE COUNTY ATTORNEY ON THE COMMENT ABOUT CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS BEEN COVERED BY THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: GOOD EVENING, BOARD. I PREPARED A MEMORANDUM THAT ALL OF YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED, THAT DOES NOT STATE -- THE WAY THE CURRENT PROPOSAL IS DRAFTED, IT DOES NOT AFFECT THE CONSTITUTIONALS. IT IS NOT THAT YOU COULD NOT CHANGE THAT. I HAD PREPARED TO GIVE YOU A DISCUSSION OF THIS AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU CANNOT AFFECT THE CONSTITUTIONALS. AS IT'S DRAFTED, IT DOES NOT. AND I JUST OUTLINED SOME LEGAL CONCERNS IF YOU WANTED TO TRY TO AFFECT THEM WITHOUT PUTTING THEM UNDER THE CHARTER. BUT IF YOU WANT ME TO GO INTO THAT NOW, I COULD, OR I COULD WAIT UNTIL THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO EXPLAIN IT NOW, I THINK JUST FOR CLARITY, WHILE WE ARE ON THE TOPIC, IT WOULD BE GOOD. >> AS I SAID, THE DRAFT AS IT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN DOES NOT AFFECT THE CONSTITUTIONALS. THE LANGUAGE OF THE PROPOSAL SAYS THAT THE AUDITOR CAN CONDUCT A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR OF CHARTER GOVERNMENT, AND IN SECTION 1.02, AS WE POINTED OUT AT THE LAST MEETING, OUR 5 CHARTER EXCLUDES AND DOES NOT AFFECT THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. AS I POINTED OUT, THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAS THE AUTHORITY UNDER CHAPTER 125 TO REQUIRE THAT ANY ENTITIES THAT ARE FUNDED CONDUCT A PERFORMANCE AUDITOR BY AN INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTING FIRM, SO THERE'S A MECHANISM ALREADY IN PLACE TO HAVE THIS DONE. THE BOTTOM LINE OF THE MEMO IS, AS IT'S WRITTEN NOW, DOESN'T AFFECT THEM, AND THAT IS CLEAN, IF YOU WISH. OR, UNDER THE CONSTITUTION IN ARTICLE 8, YOU CAN ABOLISH THEIR OFFICES AND PUT THEM UNDER THE CHARTER. SOME OTHER COUNTIES HAVE DONE THIS. THEY HAVE INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITORS WHO CAN CONDUCT THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT. IF YOU GO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THOSE TWO EXTREMES, PUTTING THEM UNDER THE CHARTER OR NOT AFFECTING THEM, THERE ARE A FEW LEGAL CONCERNS THAT I RAISED IN MY MEMO. THE FIRST IS, AS WE KNOW, YOU CANNOT BE INCONSISTENT WITH GENERAL LAW. CHAPTER 125, WHICH SPEAKS TO PERFORMANCE AUDITS OF ANY ENTITY FUNDING BY THE BOARD, FIRST REQUIRES THAT IT BE CONDUCTED BY AN INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTING FIRM. PERHAPS THE INTERNAL AUDITOR COULD HIRE SOMEBODY THAT'S AN INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTING FIRM TO DO THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD. ALSO, BY THE LANGUAGE OF THE STATUTE, IT ALLOWS THE BOARD TO REQUIRE THAT THE ENTITY CONDUCT A PERFORMANCE AUDIT, WHICH ALL IT DOES IS REQUIRE THAT IT BE DONE AND PUT THE MONEY UP. I ALLUDED TO AN EXAMPLE WHERE WE WERE GOING TO AUDIT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE. WE NEVER WENT THROUGH WITH THAT. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT THE FACTS WERE AROUND THAT, BUT IT WAS GOING TO BE DONE BY THE SHERIFFS, AND THEY DO THE SCOPE OF THE AUDIT. IF THE BOARD DOES DESIRE TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE OF THE PROPOSAL, WITHOUT PUTTING THEM UNDER THE CHARTER, BUT CHANGE THE LANGUAGE SO THAT THEY DO HAVE SOME AUDITING OVER THE CONSTITUTIONALS, I HAVE PROVIDED SOME SUGGESTED LANGUAGE. I JUST WANT YOU TO BE AWARE THERE IS SOME RISK, IF YOU GO INTO THIS MIDDLE OF THE GROUND GRAY AREA. MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO LEAVE IT AS IT IS, OR TO CONSIDER PUTTING THE CONSTITUTIONALS UNDER THE AUDIT. THE OTHER THING THAT I RAISED, AND I HAVE AN ATTACHMENT FROM CATHY TETI -- SHE WILL BE HERE. SHE IS OUR FINANCIAL ATTORNEY IN OUR OFFICE -- SHE WILL BE HERE AT 8 O'CLOCK IF YOU HAVE ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEYOND MY EXPERTISE -- BUT JUST RELATING TO THE WAY THE BUDGETS ARE PREPARED AND THE POWER THE BOARD HAS, CURRENTLY, AND IN GENERAL LAW, OF AMENDING THEIR BUDGETS, THAT'S EXPLAINED IN A MEMO. 6 THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS, THE BOARD HAS, AT A PUBLIC HEARING, PRELIMINARY POWER TO AMEND HER BUDGET. SOME OF THE CONSTITUTIONALS, SUCH AS THE TAX COLLECTOR, THERE IS VERY LITTLE ROOM FOR THE BOARD TO AMEND THEIR BUDGET. CERTAINLY WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A PERFORMANCE AUDIT, THE BOARD DOESN'T HAVE ANY REAL POWER, SHORT OF PUTTING THEM UNDER THE CHARTER GOVERNMENT. IF THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT IDENTIFIED THINGS THAT SHOULD BE DONE, THE BOARD DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO COMMAND THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL DO THOSE THINGS, SHORT OF PUTTING THEM UNDER THE CHARTER. I JUST WANTED THE BOARD TO BE AWARE OF SOME OF THE MIDDLE GROUND, AND CERTAINLY, TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT THAT THE BOARD NEEDS TO DECIDE IF THEY WANT TO GO FORWARD WITH THE PROPOSAL, AND IF THEY ARE GOING TO INCLUDE THE CONSTITUTIONALS OR NOT. SHORT OF THAT, IF THERE IS ANY QUESTIONS, I CAN ATTEMPT TO ANSWER FOR YOU, AND IF THERE IS MORE QUESTIONS OF A TECHNICAL NATURE, CATHY WILL BE HERE AT 8 O'CLOCK. >> MR. WILKES? >> MR. WILKES: JUST ONE POINT OF CLARIFICATION: UNDER THE CURRENT PROCEDURE, THE COUNTY COMMISSION HAS THE AUTHORITY TO HIRE OR REQUEST AN INTERNAL AUDIT. CORRECT? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: PERFORMANCE AUDIT, YES. >> MR. WILKES: OKAY. UNDER THE CURRENT PROCEDURE, WHO WOULD THE AUDITOR BE REPORTING TO? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: THE WAY THAT I BELIEVE IT WORKS, THE COUNTY WOULD REQUIRE A CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER TO HAVE A PERFORMANCE AUDIT DONE, AND THE COUNTY PAYS FOR IT. THERE IS SOME STATUTORY GUIDELINES AS TO WHEN THEY FINISH IT, THEY DELIVER IT TO THE CLERK OR TO THE BOARD. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT PROCESS WOULD BE FOLLOWED. IT'S NOT SET UP SPECIFICALLY IN THAT SECTION. BUT THERE'S A PROCESS FOR WHO -- IT CERTAINLY WOULD AT SOME POINT BECOME A PUBLIC RECORD AND A COPY BE GIVEN TO THE BOARD. >> DANNY WILKES: AT SOME POINT, BUT INITIALLY THE REPORT WOULD NOT GO BACK TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION. IS THAT CORRECT? >> I'M NOT SURE. THE AUDITOR WOULD CONDUCT IT. >> IF YOU WILL FORGIVE ME A MINUTE. I THINK IT IS IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE AS TO HOW THAT AUDIT IT CARRIED OUT. AND WHEN THEY DO THE AUDIT, THE DEPARTMENT OR AGENCY THAT IS BEING AUDITED, THEY HAVE A WAY OF PUTTING TOGETHER A SMALL COMMITTEE THAT THE REPORTS COME BACK TO, AND THEN, WHEN THE DRAFT IS READY, THAT COMMITTEE REVIEWS THE DRAFT WITH THE AUDITOR, AND THEN AFTER THAT PROCESS IS COMPLETED, THE FINAL DRAFT IS WRITTEN, AND THE FINAL DRAFT GOES TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. 7 >> MADAM CHAIR? GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE DO HAVE AN 8 O'CLOCK PUBLIC HEARING, PEOPLE MIGHT BE COMING DOWN HERE AT 8 O'CLOCK. I THINK THAT WE ARE GETTING BEYOND THE CLARIFICATION OF THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED, AND I AM UNCOMFORTABLE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION THAT I THINK WOULD BE OPEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE HERE AT 8. >> JAN SMITH: YES. IF THIS NEEDS TO CONTINUE, THIS PART OF IT NEEDS TO CONTINUE DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS. MS. LASHER? >> DENISE LASHER: I WANTED TO MENTION, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION OF THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT OF THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT A YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF AGO. IF I RECALL THE DISCUSSION THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAD, SOME OF THE ITEMS WERE, ONE, WHO WAS PAYING FOR IT, WHICH I ASSUME IT'S THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, TO THE SCOPE OF WORK, AND THEN, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DRAFT REPORT. IS THAT A PUBLIC RECORD OR IS ONLY THE FINAL AUDIT REPORT A PUBLIC RECORD? SO SOME OF THOSE WERE OUTSTANDING AS ISSUES. THOSE WERE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT CAME UP IN THAT DISCUSSION, AND CONSEQUENTLY, THERE HAS NOT BEEN AN ORDER FOR PERFORMANCE AUDIT ORDERED FOR ANY OF THE CONSTITUTIONALS. >> MR. HURLEY, THEN MR. WHITE. >> DAVID HURLEY: OKAY, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MS. ESIASON. WOULD THOSE BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THOSE TO BE DONE -- >> JAN SMITH: LET ME SEE IF SHE WAS INTENDING TO STAY. WERE YOU INTENDING TO STAY FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING? >> MIMI ESIASON: I WAS INTENDING TO STAY UNTIL 9 O'CLOCK. >> DAVID HURLEY: I AGREE WITH STEVE. THESE QUESTIONS ARE REALLY GERMANE TO THAT PARTICULAR PART OF THE MEETING, AND SOME OF THE AUDIENCE MIGHT WANT TO COMMENT ON THOSE THINGS THAT GET ANSWERED IN THE PROCESS AND WE MIGHT BE CHASING OUR TAILS. >> JAN SMITH: I THINK WE WILL BE REPEATING IF WE DON'T. MR. WHITE? >>GERALD WHITE: IN LIEU OF WHAT MR. HURLEY SAID, I WILL HOLD MY QUESTION. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. MR. HURLEY HAS A LIST, SO YOU WILL HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS FOR A WHILE. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD FOR UP TO FIVE MINUTES, ABOUT ANY ISSUE THAT THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD IS CONSIDERING? >> WELL, BOARD MEMBERS, I DON'T KNOW -- I EXPECTED OUR GUEST TO BE HERE AT QUARTER AFTER, AND SINCE THEY ARE NOT HERE AT THIS TIME, PERHAPS SINCE MR. HIRE AND MR. HOSTLER ARE HERE, THE ONE ISSUE THAT WAS HELD OVER FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE LAST MEETING HAD TO DO WITH CHANGING THE WORDING IN THE 8 CHARTER AS IT RELATED TO THE CENSUS, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT I WENT BACK AND LOOKED IT UP IN THE CONSTITUTION, AND I THOUGHT I WROTE IT DOWN SOMEWHERE. THERE IS A PHRASE IN HERE THAT IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE PHRASE IN THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CHARTER THAT SAYS AFTER THE CENSUS IS DONE, THEN THE DISTRICTS WILL BE REAPPORTIONED. I BELIEVE IT IS MS. CAMPBELL'S OPINION -- AND WE CAN ASK HER, BUT SHE FELT THAT THE WORDING COULD ALSO BE INTERPRETED THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN NOW, OR WE CAN CLARIFY IT. SO IF, WHILE EVERYONE IS HERE, IF YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION JUST BRIEFLY, WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT. >> THAT WILL BE FINE. >> JAN SMITH: OKAY. MS. CAMPBELL? >> I THINK WE NEED TO GET HER A CHAIR UP HERE. >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: WHAT I HAD SAID LAST MEETING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE WAS IN 120 DAYS AFTER THE CERTIFICATION OF THE FEDERAL DEC-ANNUAL CENSUS. THERE WERE SEVERAL POINTS RAISED. SOME POINT AFTER THE NUMBERS GET TO THE STATE AND GET TO THE COUNTY, THERE COULD BE A LEGAL CHALLENGE INTERPOSED DURING THAT TIME AND OBVIOUSLY 120 DAYS COULD PASS BY BEFORE WE EACH RECEIVE THE NUMBERS TO START THE REAPPORTIONMENT. MY OPINION IS THIS COULD BE EASILY READ AS TO WHEN WE RECEIVED, WHEN THEY ARE CERTIFIED TO THE COUNTY. I DO NOT BELIEVE IF SOMEBODY CHALLENGED OUR LACK OF REAPPORTIONING, A JUDGE WOULD HOLD US TO SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO ADHERE TO. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT IF WE HAD A PROPOSAL ON THE BALLOT WE COULD NOT CLARIFY THIS FURTHER IF IT WAS THE DESIRE OF THE CHARTER TO DO SO. >> JAN SMITH: BOARD MEMBERS, DO YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM MR. HOSTLER? ARE YOU COMFORTABLE? MR. HOSTLER, DO YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THIS AGAIN? YOU DON'T? WONDERFUL. MR. HUNTER, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD? NO. THERE IS NOTHING TO BE ADDED. MR. WHITE? >> GERALD WHITE: I HAVE A DIFFERENT ISSUE FOR MR. HUNTER. RELATED TO THE WORK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID, THE PAST CHARTER REVIEW BOARDS. >> JAN SMITH: CAN WE HOLD THAT JUST UNTIL WE FINISH THIS ONE? >>GERALD WHITE: SURE. >> JAN SMITH: THEN I WILL COME BACK TO YOU. SO I THINK, BOARD MEMBERS, REMEMBERING ALWAYS THAT THE NUMBER OF ISSUES YOU PUT ON A BALLOT, THE NUMBER OF THINGS YOU CHANGE, WILL INFLUENCE PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO WANT TO READ AND UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR POSITION IS. DO YOU ALL WANT TO CLARIFY THIS OR DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE IT TO INTERPRETATION, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA? 9 IT WILL REQUIRE A CHARTER CHANGE IF YOU WANT TO PROPOSE THAT. >> WHAT WOULD THE CHANGE BE, I MEAN THE EXACT WORDING? >> JAN SMITH: MS. CAMPBELL, DO YOU HAVE EXACT WORDING FOR THAT? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: NO, I WAS PREPARING, PLANNING TO COME BACK TO YOUR NEXT MEETING WITH SOME WORDING. WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST, THOUGH, IS TO ADD SOME WORDING TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE TIME CLOCK DOESN'T START RUNNING UNTIL THE COUNTY RECEIVES THE FINAL NUMBERS, WHETHER THERE IS LEGAL CHALLENGE TO THE NUMBERS OR SOME DELAY IN THE NUMBERS GETTING TO US. AGAIN, I THINK YOU CAN READ THE LANGUAGE THAT WAY NOW, BUT IF I DID PROPOSE NEW LANGUAGE, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD GO WITH IT. >> MS. CAMPBELL, IF YOU JUST ADDED THE WORDS, WITHIN 120 DAYS AFTER THE RECEIPT OF THE CERTIFICATION, WOULD THAT SOLVE THE PROBLEM >> SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. >> IT WOULD JUST BE INTERJECTING A FEW WORDS THERE. >> RECEIPT OF THE FINAL CERTIFICATION? >> RIGHT, WHICH WOULD IMPLY IF THERE WAS A JUDICIAL CHALLENGE, THAT THE CLOCK WOULD NOT RUN UNTIL THAT IS FINALLY DECIDED. >> MR. HURLEY, THEN MR. WHITE? >> DAVID HURLEY: WELL, FOR ONE THING, THIS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE IN EFFECT IN TIME FOR THE CENSUS COMING UP. >> RIGHT >> DAVID HURLEY: SO IT IS KIND OF A MOOT ISSUE AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME. IT'S SOMETHING WE COULD TAKE UP AFTERWARDS AND DECIDE IF WE WANT TO TAKE UP SPACE ON THE BALLOT FOR SOMETHING THAT OUR ATTORNEYS TOLD US IS FAIRLY CLEAR, OR IF WE WANTED TO DEAL WITH IT SOME OTHER WAY. I TEND TO AGREE. I AM NEITHER A JUDGE NOR AN ATTORNEY -- GLAD I'M NOT A JUDGE -- BUT I JUST CAN'T SEE HOW -- EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT, YOU HAD TO CONFORM TO IT. THERE HAVE BEEN STRANGE THINGS HAPPENING, BUT I JUST DON'T SEE THAT. MY QUESTION WOULD BE, IF THE CHANGE WERE AS SIMPLE AS, FOR EXAMPLE, PUTTING IN THERE, RECEIPT OF THE FINAL CERTIFICATION? OKAY? THAT'S THE ONLY WORD CHANGE -- LET'S SAY THAT WERE PROPOSED TONIGHT BY MOTION IN AN OPEN-AIR PUBLIC HEARING, WORD CHANGE. >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: WE HAVE TO HAVE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS AND THEY HAVE TO BE NOTICED, AND THE PUBLIC HEARINGS HAVE TRADITIONALLY BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE NEWSPAPER. BEAR IN MIND THAT BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BY VOTE CAN PUT SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL A GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT. 10 IF THEY THOUGHT A CHANGE WAS NEEDED, THEY COULD HAVE A SPECIAL ELECTION OR PUT IT ON A SPECIAL BALLOT IN MARCH. IT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT. >> THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED, THOUGH, WITH HOLDING ANY KIND OF A SPECIAL ELECTION. IT MAKES SENSE TO DO IT IN AN ELECTION WHEN YOU HAVE EVERYBODY THERE AND AT A TIME WHEN IT WILL BE RELEVANT. IT WON'T BE RELEVANT IN ANOTHER TEN YEARS. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT IF WE HAVE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS THAT HAVE TO BE NOTICED, WE HAVE TO DRAFT A PROPOSAL, COME BACK WITH A RESOLUTION. >> ALL OF THEM HAVE TO GO TO JUSTICE FOR A PRECLEARANCE, DON'T THEY? >> TO PRECLEAR THE DATE, YES >> AND THAT LAST DATE CUT-OFF IS THE END OF SEPTEMBER, I THOUGHT. >> NO, WE ARE COMING TO 60 DAYS FOR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PRECLEARANCE. >> END OF AUGUST. >> JAN SMITH: MR. HURLEY MADE A COMMENT THAT IT CAN BE ON ANY ELECTION. IT COULD BE ON A SPECIAL ELECTION. >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: THAT IS SECTION 8 OF YOUR CHARTER. >> JAN SMITH: 5-2 VOTE. >> DAVID HURLEY: THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO GO TO THE SAME PROCESS. TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, HAVE IT SUBMITTED TO JUSTICE, AND HAVE IT PUT ON THE BALLOT THAT WAY. IS THAT CORRECT? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: YES. >> JAN SMITH: MR. WHITE, MR. LABOUR, THEN MS. WILLIAMS. >> GERALD WHITE: I WOULD LIKE TO BE IN SYNC WITH THE OTHER COUNTIES IN THE STATE SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT OTHER COUNTIES ARE DOING AS FAR AS REDRAWING LINES AS FAR AS THEIR COUNTY DISTRICT IS CONCERNED. >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: IT IS IN THE CONSTITUTION AS TO WHEN THEY HAVE TO DO IT, ALL COUNTIES. SO THAT DOESN'T CHANGE. THE FACT THAT WE REWORDED IT IN OUR CHARTER SO THAT THERE IS A CONFLICT NOW, SORT OF, IS SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION. >> GERALD WHITE: I STILL HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS PRECLEARANCE. I DON'T KNOW. MAYBE I WAS TOLD THE WRONG INFORMATION. ALTHOUGH IT HAS TO GO THROUGH A PRECLEARANCE, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD CAN PLACE SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CAN SAY, WELL, IT DOESN'T FIT. YOU CAN'T USE IT. PULL IT. THAT'S THE IMPRESSION THAT I WAS UNDER. >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: NO, THE WHOLE REASON BEHIND SECTION 5 PRECLEARANCE IS TO GET THINGS BEFORE THE 11 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BEFORE THE VOTERS GO VOTE ON IT, ON REFERENDA AND BALLOT LANGUAGE, AND THE DATES OF THE ELECTION, SO YOU ARE REQUIRED TO, BEFORE YOU AFFECT THE CHANGE IN VOTING, WHICH WOULD BE PUTTING SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT, TO HAVE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PRECLEAR IT. >> GERALD WHITE: OKAY. >> JAN SMITH: THE WORDING FROM THE CONSTITUTION IS, EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE PROVIDED BY COUNTY CHARTER. THE GOVERNING BODY OF EACH COUNTY SHALL BE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COMPOSED OF 5 OR 7 MEMBERS SERVING STAGGERED TERMS FOR FOUR YEARS. AFTER EACH EVERY-TEN-YEAR CENSUS THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SHALL DIVIDE THE DISTRICTS INTO CONTIGUOUS TERRITORIES AS NEARLY EQUAL IN POPULATION AS PRACTICAL. IT JUST SAYS AFTER THE CENSUS. DOESN'T GIVE ANY TIME FRAME WHATSOEVER. THAT IS ALL THE COUNTIES WOULD HAVE TO ABIDE BY THAT, AND WE DO. WE SORT OF GAVE OURSELVES A TIME LIMIT IN WHICH TO GET IT DONE, AND NOW IT MAY BE PROBLEMATIC. >> GERALD WHITE: IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH OUR CHARTER, THEN IT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED. AND WE NEED TO TAKE THE NECESSARY STEPS TO DO THAT. REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN MAKE THIS PARTICULAR BALLOT OR NOT. WE NEED TO PROCEED, AND CORRECT THE CHARTER TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE STATE CONSTITUTION. >>N STEVE LABOUR: OUR ATTORNEY JUST TOLD US THAT IT IS NOT IN CONFLICT, AND THAT AS SHE READ IT, SHE FEELS IT IS VERY DEFENSIBLE THE WAY IT STATES, THAT IF IT WAS CHALLENGED, THAT THE COUNTY WOULD PREVAIL. I THINK WE COULD ADD A LOT OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGE TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY IN OUR MIND CLEAR BUT I DON'T THINK IT WARRANTS US TO SPEND THE MONEY FOR A HURRY-UP-SPECIAL TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS TO ADD "CLARIFICATION WORDS" SINCE OUR ATTORNEY HAS ALREADY STATED THAT AS ITS WORDED PRESENTLY, IT IS DEFENSIBLE. I WOULD SUGGEST WE PUT IT ON OUR PENDING CALENDAR TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AT A LATER TIME. IT DOESN'T WARRANT THE KIND OF EXPENSE WILL IT WOULD TAKE TO BRING IT TO BALLOT THIS NOVEMBER. >> IF YOU DELETE ANY WORD IN THIS 4.06, THAT REQUIRES GOING TO A BALLOT, THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSION DOESN'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO BRING THIS INTO CONFORMANCE WITH STATE LAW? >> NO, BUT THE COUNTY COMMISSION COULD PUT IT ON A BALLOT. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THEY CAN'T JUST CHANGE IT. YOU KNOW, YOU COULD PROBABLY GET A LEGAL OPINION AND ATTACH IT TO YOUR CHARTER. >> I AGREE WITH STEVE, THEN. IT SAYS, AFTER YOU GET THE CENSUS. 12 I THINK 120 DAYS IS SUPERFLUOUS AND LIKE YOU SAY -- HAS IT EVER BEEN CHALLENGED? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. >> IF BY SOME CHANCE IT DOES, YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH SOMETHING YOU DON'T HAVE. I SAY LEAVE IT ALONE. >> JAN SMITH: I THINK, BOARD MEMBERS, WE WILL HOLD IT TO A LATER-DAY DISCUSSION. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO RAISE IT. WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF SUGGESTING TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THAT IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT ON A BALLOT, IT MIGHT ALSO BE IN THEIR PURVIEW TO DO SUCH A THING, SO WE CAN HOLD THAT. DID SENATOR HARGRETT ARRIVE? IS THERE ANYONE ELSE HERE WHO WANTS TO SPEAK IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD BEFORE WE GET INTO OTHER MATTERS? >> BARBARA MERRITT: I GOT HOLD OF SENATOR HARGRETT, HE'S CAUGHT IN TRAFFIC. >> JAN SMITH: I WILL REORDER THIS AGENDA TO USE SOME OF THIS SPACE HERE. WHY DON'T YOU GIVE YOUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S REPORT? >> (SENATOR HARGRETT ARRIVED.) >> JAN SMITH: SENATOR HARGRETT, WALK RIGHT ON UP TO THE PODIUM. DON'T STOP. WE ARE SORRY YOU HAD DIFFICULTY IN THE TRAFFIC. MAYBE YOU WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT IN THE FUTURE. WE ARE ANXIOUS TO HEAR WHAT YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT. WELCOME, SENATOR. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: THE SUBJECT, I TAKE IT, IS THE COUNTY? >> JAN SMITH: YOU MAY SPEAK ON ANY SUBJECT RELATING TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY GOVERNMENT THAT YOU WISH TO. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I THOUGHT I WOULD TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT COUNTY GOVERNMENT. I PROVIDED SOME LEADERSHIP THIS SESSION, AND I WILL TELL YOU MY STATED GOAL, WAS TO CAUSE A DEBATE IN THIS COMMUNITY OVER THE TYPE OF GOVERNANCE THAT PROBABLY WE OUGHT TO HAVE. I WILL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. I WAS INVOLVED IN CREATING THE CURRENT COUNTY GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE, AND THAT WAS DONE BECAUSE IT BECAME PRETTY CLEAR TO ALL THE CITIZENS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT OUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT WAS NOT REALLY EQUIPPED TO GOVERNO THIS FAST-GROWING COMMUNITY IN THIS MODERN ERA. WE HAD A COUNTY COMMISSION THAT WAS CREATED BACK WHEN IT WAS A RURAL COUNTY, AND EACH COMMISSIONER SORT OF LOOKED AFTER POTHOLES AND FIXED THE ROADS IN THEIR OWN DISTRICT. SINCE SERVING THE LEGISLATURE, IN THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS, AS YOU ARE PROBABLY AWARE, MOST PROGRAMS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL IN PEOPLE'S LIVES TODAY HAVE A FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL COMPONENT. INTERGOVERNMENTAL COOPERATION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND EXTREMELY CRITICAL. 13 TRANSPORTATION HAS REGULATIONS AND HAS FUNDING THAT ARE FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL. HUMAN SERVICE, AND REGULATIONS, AND FUNDING, FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL. ENVIRONMENTAL, THE SAME THING. SO MOST PROGRAMS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL IN PEOPLE'S LIVES HAVE A FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL COMPONENT. IT BECAME CLEAR TO THOSE OF US, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN THE SENATE, AND I THINK I CAN SAY THAT THE FEELING WAS UNANIMOUS, THAT OUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT, GIVEN ITS CURRENT STRUCTURE, WAS MORE DIFFICULT TO DO BUSINESS WITH THAN OTHER GOVERNMENTS IN LARGE URBAN COUNTIES AROUND THE STATE. THERE HAS BEEN A MOVEMENT TOWARDS EITHER GOING TO AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE -- AND WHETHER THAT BE COUNTY MAYOR OR WHETHER IT BE AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN, I DON'T MUCH -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE MUCH OF AN AGENDA ON WHAT IT OUGHT TO BE -- BUT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN DOING BUSINESS WITH THE OTHER COUNTIES REALIZE THAT THAT IS THE TREND. JACKSONVILLE, MIAMI, BROWARD COUNTY, THERE HAS BEEN AN ACTIVE DEBATE AND THERE WILL BE A CONTINUOUS DEBATE, I BELIEVE, IN THAT COMMUNITY, AND WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO FIND, THE DIFFERENCE IN DOING BUSINESS WITH THOSE GOVERNMENTS, OR THE CITY OF TAMPA, WHEN WE COULD CONTACT THE CITY AT ANY GIVEN TIME, OR CONTACT THOSE GOVERNMENTS AT ANY GIVEN TIME DURING THE LEGISLATIVE DEBATES -- AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE AWARE, THE ACTION IN THE LEGISLATURE CAN CHANGE FROM DAY TO DAY, FROM HOUR TO HOUR, FROM WEEK TO WEEK, AND UNLESS YOU ARE GET AN ANSWER ABOUT WHAT THE COUNTY'S POSITION IS OR WHAT THE CITY'S POSITION IS, YOU ARE UNABLE TO DO AN EFFECTIVE JOB OF REPRESENTING THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE COMMUNITY. AND WE WOULD FIND OURSELVES HAVING TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT WEEK, WHEN THE COMMISSION MET, AND EVEN AFTER THEY MET, SOMETIMES IT WASN'T CLEAR WHAT THE POSITION WAS, BECAUSE DIFFERENT MEMBERS WOULD CALL AND SAY, MAYBE THEY VOTED THAT WAY, BUT THAT WASN'T THEIR TRUE POSITION, AND SO, WE JUST FELT LIKE IT WAS TIME FOR DEBATE IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND BECAUSE LAST TIME THE LEGISLATURE WAS INVOLVED IN CAUSING THAT DEBATE TO HAPPEN, WHEN WE GOT THIS CURRENT CHARTER, THE LEGISLATURE, IN THE SAME FASHION, FELT LIKE IT WAS TIME FOR DEBATE. WE FILED LEGISLATION