Charter Review Board, 8-24-00 **NOTIFICATION: **This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the following **meeting. It should be used for informational purposes only. **This document has not been edited; therefore, there may be **additions, deletions, or words that did not translate. [ GAVEL SOUNDING ] >>JAN SMITH: WELCOME, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, TO THE MEETING OF THE AUGUST 24th CHARTER REVIEW MEETING FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. [ INAUDIBLE ] -- THE PLEDGE. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: [ ROLL CALL TAKEN ] YOU HAVE A QUORUM. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. BOARD MEMBERS, WE DIDN'T GET THE MINUTES. THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAVE BEEN MEETING FREQUENTLY AND AT LENGTH. AND SO THE MINUTES WERE NOT COMPLETED, BUT AS SOON AS WE HAVE THEM, I'LL MAKE SURE YOU GET A COPY AND THEN WE'LL CONSIDER THEM FOR THE NEXT MEETING. MS. MERRITT. >> THE DRAFT MINUTES ARE IN YOUR ORANGE FOLDER. >>JAN SMITH: OH, THEY DID COME? >> THEY CAME THIS MORNING. >>JAN SMITH: BOARD MEMBERS, I SUSPECT YOU DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO READ OVER THEM. I THINK WE'LL STILL HOLD OFF UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING. THANK YOU, MS. MERRITT. FIRST ON OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING, I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT MARY LOU TUTTLE WILL NOT BE HERE DUE TO ILLNESS. AND THIS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD MEETING IS NOT GOING OUT LIVE IF ANY OF YOUR FRIENDS ARE HOME HOPING TO SEE YOU ON TV OR MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE. THEY WON'T FOR A WHILE ANYWAY. BUT THE MEETING WILL BE REPLAYED ON FRIDAY AUGUST 25th AT 7 P.M., WEDNESDAY AUGUST 27th AT 3 P.M., AND SUNDAY AUGUST 30th, IF YOU HAVE INSOMNIA, MIDNIGHT. DID I SEE MS. TOKELY COME IN? ARE YOU BACK THERE? I DID. WE'RE -- WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM PUBLIC COMMENT FIRST. AND MR. HUGHES, YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE UP RIGHT OFF THE BAT THIS EVENING. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR. RALPH HUGHES, TAMPA. TONIGHT, WE WILL BEGIN DISCUSSING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD PUT A PROPOSAL ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER 2002 TO ASK THE PEOPLE WHETHER WE SHOULD CHANGE OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT, WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD ELECT A COUNTY MAYOR OR CHAIRMAN OR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. I BELIEVE THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT WE HAVE IS NOT WHAT IS IMPORTANT. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THE PEOPLE WE ELECT AND GIVE DECISION-MAKING POWER. PINELLAS COUNTY IS ONE OF THE MOST SUFFICIENT COUNTY GOVERNMENTS IN OUR STATE. YET THE PEOPLE OF THAT COUNTY DECIDED RECENTLY TO CHANGE FROM THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT THEY HAD TO OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. LET ME NOW READ SOME COMMENTS WRITTEN BY THOSE WHO ARE MORE INTIMATE AND KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THIS SUBJECT THAN I WILL EVER BE. AND THEY OPPOSE AN ELECTED COUNTY EXECUTIVE. I QUOTE, THE COUNTY WOULD LOSE SOMETHING VALUABLE BY ABANDONING THE CURRENT SYSTEM IN FAVOR OF A SINGLE POWERFUL CHAIRMAN OR COUNTY MAYOR. WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO GET COUNTY APPROVAL FOR A PROJECT, IT TAKES THE CONSENT OF AT LEAST FOUR COMMISSIONERS, NOT JUST ONE POWERFUL EXECUTIVE. THESE COMMISSIONERS REPRESENT DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE COUNTY, ALL OF WHICH WILL FEEL THE EFFECTS OF THE DECISION. SPREADING THE CONCEPT AROUND MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR SOME FOLLY TO SLIP PAST. THE CURRENT SYSTEM MAY NOT BE EVERYONE'S VISION OF DEMOCRATIC IMPRESSION QUOTE, THE CURRENT SEVEN-MEMBER BOARD MAY BE CUMBERSOME AT TIMES, BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY BAD IF IT FORCES PEOPLE IN POWER TO SLOW DOWN AND THINK THROUGH THEIR DECISIONS MORE CAREFULLY. FOR THAT REASON, IT'S WORTH PRESERVING. EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT AS STREAMLINED AS SOME MAY LIKE. QUOTE, UNDER THE PRESENT SYSTEM TO PREVENT A DANGEROUS CONCENTRATION OF POWER, IT IS SET BY SEVEN COMMISSIONERS WHO BRING TO THE JOB SEVEN DIFFERENT LEVELS OF KNOWLEDGE, TALENT AND REASONABLENESS. QUOTE, IT IS WELL AND GOOD FOR TAMPA TO HAVE A STRONG FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE CITY IS BUILT OUT AND SPECULATION IS SERIOUSLY CONFINED. SPRAWLING HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IS ANOTHER MATTER. IT HAS A HUGE BUDGET AND THE FUTURE IS LARGELY UNWRITTEN SO WE MUST BE CAREFUL ABOUT EMBRACING A MAJOR REFORM THAT POSES HIGH RISK. QUOTE, HILLSBOROUGH OFFICIALS RECENTLY HELD PUBLIC FORUMS IN WHICH PEOPLE WERE INVITED TO SPEAK ABOUT THEIR HIGHEST PRIORITIES FOR THE COUNTY. THEY SPOKE THE SIDEWALKS, STREETS, PARKS AND STREETLIGHTS, CRIME CONTROL AND TRAFFIC PROBLEMS. NO OUTCRY FOR CHANGING THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THE PUBLIC IS NOT CLAMORING TO DO AWAY WITH THE COMMISSION SYSTEM AND REPLACE IT WITH A COUNTY MAYOR OR COUNTY EXECUTIVE. THE SUNSHINE LAW WILL BE SACRIFICED. THEY WILL TAKE THE VOTE ALL IN THE OPEN. THEY DON'T RETIRE TO A BACK ROOM AND MAKE DECISIONS. IT'S ILLEGAL. BUT AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE IN PRIVATE AND CUT A DEAL THAT THE PUBLIC WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT UNTIL IT WAS ALL OVER. QUOTE, IF SUCH AN OFFICE WAS CREATE IT HAD WOULD BE THE MOST POWERFUL ELECTED POST IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. A LOT OF POLITICIANS WOULD LIKE THE JOB, LET RALPH SAY ADD TO THAT WHEN I THINK OF SOME WHO COULD BE ELECTED TO THIS OFFICE, I DON'T SLEEP TOO WELL AT NIGHT. QUOTE, IF THE COUNTY ELECTED AN EXECUTIVE, THE VOTERS WILL BE CHOOSING SOMEONE WHO WAS GOOD AT POLITICS, NOT NECESSARILY AT ADMINISTRATION. THEY WILL LIKELY END UP WITH A POLITICIAN SHAN WHO HIRED TO DO WHAT THE ADMINISTRATOR WAS DOING ALREADY. THE ADMINISTRATOR WOULD ANSWER TO THE ONE POWERFUL INDIVIDUAL, NOT THE SEVEN COMMISSIONERS. QUOTE, THEY WILL BE BEHOLDEN TO SOME MEMBERS OF THE COUNTY AND NOT TO OTHERS AND THAT WILL INFLUENCE THE WAY SERVICES ARE PROVIDED. QUOTE, SOME ADVOCATES HAVE CHANGED ARGUMENTS THAT THEY NEED A DESERVED SPOKESMAN FOR THE PEOPLE. FOR THIS PURPOSE, THE COMMISSION HAS A CHAIRMAN. CITIZENS CAN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES AND OFTEN DO WITH FULL VOICE. NOW RALPH SAYS TO THOSE WHO SAY NOT HAVING ONE VOICE AND SPEAKING TO US. I WOULD ASK WHY THE OTHER CHARTERED COUNTIES SUCH AS PINELLAS, POLK, PALM BEACH, SARASOTA AND BROWARD COUNTY DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. BACK TO MY QUOTES. NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM AND SERVING THE PEOPLE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WELL. QUOTE, IF THE JOB IS POLITICIZED ANY VOTER REGARDLESS OF RACE, ETHNIC BACKGROUND CAN BECOME AN INSTANT MINORITY BY CHOOSING THE WRONG SIDE IN AN ELECTION. PROBLEM OCCUR ONLY WHEN THE ADMINISTRATOR ATTEMPTS TO SET OR INFLUENCE POLICY OR WHEN THE BOARD INTERFERES WITH THE ADMINISTRATOR'S OFFICE. HOWEVER THESE ARE PEOPLE PROBLEMS, NOT SYSTEM PROBLEMS. NOW RALPH SAYS YOU SIMPLY DO NOT CHANGE A SYSTEM WHEN THE PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM. OF THESE QUOTES CAME PRIMARILY HAVE EDITORIAL BOARD OF THE TAMPA TRIBUNE FIVE YEARS AGO. THEY WERE RIGHT ON TARGET THEN. AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT THE PEOPLE WHO HOLD OFFICE. WE SHOULD NOT CHANGE A FORM OF GOVERNMENT WHEN THE PROBLEM IS A PEOPLE PROBLEM AND NOT A FORM OF GOVERNMENT PROBLEM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. HUGHES. RICK ELDRIDGE FROM HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. do WANT TO SPEAK? MR. MIKE CARDUCHI. >> I PUT UP SO EARLY, I THINK I HAVE ENOUGH TO SAY. ALWAYS HAVE ENOUGH TO SAY, RIGHT? I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK, FIRST OF ALL. AND I THINK MAYBE WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY IS ALREADY IN YOUR CHARTER BOOK AND I'M JUST RE-ECHOING AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED A FEW WEEKS AGO WHEN YOU HAD A MS. MacMANUS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA AND YOU ALSO HAD A GENTLEMAN HERE, A DOCTOR, I DON'T REMEMBER HIS NAME. AND YOU ASKED HIM WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS HIS MOST URGENT NEED FOR HIS COMMUNITY. HE WAS AFRO-AMERICAN. AND IF YOU IT REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID SO GRACIOUSLY WAS, ONLY TO BE REPRESENTED. FOLKS, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TONIGHT, ONLY TO BE REPRESENTED. 30 YEARS AGO, THE PEOPLE OF THIS AREA LIVED IN TAMPA AND TAMPA HAD CONTROL OF EVERYTHING AND THEY SHOULD HAVE. THEY ARE FOR THE PEOPLE. 30% LIVED IN ALL OF THE OUTER COUNTIES. TODAY, THE POPULATION HAS JUST REVERSED ITSELF. 30% LIVE IN TAMPA AND 71% LIVE IN THE OUTER COUNTY, IN THE UNINCORPORATED AREA. IF YOU LOOK AT ANY SPECIFIC BOARD, AND INCLUDING THIS ONE, THOSE APPOINTED BY THE BOARD ARE REPRESENTED BY THE BOARD OF WHOM THE AREAS THEY REPRESENT. NO WAY DO I SUGGEST THAT ANY OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ARE IN ANY WAY INEFFICIENT AND NOT WITHOUT HEART FOR EVERYONE. IF I LIVE IN TAMPA I WANT TO BE BLESSED WITH THE SAME BLESSINGS I HAD LIVING IN BRANDON. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO, MAKE BRANDON ANOTHER TAMPA. IF THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT DOES NOT STEP IN AND BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THOSE AREAS, YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE THE INDIVIDUALITY OF PLACES LIKE LUTZ, BRANDON, VALRICO, YOU ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE TAMPA. IF TAMPA WAS SO GOOD AND I BLESS EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO LIVE THERE. JUST RECOGNIZE IT IS THE ONLY PLACE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY THAT HASN'T HAD A GROWTH IN 20 YEARS. THERE ARE SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH ME, ALL RIGHT. AND IF YOU WANT TO CHECK THOSE FIGURES, I CAN TELL YOU I GOT THEM FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION SO I ASSUME THEY ARE PRETTY RIGHT. THE LAST COMMENT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IS THE FACT THAT AS MR. HUGHES SAID, AND I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS ABOUT TO SAY THAT. I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS GOING TO BE HERE WHEN I CAME IN, THAT CHANGING A SYSTEM FOR THE SICK OF CHANGING A SYSTEM IS -- FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGING A SYSTEM IS NOT THE ANSWER TO A PROBLEM. YOU HAVE GOOD PEOPLE ON YOUR COMMISSION. THEY DO AN EXCELLENT JOB. AND PUTTING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF SEVEN IN THE HANDS OF ONE, VERY DANGEROUS. WE'VE BOTH HAD EXPERIENCES IN THE COUNTY AND IN THE CITY FOR WHAT CAN HAPPEN. THE OLD STORY OF ABSOLUTE POWERS ABOUT BEING A DISASTER IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE SEVEN INSTEAD OF ONE. TWO IN TAMPA REPRESENTING 30% OF THEM. TWO IN THE NORTHERN COUNTIES REPRESENT THEIR POPULATION AND THREE IN THE EASTERN PART REPRESENTING THEIR POPULATION. NOW YOU HAVE WHAT YOUR CHARTER CALLS FOR, A TRUE REPRESENTATION OF THE POPULATION IN THE COUNTY REPRESENTING THE TAX-PAYING PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING FOR THIS AND BY MAKING ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO COVER MINORITIES, OBVIOUSLY THAT SHOULD ALSO BE DONE. AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. BUT EVERYONE SHOULD BE REPRESENTED. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I DO NOT THINK THE UNINCORPORATED IS REPRESENTED. JUST LOOK WHERE THE PEOPLE IS WHO CONTROL OUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO ME. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. CARDUCCHI. ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD? MR. WEAVER? NOTHING TO SAY. JUST A MOMENT. A MEMBER OF THE TWO PREVIOUS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD HAS JUST ENTERED THE CHAMBERS. AND I WANT TO GIVE HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK, IF HE WOULD LIKE TO, MR. AL DAVIS. THAT IS AL, ISN'T IT? THAT LOOKED LIKE YOU UNDER THAT WHITE HAT. >> MADAM CHAIRMAN AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, GREETINGS. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIRMAN FOR THE RECOGNITION. I SEE YOU ALL HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BUSY. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU MAY ALL WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS AUDITOR. I HAVEN'T READ ALL THE LITERATURE YET, AND I'M NOT SURE IF I AM GOING TO SUPPORT IT IF IT GETS ON THE BALLOT OR NOT. BUT AT LEAST IT GIVES US SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, AND I COMMEND YOU, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT. I WISH YOU CONTINUED SUCCESS. AND WHENEVER I GET THE CHANCE I COME BY AND SAY HELLO TO YOU AND WISH YOU WELL. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. DAVIS. >> MR. DAVIS, ONE OF THE FIRST MEETINGS YOU BROUGHT TO US THE ISSUE OF THE OATH. AND WE ACTED UPON THAT, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAD ASKED THE COUNTY COMMISSION IF THEY WOULD CHANGE IT BY RESOLUTION, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS AGENDAED. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN ACTION ON THAT, BUT I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE DID ACT UPON YOUR SUGGESTION, AND RIGHT NOW IT IS IN THE HANDS OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION. >> GOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA AFTER HAVING OBSERVED A NUMBER OF OUR CEREMONIES. AND THEY GAVE ACKNOWLEDGMENT TO EVERY OTHER CONSTITUTION AND LAWS BUT NOTHING BUT THE CHARTER. AND THEY WERE CHARTER OFFICERS. SO I COMMEND YOU FOR DOING THAT. I WILL BE LOOKING FORWARD THEN TO SEEING HOW THE COUNTY COMMISSION HANDLES THAT. YOU SAY YOU THINK IT MAY ALREADY BE ON THE AGENDA OR MAY NOT BE YET? >>STEVE LaBOUR: IT'S ON THE AGENDA. >>GERALD WHITE: IT'S ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT WEEK. >>JAN SMITH: PERHAPS YOU SHOULD BE IN ATTENDANCE TO SPEAK TO THAT ALSO. >>JAN SMITH: ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD? THERE IS -- BOARD MEMBERS, I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT TO TELL YOU. I HAD ASKED MS. MERRITT TO GIVE YOU SOME INFORMATION ON THE PRESENT COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S SALARIES AND BENEFITS AND COSTS. ALSO, TO GIVE YOU A MAP, SHE PROVIDED A MAP, FROM THE GIS SECTION OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ON THE DIFFERENT DISTRICTS THAT WE HAVE AND THEN SOME INFORMATION ON THE VARIOUS OFFICERS IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT AND THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS AND THE FRAMEWORK OF DOLLARS AND CENTS FOR YOU. ALSO, MR. FRED KARL, PAST COUNTY ATTORNEY AND COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND ADMINISTRATOR OF TAMPA GENERAL HOSPITAL, PAST SUPREME COURT JUSTICE AND REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE DAYTONA BEACH AREA YEARS AGO, TOOK THE TIME TO WRITE A LETTER. I BELIEVE IT IS IN YOUR PACKET. IT IS CERTAINLY WELL THOUGHT OUT AND CONCISE. I APPRECIATE MR. KARL TAKING THE TIME TO DO THAT. I HOPE EACH OF YOU HAS THE TIME TO READ IT CAREFULLY AND GIVE IT EVERY CONSIDERATION. WE HAVE BEEN PRIVILEGED TO HAVE MS. JOANNA TOKELY TAKE THE TIME TO COME HERE THIS EVENING. SO WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR COMMENTS, MS. TOKELY, AND HOPE THAT WE'LL HAVE PLENTY OF QUESTIONS TO ASK YOU IF YOU DON'T MIND STAYING. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS JOANNA TOKELY, AND I LIVE AT 2118 WEST CARMEN STREET, AND I'M SPEAKING AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN THIS EVENING. I REALLY COULD SAY DITTO TO WHAT RALPH HUGHES SAID AND SIT DOWN, BUT I SIMPLY WANT TO MAKE A FEW POINTS. AND ONE IS, TO ASK WHERE IS THE HUE AND CRY FROM THE GENERAL POPULATION, FROM THE CITIZENS THAT SAYS WE WANT A CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM. I KEEP ASKING MYSELF WHY THIS WAS GENERATED AND WHO STARTED THE -- BUT IT'S NOT IMPORTANT. THEY ARE CITIZENS ALSO. BUT I'M ASKING YOU TO LOOK AT, FIRST OF ALL, WHERE IS THE HUE AND CRY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO GO TO THE POLLS AND VOTE IN MASSES. WE'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE. WHEN I FIRST CAME TO TAMPA, WE HAD AN ELECTED COUNTY ADMINISTRATIVE SYSTEM. AND WE CHANGED. AND NOW WE'RE BACK TO CONSIDERING ADDING ANOTHER LAYER OF BUREAUCRACY WHICH IS SOMETHING WE REALLY DO NOT NEED. IT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID THAT'S TOO MUCH POWER CONCENTRATED IN IN ONE PERSON THAT WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM THE SUNSHINE LAW. I ASK YOU ALSO TO LOOK AT THE REDUCTION IN THE STABILITY OF EXEMPT EMPLOYEES IN THE COUNTY. EVERY TIME YOU ELECT ANOTHER COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, YOU END UP WITH A DIFFERENT STAFF. FROM EXPERIENCES THAT WE'VE HAD WITH CHANGES IN GOVERNMENT IN THE STATE, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE SOME HORROR STORIES AS TO HOW SERVICES END UP BEING GIVEN BY THE STATE AS A RESULT OF CONSTANT CHANGE. THIS CAUSES YOUR GOOD EMPLOYEES TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEIR JOB IS GOING TO LAST FOR FOUR YEARS. AND I DON'T SEE US CREATING THAT KIND OF A SYSTEM AND THAT KIND OF INSTABILITY WITHOUT THERE BEING A GOOD REASON. I THINK THAT AN ELECTED OFFICIAL WOULD ALSO HAVE TO SPEND ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF EACH FOUR-YEAR TERM RUNNING FOR OFFICE. SO WHO IS MINDING THE STORE? WHO IS TAKING CARE OF THE COUNTY? I BELIEVE THAT WHAT WE HAVE, AGAIN, WORKS. IF THERE ARE PIECES THAT ARE BROKEN, WE NEED TO FIX THOSE PIECES. AND I THINK WE NEED TO MAINTAIN THAT SYSTEM BECAUSE IT CURRENTLY GIVES AN OPEN DOOR TO THE POPULATION IN GENERAL, WHEREIN AN ELECTED SYSTEM WOULD OPEN THE DOOR FOR PARTISAN POLITICS. I DON'T THINK WE NEED PARTISAN POLITICS IN GOVERNMENT. SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE ASKED, WELL, WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A COMMISSION IF ONE PERSON IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO CALL ALL THE SHOTS? AND SECONDLY, I FEEL THAT THE MINORITY COMMUNITY WOULD BE LESS NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY THE CURRENT SYSTEM THAN IT WOULD BY AN ELECTED SYSTEM. I ALSO JUST WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE COUNTY AUDITOR ISSUE. I WOULD LIKE SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THAT. BECAUSE I KNOW IN BUSINESS IN GENERAL, OUTSIDE COMPANIES AUDIT COMPANIES. AND THIS, TO ME, LOOKS LIKE INSIDE AUDITING ITSELF. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS BROUGHT UP TO SAVE MONEY. I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH MONEY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SAVING, BUT I WOULD LIKE SOME MORE INFORMATION, AND I WOULD LIKE, REALLY, TO SEE SOME MORE INFORMATION PRINTED IN THE MASS MEDIA SO THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC COULD UNDERSTAND BETTER WHAT MOVING FROM AN OUTSIDE INDEPENDENT AUDIT SYSTEM TO AN INTERNAL COUNTY AUDITOR WOULD BRING. >>JAN SMITH: MS. TOKELY, THERE MAY BE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU YOU. WOULD YOU MIND ANSWERING SOME QUESTIONS? >> NO. >>JAN SMITH: BARBARA MERRITT, WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE MS. TOKELY WITH A COPY OF THE RESOLUTION, THE BALLOT LANGUAGE, THE LETTER FROM MR. KARL, ANY INFORMATION PASSED OUT TO THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD RELATING TO THE AUDITOR SO SHE CAN HAVE THAT. MR. WHITE, I BET YOU HAVE A QUESTION. >>GERALD WHITE: YES, MY FIRST CONCERN, YOU HIT ON THE STUDY THAT WE ARE CONTEMPLATING ON DOING ON THE ELECTED MAYOR OR ELECTED ADMINISTRATOR. THE THOUGHT I'M WRESTLING WITH UP HERE IF THERE ARE TEN VOTES FOR THIS ISSUE TO GO ON THE BALLOT, I'M CONTEMPLATING AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN CONCERNED BY THE MINORITY COMMUNITY WHAT ROLE SHALL I PLAY IN SHAPING A PROPOSAL. I'M ON THIS SIDE. >> I THINK THE ROLE THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS INFORMING PEOPLE. I THINK, TOO OFTEN, AN OPINION IS FORMED BY WHAT WE READ IN EDITORIALS, ET CETERA. AND I THINK ONE OF THE ROLES IS TO PUT INFORMATION IN THE MEDIA, MASS MEDIA, IN YOUR CHURCH COMMUNITY, ET CETERA, TO EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. >>GERALD WHITE: I WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO CONGRATULATE YOU, AS WELL, ON YOUR APPOINTMENT BY GOVERNOR BUSH TO THE FLORIDA ELECTION COMMISSION. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. >>DENISE LASHER: THANK YOU FOR COMING THIS EVENING. I HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING A CHANGE THAT'S OCCURRED IN PINELLAS COUNTY. AND I WANTED TO GET YOUR OPINION AND SEE WHAT YOU THOUGHT IF IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD LOOK AT HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH. PINELLAS COUNTY RECENTLY CHANGED HOW THEIR -- THEIR AREAS OF REPRESENTATION THAT THEIR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL COME, BE ELECTED FROM. THEY ARE ALL AT LARGE NOW. THEY HAVE GONE TO OUR FORM WITH SINGLE MEMBER AND AT-LARGE. BUT THEIR AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS HAVE TO COME FROM CERTAIN GEOGRAPHIC AREAS. I GUESS THEY HAVE DIVIDED THEIR COUNTY UP IN THIRDS. ONE WOULD HAVE TO LIVE IN ONE SECTION OF THE COUNTY, AND ONE IN THE MIDDLE SECTION, AND ONE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE COUNTY. DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING FEASIBLE HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WHERE OUR AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS WILL HAVE TO COME FROM A CERTAIN GEOGRAPHIC AREA? WOULD THAT ENABLE, PERHAPS, MORE MINORITY REPRESENTATION ON THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU THINK? >> IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A CON BIND FORM, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, FOR SINGLE DISTRICT AND AT-LARGE. >>DENISE LASHER: THEY WILL RUN COUNTYWIDE, BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO LIVE IN A CERTAIN A AREA. YOU KNOW, SIMILAR TO HOW THE SCHOOL BOARD USED TO BE WHERE YOU HAD TO LIVE IN A CERTAIN DISTRICT, BUT YOU RAN COUNTYWIDE. >> CORRECT. >>DENISE LASHER: SO THE AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS WILL HAVE TO RUN COUNTYWIDE BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO RESIDE IN A CERTAIN GEOGRAPHIC DISTRICT IN THE COUNTY. >> I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. >>DENISE LASHER: THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, BOARD MEMBERS? THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: WE ALL CONGRATULATE YOU ON THAT APPOINTMENT. >>GERALD WHITE: I COULD ASK A SECOND QUESTION, MADAM CHAIR, IF THERE'S NO ONE ELSE. >>JAN SMITH: MS. TOKELY, WE ARE GOING TO GIVE GERALD ANOTHER SHOT AT THIS. >>GERALD WHITE: A CRITICAL ISSUE WE'VE HAD -- SAM HORTON, SENATOR HARGRETT AND YOURSELF. THE GROWTH OF THE COUNTY IS CREATING A SITUATION WHERE IT'S A POSSIBILITY WHEN WE DRAW THE LINES, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN OR HISPANIC ON THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. AND THE NEED -- THERE'S A NEED TO EITHER INCREASE THE BOARD TO ENSURE MINORITY REPRESENTATION. WOULD YOU SUPPORT INCREASING THE BOARD FROM SEVEN MEMBERS TOE EIGHT, TO NINE MEMBERS? >> I WILL SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT GUARANTEED THAT THERE WILL BE ADEQUATE REPRESENTATION FROM THE MINORITY COMMUNITY. AND I WILL OPPOSE ANYTHING THAT DID NOT. >>GERALD WHITE: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. BOARD MEMBERS, I THOUGHT WE WOULD WORK AT THIS UNTIL ABOUT 7:00 AND THEN TAKE A BREAK. THE COUNTY ATTORNEY -- MR. TINKLER, DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION FOR US THIS EVENING? >>KENNETH TINKLER: GOOD EVENING, BOARD MEMBERS. KEN TINKLER, ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY. JUST A BRIEF UPDATE. WE ARE WORKING ON THE BALLOT LANGUAGE THAT YOU PRESENTED TO THE RESOLUTION YOU PASSED LAST TIME. WE ARE WORKING TO ENSURE THAT IT GOES ON THE 2002 BALLOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH SECTIONS 8.02 AND 8.04 OF THE CHARTER. THAT IS ALL I HAVE -- OH, ON THE OATH ISSUE. THE LETTER THAT YOU PRESENTED TO THE BOARD HAS BEEN AT THE NEXT MEETING, AND THEY HAVE REQUESTED IT FOR THE NEXT MEETING AS A PROPOSED CHANGE. IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE, I WILL BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. MS. MERRITT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE YOUR REPORT? THANK YOU, MR. TINKLER. JUST BEFORE BARBARA COMES UP, BOARD MEMBERS, I HAVE ASKED THAT THE TWO LEGAL OPINIONS THAT RELATE TO WHAT THE STATE STATUTES SAY AND WHAT WE CAN DO WITH THE CHARTER BE COPIED TO Y'ALL. I THINK IT WILL BE COMING TO YOU IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO. ALSO, I HAVE ASKED THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO DO A SERIOUS REPORT ON THAT FOR OUR NEXT MEETING IF THEY CAN HAVE IT PUT TOGETHER BY THEN. I THINK IT WILL HAVE SOME REAL IMPORTANCE AS TO WHAT THIS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD PROPOSES IF IT PROPOSES TO MAKE STRUCTURAL CHANGES. AND MS. MERRITT WILL BE GETTING THAT TO YOU. THANK YOU. MERE MERE GOOD EVENING, BOARD MEMBERS. I HAVE BEEN BUSY. I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN READING YOUR PACKETS BECAUSE I'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF COMMENTS. OUR CONFIRMED FUTURE SPEAKER IS MAYOR GRECO. HE WILL BE HERE ON OCTOBER 12th. THE NEXT TWO MEETINGS, I HAVE NO SCHEDULED SPEAKERS. REPRESENTATIVE LES MILLER CALLED ME. AND HE APOLOGIZED. HE SAID HE WITH BIKE TO COME AND ADDRESS THE BOARD AFTER PRIMARY SEASON AND SENDS HIS BEST WISHES. MR. HOSLER FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION STILL HAS NO CENSUS UPDATE INFORMATION FOR US. I AM CHECKING WEEKLY WITH HIM ON THAT. TONIGHT, THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IS HOLDING THEIR TOWN HALL MEETING IN PLANT CITY. THE NEXT BOARD MEETING FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S TOWN HALL MEETING WILL BE IN TOWN N' COUNTRY. AND IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE 26th OF OCTOBER, WHICH IS ALSO ONE OF OUR SCHEDULED MEETINGS. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT TO CHANGE OUR MEETING OR KEEP EVERYTHING AS IS. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO FIND OUT THIS EVENING. >>JAN SMITH: I -- MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IS THE ISSUE BECAUSE OF TELEVISION? WE WOULDN'T BE LIVE. >> YOU WOULDN'T BE LIVE, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE PREFERENCE OF THE BOARD IS. IF SOME OF YOU WANT TO GO AND PARTICIPATE IN THAT TOWN HALL MEETING. SOME OF YOU LIVE OUT IN THAT AREA. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WOULD SUGGEST WE KEEP OUR SAME SCHEDULE. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OBJECTION TO CHANGING IT? OKAY. WE'LL STAY ON THE SAME SCHEDULE. >> I THOUGHT THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM BUT I WANTED TO RUN IT PAST YOU. I HAVE AN UPDATED BUDGET REPORT TO YOU. YEAR TO DATE, WE SPEND $15,143.68. THERE ARE SOME PRINTING CHARGES THAT I DON'T HAVE YET POSTED. BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GET THE BILL. >>JAN SMITH: ANY QUESTIONS? MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: MADAM CHAIRMAN, I SUSPECT THAT GIVEN ISSUES THAT WILL WE'LL BE DISCUSSING COMING UP, THAT HOPEFULLY THERE WILL -- THE PRESS WILL BE CALLING AND ASKING FOR INFORMATION OR ASKING OUR OPINIONS, AND POSSIBLY EVEN SOME OF THE GOVERNMENT SHOWS, EITHER CITY OR COUNTY OR MAYBE EVEN PUBLIC ACCESS, I DON'T KNOW, BUT SOME -- THEY MAY BE HOSTING SHOWS IN WHICH THEY MIGHT WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE COME. AND I THINK THAT CERTAINLY ANY BOARD MEMBER WHO IS ASKED, I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. I DID NOT WANT TO PUT BARBARA IN A POSITION THOUGH TO HAVE TO REPRESENT US OR SPEAK ON OUR BEHALF. I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR TO HER AND I DON'T THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE, TO BE CANDID. SO I WOULD HOPE THAT MS. MERRITT ISN'T GOING TO ACCEPT ANY SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS OR IS GOING TO SPEAK ON OUR BEHALF IF THE PRESS CALLS. I THINK SHE NEEDS TO JUST GIVE A LIST OF, HERE ARE THE BOARD MEMBERS AND THEIR PHONE NUMBERS. BECAUSE I JUST DON'T WANT TO PUT HER IN A POSITION -- BECAUSE I KNOW HOW REPORTERS ARE GOING TO OPERATE. THEY ARE GOING TO ASK WHAT THE OPPOSITION WAS TO THIS, WHO SAID THIS, JUST UNFAIR TO HER. SHE'S WORKING PRETTY HARD FOR US, AND I DON'T WANT TO PUT HER IN AN AWKWARD SITUATION. >>JAN SMITH: I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF TRUST IN BARBARA MERRITT'S THOUGHT PROCESSES. SHE AND I HAD A BIT OF A DISCUSSION ON THIS. MS. MERRITT, GIVE AN OPINION TO THE BOARD. >> I WILL BE GLAD TO CONTACT ANY BOARD MEMBER. I'M A STAFF PERSON. I CAN ASSIST YOU APPROXIMATE PUBLIC RECORDS AND PRESS RELEASES. OTHER THAN THAT, YOU NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD OR THE COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ANY INFORMATION. AND MR. WHITE KNOWS HOW HARD I'VE WORKED. AND I'VE NOT BEEN POLITICAL AT ALL. IT'S BEEN A LONG, HARD SEASON. AND EVEN MS. LASHER WAS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD LAST WEEK, AND I SAID I'M SORRY I CAN'T DO ANYTHING POLITICALLY. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THAT WASN'T MY SUGGESTION. >> I'M JUST TELLING YOU THAT IT'S MY POLICY. YOU ARE THE BOARD MEMBERS; IT'S YOUR OPINION THAT COUNTS, NOT MINE. >>JAN SMITH: AND ALL OF YOU PROBABLY WILL ULTIMATELY BE ASKED TO SPEAK AT THAT MEETING, A PUBLIC MEETING, AND AS LONG AS IT IS A VERY PUBLIC MEETING, THE TV SHOWS, WHATEVER, PLEASE FEEL COMFORTABLE GOING AND SPEAKING YOUR OPINION. AT THIS POINT, I WOULDN'T THINK THAT ANY OF US WOULD WANT TO TAKE AN OPINION OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD AS A WHOLE, EXCEPT PERHAPS THE EXPLANATION OF THE VOTE THAT PASSED 10-3 FOR THE AUDITOR, AND TO REPRESENT THAT AS IT WAS PASSED I THINK IS CERTAINLY ACCEPTABLE. >> AND IF YOU WILL -- >>JAN SMITH: YOU ALL WILL BE INVITED TO SPEAK, AND I THINK YOU SHOULD DO IT AND ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE. >> IF YOU ARE APPEARING SOMEWHERE AND YOU NEED THE BACK-UP OR EXTRA COPIES OF SOMETHING, GIVE ME A CALL, E-MAIL, FAX IT, I'LL HAVE IT DELIVERED TO YOU. NO PROBLEM. >>GERALD WHITE: MADAM CHAIR, IN MY MIND, YOU, AS CHAIR, IS THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THIS BOARD. I WOULD HOPE THAT ANY MEDIA REQUESTS THROUGH THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR WILL GO TO YOU AND YOU WOULD DEAL WITH THE MEDIA AND THE PUBLIC ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD. THAT'S -- I BELIEVE THAT'S THE FIRST STOP. >>JAN SMITH: IF I'M ABLE TO ANSWER THEIR QUESTION, I'LL BE HAPPY TO. BUT IF I CAN'T, I WILL REFER TO THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITIES. >>GERALD WHITE: DID I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MS. MERRITT. I WAS TRYING TO GET SOMEONE FROM THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY TO COME BEFORE OUR BOARD. AND I SPOKE WITH REPRESENTATIVE HENRIQUEZ. HAVE YOU HEARD FROM HIM? >> YES, I HAVE. AND HE SAID THAT HE IS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION AT THIS POINT. AND YOU KNOW, HE'S IN THE MIDDLE OF A CAMPAIGN AND TALKED TO ANN IN THE OFFICE. SENT THEM ALL THE INFORMATION AND THEY WILL GET BACK TO US AS SOON AS THEY HAVE SOME TIME. YOU KNOW, ONCE A MONTH, I CALL BACK TO MAKE SURE. >>GERALD WHITE: A LOT OF THE CITIZENS THAT HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF POLITICAL PARTICIPATION HAVE MOVED INTO EITHER A JUDGE -- MOST OF THEM HAVE MOVED INTO JUDGESHIPS, AND WE HAVE A FEW THAT ARE ELECTED ON THE CITY COUNCIL AND SO ON. IF WE CAN GET SOMEONE FROM THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY TO COME BEFORE OUR BOARD, I THINK THAT WILL BE VERY, VERY HELPFUL. SOMEONE WHO IS KNOWLEDGEABLE AND BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE TO GIVE A TRUE FEELING OF WHAT'S GOING ON. YOU KNOW, HE'S A PART OF THE BOARD, SO WE ARE TRYING TO -- >>DAVID HURLEY: DOES THAT MAKE HIM NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OR BACKGROUND IN THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY? I THINK THIS MAN, YOU KNOW, HAS GOT BACKGROUND THAT I WISH WE COULD GET FROM ANYWHERE. I WANT TO USE HIM. HE'S A RESOURCE. >>GERALD WHITE: WELL, I'M REQUESTING THAT EVERYONE LOOK FOR AN ADDITIONAL RESOURCE. >> WE HAVE ONE BACK HERE. MS. RYDBERG. SHE CAN SPEAK AS A CITIZEN. >>JAN SMITH: PERHAPS IF THERE IS A MEMBER FROM THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY ON THE CITY COUNCIL THAT HAS CERTAINLY HAD A GREAT DEAL OF EXPERIENCE. I WONDER IF YOU MIGHT INVITE ANY MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL TO COME. IS GRECO HISPANIC? HE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A -- OR IS HE SICILIAN. >> WHAT I WILL DO IS GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS AND I WILL GET WITH MR. BELTRAN AFTER THE MEETING AND SEE IF WE CAN DO SOME BRAINSTORMING. >>JAN SMITH: YOU MAY ALSO CHECK IN YBOR CITY WITH ANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS IN YBOR, THE YBOR CHAMBER. PERHAPS THE ITALIAN CLUB. >>JAN SMITH: WHEN WE DID THE BUSINESSES, I DID DO THE HISPANIC CHAMBER. >> I CAN GIVE HER SOME NAMES -- >>JAN SMITH: COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. >> I CAN HELP PROVIDE SOME NAMES ALSO. THERE'S AN ORGANIZATION CALLED LULAC, AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY. I THINK WHAT I SAID BEFORE IN TERMS OF EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT. I THINK SOME PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THESE HEARINGS ARE GOING ON. I KNOW YOU DO GIVE PUBLIC NOTICE, AND THEY ARE PUT IN THE PAPER, BUT SOMETIMES A NEWS RELEASE IS BETTER THAN A NOTICE. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. >> AND I'LL GIVE YOU SOME NAMES. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU MS. MERRITT. BOARD MEMBERS, I KNOW YOU SEE HER SITTING OUT THERE. THAT'S OUR CONFLICT ATTORNEY. AND SHE'S HERE TO SETTLE CONFLICTS BETWEEN US THIS EVENING. MR. BELTRAN. >> I'LL BE VERY HAPPY TO INVITE HALF OF THE COMMUNITY IF YOU WOULD LIKE, BEGINNING WITH CHARLIE MIRANDA, WHO WAS MY STUDENT TOO. >> NOW, I HAVE A GOOD OPENING. >> AND JUDGE ALVAREZ, ALSO MY STUDENT. AND WE CAN HAVE GASTON FERNANDEZ, ALSO A JUDGE, AND A GOOD NUMBER OF THEM I KNOW THEM PERSONALLY. IF I CAN HELP IN ANYWAY WITH THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY, I WILL BE MORE THAN GLAD TO TALK TO ANYBODY. >>JAN SMITH: I KNOW YOU DID THAT DOING THAT TV SHOW AND ALL. THE MORE YOU CAN DO TO BRING MORE PEOPLE DOWN HERE, THE MORE WE'LL APPRECIATE SERVING WITH YOU. MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: I'VE GOT A CONCERN. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE GENERATING PAROCHIALISM TO SPEAK. I HAVE A SON-IN-LAW NAME GONZALEZ AND PARGO. I HATE TO BE PUTTING THIS THING -- WELL, WE'VE GOT TO HEAR FROM THESE GROUPS BECAUSE WE ARE ALL CITIZENS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND WHAT COMES OUT OF THIS HAS TO SERVE ALL THE CITIZENS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, EVERYONE OF THEM. THERE'S ASIAN COMMUNITY IN THIS COUNTY TOO. I HAPPEN TO SPEAK ONE OF THOSE LOS ANGELES. AT THE SAME TIME, IT REALLY -- I GET OFFENDED WHEN WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS -- WE'RE DOING MORE PAROCHIALISM THAN WE EVER HAD AND WE TALK ABOUT INCLUSIVENESS, BUT WE ARE MAKING SEPARATISM AT THE SAME TIME. IF WE ARE HAVING INTEGRATION WE ARE ALL HERE, IF IT IS SEPARATISM WITH WE ARE ALL SEPARATE. >>JAN SMITH: THE GOVERNMENT DID THAT YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FILL OUT ANY QUESTIONNAIRE FILLING OUT WHAT YOU ARE. AND SO -- BUT I DO THINK ANY EFFORT THAT ANY BOARD MEMBERS, MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC OR ORGANIZATION CAN MAKE TO BRING PEOPLE WITH DIVERSE INTERESTS TO THIS BOARD WOULD BE AN ADVANTAGE TO ALL OF US. MR. BELTRAN. >> IN REFERENCE TO THAT, I CAN TELL YOU THAT MOST OF THESE PEOPLE ARE BORN AND RAISED IN TAMPA. AND THE LATIN COMMUNITY INCLUDES EVERYBODY. WHEN WE SAY IT IS A LATIN NAME LIKE GONZALEZ, GARCIA, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU SAY ANDY GARCIA, THE ACTOR. HE'S MY COUSIN. >>JAN SMITH: BRING HIM. >> BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING -- IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THE LAST NAME THAT ALWAYS HAS DISTINGUISHED TAMPA FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD BECAUSE WE ARE A MIXED COMMUNITY AND EVERYBODY HERE HAS DIFFERENT CULTURES IN A WAY, BUT ALL GO BACK TO WHAT WE CALL THE COMMUNITY, THE TAMPA CULTURE. BUT IT'S NOT A MATTER OF BEING HISPANIC OR BEING THIS OR BEING THAT, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW THIS INDIVIDUAL WILL FILL -- FEEL AND THE WAY HE IS. TO ME DENNY ALVAREZ. HE'S JUST A JUDGE. HE GREW UP IN TAMPA. HIS MAIN LANGUAGE IS ENGLISH. IT'S NOT SPANISH. BUT I TAUGHT THEM SPANISH. I THINK HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO IT TOO. LIKE DICK GRECO TOOK SPANISH WITH ME AND HE'S STILL WORKING ON IT. >>JAN SMITH: I THINK IT WILL BE FUN TO GET ALL OF YOUR STUDENTS IN HERE. >> IT WILL BE FUN AFTER 43 YEARS OF TEACHING. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. THAT CONCLUDES ALL OF OUR HOUSEKEEPING. AND AGAIN THANKS TO MS. TOKELY FOR COMING THIS EVENING. BOARD MEMBERS, IT'S ALMOST QUARTER TO SEVEN. WE COULD PROBABLY BEGIN ANY OPEN DELIBERATIONS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE AND THEN TAKE A BREAK AT 7:30 OR TAKE A BREAK NOW AND GIVE THE NEXT TWO HOURS OVER TO OPEN DISCUSSION. WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? ALL RIGHT. YOU CHICKENS. >>GERALD WHITE: WELL, I HAVE AN ISSUE THAT I WANTED TO -- MADAM CHAIR. >>DENISE LASHER: WHETHER WE ARE BREAKING OR NOT FIRST. >>JAN SMITH: YOU SAY -- WE'LL GO UNTIL 7:30 AND THEN FOLLOW OUR SEMIRULES OF ORDER AS TO HOW TO PROCEED. MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: OKAY. I MET -- I HAD A CONFERENCE CALL WITH THE INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA RELATED TO POSSIBLY CONDUCTING A SURVEY FOR THIS BOARD. A SURVEY -- IT WOULD BE PRETTY EXPENSIVE. IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE BETWEEN $15,000 AND $17,000. AND I SAID, WOW. THE QUESTIONS WOULD COME THIS THIS BOARD AND RANGE FROM THE ISSUES ABOUT STRUCTURE AND SO ON THAT WE WILL SEE FIT. AND JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT TO THE BOARD -- DR. SUSAN MacMANUS WOULD HEAD THE STUDY ALONG WITH THE INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT THAT CAN OVERALL CONDUCT THE PROGRAM IF WE SAW FIT. THERE WILL BE NO PROBLEM WITH BIDDING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEIR A GOVERNMENT AFFILIATED INSTITUTION. THEY CAN WORK DIRECTLY FOR US WITHOUT JUMPING THROUGH ALL THOSE TYPE OF THE HOOPS. IT WOULD BE UP TO THE PLEASURE OF THIS BOARD TO HAVE HER COME AND DO A FORMAL PRESENTATION ON THE SURVEY AND WHAT WE WOULD WANT IN IT AND SAMPLE THE CITIZENS ON ISSUES THAT WE CARE ABOUT. BUT IT'S NOT CHEAP. >>JAN SMITH: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE GREAT HOPE FOR, AND I HAD INTENDED TO TALK TO MS. MERRITT ABOUT THIS, IS LETTING ALL OF THE ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY FROM THE VARIOUS CHAMBERS, ROTARIES, KIWANIS, ALL THOSE ORGANIZATIONS KNOW WHAT THIS BOARD IS DOING AND ALSO GIVE THEM A LIST OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS, AND HAVE THEM PERHAPS INVITE ANY ONE OF YOU TO COME AND BE A GUEST AND SPEAK. I THINK THAT YOU GET A DIFFERENT REACTION FROM PEOPLE IN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THAT RATHER THAN SENDING OUT SURVEYS. THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. ALSO BECAUSE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA HAS DONE A COUPLE OF THESE IN THE PAST. DR. MENZEL DID ONE SEVERAL YEARS AGO. THE COUNTY HAS ALSO DONE A SURVEY RECENTLY THAT -- MS. MERRITT, WERE THE RESULTS OF THAT SURVEY GIVEN TO THE BOARD? I THINK WE ALL RECEIVED -- I HAVE IT. DIDN'T EVERYONE GET THAT? I'M NOT INCLINED TO LOOK INTO A SURVEY, BUT I'LL LET THE REST OF THE BOARD SPEAK. MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT. I BELIEVE WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE COME AND SPEAK. WE HAVE PEOPLE SPEAK ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE. LAST MEETING WE HAD SENATOR HARGRETT, REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY COME AND SPEAK. THEY HAD A POSITION WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO WHAT MR. CARDUCHI, MR. HUGHES, A COUPLE OF PEOPLE TONIGHT HAD TO SAY. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CHARTER THAT WE SHOULD BE DRIVEN BY POLLS AND STUDY THE ISSUE OF GOVERNANCE AND THEN OFFER IT TO THE PEOPLE AND THAT'S THE FINAL POLL AND THAT'S THE ONE THAT REALLY COUNTS. I -- I HAVE A VERY JAUNDICED LOOK WHEN I SEE THE POLL NUMBERS ON ANYTHING. BECAUSE I KNOW I CAN ASK A QUESTION TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT WAYS, AND WE HAVE THREE ATTORNEYS SITTING HERE AND THEY CERTAINLY KNOW THAT. BECAUSE WHEN THEY ASK A QUESTION, THEY TRY TO STYLE THE QUESTION TO GET THE ANSWER THEY WANT. I'M SORRY, GUYS. >>JAN SMITH: ARE YOU GOING TO PUT UP WITH THAT? >>DAVID HURLEY: I'VE DONE SOME EXPERT WITNESS WORK MYSELF SO I'VE SEEN THAT IN ACTION. I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO BE ABOUT THE BUSINESS THAT WE HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH. OF WHICH WE HAVE BEEN CHARGED, EXCUSE ME. I DIDN'T MEAN TO DANGLE THAT PREP SIGNIFICANCES. >> WE HAD TALKED SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ABOUT TAKING SOME OF OUR MEETINGS OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY. DID WE MAKE A DECISION ON THAT? OR CAN WE MAYBE GO AHEAD AND DISCUSS -- NOW MAY BE A REAL GOOD TIME TO GO OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE I THINK IT'S DIFFICULT SOMETIMES -- OR PEOPLE FEEL IT IS DIFFICULT TO COME DOWNTOWN WITH THE PARKING. MAYBE THAT WAY WE CAN GET A LITTLE MORE PARTICIPATION. CAN WE DISCUSS THAT POSSIBILITY? >>JAN SMITH: I THINK WE HAD SOME COMMENTS BACK FROM THE COUNTY COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT ON THAT. AND MS. MERRITT, WE TALKED ABOUT THE COST OF DOING IT AND THE PROBLEM WITH VIDEO AND ALL. DO YOU WANT TO GIVE US A RESTATEMENT OF THAT, PLEASE? >> I DON'T THINK THAT IT WILL BE A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, FOR THEM TO DO THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS. WE HAVE TO BE AWARE -- LIKE WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THEY ARE OUT THERE. WE HAVE TO WORK IN WITH OTHER SCHEDULES. THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS, BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE A SET SCHEDULE WHEN WE'RE MEETING, THAT'S WHEN MAYBE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADJUST YOUR SCHEDULE. THE APPROXIMATE COST FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD WHEN THE HTV GOES OUT WITH THEIR CAMERA IS ABOUT $2,000 A MEETING. AND I WENT BACK AND I REVIEWED THE RECORDS FROM 1995 AND 1991, AND THE HIGHEST ATTENDANCE THAT WE HAD AT ANY MEETING THAT WAS OUTSIDE THE COUNTY CHAMBERS WAS 12 PEOPLE. THAT'S -- THAT'S JUST A HISTORICAL, YOU KNOW, PERSPECTIVE. I JUST DON'T KNOW -- I'LL BE GLAD -- THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES DO HAVE PLACES WHERE WE CAN MEET. I'LL BE GLAD TO WORK WITH HTV TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY HAVE RAY AVAILABLE. YOU ALL HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR SCHEDULES AND WORK AROUND IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE MEETING NIGHT. >> DOES THAT $2,000 COME OUT OF OUR BUDGET? >>JAN SMITH: NOT A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT IF YOU THINK IF WE DID ONE OR TWO, IT WOULD BE CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE COULD DO. >> I PERMANENTLY THINK THAT IT IS IMPORTANT. I UNDERSTAND IN THE PAST THE PARTICIPATION HAS BEEN LOW. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY IN THE COMMUNITY. WE NEED TO HEAR FROM THEM. WE NEED TO BE OUT THERE. I'D ASK THE BOARD TO BE A LITTLE FLEXIBLE AND MAYBE CONSIDER -- CONSIDER HOLDING, MAYBE ADDITIONAL MEETING OR TOWN HALL MEETINGS TO MAKE THE EFFORT THAT WE REALLY DO WANT TO HEAR FROM ALL OF THE CITIZENS. >>JAN SMITH: I THINK THAT THE SCHEDULE THAT WE HAVE SET UP, AND IT WAS DONE INTENTIONALLY THAT WE NOT ADD ANY MORE SPEAKERS TO THIS EVENING'S MEETING, AND THE NEXT TWO BE TOTALLY FOR DISCUSSION OF STRUCTURE OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT, ANY CHANGES TO THE EXISTING CHARTER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR STRUCTURE CHANGE. AND I THINK THAT IT MIGHT BE MORE ADVANTAGEOUS AFTER WE HAVE DONE THAT AND HAVE SOME CONCRETE FEELINGS ABOUT WHERE THIS BOARD IS CONSIDERING TAKING THE WHOLE ISSUE AND THEN PERHAPS CONSIDERING IT FOR IN OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER. I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANT TO DO IT IN DECEMBER. THERE WOULD BE -- AND EVEN HALFWAY THROUGH NOVEMBER, YOU BEGIN TO GET INTO THE HOLIDAY SEASON AND PEOPLE'S SCHEDULES NOT FLEXIBLE AT ALL. MR. AMBLER. >> JUST ONE OBSERVATION, MADAM CHAIR, AND THAT IS IN LOOKING BACK OVER OUR ATTENDANCE AND PARTICIPATION BY THE COMMUNITY OVER THE PAST MANY MONTHS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN MEETING. IT SEEMS APPARENT TO ME THAT THE ONLY TIME WE HAVE HAD A REAL TURNOUT ON THE PART OF THE PUBLIC, WITNESS OUR LAST TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THE INTERNAL PERFORMANCE AUDITOR, IS WHEN WE HAD A SPECIFIC ISSUES UP FOR CONSIDERATION. AND PEOPLE FELT NOW THEIR OPINION WOULD BE HEARD AND FOCUSED RATHER THAN A BROAD RANGE OF WE WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT. I WAS VERY IMPRESSED AT OUR LAST TWO MEETINGS OF THE NUMBER OF FOLKS THAT SHOWED UP. ESPECIALLY THE LAST ONE, BOTH PRO AND CON. I FELT IT GAVE THE BOARD A VERY GOOD INSIGHT OF THE CROSS-SECTION OF OUR COMMUNITY OF HOW THEY FELT ON A PARTICULAR ISSUE. I THINK THAT SENDS A SIGNAL AT LEAST FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THAT THE BEST PLACE FOR THIS BOARD TO GO IS TO TACKLE MAYBE ONE OR TWO MORE SPECIFIC ISSUES AND GET THOSE SPECIFIC ISSUES IN THE FORM OF A MOTION OUT THERE. IT MAY NOT ULTIMATELY END ON THE BALLOT, BUT THE POINT IS THE PROCESS OF GETTING TO PUBLIC HEARING WAS A VERY DYNAMIC ONE AND THE ONE THAT SAW THE MOST PARTICIPATION BY OUR COMMUNITY. >>JAN SMITH: YES. MS. LASHER. >>DENISE LASHER: I GUESS I WOULD AGREE WITH THE LAST TWO COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE. I THINK WHAT WOULD WORK -- I LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY OF GOING TO THE OUTSIDE COMMUNITY. BRANDON IS ONE WE COULD GO TO. PLANT CITY. ANOTHER ONE UP IN THE CARROLLWOOD AREA PULLING FROM NEW TAMPA ALL THE WAY OVER TO TOWN N' COUNTRY. BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE MOST EFFECTIVE IS IF WE DID IT AFTER WE HAD SOME ITEMS OR SOME PARTICULAR THINGS THAT WE WANTED TO CONSIDER CHANGING AND THEN GET THE COMMENTS AND THEN CAST OUR VOTES TO SEE WHETHER WE WANT TO PUT THAT ISSUE ON THE BALLOT. PERHAPS WHAT WE CAN DO IS GO DOWN OUR LIST OF -- YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH OUR CHARTER AND ANY STRUCTURAL CHANGES WE WANT TO MAKE, HAVE OUR DISCUSSION, GATHER INFORMATION, MAYBE COME BACK AND HAVE SOME PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE. HAVE OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS, OR TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS IN TWO DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE COUNTY AND THEN RECONVENE AND THEN CAST OUR VOTES ON THE DIFFERENT ITEMS. IF WE CAN HAVE, LIKE, A MENU OF THINGS WE ARE CONSIDERING CHANGING. THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING AFTER THE NEXT SEVERAL MEETING. WE MAY COME UP AND THE GROUP DECIDES THERE IS NOTHING WE REALLY WANT TO CHANGE. BUT I SAY THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A FEW PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE SOME CHANGES AND GO AHEAD AND FURTHER THAT INFORMATION, CREATE THE PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE, AGAIN, IT IS ONLY PROPOSED, AND HAVE OUR TWO MEETINGS AND THEN COME BACK AND VOTE ON IT. WE HAVE TO BE COMPLETED BY FEBRUARY. SO WE STILL HAVE TIME TO GET -- GET THOSE THINGS DONE AND BE FINISHED BY FEBRUARY, I THINK. >>JAN SMITH: LET ME SAY ONE THING. I THINK IF YOU ARE GOING TO PROPOSE TO GO INTO ANY AREA OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE FOUR DISTRICTS AND PROPOSE TO GO INTO ALL FOUR OF THEM, OR IT'S NOT WHAT I WOULD CALL A FAIR HEARING TO THE PEOPLE OUT THERE. MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST THE SAME THING. IT WOULD BE FAIR FOR US TO GO TO EACH OF THE FOUR COUNTIES OR FOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS IN THE COUNTY. I ALSO STRONGLY THINK THAT OUR -- ANY PUBLIC HEARING WE HAVE ON A PROPOSED REFERENDUM SHOULD BE IN THIS BUILDING. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE IN -- OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE IN THIS BUILDING TO GIVE EVERYBODY EQUAL ACCESS. >>JAN SMITH: MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE HAD A COMMUNITY FORUM, AND WE USED THIS ROOM, BUT WE ALSO HAD A CALL-IN NUMBER THAT WENT ON ACROSS WITH A CRAWL ACROSS THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN AND PEOPLE COULD CALL IN AND UP IN THE COMMUNICATIONS ROOM, THEY TRANSCRIBED THEM, BROUGHT THEM DOWN TO US. I THINK THAT CAN GET MORE PARTICIPATION THAN PROBABLY ANY LOCATION WE COULD GO TO BECAUSE JUST ABOUT -- THERE ARE TELEPHONES ALL OVER THIS COUNTY NOW. JUST AMAZING. CELL PHONES IN EVERY POCKET. >> THERE'S A WAY WE CAN TRANSFER OUR CHARTER REVIEW BOARD PHONE DOWN TO HERE. THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO SUGGEST. I DID PARTICIPATE IN THE CITIZEN FORUM. PEOPLE ON THE AUDIENCE GOT CUT DOWN TO TWO MINUTES, BUT THE ONES ON THE PHONE GOT THEIR TIME IN. STEVE VALDEZ AND PATRICK MURRAY IN THE PUBLIC WORKS AND COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT OFFERED SOME SUGGESTION AND WERE WILLING TO OFFER SUGGESTIONS AND HELP ME SET IT UP. I WILL BE WILLING TO TRY IT. >>JAN SMITH: PERHAPS YOU AND I COULD SIT WITH THESE TWO AND SEE WHAT WE CAN WORK OUT. I WOULD PREFER TO DO IT AFTER THE 28th BECAUSE I THINK WE HAVE SET ASIDE THAT TIME FOR US, AND I THINK WE NEED TO STICK WITH THAT. MS. WILLIAMS. >>DEE WILLIAMS: I THINK -- >> I THINK IF SOME OF YOU THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO GO OUT TO THE COMMUNITY. IF YOU GO OUT AND REVIEW THE TAPES OF THE MEETINGS WE TOOK OUT INTO THE COMMUNITIES IN 1985, YOU WILL FIND THAT MOST THINGS THEY TALKED TO US ABOUT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CHARTER AND WERE NOT EVEN ANYTHING WE COULD DEAL WITH. IF YOU GO BACK AND REVIEW THOSE TAPES. YOU WILL FIND THAT THEY WERE VERY FRUITLESS. >>JAN SMITH: THEY MOSTLY TALKED ABOUT ISSUES THAT WERE VERY MUCH IN RELATION TO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. >>DEE WILLIAMS: JUST LIKE THESE THINGS. NOTHING WE COULD DEAL WITH. >>JAN SMITH: I DO THINK THE TELEPHONE -- WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT EARLIER AND I TALKED TO HELEN LEVINE ABOUT IT. WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT, MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: THE WAY THEY DID THE TELEPHONE. THEY