AS A RESULT OF THAT LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVE. THE COUNTY COMMISSION APPOINTED A COMMITTEE, AND THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION APPOINTED A COMMITTEE. I WAS A MEMBER OF THAT COMMITTEE. WE SAT AROUND THE TABLE JOINTLY, AND HAMMERED OUT WHAT WE NOW HAVE AS OUR CURRENT CHARTER. I BELIEVE -- AS I TALKED YESTERDAY IN THE RULES MANAGEMENT STUDY COMMISSION, FLORIDA IS AN URBAN STATE. AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MAY TAKE ON THE GROUNDS OF WHETHER 14 WE ARE URBAN OR NOT, I THINK THE FACTS WOULD SAY THAT WE ARE AN URBAN STATE. WITHIN 20 MILES OF THE COAST, 80 PERCENT OF OUR PEOPLE LIVE. WE HAVE A SMALL LAND MASS. WE ARE ONE BIG URBAN AREA IN A COASTAL ZONE AND ACROSS THE CENTER OF THE STATE. I BELIEVE THAT IF WE ARE NOT ON TOP AND TIMELY WITH OUR INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS, WE CAN LOSE PARADISE. FLORIDA IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE. IT SELLS ITS NATURAL BEAUTY TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD TO COME AND VISIT HERE. THE ONLY THING, AS WE GROW -- AND I BELIEVE THAT THE GROWTH IS GOING TO CONTINUE -- AS WE GROW, IN THESE FAST-GROWING URBAN REGION, I BELIEVE THE ONLY ISSUE IS WHETHER WE ARE TIMELY AND EFFECTIVE IN MAKING THE INVESTMENTS, MAKING THE VERY DIFFICULT DECISIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED IN FAST-GROWING, URBAN AREAS, AND I DON'T BELIEVE OUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT IS EQUIPPED. NOT BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE. THEY ARE VERY NICE PEOPLE. SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THERE ARE MY FRIENDS. THEY ARE VERY NICE PEOPLE. BUT IN ORDER TO MAKE SOME OF THESE DIFFICULT DECISIONS, THERE HAS TO BE CENTRAL AUTHORITY AND CENTRAL ACCOUNTABILITY WITH THE EXECUTIVE FUNCTION, AND PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY KNOW WHO TO HOLD ACCOUNTABILITY IF WE DON'T MAKE THE TOUGH DECISIONS. NOW, FOR A LEGISLATIVE BODY, YOU CAN HOLD EACH PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR VOTE. BUT THAT EXECUTIVE POWER, YOU EITHER HAVE A COHESIVE BODY THAT PLAYS TEAM BALL ALL THE TIME ON EVERY OCCASION, ESPECIALLY ON IMPORTANT AND TOUGH ISSUES LIKE FUNDING INFRASTRUCTURE. AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE TEAM BALL ON THAT, THEN THE COMMUNITY CAN BE THE BIG LOSERS. AND ON THESE KIND OF ISSUES, SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE WON'T KNOW WHEN THEY ARE LOSING. THEY KNOW THEY HAVE LOST FIVE OR TEN YEARS LATER WHEN IT'S TOO LATE AND WE WE REALLY HAVE GRIDLOCK IN OUR TRANSPORTATION OR WE HAVE NOT FUNDED VERY WELL THE ENVIRONMENTAL INFRASTRUCTURE WE NEEDED AND WE HAVE POLLUTED OUR AREA, DEGRADED OUR WATER. SO I BELIEVE THE TIME HAS COME FOR DEBATE. NOW, I FILED LEGISLATION TO CREATE A COUNTY MAYOR. I WILL TELL YOU, MY INTENT WAS ONLY TO START THE DEBATE, BECAUSE WHAT WE DID WAS TAKE THE CHARTER AS IT NOW EXISTS, AND PUT IN THE COUNTY MAYOR. WE TRIED NOT TO MOVE ANY OF THE OTHER FURNITURE AROUND, BECAUSE WE KNEW IF WE MOVED THE FURNITURE AROUND, AND ANYBODY WAS OPPOSED TO IT, THEY WOULD NOT BE OPPOSED BASED ON THE MAYOR. 15 THEY WOULD BE OPPOSED BASED ON SOME OTHER ISSUE. AND I SAT AND LISTENED FOR THE COMMUNITY TO RESPOND, AND ON ALL OF THOSE ISSUES THAT THEY RESPONDED ON, SUCH IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION, SUCH AS CLARIFYING THE EPC, SUCH AS CLARIFYING SOME OF THOSE THINGS SUCH AS THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE ADMINISTRATOR. I HAD AMENDMENTS TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES SO THAT WE COULD CONTINUE AND HAVE A DEBATE. I CAN TELL YOU FROM MY CONVERSATION WITH MY OTHER COLLEAGUES, IT WAS THEIR INTENT AS WELL TO START THIS COMMUNITY TOWARDS A DEBATE. I BELIEVE THAT SINCE, IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, I HAVE BEEN HAVING EXTENSIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY, AND I CAN JUST TELL YOU, IT VALIDATES MY BELIEF THAT THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME CHANGES IN THE STRUCTURE. I THINK THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE FROM TALLAHASSEE. THE DEBATE CAN BE LED FROM TALLAHASSEE. BUT IT CAN'T BE PUT TOGETHER FROM TALLAHASSEE. IT'S GOT TO BE PUT TOGETHER AROUND A TABLE. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS IN THE PRIOR OCCASION WHEN WE ADDRESSED GOVERNANCE. BUT WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A VERY FAST-GROWING URBAN REGION, ONE OF THE FASTEST-GROWING REGIONS IN FLORIDA. INTERGOVERNMENTAL COOPERATION BETWEEN HILLSBOROUGH, PINELLAS, PASCO, AND MANATEE, IS VITAL FOR OUR NATURAL RESOURCES. IT'S VITAL FOR CLEAN AIR. IT'S VITAL FOR TRANSPORTATION. AND IF WE DON'T HAVE THIS DEBATE, I THINK THE PEOPLE WILL BE THE LOSERS. I INTEND, ON THE ROSE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION, TO PROVIDE LEADERSHIP SO THAT, IF I HAD MY WAY, THERE WOULD BE A GREATER ROLE FOR GOVERNMENT ACTING REGIONALLY THROUGH VARIOUS MECHANISMS, TO MAKE SURE WE CAN HANDLE THE GROWTH. I THINK THE PEOPLE ARE READY FOR A DISCUSSION OF THIS, AND IF -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LEGISLATURE WILL DO (ROADS MANAGEMENT COMMISSION) BUT OVER IN PINELLAS COUNTY LAST YEAR, THEY HAD A CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, AND THEY WERE VERY WEIGHTY ISSUES THAT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN FORWARDED TO THE PEOPLE, BECAUSE IT REQUIRES A SUPERMAJORITY. THEY DID NOT FORWARD THOSE WEIGHTY ISSUES TO THE PEOPLE. AND WHEN IT CAME TO THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION, THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION DECIDED IT WOULD FORWARD THOSE ISSUES TO THE PEOPLE. AND PINELLAS HAD A DIFFERENT ARRANGEMENT WHERE IT HAD TO GO THROUGH THE DELEGATION. BUT I THINK THIS ISSUE IS SO IMPORTANT, THE DEBATE OF THIS KIND ON GOVERNANCE IS SO IMPORTANT, THAT IF THIS BODY DOESN'T DO THEIR JOB, I BELIEVE THAT THE PEOPLE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY TO CAUSE THE DEBATE TO HAPPEN. 16 AND I THINK THAT IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AROUND A TABLE, WHERE IT CAN BE TAILOR-MADE TO FIT THIS COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT GET SOMETHING THAT IS NOT WELL PERCEIVED, WELL CONCEIVED, WELL CONSIDERED. AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT EXAMPLES OF HOW YOU CAN CREATE A CENTRAL EXECUTIVE. YOU CAN DO IT THE WAY MIAMI DID IT, WITH A COUNTY MAYOR. YOU CAN DO IT THE WAY ORLANDO DID IT, WITH A COUNTY CHAIRMAN. I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH. THEY ARE HAPPY WITH, I THINK, A LOT OF THE CURRENT SERVICES -- LAW ENFORCEMENT, INCLUDED -- BUT I WOULD URGE THAT FULL, FAIR, CONSIDERED DEBATE TAKE PLACE ON THE GOVERNANCE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. I CAN JUST TELL YOU THAT BASED ON THE LAST TWO MONTHS, PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING IS BROKEN, AND IF YOU AGREE WITH THEM, YOU MIGHT WRITE A PRESCRIPTION TO FIX IT. I'M OPEN FOR ANY QUESTIONS. >>JAN SMITH: SENATOR HARGRETT, REPRESENTATIVE RUDY BRADLEY IS ALSO HERE. I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE COMMENTS TO THE BOARD, AND I WOULD LIKE TO GO AROUND THE TABLE AND LET PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS OF EITHER OR BOTH OF YOU. CAN YOU STAY, SENATOR HARGRETT? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: CERTAINLY. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GETTING CAUGHT IN TRAFFIC ALSO THIS EVENING TO BE HERE WITH US. WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR COMMENTS ON HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY'S LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT. >> REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY: IT IS GOOD TO BE HERE. AND I WISH TO SAY I ASK FOR YOUR FORGIVENESS BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN USING MY VOICE A LOT. I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND ME. IF YOU DON'T, ASK ME TO REPEAT MYSELF. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS. AND THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING AN AMENDMENT, A GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, THAT LENDS ITSELF TO BE CLOSER TO THE PEOPLE, ONE THAT IS LESS EXPENSIVE IN TERMS OF INDIVIDUALS BEING ABLE TO PUT FORTH A CANDIDACY AND PAY FOR THAT CANDIDACY, AND GET THEIR MESSAGE OUT TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE SEEKING TO REPRESENT. ALSO, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT. I WILL OUTLINE MY SUBJECT MATTER. I WILL ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE OF HOW SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS WILL OPEN THE PROCESS UP, AND, AS A RESULT, CREATE A GOVERNMENT THAT I FEEL WOULD BE MORE REPRESENTATIVE, AND DO WHAT WE ALL WANT TO DO, AND THAT IS, HAVE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT REPRESENTATION HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT IS DIVERSE, ONE THAT IS OPEN, AND ONE THAT IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE. 17 THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, AND ACROSS THIS STATE, AND IN PARTICULAR, WITHIN THIS PARTICULAR AREA. I HEARD SENATOR HARGRETT MENTION A FEW MINUTES AGO ABOUT A CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION PROCESS THAT OCCURRED IN PINELLAS COUNTY, AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PROCESS. AND HOPEFULLY, WHAT YOU ALL WOULD DO IS TO LEARN FROM SOME OF THESE PAST EXPERIENCES THAT HAVE HAPPENED WITHIN THIS REGION AS IT RELATES TO THIS WHOLE PROCESS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A TREMENDOUS TASK, AND YOU ALSO, AS A RESULT OF HAVING THAT TASK, HAVE A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOME GOOD, EFFICIENT REFORMS THAT ARE NECESSARY FOR US TO HAVE A GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY IN THIS AREA, IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, THAT FLOWS VERY SMOOTHLY, AND ONE THAT ALLOWS FOR THE CITIZENS TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS. YOU KNOW, SOME FOLKS SAY SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS ARE BAD BECAUSE THEY CREATE POOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT. I THINK IT'S JUST TO THE CONTRARY. WHEN YOU HAVE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS YOU HAVE A SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE THAT IS, AS I SAID, CLOSER TO THE PEOPLE, AND ONE THAT ALLOWS FOR US TO RECEIVE MORE CITIZEN INPUT, AND ONE THAT ALLOWS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE WELL FINANCED -- THE ABILITY TO COLLECT A LOT OF MONEY -- TO PARTICIPATE IN GOVERNMENT. AND THAT'S ALL WHAT AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IS ABOUT, ALL ABOUT PARTICIPATORY GOVERNMENT. NOW, WHEN YOU SAY -- SOME PEOPLE ARGUE THAT SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS CREATE WAR POLITICS. THAT'S NOT TRUE. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE YOU HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY, BASICALLY, ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THE ONLY PERSON THAT WE ALL VOTE FOR IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE PRESIDENT. OTHERWISE, WITHIN EACH STATE AND WITHIN THE FEDERAL PROCESS, WE ALL VOTE FOR TWO SENATORS, AND WITHIN EACH STATE, THEY ALL REPRESENT FOR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES. THAT MEANS THAT AN AT-LARGE SYSTEM IS NOT VIEWED AS VERY, VERY EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE, NATIONALLY, FOR GOOD REASON. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR US IN FLORIDA TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE IN MONTANA, BECAUSE, FIRST OF ALL, WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE LOCAL GEOGRAPHICAL ISSUES ARE IN MONTANA. SO HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COUNTY IN TERMS OF THE VARIOUS GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONS, THERE ARE SOME SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES, WHEN YOU COMPARE EAST HILLSBOROUGH WITH WEST HILLSBOROUGH, AND NORTH HILLSBOROUGH WITH SOUTH HILLSBOROUGH. BUT THERE ARE ALSO SOME THINGS THAT ARE VERY, VERY SIMILAR. BUT IT'S BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENCES THAT I FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS LENDS ITSELF TO MORE EFFICIENT AND MORE EFFECTIVE GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT THAT IS CLOSER TO THE PEOPLE SO THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND AND MORE EFFECTIVELY 18 REPRESENT WHAT THOSE GEOGRAPHICAL DIFFERENCES ARE. SO THE QUESTION I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU ALL IS, WHAT ARE YOU ALL WILLING TO DO IN ORDER TO HAVE A SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE SUCH AS THE ONE I JUST DESCRIBED? HOPEFULLY WHAT YOU ALL WOULD DO IS NOT DO WHAT SENATOR HARGRETT MENTIONED HAPPENED OVER IN PINELLAS COUNTY WHERE A LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION LOOKED AT WHAT WAS GOING ON, RECEIVED CITIZEN INPUT AND WHAT WE WOUND UP DOING WAS PUTTING FORTH A BILL BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE TO CREATE THE PROCESS THROUGH A REFERENDUM. AND I CAN TELL YOU, THE REFERENDUM WAS SUCCESSFUL. BUT THE FOLKS WHO FOUGHT AGAINST THAT REFERENDUM DIDN'T THINK THAT THE REFERENDUM HAD A CHANCE. HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, IT PASSED BY 23 VOTES. BUT, WAIT A MINUTE. I WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THAT. IT PASSED WITH VERY LITTLE PUSHING OR VERY LITTLE ADVERTISING, THE ADVERTISING BEING DONE IN FAVOR OF SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS. ALL OF THE OPPOSITION, THE OPPOSITION WAS WELL FUNDED, THE OPPOSITION PUT OUT A LOT OF INFORMATION TO DEFEAT SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS. BUT GUESS WHAT? WITHOUT HAVING SOMEONE REALLY PUSH VERY STRONGLY FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE, IT STILL PASSED BY A VERY FEW VOTES. TO ME THAT INDICATES THAT IF WE HAD HAD A WELL ORGANIZED, WELL FUNDED CAMPAIGN IN SUPPORT OF IT, IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE PASSED BY A LANDSLIDE, WHICH MEANS THAT THE PUBLIC IS INTERESTED IN HAVING GOVERNANCE OR GOVERNMENT THAT IS CLOSER, GOVERNMENT THAT GIVES THEM MORE ACCESS TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE REPRESENTING THEM, AND SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS DO JUST THAT. ALSO, WE HERE ALSO ARE TALKING ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS IN TERMS OF WHAT IT COSTS TO RUN THE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, YOU HAVE NATURAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, BECAUSE, AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT, YOU PROBABLY, AS AN INDIVIDUAL RUNNING FOR A SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT, WOULD NEED VERY LITTLE MONEY BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO WALK PRECINCTS, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE LOCAL MEDIA, AND LEAD THE CITY ORGANIZATIONS AND GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT, AND ALSO SELL YOURSELF AS A PERSON HO WOULD BE AN EFFECTIVE REPRESENTATIVE. WE'RE COMING INTO THE 21ST CENTURY. WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO DO TO REFORM GOVERNMENT TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS A BODY THAT ALLOWS US TO DEAL WITH THE MANY, MANY CONFLICTS, POLITICAL AND GOVERNANCE ISSUES, THAT WOULD ALLOW IS TO HAVE GOVERNANCE IN THE 21ST ACCEPTEDERY THAT WOULD BE REFLECTIVE IN TERMS OF WHERE WE ARE NEEDING TO GO TO BE PROGRESSIVE? 19 ANOTHER QUESTION IS, HOW IS IT WE CAN HAVE DIVERSITY WITHIN GOVERNMENT? I DON'T MEAN JUST ETHNIC OR RACIAL DIVERSITY, BUT HAVING A SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE THAT ALLOWS FOR GENDER DIVERSITY, RACIAL DIVERSITY AND ETHNIC DIVERSITY? HOW CAN WE HAVE INTELLECTUAL DIVERSITY AS IT RELATES TO GOVERNMENT? BECAUSE, REMEMBER, THE CORNERSTONE OF OUR DEMOCRACY IS OUR INTELECTUAL INPUT THAT WE RECEIVE FROM EVERY ASPECT OF OUR SOCIETY. THAT IS WHAT HAS MADE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY GREAT, WHAT HAS MADE OUR COUNTRY GREAT. AMERICA IS A VERY UNIQUE COUNTRY, IN THAT IT HAS A DEMOCRATIC FORM OF GOVERNMENT WHERE WE ELECT THOSE PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT US, AND WE ELECT THOSE PEOPLE WHO FIT AT THE TABLE, WHO BARGAIN, AND WHO PUT OUT ISSUES ON THE TABLE FOR FOR EVERYONE, AND HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE SO THAT EVERY ISSUE, EVERYONE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A VOICE IN GOVERNMENT. SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, IN MY OPINION, TO WIND THIS UP, MAKE FOR THE MOST EFFECTIVE SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, AND CERTAINLY THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, AS IT RELATES TO ELECTED, AND HAVING A VERY, VERY REPRESENTATIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, AND TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TO REFORM WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS. I'M NOT ASKING FOR YOU ALL TO REVOLUTIONIZE IT BUT JUST TO TWEAK IT AND REFORM IT SO THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE THAT WOULD ALLOW IS TO HAVE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT AS WE MOVE INTO THE NEXT MILLENNIUM AND I THINK SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS BY ALL MEANS WILL ACCOMPLISH THAT TASK AND I WILL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE >> JAN SMITH: MR. BRADLEY, WE ARE GOING TO GO AROUND THE TABLE AND WE WILL ALLOW THE BOARD MEMBERS TO ASK EITHER OR BOTH OF YOU QUESTIONS, SO IF YOU BOTH STAY BY THE PODIUM, IT WILL BE CROSS-FIRE HERE. MR. HURLEY HAS HIS HAND UP FIRST SO I WILL LET HIM GO. WE WILL PROCEED AROUND THAT WAY. >> DAVID HURLEY: I HAVE A QUESTION FOR BOTH OF YOU. FIRST OF ALL, YOU LOOKED GOOD ON TV THE OTHER NIGHT. AND TO SUPPORT WHAT YOU SAID, IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY LAST ELECTION, WE HAD A QUESTION ABOUT SCHOOL BOARDS GOING TO SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS HERE, AND ALL THE CAMPAIGNING WAS AGAINST IT IN THE PAST. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE IDEAL POPULATION OF A DISTRICT WOULD BE, AT THE COUNTY COMMISSION LEVEL? >> REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY: WHEN I SAY SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, I'M NOT A PROPONENT OF HAVING 25 OR 30 DISTRICTS. WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO IS TAKE A LOOK AT THE VARIOUS GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONS AND WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ESTABLISH AN ADEQUATE NUMBER OF DISTRICTS SO THAT WE HAVE DIVERSITY OF 20 DISCUSSION, BUT NOT A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE A PROCESS THAT IT WOULD BECOME TOO CUMBERSOME, BECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED, TOO MANY COOKS IN THE KITCHEN. BUT YOU CAN ALSO HAVE TOO FEW COOKS IN THE KITCHEN. SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO STUDY AND GET INFORMATION FROM AS A RESULT OF HAVING TO PROCESS AND COME UP WITH AN ADEQUATE NUMBER SO THAT WE CAN HAVE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT REPRESENTATION. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I WOULD JUST LIKE TO RESPOND THAT, ON THE SCHOOL BOARD SITUATION, I HAVE LED THAT FIGHT. TOOK ME TWO YEARS, BUT WE FINALLY GOT THAT ONE ON THE BALLOT, AND WE MADE THE ARGUMENT TO THE EDITORIAL BOARD THAT, ONE, IT WOULD ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY RAISED, THAT MEANS, IT WOULD LOWER THE COST OF CAMPAIGNING. IT WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR A PTA MEMBER TO DECIDE, I WOULD LIKE TO RUN FOR SCHOOL BOARD, AND I CAN GO OUT AND KNOCK ON THE DOORS TO GET MY MESSAGE OUT. AND THAT WOULD REDUCE THE COST OF CAMPAIGNING. I ALSO MADE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, AND THE SCHOOL BOARDS, COULD NOT VISIT EVERY SCHOOL. IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO VISIT EVERY SCHOOL AND KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND THAT THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON, WOULD BE ONE OF YOUR AREA SUPERINTENDENTS WHO COULD VISIT THE SCHOOLS. SO BY BREAKING THEM UP, YOU COULD MAKE EACH SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER ACCOUNTABLE, AND KNOWLEDGEABLE, ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE SCHOOLS THAT THEY WERE ACCOUNTABLE TO REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF. SO WE TOOK THAT MESSAGE, AND ON THE SOUND, SOLID SENSE, AND PEOPLE IN SOUTH HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY JOIN IN AND SUPPORTED THAT, BECAUSE THEY, TOO, FELT LIKE ACCOUNTABILITY WAS IMPORTANT. THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, HOWEVER, I HAVE SOME -- I THINK THAT A COUNTY COMMISSION OUGHT NOT TO BE A LEGISLATURE, AND SO IN DADE COUNTY, WHAT THEY HAVE IS THE LEGISLATURE. I THINK THAT'S TOO LARGE AND TOO UNWIELDY, SO I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE -- YOU COULD PICK A NUMBER, BUT I THINK THE NUMBER WOULD PROBABLY JUST COME FORTH FROM LOOKING AT THE NATURAL NEIGHBORHOOD BOUNDARIES. AND IT WOULD BE LARGE ENOUGH SO AS NOT TO BE A WARD. I'M A REPRESENTATIVE AND HAVE BEEN A REPRESENTATIVE OF A PRETTY DIVERSE, ETHNICALLY DIVERSE, DISTRICT, FOR 18 YEARS, AND I LIKE IT ETHNICALLY DIVERSE, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS YOU TO FOCUS ON THE BROAD ISSUES. SO I SAY, IT SHOULD NOT BE TOO SMALL, AND THE TWO ISSUES THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING GIVE YOU THE FLEXIBILITY. I MEAN PEOPLE GET CONCERNED ABOUT, OH, SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, WHEN THERE IS NO CENTRAL EXECUTIVE. ONCE YOU ADOPT THE EXECUTIVE POWER IN A COUNTY MAYOR OR COUNTY EXECUTIVE, I THINK IT ALLOWS YOU TO LATITUDE TO CREATE 21 YOUR LEGISLATIVE BRANCH SO THAT YOU CAN GET THE VALUABLE INPUT FROM ALL OF THE COMMUNITIES. TO ME, MAKING POLICY IS LIKE MAKING CEMENT. IT'S BEST TO HAVE THE PEOPLE THERE WHILE YOU'RE MIXING THAN TO MIX IT, LET IT SIT UP, AND PEOPLE GET OUT IN THE STREETS AND PROTEST. SO I THINK IT IS TOO SMALL NOW FOR A MILLION-PERSON COUNTY WITH FOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS. THAT'S 250,000. THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT A WARD, BUT IT'S PROBABLY MORE THAN A SMALL ESTIMATE IT'S MORE THAN MOST CITIES IN FLORIDA. SO I WOULD SAY THAT THE DISTRICTS ARE TOO LARGE NOW TO BE REALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GREAT DIVERSITY WITHIN THIS COUNTY. AND HOW MUCH SMALLER? YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS FIRST ELECTED TO THE LEGISLATURE, I REPRESENTED A PRETTY DIVERSE DISTRICT THAT HAD NOT MORE THAN, I THINK, 55,000 PEOPLE IN IT. IT MAY HAVE BEEN MORE THAN THAT, BUT IT WAS A PRETTY DIVERSE DISTRICT, SO IT'S POSSIBLE TO GET A BLENDED NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS COMMON CHARACTERISTICS. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION OR NOT. >> REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY: I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, YOU ALSO NEED TO GIVE CONSIDERATION TO THE FACT THAT THE COUNTY IS GROWING, AND AS WE PLANNED FOR GOVERNANCE AND GOOD REPRESENTATION, I THINK WE NEED TO FACTOR IN THE GROWTH ISSUE, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT A NUMBER. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: AND IF I MAY ADD, THAT IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE. WHEN WE CREATED THE CURRENT COMMISSION, THIS WAS A MUCH SMALLER COUNTY, AND WHEN WE CREATED IT, ONE OF OUR GOALS WAS ETHNIC DIVERSITY. WE ACCOMPLISHED THAT GOAL WHEN WE HAD A MUCH SMALLER COUNTY AND WE BROKE IT UP INTO FOUR PIECES. TODAY, THAT ETHNIC DIVERSITY IS AT RISK, BECAUSE WHEN YOU DIVIDE A MILLION PEOPLE BY FOUR, YOU GET A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANSWER, AND AS THE COUNTY GROWS AT 15% A YEAR, WE COULD FIND OURSELVES WHERE WE WON'T HAVE THAT ETHNIC DIVERSITY, AND THEN, WE WOULD HAVE, RATHER THAN THE VERY DIFFICULT ISSUES HAMMERED OUT AROUND THE COUNTY AND THE COUNTY COMMISSION, THEY WOULD BE HAMMERED OUT ON THE STREET, AND WE HAVE NOT HAD THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY IN THIS COMMUNITY, OUT IN THE STREET TYPE OF ACTIVITY, SINCE WE BROUGHT PEOPLE INTO GOVERNMENT IN MEANINGFUL WAYS. SO I THINK THAT REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY'S COMMENT IS RIGHT ON POINT. >> DAVID HURLEY: A QUESTION FOR SENATOR HARGRETT NOW. YOU MENTIONED HAVING AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE OF SOME SORT. DID YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR THE SEPARATION OF POWERS SIMILAR TO THE CITY OF TAMPA OR DO YOU HAVE PREFERENCE FOR AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN THAT WOULD SERVE WITH THE COMMISSION, OR CAN 22 YOU SPEAK TO ONE OF THOSE PREFERENCES? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: WELL, THE CITY OF TAMPA'S MODEL IS A PURE MODEL. THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE. I THINK THE COUNTY CHAIRMAN IS SORT OF A BLEND, AND THAT HAS TO BE DONE AROUND A TABLE. IT HAS TO BE CAREFULLY DONE. IN THE MIDST OF A LEGISLATIVE SESSION, I DID NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DO A GOOD JOB OF CRAFTING ANY KIND OF BLENDED SYSTEM. SO I TOOK WHAT WAS A PRETTY PURE MODEL AND TOOK AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE. I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT WITH AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE FOR ALL -- I HAVE LISTENED VERY CAREFULLY, AND WHEN I PUT FORTH A PROPOSAL FOR DEBATE, I PUT FORWARD MORE CAREFULLY THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME THAN THOSE WHO AGREE. PEOPLE WHO AGREE, I'M NOT LISTENING VERY CAREFULLY BUT WHEN SOMEONE DISAGREES -- AND I HAVE NOT HEARD DISAGREEMENTS, ALTHOUGH I HEARD LACK OF STATUS QUO, AND WE DON'T WANT THIS POWERFUL FIGURE -- BUT IN THIS FAST-GROWING, URBAN REGION, WE HAVE SOME POWERFUL THINGS ABOUT TO OVERWHELM US, AND MOVE OUR QUALITY OF LIFE, LOSE IT, LOSE PARADISE. AND YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO HAS THE POLITICAL MUSCLE, AND THAT POLITICAL MUSCLE WOULD BE TEMPERED BY A STRONG LEGISLATURE AND STRONG MAYOR. YOU BALANCE IT OFF WITH THE POWERS YOU GIVE THE PERSON. BUT THE PEOPLE CAN HAVE THEIR LEGISLATURE AND THE COLLECTIVE PEOPLE CAN HAVE THEIR EXECUTIVE THAT IS ACCOUNTABLE TO EVERYBODY, BUT YOU CAN FOCUS RESPONSIBILITY. I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I'M RIGHT OR NOT, AND I WANTED TO START A DEBATE, AND I WILL LISTEN TO SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, AND MAYBE AGREE. I MAY EVEN AGREE THAT WHAT I'M PROPOSING IS NOT WISE, AND I WILL MAKE THE BEST OUT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM IF I'M A PART OF IT. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. REMEMBER, BOARD, I WOULD LIKE EACH OF YOU TO ASK ONE QUESTION. YOU CAN HAVE BOTH OF THEM ANSWER IT, SO YOU GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE. MR. AMBLER? >> KEVIN AMBLER: SO YOU CAN'T ANSWER ONE QUESTION OF EACH OF THEM, BUT -- >> JAN SMITH: ASK ONE QUESTION, LET EACH OF THEM RESPOND. >> KEVIN AMBLER: OKAY, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS JUST BRIEFLY THE ISSUE OF THE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS. AS I UNDERSTAND THAT WHOLE CONCEPT, THERE IS MORE GRASSROOTS REPRESENTATION. AS I WAS LISTENING TO YOU SPEAK, IT INITIALLY SEEMS LIKE A VERY SEDUCTIVE CONCEPT BUT WHAT WOULD CONCERN ME AS A VOTER, IN LOOKING AT THE PRESENT REGIME LIKE WE HAVE IN HILLSBOROUGH, I GO INTO THE POLLS NOW AS A VOTER, AND I CAN CAST MY VOTE FOR A REPRESENTATIVE ON THE COMMISSION FROM MY DISTRICT, SO I HAVE THAT PAROCHIAL REPRESENTATION. BUT I ALSO CAN VOTE FOR THREE COMMISSIONERS THAT REPRESENT 23 THE COUNTY, COUNTYWIDE, WHICH GIVES ME THE TOTAL OF A SAY-SO OF FOUR COMMISSIONERS, OR A MAJORITY OF THE COMMISSION. SO I FEEL I HAVE A DIRECT SAY IN WHAT HAPPENS AMONG THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMISSIONERS, AND EVERY PERSON, EVERY VOTER IN EVERY DISTRICT IN THE COUNTY, WHEN THEY CAST THEIR VOTE IN THE BALLOT BOX, HAS A SAY-SO WITH RESPECT TO THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMISSIONERS ELECTED. WITH SINGLE DISTRICT PROCESS OR PURE SINGLE-DISTRICT PROCESS, I NOW -- LET'S SAY YOU GO TO NINE COMMISSIONERS. I ONLY HAVE A SAY-SO AS TO ONE COMMISSIONER. I FEEL LIKE I, AS A VOTER, I HAVE REALLY DILUTED MY EFFECTIVE SAY-SO IN GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE MY ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THAT VOTE BY LOBBYING THAT COMMISSIONER, BY MEETING WITH THEM, BY TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO VOTE A CERTAIN WAY ONLY REALLY AFFECTS THAT ONE COMMISSIONER IN MY DISTRICT, AS OPPOSED TO THAT BALANCE OF POWER THAT YOU HAVE, KIND OF A MICRO, MACROAPPROACH OF MICROGOVERNANCE WITH A SINGLE DISTRICT MEMBER BEING ELECTED BY ME AND A MACROGOVERNANCE THAT SAYS, I HAVE TO APPROACH COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE ENTIRE COUNTY, AND WHAT THE MACRO ISSUES ARE FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME, AND MY QUESTION WOULD BE TO YOU, HOW CAN YOU PROPOSE A PURE SINGLE DISTRICT SYSTEM TO COMBAT THE ARGUMENT OF THE APPARENT DILLUTION OF POWER THAT YOU GET BY A VOTER NOT HAVING A SAY-SO ANY LONGER IN A MAJORITY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS ELECTED TO THE COMMISSION. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE STATE LEGISLATION AND HOW WE FUNCTION. WE HAVE PURE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS AND WE HAVE A GOVERNOR. IT IS A KNOWN FACT THAT IF YOU, AS A REPRESENTATIVE, PUT SOMETHING ON THE TABLE THAT ONLY BENEFITS YOUR DISTRICT, CHANCES ARE, EVEN IF YOU ARE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING IT THROUGH THE PROCESS, WHEN IT GETS TO THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THEN HE OR SHE IS GOING TO VETO THAT. SO WHEN YOU HAVE PURE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, YOU CAN HAVE PEOPLE WHO SERVE AS THE VOICE TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY GEOGRAPHICAL AREA HAS AN EFFECTIVE VOICE AT THE TABLE, BUT ALSO A PART OF THAT PROCESS IS UNDERSTANDING THAT IF YOU PUT FORTH AN ISSUE THAT IS GOING TO BE LOCAL OR JUST BENEFIT YOUR DISTRICT, EVEN IF YOU GET IT THROUGH, IF YOU HAVE A CHIEF EXECUTIVE, CHANCES ARE, WHEN IT GETS TO THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THEY WILL SAY THIS IS A TURKEY. >> KEVIN AMBLER: SO YOUR CONCEPT DOESN'T WORK WITHOUT THE COMPANION PROCESS OF HAVING A CHIEF EXECUTIVE WITH IT? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: WELL, THAT IS ONE MODEL. NOW, THE OTHER MODEL IS TO HAVE A MODEL WHERE YOU HAVE A COMBINATION OF A SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT AND AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. THE QUESTION WE HAVE TO ASK OUR IS THIS: WHICH DIRECTION DO 24 WE WANT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TO GO IN? I'M NOT ADVOCATING WE RADICALLY SHAKE THE SYSTEM UP, BUT I THINK IN ORDER FOR US TO HAVE SOME SYSTEMIC CHANGE AND TO HAVE A PROGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT, YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE THE SYSTEM ITSELF MOVE IN ANOTHER DIRECTION, BECAUSE IF YOU MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO, THEN GUESS WHAT? EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME, SO AS WE GO INTO THE NEXT MILLENNIUM, ARE WE DOING THE SAME THINGS WE ARE NOW? MY QUESTION IS THIS, THOUGH: SYSTEMS ONLY CHANGE WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING TO THEM THAT MAKES THEM AUTOMATICALLY HAVE TO CHANGE AND ADJUST. SO THE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU ALL SATISFIED WITH HILLSBOROUGH AND ITS ABILITY TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER COUNTIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND ITS ABILITY TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER ENTITIES THAT IT MAY BE COMPETING AGAINST IN OTHER STATES? SO IN ORDER TO GET SYSTEMIC CHANGE, YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE A BUREAUCRACY AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE, OTHERWISE IT JUST CONTINUES TO FUNCTION AS IT CURRENTLY DOES. SO IF YOU ALL FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT HILLSBOROUGH IS INTELLECTUALLY AND GOVERNMENTALLY THE WAY IT SHOULD BE AND VERY COMPETITIVE, THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL MIGHT WANT TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO. I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO CONSIDER REVOLUTIONIZING, BUT JUST CONSIDER DOING SOMETHING THAT WILL AUTOMATICALLY HAVE TO MAKE THE SYSTEM MOVE IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DIRECTION SO WE HAVE SYSTEMIC CHANGE THAT ALLOWS GOVERNMENT TO BE PROGRESSIVE AND PROGRESSIVE RESULTS THAT WILL COME ABOUT AS THE RESULT OF GOVERNMENT'S DECISIONS ON ISSUES. >> REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY: MR. SENATOR, YOUR ARGUMENT HAS MERIT. IT HAD MERIT WHEN WE HAD AN AT-LARGE SYSTEM AND EVERYBODY ELECTED EVERYBODY. BUT WHAT WE FOUND OUT WAS, THERE WAS LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY, AND IT COST A LOT OF MONEY TO RUN, IS AND SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE GOOD PEOPLE WHO'D WASTE THEIR TIME. YOU NEEDED LOTS OF TALENT THE PEOPLE. THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED WHEN WE CREATED -- AND THIS IS A SMALL-ENOUGH COUNTY. I HAVE LEADS IN HELPING TO CONVINCE THE CITY TO CREATE A 4-3. I'M NOT HOSTILE TO A 4-3, I THINK THE CONCEPT IS GOOD IF YOU HAVE A COMMUNITY SMALL ENOUGH. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF NOT CHANGING BECAUSE AS THE COUNTY GROWS 15%, CHANGE WILL HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE WENT TO THIS 4-3, AND PEOPLE SAW THAT THEY COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND THEY COULD GO OUT AND KNOCK ON ENOUGH DOORS TO GET ELECTED, WE GOT A LOT OF WELL-ENTRENCHED COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WHO WERE NOT VERY MUCH ACCOUNTABLE. THEY GOT DEFEATED BY NEW PEOPLE WHO WENT OUT AND KNOCKED ON 25 DOORS, AND I THINK EVERYONE WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE LIKES OF ED TURANCHIK, SYLVIA CAMPBELL, AND OTHERS CAME TO THIS COUNTY, AND THAT THEY WERE QUALITY PEOPLE, HIGH-QUALITY PEOPLE. NOW, THEY NEVER COULD HAVE GOT ELECTED, PROBABLY, UNDER THE OLD SYSTEM, BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T HAVE RAISED ENOUGH MONEY. SO NOW WE ARE AT 250,000 EACH, AND THAT IS BECOMING A CITY. TO HOLD ONTO THAT GRIP ON POWER AND NOT DEAL WITH REPRESENTATION IN THE COMMUNITY, I THINK THEY ARE COMPETING INTERESTS, AND I THINK WE ARE ABOUT TO LOSE WHAT WE HAD, BECAUSE OF MERE SIZE OF THE COUNTY AND WHERE IT'S GROWING. BUT I AGREE, I LED THE FIGHT -- I PUT FORTH A 4-3 FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD, BECAUSE I THOUGHT I COULD SELL IT BASED ON YOUR EXACT ARGUMENT. SOME OF MY FRIENDS SAID, WELL, WE LIKE A 5-2, BECAUSE WE LIKE THE CURRENT NUMBER OF DISTRICT THAT WE HAD. SO SINCE THEY WERE WILLING TO SUPPORT IT, I WENT TO A 5-2, AND THAT'S WHAT WE ENDED UP WITH. >>JAN SMITH: GENTLEMEN, IF I COULD INTERRUPT FOR A MOMENT, REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY HAS ANOTHER ENGAGEMENT, I KNOW HE WANTS TO LEAVE. WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING. HE HAS A CLOSING COMMENT. >> REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY: I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THIS. THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS MADE UP OF -- THERE ARE TWO THINGS INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS. ONE IS SCIENTIFIC AND THE OTHER IS CREATIVE. WHAT I WOULD ASK YOU ALL TO DO IS THIS -- THINK ABOUT BEST PRACTICES FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND TAKE ABOUT THE TESTIMONY AND -- TAKE THE TESTIMONY AND MAKE DECISIONS AS IT RELATES TO GOVERNANCE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY BASED UPON WHAT YOU NEED TO HAVE IN TERMS OF BEST PRACTICES FOR GOVERNMENT. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THAT MIGHT BE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE CHARGE THAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN GIVEN. BUT I WOULD JUST REQUEST THAT YOU ALL TAKE THE TESTIMONY AND DECIDE WHAT'S BEST IN TERMS OF BEST PRACTICES AS IT RELATES TO THE GOVERNMENT. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR JUST ALLOWING ME TO COME BEFORE YOU AND TO SHARE SOME OF MY VIEWS. I WILL TELL YOU THIS. I AM NOT LOCKED INTO ANY ONE SYSTEM. WHAT I AM LOCKED INTO IS PROGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT THAT ALLOWS US TO CONTINUE TO GROW IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND TO GROW PROGRESSIVELY, BECAUSE PROGRESSION IS THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN STAY COMPETITIVE, UNTIL YOU HAVE AVAILABILITY FOR ALL THE RESIDENTS A HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE AND A GOOD ECONOMIC SITUATION. SO THINK BEST PRACTICES. WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR SERVING ON THIS COMMITTEE. I KNOW THAT YOU ALL WILL COME UP WITH SOME GOOD IDEAS FOR THIS COUNTY THAT WE ALL WILL LOVE. 26 THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO STAY, SENATOR HARGRETT. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: BEFORE REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY LEAVES, I DID HAVE ONE QUESTION. CONCERNING THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, I HAVE BEEN GOING AROUND TALKING TO EVERYONE TRYING TO GET A FEEL ON THIS COUNTY MAYOR ISSUE AND DID THE SAME WHEN IT WAS A BILL BEFORE THE DELEGATION. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WHY HASN'T THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY BOUGHT INTO THAT BILL THAT WAS FILED, AND ALSO THE DEBATE THAT IS GOING ON TO THE COMMUNITY? ONE OF THE CONCLUSIONS THAT I HAVE REACHED IS THAT WE ARE NOT GETTING ANYTHING OUT OF THE DEAL. >> GERALD WHITE: IF YOU LOOK AT THE CITY OF TAMPA, IT'S NOT FORMAL, BUT WE HAVE THE EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO THE MAYOR. I WOULDN'T WANT TO HEAR A PROPOSAL THAT DIDN'T GUARANTEE THE HISPANIC AND THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY SOMETHING, LIKE A VICE MAYOR OR A DEPUTY MAYOR. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT? >> REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY: WELL, THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT I SAID EARLIER. WHEN YOU DO THINGS THAT AUTOMATICALLY CAUSE SYSTEMIC CHANGE -- BY REFORMING OR CHANGING THE STRUCTURE SLIGHTLY OF GOVERNANCE, THEN YOU AUTOMATICALLY OPEN UP AVENUES TO HAVE WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED OCCUR. THE THING THAT WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF -- THE THING THAT MAKES FOR A GREAT COUNTY OR CITY IS THAT WHEN THAT CITY MORE EFFECTIVELY INCORPORATES ITS ETHNIC DIVERSITY INTO THE PROCESS, RACIAL DIVERSITY INTO THE PROCESS, AND INTELLECTUAL DIVERSITY INTO THE PROCESS, THEN WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE EVERYONE HAS A SEAT AT THE TABLE, AND WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION BEING SHARED, AND WE HAVE GOOD IDEAS COMING ABOUT AS A RESULT. SO CHANGE CANNOT OCCUR UNLESS YOU MAKE SOME SYSTEMIC ADJUSTMENTS TO THE BUREAUCRATIC PROCESS ITSELF OR THE BUREAUCRATIC STRUCTURE ITSELF, SO THAT WE MOVE, WE SET UP A SITUATION WHERE BUREAUCRACY AUTOMATICALLY HAS TO MOVE IN ANOTHER DIRECTION. IF YOU KEEP IT THE SAME WAY THAT IT IS RIGHT NOW, IT MEANS IT STAYS THE SAME BECAUSE THESE THINGS ARE INSTITUTIONALIZED AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT UNLESS YOU INSERT -- IF YOU MAKE A CAKE AND PUT A LITTLE SALT IN AND IT TASTES DIFFERENT THAN A CAKE THAT DOESN'T HAVE SALT IN IT. IF YOU HAVE SYSTEMIC CHANGE, AS A RESULT, YOU WANT THE BUREAUCRACY TO BE MORE INCLUSIVE, THEN YOU HAVE TO INSERT DIFFERENT INGREDIENTS SO IT AUTOMATICALLY MOVES ON ITS OWN, OTHERWISE DUE TO INSTITUTIONALIZATION IT WILL KEEP THE SAME. >> SHE'S LOOKING AT HER WATCH. >> JAN SMITH: THANKS FOR COMING THIS EVENING. 27 WE APPRECIATE IT. MS. WALDRON? >> ARLENE WALDRON: THANK YOU. I AM SURE THIS BOARD HAS MISSED THE TIME LINE AS FAR AS PUTTING ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR THE ELECTED OFFICIALS POSITION. I WANT TO PERSONALLY THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY OF DEBATE. THE GOOD NEWS IS, I THINK IT'S ON OUR AGENDA THAT WE WILL ACTUALLY BE DEBATING AND DISCUSSING THAT TONIGHT. ABOUT I HAVE JUST BEEN WONDERING IF THE LEGISLATORS WERE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD THIS YEAR ON THE SAME ISSUE. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: SINCE WE DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE IN THE LEGISLATURE, IT MIGHT BE PREMATURE TO MAKE THAT SUGGESTION. I DO KNOW THAT SOME OF THE SENATORS THAT STILL HAVE -- STILL BELIEVE IT IS A GOOD IDEA, SO I WOULD NOT AT ALL BE SURPRISED IF THEY FOUND A WAY TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES >> ARLENE WALDRON: THANK YOU. >> TERRY BALLARD: REGARDING THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, A WHILE AGO YOU MADE A STATEMENT THAT IT TOOK HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ABOUT A WEEK TO COME BACK. UNDER THE PRESENT CHARTER, THE EXECUTIVE POWERS ARE INVESTED IN THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, WHICH WOULD BE THE ONE THAT THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD GO TO FOR DECISIONS LIKE THAT. AND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT THE ELECTED -- YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR -- IS THAT I FEEL IT WOULD DILUTE THE MINORITY VOTE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, UNDER YOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, YOU CAN HAVE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ELECTING THE EXECUTIVES, WHERE ELECTED EXECUTIVES ARE APPOINTING THE COUNTY-WIDE ADMINISTRATOR. IF IT IS ELECTED, IT COULD BE A PROBLEM. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: LET ME SUGGEST. I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED 18 YEARS. OUT ON THE STREETS, I PUT ON THE PRESSURE TO CREATE THE CITY OF TAMPA'S 4-3. IN OFFICE, I LED IN THE CREATION OF THE CURRENT CHARTER. I LED IN THE CREATION OF THE SCHOOL BOARD 4-3, 5-2, AND I LED, ALONG WITH REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY, THE CREATION IN PINELLAS OF 4-3. I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD MINORITY REPRESENTATION. I PROBABLY HAVE BEEN MORE INVOLVED WITH ELECTORAL REPRESENTATION, ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL OF MINORITY CONSTITUENTS. I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO PROTECT. AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT UNDER THIS 4-3, WITH THE COUNTY GROWING AT 15% A YEAR, THE MINORITY CONSTITUENTS DON'T HAVE MUCH. WHAT THE MINORITY COMMUNITY HAD WHEN WE CREATED THE 4-3, THE COUNTY IS NOW TWICE THAT SIZE, SO YOU HAVE A -- THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY, THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY DON'T REALLY HAVE A SEAT IN GOVERNMENT THAT THEY CAN HOLD ACCOUNTABLE. AND I DON'T BELIEVE NECESSARILY THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE WHERE THEY ARE 50%, BUT IT OUGHT TO BE A SEAT THAT THEY CAN 28 INFLUENCE. I WOULD ARGUE THAT UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM AT 15% A YEAR, THAT INFLUENCE IS SLIPPING AWAY, AND IF WE DO NOTHING, THE INFLUENCE IS DILUTED. SO THAT IS THE STATUS QUO. IF, HOWEVER, YOU WENT TO AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE OF SOME SORT, I THINK ON FUNDAMENTAL GOVERNMENTAL PRINCIPLES, IT GIVES YOU THE LATITUDE TO CREATE A LARGER BODY, AND WITHOUT DOING VIOLENCE TO A CONCEPT THAT EVERYONE HOLDS THE EXECUTIVE ACCOUNTABLE, AND EVERYONE HAS INFLUENCE ON THE BROAD ISSUES THAT AFFECT THEIR GOVERNMENT. YOUR ELECTED EXECUTIVE TAKES THE PLACE OF THOSE THREE AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS, AND THEN YOUR COMMISSION BECOMES A LEGISLATIVE BODY. BUT THAT'S JUST ONE WAY. AND AS I INDICATED, I DON'T HAVE AN AGENDA. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE WEST TAMPA AND EAST TAMPA, AND THE OTHER PARTS OF THE ETHNIC COMMUNITIES, HAVE A PLACE AT THE TABLE IN GOVERNMENT DURING THE NEXT TEN YEARS, HAVE A PLACE. BECAUSE I THINK GOVERNMENT WILL WORK BETTER FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE, IF AROUND THE TABLE, WE CAN HAVE THAT DIALOGUE AND IT BE A CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE AROUND THE TABLE. >> JAN SMITH: I REALLY -- WE HAVE 15 MINUTES LEFT TO GIVE EVERYONE ELSE AN OPPORTUNITY. PLEASE TRY TO MAKE YOUR QUESTIONS CONCISE. MS. WILLIAMS? >> DEE WILLIAMS: I WAS INTERESTED. YOU SAID YOU HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE LAST TWO MONTHS THAT WANT STRUCTURAL CHANGE, YET YOU DIDN'T OFFER TO TELL US WHAT TYPE OF STRUCTURAL CHANGE THEY EXPRESSED. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT WE HAVE BEEN SITTING HERE SINCE FEBRUARY, MEETING TWO TIMES A MONTH, AND IF THESE PEOPLE WANT STRUCTURAL CHANGE, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, EVERY ONE OF THESE MEETINGS, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD TOO MANY PEOPLE COME DOWN HERE AND EXPRESS ANY DESIRE FOR ANY CHANGE AT ALL. SO WHAT DO THEY WANT? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I THINK THEY THINK THAT THINGS AREN'T WORKING WELL? >> DEE WILLIAMS: WHY DON'T THEY TELL US THAT? >> SENATOR: I THINK IT'S A COMMON REFRAIN. WE JUST DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CITIZENS WHO COME TO MEETINGS, AND I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. I HAVE BEEN ACCUSTOMED TO REPRESENTING AREAS WHERE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF APATHY, AND SO MY STYLE OF REPRESENTATION MEANS THAT I MEET PEOPLE AT HOME DEPOT AND IN THE SUPERMARKET AND I CONDUCT POLITICS IN THE AISLES OF THOSE PLACES, AND I GET A LOT OF INFORMATION, AND I USUALLY GO BACK TO TALLAHASSEE AND PUT IT INTO PRACTICE. THAT'S HOW WE GOT THE SPANKING BILL, BECAUSE YOU GO OUT AND 29 LISTEN TO PEOPLE AND YOU FIND OUT WHAT IS REALLY ON THEIR MIND AND WHAT IS ON THEIR HEARTS. SO I THINK PEOPLE THINK GOVERNMENT IS BROKEN. THAT IS MY OPINION. I WOULDN'T OFFER THAT IS AN A SCIENTIFIC POLL. >> DENISE LASHER: THANK YOU FOR COMING THIS EVENING. I AM SORRY THAT REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY HAD TO LEAVE, BECAUSE I WANTED TO GET A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION FROM HIM, BECAUSE I THINK IN PINELLAS COUNTY, YOU STILL HAVE, EVEN WITH THEIR NEW FORM OF GOVERNMENT, AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS. >> SENATOR: THEY HAVE 4-3. >> DENISE LASHER: RIGHT. I KNOW WHAT THE LEGISLATURE HAD PROPOSED FOR PINELLAS, I ASSUMED. THE WAY IT IS PROPOSED IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT, THE COUNTY COMMISSION IS DEALING WITH A LOT OF DELIVERY OF LOCAL SERVICES SUCH AS GARBAGE COLLECTION, POLICE PROTECTION, OR FUNDING THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO PROVIDE POLICE PROTECTION, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I SAT THROUGH THE MEETINGS THAT THE SCHOOL BOARD HAD WHEN THEY WERE REDRAWING THEIR LINES AFTER THE AMENDMENT PASSED. AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO COME UP WITH A DISTRICT THAT HAD A MAJORITY OF MINORITY REPRESENTATION, BECAUSE FORTUNATELY, THE COMMUNITIES IN OUR COUNTY ARE BECOMING MORE INTEGRATED, SO IT IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO DRAW A BOUNDARY WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE A DISTINCT THAT WOULD HAVE THE MAJORITY OF REPRESENTATION IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: AND THAT'S WITH A 5-2, AND YOU ARE MAKE MY CASE WITH A 4-3. >> DENISE LASHER: MY POINT IS, UNLESS WE EXPANDED THE NUMBER OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, IT MAY WELL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A DISTRICT THAT WOULD HAVE MAJORITY REPRESENTATION. DO HAVE YOU A SUGGESTION, IF WE EXPANDED THE BOARD, HOW MANY MORE MEMBERS THERE SHOULD BE? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I ACTUALLY FAVOR EXPANDING THE BOARD. AND IF I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD A DEBATE, I WOULD HAVE PUT AN EXPANDED BOARD IN THE BILL THAT I FILED, BUT I KNEW THAT THAT WOULD BE THE REASON SOMEONE WOULD REFUSE TO HAVE THE DEBATE, SO I LEFT THAT FOR A LATER DISCUSSION. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS COMMUNITY, THIS COMMUNITY HAS SOMETHING IT CAN TEACH THE WORLD. I MEAN WE HAVE HAD AFRICAN-AMERICANS, SPANISH FROM SPAIN, CUBANS FROM CUBA, ITALIANS LIVING IN THIS COMMUNITY, WORKING TOGETHER AND BUILDING THIS COMMUNITY TOGETHER. BUT I THINK THAT OVER IN WEST TAMPA, YOU KNOW, WEST TAMPA OUGHT TO HAVE -- WEST TAMPA AND ITS SURROUNDINGS -- OUGHT TO BE AT THE TABLE, IN GOVERNMENT. IN EAST TAMPA, IN PROGRESS VILLAGE, IN CLAIR MEL AREA, THEY OUGHT TO BE AT THE TABLE. 30 AND I THINK THAT WHATEVER FORM OF GOVERNANCE YOU PUT FORTH, IN TERMS OF LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATION, IF IT PROVIDES THEM THE ABILITY TO HOLD SOMEONE ACCOUNTABLE, I THINK YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED. I THINK IT DOES NEED TO EXPAND. AND THAT'S WHY I THINK AS WE GROW, WE ARE A LARGE METROPOLITAN AREA. AND WE ARE GROWING MUCH LARGER -- THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT CHANGE. I DON'T THINK IT'S AN OPTION TO SAY THAT WE LIKE THE STATUS QUO AND WE DON'T WANT IT CHANGED. WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE. THE QUESTION IS WHETHER YOU DO IT INTELLECTUALLY OR WHETHER YOU JUST LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU. >> SENATOR HARGRETT, A VERY PRACTICAL MATTER -- THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUILD A LARGER ROOM WITH A BIGGER TABLE UP HERE IF WE HAD MANY MORE COMMISSIONERS. WE HAVE 14 OF US CRAMMED IN HERE RIGHT NOW. THAT IS JUST AN ASIDE. BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH ENLARGING THE NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS. >> I HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ABOUT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, COMING FROM MY YEARS IN TALLAHASSEE, WHEN I REPRESENTED COUNTY GOVERNMENT. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I WAS PUT ON THE SPOT MANY, MANY TIMES ABOUT WHAT DOES THE COUNTY WANT, AND I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT THAT THE COUNTY HAD NEVER TAKEN UP A POSITION ON ANYTHING LIKE THAT, SO THEREFORE, IT WOULD BE WEEKS. BY THAT TIME, THE WHOLE ISSUE WAS MOOT. THE OTHER END OF IT, THOUGH, WITH THE LEGISLATURE, IS, I WITNESSED FAR TOO MANY TIMES PEOPLE SAYING, WELL, I DON'T REALLY CARE, MARY LOU, THAT'S NOT MY DISTRICT. AS A MATTER OF FACT, SOMETIMES, I ACTUALLY SAW SOME AIDES WHEN THEY WERE OPENING THE MAIL, THEY WOULD JUST LOOK AT THE ZIP CODE. IF IT WASN'T A ZIP CODE THAT WAS IN THEIR DISTRICT, THEY JUST TOSSED THEM, UNOPENED. AND THAT'S VERY DISCOURAGING. AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE OUR COUNTY COMMISSION GET SO PAROCHIAL THAT IF IT DIDN'T AFFECT SOUTH COUNTY, THAT PERSON, YOU KNOW, REALLY WASN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND I THINK YOU GET A LOT OF SWAPPING BACK AND FORTH, I WANT THIS FOR MY DISTRICT, YOU KNOW. I JUST LIKE THE IDEA OF A BLEND. AND I DON'T CARE HOW MANY NUMBERS THERE ARE, BUT I DO THINK YOU NEED AT LARGE AS WELL AS MORE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS. SO, THAT WASN'T A QUESTION. >> I DETECTED THAT. (LAUGHTER). >> MIKE BEDKE: I WILL PLAY OFF OF THAT, AND 31 HOPEFULLY TURN IT INTO A BIT OF A QUESTION, WHICH IS JUST TO GET YOUR GUT REACTION TO A MODEL I HAVE BEEN TOYING WITH A LITTLE BIT, WHICH WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF SINGLE-FAMILY DISTRICTS -- OR SINGLE-MEMBER FAMILY DISTRICTS -- EXCUSE ME -- AND WHICH WOULD DISTRICT OR AT-LARGE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ALL THREE COULD NOT COME FROM SOUTH TAMPA. EAST COUNTY WOULD HAVE ONE, SOUTH COUNTY, PERHAPS. SOUTH TAMPA. EAST, WHATEVER. AND THE THIRD COMPONENT WOULD INCLUDE A CENTRAL EXECUTIVE. YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE A WORKABLE, GOOD MODEL? GUT REACTION? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I'M SORRY, I JUST DIDN'T -- >> MIKE BEDKE: THE MODEL WOULD HAVE THREE COMPONENTS. WE WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF COUNTY COMMISSION SEATS SO THAT THERE ARE MORE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS. WE WOULD KEEP THE CONCEPT OF AT-LARGE SEATS, BUT WE WOULD DISTRICT THOSE. SO ALL THREE, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD NOT BE ELECTED FROM SOUTH TAMPA, BY WAY OF EXAMPLE. AND THE THIRD PART OF THE PROGRAM WOULD INVOLVE HAVING A -- WHETHER IT'S A STRONG MAYOR OR ELECTED CHAIR, OR WHATEVER, FORM OF CENTRALLY ELECTED EXECUTIVE WE DECIDED TO GO WITH. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: WELL, I GAVE MY VIEW OF WHAT I THOUGHT OUGHT TO BE SOME OF THE TESTS, WHETHER IT ALLOWS SOME OF THE MINORITY GROUPS OR A MIX OF MINORITY GROUPS IN THIS AREA, TO HAVE REPRESENTATION THAT THEY COULD HOLD ACCOUNTABLE. AND THIS SEEMS TO DO THAT, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER. WHETHER THEY ARE -- MY EXPERIENCE, ONE OF THE REASONS I HELPED LEAD SO MANY ENGAGEMENTS IN BATTLE AGAINST AT-LARGE VOTING, TO ME IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE. SOMETIMES, IF YOU ARE AT LARGE, NOBODY CAN HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE, REALLY. AND GOVERNANCE, IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE VOTERS, I BELIEVE. BUT IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF COMPROMISES, AND IT WORKS, THAT IS WHY I SAY, WHEN YOU CREATE SOMETHING AROUND THE TABLE, THE TEST IS WILL IT WORK, AND ONCE IT'S EXPOSED TO THE PUBLIC IN DEBATE, WE CAN GET IT RIGHT, CRAFT IT. SO I WOULDN'T REJECT IT OUT OF HAND. IT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. THE FACT THAT YOU MISSED DEADLINES DOES NOT MATTER, BECAUSE IF YOU MAKE THE DECISION, YOU FORWARD IT TO THE DELEGATION, I THINK, IF IT COMES FROM THIS BODY, I THINK THEY WOULD BE HAPPY TO COOPERATE WITH YOU, SOME MEMBERS OF DELEGATION, ANYWAY. >> JOHN BALES: NO. >> STEVE LABOUR: MY ABLE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE SOME GREAT QUESTIONS, BUT I JUST WANT TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO 32 THANK YOU FOR THE MANY YEARS OF SERVICE YOU HAVE GIVEN THIS COMMUNITY. >> SENATOR: THANK YOU, SIR. >> DANNY WILKES: MY QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED, BUT ARE YOU GOING TO STAY FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, FOR THE ISSUES TONIGHT? >> SENATOR: -- FOR THE -- >> DANNY WILKES: FOR THE COUNTY AUDITOR? >> SENATOR: I WILL TRY TO, BEFORE I MUST LEAVE FOR MY NEXT STOP. >> DANNY WILKES: WILL YOU ADDRESS US ON THE COUNTY AUDITOR ISSUE? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. GO AHEAD AND DESCRIBE IT FOR ME, PLEASE. >> DANNY WILKES: THE COUNTY AUDITOR REPORTING TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO PROBABLY TAKE A POSITION ON THAT. I HAVE NOT HEARD ENOUGH OF A DEBATE, BUT I COME OUT OF THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, AND IT SEEMS LIKE A CONCEPT THAT HAS WORKED IN CORPORATE AMERICA, WHERE INTERNAL AUDITORS ANSWER TO THE BOARD, BOARD OF DIRECTORS. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A HEALTHY EXERCISE, AND EVEN THOUGH I THINK IT'S PERFORMANCE AUDITS THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING I WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED TO. BUT I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO TAKE A POSITION ON IT. BUT I CERTAINLY WILL START TRYING TO GET UP TO SPEED ON IT. >> DANNY WILKES: THANK YOU. >> JAN SMITH: SENATOR HARGRETT, I AM SURE MR. WHITE THINKS HE HAS BEEN SKIPPED BUT HE GOT HIS QUESTION IN EARLIER. IF WE HAVE TIME WE WILL GIVE HIM ANOTHER SHOT. BUT I HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN YOU ALL DRAFTED THIS LEGISLATIVE, LOCAL DELEGATION, AND YOU WERE ONE OF THE SPONSORS OF THE RECOMMENDED CHANGES, COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU GAVE TERM LIMITS TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND NO TERM LIMITS TO THE ELECTED EXECUTIVE? AND THEN TELL ME YOUR POSITION ON TERM LIMITS. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: WE DIDN'T CHANGE MUCH OF WHAT WAS CURRENTLY EXISTING. AND WHEN WE PUT IN THE EXECUTIVE, QUITE FRANKLY, AS I INDICATED IN THE POSITION, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DOT EVERY I, CROSS EVERY T, ABOUT BUT AS I INDICATED, THAT WAS A CONCEPT. WHEN PEOPLE RAISED ONE OF THE AMENDMENTS I HAD, I PLACED TERM LIMITS ON THEM. IT WAS PROBABLY AN OVERSIGHT, JUST LIKE I DID WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND JUST LIKE WE DID WITH THE AMENDMENTS FOR THE EPC. WE DID NOT -- I THINK TERM LIMITS THAT WORK, AND DO NOT 33 DISADVANTAGE THE PEOPLE, ARE GOOD. I DON'T HAVE MUCH PROBLEM WITH TERM LIMITS WHERE EVERYBODY IS CUT OFF, AND YOU DON'T LEAVE HALF THE BODY EXPERIENCED AND HAVE THE OTHER HALF GREEN, AND YOU CAN GET SOME BAD OUTCOMES THAT WAY. BUT IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL. I THINK THAT WHAT WE HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH, AND THAT'S WHAT I AM USUALLY GUIDED ABOUT, WHAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH WHEN I PUT FORTH A SCHOOL BOARD'S PROGRAM, IS PEOPLE HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH A 4-3, AND SO THAT IS WHAT I HAVE OFFERED FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD. AND THE PEOPLE HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE HERE WITH TERM LIMITS. AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH TERM LIMITS, AND SO IT WAS NOT MY INTENTION TO DEPART FROM THAT. IN FACT, IT WAS MY INTENTION IN CRAFTING THAT BILL TO ELIMINATE ANY ISSUES, OTHER THAN THE FOCUS ON THE ELECTED EXECUTIVE, SO THAT ANYTHING ANYBODY ELSE WANTED TO DO, I HADN'T CHANGED THAT, AND I OMITTED THAT, AND THAT WAS AN OVERSIGHT, BUT I WAS PREPARED TO CORRECT IT. I HAD MY AMENDMENTS IN HAND, PREPARED TO CORRECT THAT, BECAUSE I LISTENED TO EVERYBODY THAT MADE A CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTION. BUT I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE GIVEN. YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT IS A TEAM SPORT. AND IT DOESN'T WORK WELL UNLESS YOU HAVE CITIZENS WHO ARE WILLING TO DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING, THAT IS, SIT AROUND A TABLE AND HELP US MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT MORE PERFECT. AND WITH YOUR HELP, WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO DO, I AM SURE THAT ULTIMATELY, WE WILL HAVE A MORE PERFECT UNION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> JAN SMITH: SENATOR HARGRETT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING THIS EVENING. BOARD MEMBERS, I SAID WE WOULD HAVE A 15-MINUTE BREAK. IF THE BOARD WILL INDULGE MR. WHITE ONE MORE QUESTION, WE WILL TAKE IT. >> GERALD WHITE: IT IS NOT AN ADDITIONAL QUESTION. >> JAN SMITH: PLEASE ASK THE QUESTION SO WE CAN BE OUT OF HERE IN TWO MINUTES. >> GERALD WHITE: I WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. SENATOR HARGRETT, WOULD YOU SUPPORT A VICE MAYOR OR DEPUTY MAYOR IN ANY PROPOSAL THAT THIS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD PRODUCED? >> SENATOR: WOULD I SUPPORT WHAT? >> GERALD WHITE: A VICE MAYOR OR DEPUTY MAYOR, SIMILAR TO WHAT THE CITY OF TAMPA HAD? NOT A VICE, JUST AN ASSISTANT. WHAT HAPPENS, WHEN THE MAYOR IS OUT OF TOWN, THEN WHO WOULD RUN THE GOVERNMENT? >> SENATOR HARGRETT: I THINK WHEN THE MAYER IS OUT OF TOWN, HE CAN HAVE GOOD PEOPLE. I AM FISCALLY 34 CONSERVATIVE. I WON'T SUPPORT ANY MORE GOVERNMENT THAN IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU HAVE AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE THAT IS ACCOUNTABLE TO ALL THE PEOPLE, AND YOU ENLARGE THE COMMISSION, I THINK YOU REALLY ADVANCE THE INTERESTS OF THE MINORITY COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THEY GET A REPRESENTATIVE IN THE GOVERNMENT, AND THEY HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE. UNDER OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, BECAUSE THE 15% A YEAR GROWTH IS ERODING IT, IN THE OUT YEARS THEY DON'T HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE. SO I WOULD ARGUE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, THAT YOU PROBABLY OUGHT TO SUPPORT SOMETHING THAT WOULD GIVE A MINORITY OF HISPANICS AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHERSA SEAT AT THE TABLE, BECAUSE IF YOU SUPPORT THE STATUS QUO, THEN YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE DEGRADATION OF INFLUENCE, AND WE FOUGHT OVER THE YEARS TO ENHANCE THAT INFLUENTIAL, AND TO SEE IT JUST BE DEGRADATED BY THE GROWTH OF THE COUNTY IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD BE SAD ABOUT, BECAUSE I HAVE FOUGHT A LOT OF BATTLES ON THIS FRONT. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING, AND WE WILL LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING MORE FROM YOU ON THIS ISSUE. SENATOR. >> SENATOR HARGRETT: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. >> JAN SMITH: THIS MEETING IS RECESSED UNTIL AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING. (RECESS TAKEN FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES) >> JAN SMITH: WE WILL NOW CONSIDER WHETHER A COUNTY INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR IS TO BE ELECTED. WE WILL CONSIDER FOLLOWING THE SAME PROCEDURE WE DID AT THE LAST PUBLIC HEARING. THAT IS, WE WILL GO TO MR. BEDKE FIRST FOR A REVIEW OF THE PROPOSAL THAT IS IN FRONT OF US. THEN ANY COMMENTS BY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, IF APPROPRIATE. THEN WE WILL OPEN IT UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT. EACH PERSON WILL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES IN WHICH TO PRESENT THEIR COMMENTS. AT THE END OF THE THREE MINUTES, AND AS EVERYONE HAS SPOKEN, WE DO HAVE A LIST THAT WE ARE GOING TO CALL YOUR NAMES FROM. IF YOU HAVEN'T SIGNED IN, PLEASE SEE MS. MERRITT OVER HERE ON THE SIDE SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. WE WILL THEN CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE HEARING AND THE BOARD WILL DISCUSS WHAT THEIR INTENTIONS ARE AND TAKE ACTION ON THIS PROPOSAL. MR. BEDKE? >> MIKE BEDKE: THANK YOU. JUST TO RUN THROUGH THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DRAFT PROPOSAL, THE FIRST SECTION REALLY IS JUST THE PARAGRAPH THAT CREATES THE POSITION OF THE COUNTY INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. PARAGRAPH 2 REALLY DISCUSSES THE FACT THAT THE AUDITOR WOULD BE HIRED AND FIRED BY A VOTE OF 5 COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WOULD REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE BOARD OF 35 COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THE THIRD PARAGRAPH SETS FORTH THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. IT INDICATES THE AUDITOR SHALL BE A CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT HOLDING AN ACTIVE LICENSE TO PRACTICE PUBLIC ACCOUNTCY IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, OR SHOULD BE QUALIFIED BY EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE IN GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTING, INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITING PRACTICE, AND FISCAL CONTROLS. THE NEXT PARAGRAPH SETS FORTH IN ESSENCE THE POWER OF THE POSITION, WHICH INDICATES THAT AS DIRECTED BY A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THE COUNTY INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR SHALL CONDUCT PERFORMANCE AUDITS AND BUDGET REVIEWS. PARAGRAPH 5 REALLY TALKS ABOUT THE STAFFING OF THE OFFICE, AND INDICATES THAT THE NUMBER AND QUALIFICATIONS OF THE SYSTEM SHALL BE PROVIDED, AGAIN, BY A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND THAT THEY DO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO HIRE OUTSIDE EXPERTS. PARAGRAPH 6 DEALS WITH WHAT OCCURS IN THE EVENT OF A VACANCY IN THE POSITION AND, IN ESSENCE, IT SAYS THE BOARD WILL GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCEDURES TO HIRE A NEW PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. THE NEXT SECTION DEALS WITH POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND, IN ESSENCE, SAYS THAT IT WILL BE A NON-PARTISAN POSITION, THAT THE PERSON SHALL NOT HOLD ANY OTHER POLITICAL OFFICE OR ANY POLITICAL OFFICE, ACTUALLY, OR TAKE PART IN POLITICAL ACT, OTHER THAN VOTING. THEN IT GOES ON TO INDICATE THAT THE PROPOSAL WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE VOTERS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY BY PLACING THE QUESTION ON THE BALLOT AT THE NEXT SCHEDULED GENERAL ELECTION. AND THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. BEDKE. DOES THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAVE ANY COMMENTS? MS. CAMPBELL? >> MARY HELEN CAMPBELL: FOR THE RECORD, MARY HELEN CAMPBELL WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. I DO HAVE SOME ISSUES WHEN THE BOARD GETS INTO DISCUSSION ABOUT ITMES THAT WERE OUTSTANDING FROM THE LAST BOARD MEETING REGARDING CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. IF THE BOARD GOES FORWARD TO DECIDE THE DATE OF THE REFERENDUM, THERE WAS A QUESTION LAST MEETING ABOUT A SPECIAL ACT THAT REQUIRED PERFORMANCE AUDITS OF SEVERAL -- PLANNING COMMISSION, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMISSION. THERE WAS A BILL INTRODUCED PASSED THIS LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION THAT EFFECTIVELY REPEALED THOSE. I HAVE A COPY, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT. I DO HAVE CATHY TETI WITH MY OFFICE WHO IS HERE, WHO IS AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I WOULD INVITE YOU TO DIRECT THOSE 36 TO HER. OTHER THAN THAT, I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING MORE AT THIS TIME. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. THE FIRST PERSON SCHEDULED TO SPEAK TO THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD IS MIMI ESIASON. SHE DID SPEAK IN THE PUBLIC COMMENT PART AT THE BEGINNING. SHE CAN SPEAK NOW. I ASSUME SHE WILL ADD NEW INFORMATION AND SPEAK WITHIN THE THREE-MINUTE TIME LIMIT. >> MIMI ESIASON: I THINK WHAT I WILL DO IS JUST GIVE YOU A BROAD OVERVIEW OF THE FOUR POINTS THAT I MADE EARLIER. THE FIRST ONE IS THAT I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID IT JUST NOW. I AM MIMI ESIASON REPRESENTING THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. WE OBJECT TO PLACING THIS ISSUE ON THE 2000 BALLOT. THERE ARE SEVERAL REASONS FOR THAT. BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT IS PROBABLY THAT YOU ARE CONSIDERING CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT AND THOSE DECISIONS SHOULD BE MADE FIRST BEFORE YOU LOOK AT ANY INTERNAL AUDITOR. SECOND IS THAT ALTHOUGH WE AGREE WITH THE STATED INTENT THAT FUNDING DECISIONS SHOULD FOLLOW POLICY DECISIONS, WE DO NOT THINK THAT THE CHARTER IS THE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THIS, BECAUSE CHARTER IS OUR CONSTITUTION, AND SHOULD PROVIDE A BROAD FRAMEWORK FOR GOVERNMENT. THIRD, MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS TOLD YOU IS THAT CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS CANNOT BE COVERED, AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, IF THE POINT OF DOING THIS IS AT LEAST 25% OF THE BUDGET IS NOT COVERED UNDER THIS AMENDMENT, IT SEEMS INAPPROPRIATE. FOURTH, THE COUNTY COMMISSION DOES NOW HAVE THE POWER AND DOES INDEED DO PERFORMANCE AUDITS, AND THERE IS LEGISLATIVE LANGUAGE THAT IN CHAPTER 125.01, ONE OF THE FLORIDA STATUTES THAT GIVES THAT AUTHORITY, SO WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THIS AT THIS TIME. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMING. ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHES TO STAY, BOARD MEMBERS WILL HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU AT THAT POINT, WE WILL DO THAT. THE BOARD WILL ASK QUESTIONS OF THE PEOPLE THEY CHOOSE. DENISE LANE? AND RANDY LARSEN. >> DENISE LANE: I AM A TAXPAYER OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AS ARE YOU. LAST SESSION, DURING PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU HEARD ME VOICE SOME CONCERNS, AND YOU ADDRESSED THOSE CONCERNS, NOT TO MY SATISFACTION, BUT THEY WERE ADDRESSED. I NOW WANT TO VOICE AN OPINION. I TELL YOU WHAT, WHEN I HEAR THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, THAT REPRESENTS GOOD GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTRY, IN THIS NATION, 37 HAVE SOME GRAVE CONCERNS, AND ALMOST PARROT WHAT I TALKED TO YOU ABOUT LAST PUBLIC HEARING, THIS SCARES ME TO DEATH. AND I THINK IT SHOULD SCARE YOU TOO. WHAT WE ARE CREATING IS ANOTHER LEVEL OF BUREAUCRACY THAT DOES NOT NEED TO BE MET. WHAT I AM HEARING THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED THIS LAST TIME SAY, IT'S NOT AN AUDITOR THAT THEY WANT. THEY WANT SOMEONE IN THE GOVERNMENT TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE BUDGET, TO GIVE THEM FISCAL ADVICE. THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH OUR ADMINISTRATOR DOING THAT. THIS IS NOT THE SOLUTION WHICH YOU ARE PUTTING BEFORE US. TO ASK TAXPAYERS TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES ON THIS ISSUE IN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS IS DOING YOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTY A HUGE DISSERVICE. THIS IS COMPLICATED. I HAVE LISTENED TO YOU ALL TALKING ABOUT IT FOR MONTHS. HOURS! HEATED DEBATE. AND NOW YOU ARE ASKING THE VOTERS OF THIS COUNTY TO UNDERSTAND THIS IN TWO MONTHS? I AM BEGGING YOU NOT TO DO THIS. YOU ARE NOT LOOKING OUT FOR THE CITIZENRY OF THIS COUNTY. IF YOU ARE, I AGREE WITH YOUR ACCOUNTABILITY REASONS. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH AN INDEPENDENCE OF SORTS, BUT YOU DON'T CREATE A DEPARTMENT THAT DEPENDS ON THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY THEM. THAT'S NOT INDEPENDENT. AND YOU ARE LEAVING THEM WITH A COUNTY COMMISSION THAT CONTROLS THEIR SALARY. IF THEY DON'T DO WHAT THE COMMISSION WANTS OR GIVE THE RESULTS THAT ARE WANTED, THEIR JOB'S ON THE LINE, SO WHAT DO YOU THINK COULD HAPPEN? WE ARE CREATING SOMETHING THAT IS JUST NOT WELL THOUGHT-OUT. THE INTENT IS EXCELLENT. WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IS EXCELLENT. AND I APPLAUD YOU TRYING TO BRING ACCOUNTABILITY INTO THIS GOVERNMENT, BUT WHAT YOU ARE CREATING IS A NIGHTMARE, AND YOU HAVE NOT ANY PROVISION IN THIS ORDINANCE OR IN THIS RESOLUTION TO SUNSET THIS. YOU ARE HAVING TO GO THROUGH A REFERENDUM STAGE NOW TO GET RID OF THIS. YOU WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH A REFERENDUM, AND TRUST ME, IT IS SO MUCH HARDER TO UNDO A MISTAKE. IF THIS DOES NOT WORK, THEN IT IS TO TRY TO SET THIS UP. LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH TRYING TO SET IT UP. PLEASE CONTINUE TALKING. PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS ON THE BALLOT. CONTINUE TALKING FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, AND FIND THE WAY TO DO IT. THIS IS NOT IT. 38 THANK YOU. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MS. LANE. MR. RON WOLF? >> RON WOLF: 1414 DIEDRE DRIVE, RUSKIN. I THINK WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE EXPRESSION FROM TIME TO TIME, I WISH GOVERNMENT WOULD OPERATE LIKE A BUSINESS. HOW MANY HAVE HEARD THAT? ANYBODY HEARD THAT? I THINK WE ALL HAVE. MY BACKGROUND AND EXPERIENCE IS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD. AND I LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT, AND USING THE ANALOGY OF A BUSINESS, I SEE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS FUNCTIONING AS WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. AND I SEE THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AS THE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER. NOW, IN BUSINESS CIRCLES, WE'RE QUITE AWARE OF NORMAL DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES, AND WHERE ONE BEGINS AND THE OTHER ENDS. WILL IN ANTICIPATION OF COMING DOWN, I CAME AWAY WITH THE TERM "INDEPENDENT AUDITOR." INDEPENDENT -- INDEPENDENT OF WHO? AND NOW I REALIZE IT IS INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. BUT THE NAME AUDITOR REMAINS. AND AUDITORS MIGHT MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. CERTAINLY IN THIS COUNTY GOVERNMENT. GOING TO WEBSTERS, AN AUDITOR IN WEBSTERS IS A PERSON APPOINTED AND AUTHORIZED TO EXAMINE ACCOUNTS AND ACCOUNTING RECORD, COMPARE THE CHARGES WITH THE VOUCHERS, VERIFY BALANCE SHEET AND INCOME ITEMS, AND STATE THE RESULTS. NOW AS A TAXPAYER IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, I'M NOT SO SURE WE DO NOT HAVE THAT EXISTING CAPABILITY. SO WHAT WE NEED HERE IS WE EXPECT ANTICIPATE SPENDING TAXPAYERS MONEY. IN MY VIEW, WE NEED TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE TO OUR BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION DURING A RECENT SURVEY, THEY NEED HELP. WHEN THAT LARGE BUDGET DOCUMENT HITS THEIR DESK, IT BECOMES A NIGHTMARE. EVEN A COUPLE FORMER COMMISSIONERS HAVE INDICATED TO ME THAT REALLY, HONESTLY, RON, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GO THROUGH AND DIGEST ALL OF THIS. WE NEED SOME ASSISTANCE. SO I WOULD LIKE TO THINK OF THIS AS AN INTERNAL POLICY ANALYST. PERHAPS THAT WOULD BE MORE DESCRIPTIVE. WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED PEOPLE TO EXAMINE ACCOUNTS, ACCOUNTING RECORDS, COMPARE CHARGES AND MATCH THEM WITH VOUCHERS. 39 IN MY OPINION, WE NEED TO PROVIDE SOME ASSIST TANKS TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SO THEY COULD -- ASSISTANCE TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SO THEY COULD BETTER CARRY OUT THEIR LEGISLATIVE RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS COUNTY. AND PERHAPS THIS PERSON, THE INTERNAL POLICY ANALYST, COULD BECOME THE 8TH MEMBER OF THIS TEAM. IN A NON-EXECUTIVE, NON-ELECTED CAPACITY. AND I APPRECIATE VERY MUCH BEING HERE TONIGHT. I HEARD THE DING GO OFF. I GUESS THAT TELLS ME MY TIME IS UP. IS THAT CORRECT? >> JAN SMITH: YES, SIR. THANKS FOR COMING DOWN. IF YOU HAVE YOUR COMMENTS WRITTEN AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE THEM WITH MS. MERRITT, SHE CAN PASS THEM OUT TO THE BOARD. NEXT IS MR. LARSEN. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS RANDY LARSEN. I LIVE AT 207 NORTH FRANKLIN STREET, PLANT CITY, FLORIDA. FIRST, I'M GOING TO APPLAUD YOU FOR ANY EFFORT TO STREAM LINE GOVERNMENT. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS APPLAUDING. MAKING IT MORE EFFICIENT AND A BETTER VALUE FOR OUR CITIZENRY IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. I AM A BIG FAN OF MR. HUGHES HERE. I AM A READER OF HIS STUFF AND HE KNOWS THAT. I JUST HOPE HE STILL LIKES ME AFTER I GET DONE HERE. Y'ALL HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH A LOT OF ISSUES. ONE THAT'S CAUGHT MY ATTENTION JUST THIS PAST WEEK, AND THAT'S MY FAULT, IS THE OFFICE OF A COUNTY PERFORMANCE AUDITOR. WHILE IT'S WELL INTENDED TO ALL OF THESE IDEALS AND VALUES I JUST MENTIONED ABOUT STREAM LINING GOVERNMENT, MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THEY PRETTY MUCH ALWAYS END UP BEING SOMETHING THEY WERE NEVER INTENDED TO BE. I AM MANAGING PRINCIPAL OF A VERY LARGE NATIONAL ENGINEERING FIRM AND WE WORK WITH MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND THIS EFFORT GENERALLY FALLS APART AFTER ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS OF SERVICE. THIS IS AN AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY. PUTTING SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT, I AM CONTINUALLY AMAZED AT THE REFERENDUM OF CITIZENS FROM TIME TO TIME SEEMS TO BE DIVERSE. THIS IS ONE THAT MAY NOT BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COUNTY CITIZENS. NOT FOR ITS PURPOSE BUT FOR WHAT IT BECOMES. IT GENERALLY GROWS INTO SOMETHING YOU CAN'T TURN OFF. A BUREAUCRACY THAT GROWS AND GROWS AND GROWS. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COUNTY MANAGERS OFFICE FEELS ABOUT THIS BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE THEY ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT. 40 AN EVALUATOR OF PERFORMANCE WILL LITERALLY DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF THE GOVERNMENT. IT REALLY SUBVERTS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. THE DEPARTMENTS -- A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE -- WILL EVOLVE INTO MEETING AUDITORS' EXPECTATIONS OF THEIR PERFORMANCE INSTEAD OF THE COMMISSION'S OR CITIZENS' EXPECTATIONS OF PERFORMANCE. THE WORD "TRUST" WILL DISAPPEAR. YOU CAN COUNT ON IT. THE VERY PURPOSE OF PERFORMANCE AUDIT WILL EVOLVE TO ONE OF MISTRUST. COUNTY MANAGEMENT WILL BECOME DYSFUNCTIONAL, AND YOU WILL NOW WORK TO THE AUDITORS', PERFORMANCE AUDITORS' OBJECTIVES, AND THE DEFINITION OF A GOOD MANAGER WILL NOW BE ONE HO CAN SUCCESSFULLY REBUT AN AUDIT ON THEIR PERFORMANCE. I HAVE TO END. MIAMI DADE COUNTY IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE. IT'S DYSFUNCTIONAL. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS AT ODDS WITH ONE ANOTHER. THE SIMPLEST MISTAKE IS CONFUSED BY AUDIT TO BE ONE OF CONSPIRACY AND FRAUD. I WOULD URGE YOU TO RECONSIDER THIS IN SOME OTHER LANGUAGE AND HOPEFULLY COME UP WITH A BETTER POLICY FOR AUDIT. THANK YOU. >> JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. LARSEN. THE NEXT THREE SPEAKERS ARE LYNN MCGARVEY, LAURA LEE BUCKINGHAM, AND ROY DAVIS. Q. LYNN MCGARVEY: DIAMOND HEAD DRIVE IN TAMPA. I WILL AGREE WITH THE GENTLEMAN WHO JUST SPOKE, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GO A LITTLE BIT FARTHER. I THINK TO HAVE A SINGLE PERFORMANCE AUDITOR FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY GOVERNMENT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE, BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES ARE OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS. AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WILL COME WHEN YOU CONTRAST THE SHORT-TERM, BOTTOM LINE WITH THE LONG-TERM GOALS AND THE VISION OF THE COUNTY, IN TRYING TO PREPARE US FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS. SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO PUT OUT MONEY THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THE EFFECT OF IMMEDIATELY. WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PRESERVING LAND, NATURAL RESOURCES, AND MAYBE THAT ISN'T WHAT A CORPORATION WOULD DO, IF THEY WERE LOOKING AT THE BOTTOM LINE OF TAXPAYERS. THE OTHER BAD EFFECT, I THINK, WOULD BE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE EMPLOYEES FOR THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT UNABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEIR SUPERVISOR WHO WAS PERHAPS HEAD OF PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT, URGING THEM TO LOOK INTO FUTURE THINGS, OR SHOULD THEY LOOK TO THE AUDITOR. WHO WOULD BE THEIR BOSS? I THINK THAT THE MORALE IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT WOULD BE