TRANSCRIBED THE MESSAGES AND STEVE VALDEZ READ THEM INTO THE RECORD. NONE OF THEM WAS VERY LONG BECAUSE SOMEBODY UPSTAIRS HAD TO WRITE THEM DOWN. SO IT WASN'T REALLY AN ISSUE -- >>JAN SMITH: DID YOU FIND MANY -- WERE THEY JUST COMMENTS THAT CAME IN, OR DID THEY ASK QUESTIONS AND WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANSWERING THE CALLS? >>DAVID HURLEY: WE WERE NOT RESPONDING TO QUESTIONS. WE WERE ASKING FOR COMMENTS. IF I RECALL, THERE WERE ABOUT 11 PEOPLE THAT CALLED IN. IN A THREE-HOUR PERIOD, 11 PEOPLE CALLING IN DURING THE DAY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY DRAMATIC. >>GERALD WHITE: I BELIEVE WHAT MADE THAT SET-UP SO SUCCESSFUL WAS THE COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD OFFICE. THE NEIGHBORHOOD LIAISON OFFICE BROUGHT ALL THE CIVIC ASSOCIATIONS AND ALL THOSE GROUPS TOGETHER AND IT WAS TOTAL COMMUNITY INPUT AND THIS ROOM WAS PACKED. IT WAS A VERY THOROUGH PRAYING. >>JAN SMITH: SHELLY BLOOD NOW. >> I HAVE A MEETING WITH SHELLY. >>JAN SMITH: PERHAPS MS. LEVINE WOULD LIKE TO SIT IN ON IT WHEN SHE'S NOT TRAVELING BACK AND FORTH TO TALLAHASSEE. >>GERALD WHITE: I DID INVESTIGATE WITH THAT. I DID MEET WITH THE INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT. IT IS EXPENSIVE TO POLL CITIZENS ON CRITICAL QUESTIONS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT HAVING A BROAD PERSPECTIVE FROM THE COMMUNITY. AND MAYBE THIS COMMUNITY FORUM THAT WE MIGHT BE HAVING MAY -- MAY ADDRESS THAT. >> MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: MR. AMBLER. >> I THOUGHT I MIGHT OFFER THIS COMMENT TO THE BOARD. COMMISSIONER NORMAN HAS WALKED NEARLY 10,000 HOMES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS OF HIS CONSTITUENTS. GETTING OUT -- THIS IS SOMETHING HE DID WHEN HE FIRST RAN FOR OFFICE. HE MADE THIS A HALLMARK OF HIS SERVING IN OFFICE AS A COMMISSIONER TO TRY TO GET TO THE PEOPLE HIMSELF AND NOT BE GUIDED BY POLLS OR WHAT THE NEWSPAPER SAYS. WE ALL KNOW HOW ACCURATE THAT IS. AND I SOUGHT OUT AND CALLED HIS OFFICE BECAUSE I HAD HEARD THAT HE HAD BEEN WALKING NEIGHBORHOODS FOR THESE PAST MANY MONTHS. AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE ARE TRYING TO DO WORK ON THE CHARTER REVIEW. WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE POLLS. WE HAVE PEOPLE APPROACH US FROM THE PUBLIC SAY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD OR THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE. I MEAN, SOMEBODY WHO HAS TALKED TO, YOU KNOW, OR VISITED 10,000 HOMES, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY OUT THERE IS LOOKING FOR, WHAT IS ON THEIR MIND. I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD PASS THE COMMENT ALONG TO THE BOARD THAT A MAYORAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S ON THEIR MIND. WHAT IS ON THEIR MIND IS PRINCIPALLY GROWTH MANAGEMENT. THAT'S THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT HAS COME UP ON REPEATED VISIT, MONTH AFTER MONTH, TO THESE HOMES. AND THAT ISN'T SOMETHING NECESSARILY FOR THIS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. WHAT I WANT TO SUGGEST IS IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE PULSE OF THE COMMUNITY. HERE YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS A SITTING COMMISSIONER WHO HAS TAKEN THE PULSE OF 10,000 OF OUR RESIDENTS AND THAT'S WHAT IS ON THEIR MINDS. IF WE THINK THERE IS THIS MAJOR SURGE OUT THERE FOR MAYORAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT, I THINK WE ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. I THINK THERE IS A SELECT FEW POLITICIAN IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT HAVE GENERATED FERVOR PROBABLY FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL ENDS TO SUGGEST THAT THIS IS SOMETHING TO BE DONE. AND WHAT THAT SUGGESTS TO ME IS THEY THINK THAT THE PRESENT SYSTEM IS BROKEN INSTEAD OF READING THAT SOME OF THE ACRIMONY, PERHAPS, CHARACTERIZED ON COMMISSION IS NOTHING MORE THAN DEMOCRACY IN ACTION. I MEAN, EVEN ON THIS OWN BOARD, WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN VIEWS AND WE HAVE ALL SEEN FIT TO EXPRESS THEM. WE ALL DON'T AGREE WITH EACH OTHER AND THE PRESS REPORTS THAT AS ACRIMONY AND DISSENSION. WE NEED TO GET OUT ALL THE IDEAS WITH ALL POINTS OF VIEW AND THEN COME TO SOME CONSENSUS AND THEN WE HAVE A VOTE. WHAT I THINK IS -- YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE SENSITIVE TO IS TO NOT BE SO DRIVEN BY EVERY POLITICAL GROUP OUT THERE. WE HAVE A WONDERFUL, A WONDERFUL CROSS SECTION OF TALENT ON THIS BOARD FROM ALL SECTORS OF THE COMMUNITY. AND WE HAVE EXPERIENCED MEMBERS ON THIS BOARD WHO HAVE SERVED ON PRIOR CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. DEE WILLIAMS WAS HERE IN THE LAST CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. YOU WERE AS WELL, MADAM CHAIR. I THINK WE SHOULD TAP INTO THE RESOURCES OF THAT REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. WE REPRESENT A BROAD CONSTITUENCY HERE. WE'VE GOT 14 PEOPLE WE HAVE TIME TO HEAR OUR VIEWS AND HAVE TIME TO VOTE AND GET WHATEVER RESEARCH TO GET DONE. I LIKE MADAM CHAIR'S SUGGESTION THAT WE USE THE TIME IN THE NEXT FEW MEETINGS FOR US AND THINK MORE OF THAT AND GET CONCRETE PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE AND GETTING PUBLIC OPINION IN HERE ON THE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MAYBE COMPLETE OUR MISSION WITH SEVERAL MORE PRODUCTIVE BALLOT MEASURES. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WAS THE ONE THAT MADE THE MOTION THAT WE TAKE THIS MEETING AND THE NEXT TWO MEETINGS AND TALK ABOUT STRUCTURE. SO FAR WE HAVE SPENT THE LAST HALF HOUR TALKING ABOUT OTHER THINGS. I AGREE WITH YOU, MR. AMBLER, LET'S GET ON. >>DEE WILLIAMS: YOU HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR? >>STEVE LaBOUR: NO. >>DEE WILLIAMS: OKAY. >>JAN SMITH: LET ME TELL YOU, BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT I TRIED TO DO MYSELF THE OTHER NIGHT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL DID THE EXERCISE OR NOT, BUT I MADE THREE COLUMNS ON A PIECE OF PAPER. THE FIRST COLUMN IS THE CURRENT STRUCTURE AND THEN QUESTION MARK ANY CHANGES. THE NEXT COLUMN WAS AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN, AS IN THE FORM OF EITHER ORANGE COUNTY OR LIKE TEMPLE TERRACE STRUCTURES THEIR GOVERNMENT. AND THEN THE ELECTED MAYOR. AND I STARTED OUT THINKING WHAT ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT I NEED TO ANSWER TO EVEN BEGIN THAT PROCESS. AND THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT ABOUT WAS REALLY BASIC TO ANYTHING THAT WE WOULD BE CONSIDERING, AND THAT WOULD BE WHETHER OR NOT THIS BOARD WANTS TO TAKE UP THE ISSUE OF PARTISAN-NONPARTISAN ELECTIONS, WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO DISCUSS TERM LIMITS, AND NUMBER OF COMMISSION DISTRICTS. AND EACH ONE OF THOSE PLAYS IN ANY OF THOSE STRUCTURES OF GOVERNMENT. WHICHEVER ONE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT. BUT AS I WAS GOING THROUGH IT, DIFFERENT THINGS CAME INTO MY MIND LIKE, IF -- UNDER ANY -- ANY THE THREE PROPOSALS, HOW WOULD I DEAL WITH APPOINTMENTS TO VARIOUS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. AND SO YOU START THINKING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD EITHER HAVE, PERHAPS, THE ELECTED CHAIRMAN MAKE THEM WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE BOARD OR YOU WOULD HAVE THE ELECTED EXECUTIVE MAKE THEM, OR MAYBE YOU WOULD RESERVE SOME FOR A CITY COUNCIL. SO IT SEEMED TO ME THAT EVERYTHING THAT I PUT ON MY LIST AS SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT ABOUT AS PERHAPS A CHANGE OR A RECOMMENDATION UNDER ANY OF THESE THREE FORMS LET ME WITH A CONSEQUENCE OF SOMETHING ELSE. SO IT BECAME VERY TEDIOUS. I HAD INTENDED TO TRY TO PRESENT SOMETHING TO YOU ALL. AND THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THE MORE CRAZY I LITERALLY GOT WHEN I WAS TRYING TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER. THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES OUT THERE. ANYTHING FROM EXECUTING CONTRACTS AND SIGNING ORDINANCES, STATE OF THE COUNTY MESSAGE, THE SPLIT ON THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THE SALARY, HOW TO DEAL WITH CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, HOW TO APPOINT IT. ONE OF THE -- I THINK SARASOTA COUNTY HAS AN ELECTED CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. THERE IS -- IN SOME OF THE COUNTIES, THEY HAVE AN OATH THAT IS PART OF THE CHARTER THAT REQUIRES PEOPLE COMING BEFORE THE BOARD ON ISSUES OF LAND USE AND ZONING TO SWEAR AN OATH THAT WE'RE TELLING THE TRUTH. THAT ISSUE, AS MS. WILLIAMS WILL REMEMBER, HAS BEEN DEBATED AT EVERY SINGLE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. AND I DON'T -- THE FIRST CHARTER REVIEW BOARD THAT I SERVED ON, WE HAD A SUBCOMMITTEE. AND I THINK WE SPENT TWO MEETINGS AND JUST TORE IT APART AND ULTIMATELY CAME BACK AND SAID THE STATE STATUTE SUFFICED. AND IN MANY OF THESE CASES, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. THE ISSUE OF VETO POWER, IF YOU CHANGE STRUCTURE. AND DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A ZONING -- AND HAVE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS JUST DEAL STRICTLY WITH LAND USE AND ZONING AND NOT GIVE AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE OR CHAIRMAN VETO OVER THAT. HOW ABOUT ORDINANCES. WHO PRESENTS AND PREPARES THEM. WHAT ABOUT THE BUDGET? AND SO IT STARTS OUT IN MY MIND AS A VERY SMALL QUESTION. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE STRUCTURE, AND DO YOU WANT AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN OR COMMISSION CHAIRMAN. AND THEN IT JUST BALLOONS INTO JUST A MYRIAD OF QUESTIONS AND THOUGHTS AND CONSEQUENCES OF WHATEVER YOU PROPOSE. SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHERE YOU ALL WANT TO START. SO WE COULD APPROACH THIS A COUPLE DIFFERENT WAYS. WE COULD SUSPEND THE RULES AND JUST HAVE A GENERAL CONFAB HERE. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE AN EASY WAY TO DO IT. IF YOU WOULD AT LEAST ALLOW ME THE CHALLENGE OR MS. RYDBERG OF KEEPING THE CONFLICT UNDER CONTROL. AND KEEPING THE DISCUSSION JUST CALM. HOW WOULD YOU ALL FEEL? DO YOU JUST WANT TO CHAT? OR DO YOU WANT TO FOLLOW RULES OF ORDER. MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: I THINK WE NEED TO FOLLOW SOME RULE OF ORDER WHERE YOU WILL CALL ON PEOPLE TO SPEAK. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THIS WITHOUT PEOPLE MAKING MOTIONS. YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF IDEAS I THINK WE SHOULD DISCUSS. I DON'T KNOW EVEN KNOW IF I LIKE THEM, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT SOME OF THE IDEAS THAT ARE FLOATING THROUGH MY BRAIN AND SEE IF MAYBE THEY CAN BE ADJUSTED OR MODIFIED AND PULLED AND PUSHED AND TURNED AND MAYBE THROW IT OVER THE SIDE AND SAY FORGET THAT ONE AND GO TO SOMETHING ELSE. BUT -- >>JAN SMITH: MS. WILLIAMS. >>DEE WILLIAMS: IT SEEMS TO ME WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT GOING THROUGH THIS BOOK. AND WE GOT TO PAGE 2. LEGISLATIVE BRANCH. NOW I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE OUGHT TO START. AND PROCEED FROM THERE. >>JAN SMITH: OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU START US THEN. >>GERALD WHITE: WELL, BEFORE SHE STARTS THAT, I THINK HE WAS ON TO SOMETHING BECAUSE ALL 14 OF US HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS AND DIFFERENT THOUGHTS ON WHAT THE FUTURE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE. AND BEFORE WE GO THROUGH THE BOOK, WHICH I THINK IS RIGHT, WE SHOULD HAVE THIS OPEN DIALOGUE AND CHIT-CHAT, IF YOU WILL, ALLOW THE CHAIR TO HANDLE IT AND MAINTAIN SOME ORDER. >> AFTER ALL, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT ANYWHERE ELSE, RIGHT? >>GERALD WHITE: AND WE SHOULD PURSUE THAT BECAUSE I HAVE A FEW THOUGHTS AS WELL. >>JAN SMITH: LET'S START WITH MS. WILLIAMS AND START AROUND THAT SIDE AND TAKE ONE FROM THIS SIDE AND ONE FROM THIS SIDE AND WE'LL GIVE FIVE MINUTES. JUST AS IF YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC LIKE YOU WERE JUST AN AVERAGE CITIZEN HERE TO COMMENT AND SEE WHAT HE IT STARTS. NOW, IF YOU'RE TALKING AND YOU END UP IN A CONVERSATION WITH MR. BALES OVER HERE, THAT'S OKAY, AS LONG AS IT'S JUST THE TWO OF YOU. WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE EVERYBODY TALK AT ONCE. SO, MS. WILLIAMS, YOU'RE UP. >>DEE WILLIAMS: WELL, NUMBER 1 ON THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE FOUR DISTRICTS. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THEY'RE DRAWN AFTER THE 2002 CENSUS, BUT I TELL YOU SOMETHING I AM VERY INTERESTED IN, AND THAT'S THE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. I PARTICULARLY LIKE WHAT PINELLAS COUNTY DID TO THEIRS. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS COUNTY SPLIT IN THIRDS. NORTH TO SOUTH. AND THE PERSON RUNNING AT-LARGE HAS TO RUN -- LIVE IN THE DISTRICT IN WHICH HE, SHE RUNS. AND, OF COURSE, THE WHOLE COUNTY WOULD VOTE ON THEM. I THINK THAT WILL GET SOME OF OUR CONCENTRATION OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OUT OF SOUTH TAMPA. BECAUSE THAT IS THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT THAT I HEAR IS ALL THE POWER IS IN SOUTH TAMPA. >>JAN SMITH: MAY I INTERRUPT YOU. >>DEE WILLIAMS: SURE, GO AHEAD. >>JAN SMITH: MR. TINKLER, CAN YOU TELL ME WHETHER IT IS LEGAL FOR US TO -- I THINK PERSONALLY I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE OBSERVATION. AND I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER IT IS LEGAL TO HAVE TWO SEPARATE DISTRICTS -- THE DISTRICT OF THE SINGLE MEMBERS AND THEN THE THREE DISTRICTS OF THE AT-LARGE. MS. WILLIAMS, ARE YOU SAYING YOU WILL HAVE THOSE THREE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS BUT EVERYBODY IN THE COUNTY WILL VOTE FOR THAT. >>DEE WILLIAMS: JUST LIKE THEY USED TO DO WITH THE SCHOOL BOARDS. >>JAN SMITH: WILL WE NEED A LEGAL OPINION ON THIS? >> WHAT MIGHT BE BEST IS GET THE LANGUAGE THAT PINELLAS IS USING AND PRESENT THAT TO THE BOARD. IT'S -- SEE EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE LAID OUT AND WHETHER -- EXCUSE ME, WHAT OTHER OPTIONS THERE ARE AS FAR AS RESIDENTIAL REQUIREMENTS. >>JAN SMITH: OKAY. IF YOU COULD DO THAT. >> WE'D BE HAPPY TO. >>JAN SMITH: MS. MERRITT CAN GET THAT INFORMATION TO THE BOARD SO THEY CAN READ IT BEFORE THEY COME TO THE NEXT MEETING SO THEY HAVE THAT INFORMATION. >> WE'LL HAVE IT OUT BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING. >>JAN SMITH: WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. >>DEE WILLIAMS: REMEMBER THE ADMINISTRATOR -- I THINK IT WAS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THAT SPOKE US TO. I THINK THAT'S HIS TITLE. WHEN I ASKED HIM WHO DID THAT, AND AS I UNDERSTAND, IT WAS DONE BY POPULATION WITHIN 1%. we had ABOUT A 1% WINDOW IN THERE FROM ONE DISTRICT TO ANOTHER. WHEN I ASKED WHO DID THIS, WHO DREW THESE DISTRICTS, HE SAID HE DID. >>KENNETH TINKLER: I BELIEVE THEY USED AN OVERLAY DISTRICT. WE WILL HAVE TO GET THEIR CHARTER LANGUAGE TO FIGURE THAT OUT. >>DENISE LASHER: I HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT. I WAS AN OBSERVER OF THE REDISTRICTING OF THE SCHOOL BOARD DISTRICTS. AND THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO, TRY TO GET WITHIN 1% OF WHAT THEY KNOW IS A POPULATION BASED ON -- >>DAVID HURLEY: CENSUS TRACTS. >>DENISE LASHER: CENSUS TRACTS, BUT BASED ON THE LATEST INFORMATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION. ISN'T THERE SOME FEDERAL LAWS THAT DICTATE IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT, YOU KNEED TO HAVE IT WITHIN 1% OR RUN THE RISK OF HAVING A COURT CHALLENGE. NOTHING IN THE FEDERAL LAW THAT SAYS IT. YOU RUN THE RISK OF HAVING A CHALLENGE REGARDING REDISTRICTING. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. THEY DID TRY TO CREATE A DISTRICT THAT WOULD MAXIMIZE MINORITY REPRESENTATION AS BEST AS THEY COULD. BUT I WOULD SAY IN PINELLAS COUNTY, SINCE THEY HAVE A 4-3, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THE ONE DISTRICT FOR THE ONE AT -- YOU KNOW, FOR THE AT-LARGE IS SPLIT EQUALLY BETWEEN THEIR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS. FOUR SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS AND THREE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. ONE OF THE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS -- HALF WOULD BE IN AT-LARGE AND ANOTHER HALF IN ANOTHER AT-LARGE. CAN YOU HAVE AN OVERLAY THERE? I BELIEVE THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS OFFICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PUT THOSE TOGETHER AND PERHAPS WE WOULD APPROVE THEM FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL APPROVE THEM. IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE, THE SCHOOL BOARD HAD TO APPROVE WHAT WAS DRAFTED, BUT THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTION WAS INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THAT. >> I'M SURE THE SUPERVISOR WOULD BE INVOLVED. WE CAN CHECK WITH PINELLAS TO SEE EXACTLY WHO MADE THE DISTRICT AND WHO WAS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR OVER THERE. >>DEE WILLIAMS: I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US LOOK AT THAT FOR OUR AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT CONCEPT A LITTLE BETTER OF REDOING AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. >>DEE WILLIAMS: PINELLAS COUNTY. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY DREW CROSS WAYS OR LENGTHWISE OR HOWEVER THEY DID IT, THEY SPLIT THEIR COUNTY INTO THREE DISTRICTS. FORGET SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE FOUR OF THOSE. THEY STAYED LIKE OURS WILL STAY. THEY SPLIT THE COUNTY INTO THREE DISTRICTS, POPULATION-WISE. LIKE I SAY, I DON'T KNOW IF THE LINES WERE DRAWN HORIZONTALLY OR VERTICALLY OR CROOKED OR WHOEVER. THEY CAME UP WITH THREE DISTRICTS OF POPULATIONS OF X AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WITHIN 1% WE HAD A MARGIN OF ERROR, I'LL CALL IT FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, FROM 1% DIFFERENCE FROM DISTRICT TO DISTRICT. THE AT-LARGE CANDIDATE HAD TO LIVE IN THE DISTRICT WHERE THEY RAN, WHERE THEY CAMPAIGNED, BUT THE WHOLE COUNTY VOTED ON THEM. SO YOU HAD A CHANCE OF HAVING AT-LARGE REPRESENTATIVES FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTY. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I SEE. >>DEE WILLIAMS: IF I WAS MAKING A IDEA, I WOULD MAKE A SUGGESTION OF NORTH, CENTRAL, SOUTH. >> THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU DIVIDE INTO DISTRICTS, IT IS JUST A RESIDENCY. THEY REPRESENT ALL THE COUNTY, BUT THEY HAVE TO LIVE IN THAT DISTRICT AND VOTED ON BY ALL. >>KEVIN AMBLER: JUST DIVERSIFIES THE REPRESENTATION OF THE AT-LARGE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. >>DEE WILLIAMS: BECAUSE IF YOU HAD SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE AN AT-LARGE -- THE WAY I WAS THINKING OF IT, NORTH, CENTRAL, AND SOUTH. YOU WOULD HAVE ONE FROM THE NORTH PART OF THE COUNTY. ONE IN THE CENTRAL PART OF THE COUNTY. AND ONE IN THE SOUTH PART OF THE COUNTY AND NOT HAVE THEM CONCENTRATED IN ONE NEIGHBORHOOD. >>JAN SMITH: IN ORDER -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: THAT WILL TAKE -- >>GERALD WHITE: WHAT ABOUT THE EAST? >>DEE WILLIAMS: GERALD, IF YOU DREW A LINE FROM WEST TO EAST. NORTH, CENTRAL, AND SOUTH YOU WOULD HAVE IT. >>GERALD WHITE: I'M WITH YOU. I'M WITH YOU. >>JAN SMITH: MR. BELTRAN. >> I FEEL THERE IS A PROBLEM WHEN YOU DIVIDE THE TERRITORY, ESPECIALLY. IN POLITICAL PARTIES, YOU HAVE TO SAY, WELL, NONPARTISAN, THEN ANYBODY WILL VOTE FOR ANY CANDIDATE. THE WAY IT IS, THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WHERE IT'S HEAVILY THIS PARTY OR THE OTHER IS HEAVILY ON THIS OTHER PARTY. I THINK AT FIRST IF THEY MAKE IT NONPARTISAN, WE WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT VERY WELL. >>DEE WILLIAMS: BY THAT, IF THAT'S THE CASE I'LL WITHDRAW MY OFFER. >>JAN SMITH: MR. BEDKE. >>MIKE BEDKE: I WAS GOING TO COMMENT AND GIVE ANOTHER COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN RESPONSE TO MR. AMBLER'S QUESTIONS. MANY, MANY YEARS AGO AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE AS STUDENT BODY PRESIDENT. ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID THERE IS WE HAD AT-LARGE STUDENT SENATE STREETS. WE DISTRICTED THE OFF-CAMPUS SENATE SEATS BECAUSE WHAT HAD HISTORICALLY HAPPENED FRATERNITY ROW AND SORORITY ROW ELECTED EVERYONE. SO WE MADE FRAT ROW AND SORORITY ROW ONE AT-LARGE DISTRICT AND CHANGED THE FACE OF POLITICS AT THE STUDENT BODY LEVEL IN GAINESVILLE AND I THINK TO THIS DAY, MANY YEARS LATER, CONTINUES TO EXIST. ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS IN THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION, FLORIDA AND TEXAS ARE A DISTRICT. YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE AT-LARGE PERSON FROM ONE OF THOSE STATES, BECAUSE OTHERWISE, THAT VOTING BLOCK WILL ELECT EVERY AT-LARGE MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF DELEGATES IN THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION. SO I WHOLEHEARTEDLY ENDORSE THE NOTION THAT DEE WILLIAMS HAS RACED. >>DAVID HURLEY: I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHERE DEE IS COMING FROM BUT A LOT OF THINGS TALKED ABOUT FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE. GERALD WHITE EARLIER ON WAS TALKING ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM WHICH VERY LITTLE WE CAN DO THAT. I HEARD SOMEBODY TALK ABOUT THE SIZE OF DISTRICTS. HENRY BELTRAN TALKED ABOUT THAT WE HAD COMMISSIONERS THAT TALKED ABOUT THAT. CONCERN ABOUT MINORITY REPRESENTATION, POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS. I THINK THE THREE COUNTYWIDE SEATS ARE TREMENDOUSLY EXPENSIVE TO RUN FOR. IF YOU ARE GOING TO CAMPAIGN -- WE HAVE A BIGGER POPULATION THAN SEVEN OF THE STATES IN THIS COUNTRY. AND ALMOST THE SAME AS AN EIGHT ONE WHICH IS DELAWARE. SO TO CAMPAIGN COUNTYWIDE IN THIS COUNTY JUST TAKES A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY. I THINK YOU CAN ALMOST EFFECT A CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM IF NOT NECESSARILY FOR THAT REASON, BUT IF YOU HAD THE SMALLER DISTRICTS, IF YOU CUT IT UP AND WENT TO NINE DISTRICTS WITH EIGHT OF THEM BEING SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, YOU WOULD EFFECTIVELY CUT THE DISTRICTS IN HALF. I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE A VERY GOOD OPPORTUNITY THEN OF HAVING THE SEAT THAT THOMAS SCOTT HAS. STILL PROBABLY HAVE AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN IT. YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A WEST TAMPA OR SOME AREA WHERE WE WILL HAVE A HISPANIC ON THE BOARD. AND YOU WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY THEN IF YOU HAD ONE PERSON WHO WAS ELECTED COUNTYWIDE WHO COULD BE ELECTED AS A CHAIRMAN OR MAYOR BUT NOT NECESSARILY TO RUN THE WORLD. I DON'T THINK I WANT TO SEE THE GUY HAVE VETO POWER OVER ORDINANCED AND ZONING. BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD SCARE EVERYBODY. AND SCARES ME AND I'M FEARLESS. I THINK IF WE CAN GET RID OF THE PAROCHIALISM BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL BE FIGHTING FOR THEIR OWN LITTLE FIEFDOMS. THEY HAVE TO SEE THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT THESE SEVEN STATES THAT ARE SMALLER THAN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. EVERY ONE OF THEM HAS A GOVERNOR AND A LEGISLATURE. AND THEY ARE OPERATING -- FUNCTIONING ON A SCALE THAT'S -- YOU KNOW THEY ARE SMALLER THAN US. WE'VE GOT SEVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH SOME THINGS HERE, AND THIS IS -- YOU KNOW, I'VE WATCHED THE STUFF THAT THEY HAVE TO DO HERE. I MEAN, I KNOW THAT MOST OF YOU HAVE ALL BEEN TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION MEETINGS FOR ONE THING OR ANOTHER. AND IF YOU SEE THE MASS OF PAPER THAT THEY CARRY IN EVERY TIME FOR EVERY MEETING, IT'S A PHENOMENAL JOB. THAT'S GOT TO BE THE HARDEST JOB IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY THAT YOU CAN BE ELECTED TO. I THINK THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES. I THINK SHORT OF THAT, I THINK DEFINITELY DISTRICTING THE COUNTYWIDE STREETS. I THINK -- SEATS. I THINK THE THREE COUNTYWIDE SEATS AND WHAT IT COSTS TO RUN COUNTYWIDE IS A FREIGHT ANYTHING THING AND YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND REALLY RAISE MONEY. I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR MOST PEOPLE, AND PARTICULARLY IF YOU WANT TO GO TO NONPARTISAN, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RAISE THAT KIND OF MONEY TO RUN COUNTYWIDE BECAUSE YOU WOULD TAKE FOR A COUNTY COMMISSION SEAT. BESIDES, YOU KNOW THE CITY OF TAMPA IS NONPARTISAN. I'VE HEARD THAT. BUT I KNOW EXACT ONES ON THAT CITY COUNCIL WHICH ONES ARE REPUBLICAN AND WHICH ONES ARE DEMOCRAT. AND YOU DO TO. THAT'S JOKE WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT. ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST ONE THOUGHT ON THE THING. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. HURLEY. MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: I JUST COME BACK FROM THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION AS A DELEGATE, ALTERNATE DELEGATE REPRESENTING THE COUNTY. AND SURPRISINGLY, I PARTICIPATED IN A PRESENTATION ON PARTISAN VERSUS NONPARTISAN, AND I'M GOING TO PRESENT WITH MY NOTES THAT I TOOK. AND IT WAS INTERESTING WHERE SOME OF THE EXPERTS SAYING IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT, IT IS MORE EFFECTIVE TO BE NONPARTISAN. SO I WAS MOVED HEARING THAT COMING OUT OF A DEMOCRATIC ACTIVITIES IN LOS ANGELES. SO MY MIND HAS BEEN BROAD AND OPENED UP A LITTLE BIT ON THE CONCEPT AFTER HEARING SOME OF THE EXPERTS TALKING ABOUT IT. I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS DECIDE WHERE WE ARE GOING TO START. IF WE'RE GOING TO EXPAND THE BOARD TO EIGHT -- TO NINE MEMBERS, WE NEED TO DECIDE. ONCE WE MAKE THAT DECISION, THEN WE CAN GO ON AND TALK ABOUT WHAT SHAPE SHOULD THAT BE. SHOULD IT BE AT-LARGE? SHOULD IT BE SINGLE MEMBER? THE EIGHT OR NINE SEATS. ONCE WE DETERMINE THAT, THEN WE CAN MOVE ON AND DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH SHOULD BE PARTISAN VERSUS NONPARTISAN. >>DAVID HURLEY: I JUST THROUGH THAT OUT FOR DISCUSSION. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO DECIDE WHETHER TO DO THAT. LET OTHER PEOPLE -- THERE ARE 13 OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT IT AND WE CAN LEARN FROM ALL OF THEM. >>GERALD WHITE: I'M SHARING WHAT'S IN MY HEART. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. AND HAVE YOU WRITTEN THAT INFORMATION UP? DO YOU HAVE IT TO GIVE TO BARBARA? CAN YOU DO IT AND GIVE IT TO HER? HOW DO YOU WANT TO PRESENT IT TO THE BOARD? >>GERALD WHITE: I'LL PRESENT IT TO -- I WILL GIVE IT TO BARBARA AND SHE CAN SEND IT IN THE NEXT MAILING. FULL-TIME. WE NEED TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, IN MY MIND, SHOULD MOVE FROM A PART-TIME POSITION TO A FULL-TIME POSITION. >>DEE WILLIAMS: I THINK THAT'S A JOKE ALREADY. >>JAN SMITH: CAN I RESPOND TO THAT? YEARS AGO, AND MS. WILLIAMS HAS HEARD THIS ONE BEFORE TOO AND CAN PROBABLY GIVE THE SAME SPEECH. THE JOB, AS WE ALL KNOW IT IS A FULL-TIME JOB, IT IS MORE THAN A 40-HOUR JOB. IT PAYS LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE WHEN YOU ADD THE HOURS UP. BUT THE REASON THE BOARD, THE ORIGINAL CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION PRESENTED IT AS A PART-TIME, TO ALLOW PEOPLE THAT HAD SMALL BUSINESSES OR BIG BUSINESSES, SOME PROFESSION, WHATEVER, TO CONTINUE TO WORK IN THEIR PROFESSION SO THAT WHEN THEY LEFT THE BOARD, THEY COULD CARRY ON THEIR LIFE. AT THAT TIME, IF YOU'LL RECALL, JIM SELVEY FROM SOUTH COUNTY WAS A TOMATO GROWER. AND IF YOU HAD MADE IT A FULL-TIME JOB, HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO GIVE UP HIS FARMING ACTIVITIES, THE WAY MOST CHARTERS ARE WRITTEN SAYING IT'S A FULL-TIME JOB. SO THE INTENT OF THE ORIGINAL COMMISSION WAS NEVER TO SAY THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ISN'T A FULL-TIME JOB. IT WAS TO ALLOW YOU TO CONTINUE WITH YOUR CHOSEN LIFE, YOUR CAREER. NEEDLESS TO SAY, IF YOU ARE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, THAT PROBABLY IS GOING TO SUFFER. BUT SO BE IT. IF IT'S THE CHOICE YOU ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS AN INTENTION TO SAY IT'S BY DEFINITION OF PART-TIME. >>GERALD WHITE: I MADE THESE NOTES APRIL THE 19th. AND THE REASON IS IT CAME TO MY MIND ON THAT BECAUSE OF THE ISSUE WHEN COMMISSIONER WILSON WAS ON THE BOARD, PART-TIME, FULL-TIME, ADDITIONAL EMPLOYMENT AND ALL THAT. THAT'S WHERE THAT THOUGHT CAME FROM. >>JAN SMITH: FOR INSTANCE, NOW, REVEREND SCOTT. PART OF HIS LIFE OR JOB WOULD TO BE A MINISTER. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO PRECLUDE HIM FROM DOING THAT. >>GERALD WHITE: OH, NO. >>JAN SMITH: I THINK THAT WAS THE EXPLANATION. ANOTHER THOUGHT THAT HAS BEEN RUNNING IN MY MIND, AND I'LL STOP RIGHT HERE, BUT I GOT PLENTY. UNEQUALLY JOKED WAS A THOUGHT THAT CAME TO MY MIND. IF YOU LOOK AND SEE WHAT THE CITY OF TAMPA IS DOING BY PUTTING ON THE BALLOT, ELIMINATING TERM LIMITS FOR THE MAYOR AND FOR THE CITY COUNCIL. WHAT -- HOW IS THAT GOING TO EFFECT THE COUNTY POSTS? IT'S JUST A THOUGHT. IF THESE PEOPLE ON THEIR SIDE OF GOVERNMENT CAN CONTINUE TO RUN, RUN, RUN AND IN THE COUNTY, THEY ARE TERM LIMITING OUT, HOW IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT THE POWER STRUCTURE, THE INFLUENCE OF THE ELECTED OFFICIAL AND ALL. I JUST THROW THAT OUT FOR THOUGHT. >>JAN SMITH: COME OVER BACK TO THIS SIDE. MR. AMBLER. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I WANT TO ECHO A COMMENT DEE WAS MAKING. AND TO HARKEN BACK TO A COMMENT THAT I MADE WHEN I WAS QUESTIONING SENATOR HARGRETT WHEN HE WAS HERE LAST TIME. I THINK WHEN THE COMMISSION WAS ORIGINALLY SET UP WITH SEVEN COMMISSIONERS. THE OBJECTIVE OF THE FOUR SINGLE DISTRICTS AND THREE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS WAS SUCH THAT EVERY MEMBER -- EVERY VOTING PERSON IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COULD ELECT A MAJORITY MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION. AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST STRUCTURALLY SOUND THINGS ABOUT OUR COUNTY COMMISSION STRUCTURE. AND WHAT I LIKED ABOUT DEE'S PROPOSAL IS IT TWEAKS IT JUST A LITTLE BIT. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE EVERY VOTER BEING ABLE TO VOTE A MAJORITY OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN EXPAND ON WHY -- WHAT THE MERITS ARE BEHIND THAT BECAUSE YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A VOICE IN GOVERNMENT BEYOND THE MAJORITY OF THE BOARD. BEYOND THAT, WITH THE TWEAKING THAT YOU HAVE WITH DISTRICTING THE AT-LARGE DISTRICT SO YOU HAVE BETTER REGIONAL REPRESENTATION FROM YOUR AT-LARGE MEMBERS. NOW YOU HAVE EVEN IMPROVED ON BUT NOT DESTROYED THE WHOLE EFFECTIVENESS OF EACH VOTER HAVING A SAY-SO AND THE MAJORITY OF THE BOARD. IN THAT SAME VAIN, I WILL ADD WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT ENLARGING THE DISTRICT. AND I DON'T KNOW WE DON'T -- I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE OUR CENSUS REPORT. SOME OF THE FIGURES THAT WERE THROWN OUT TO US WERE MISLEADING. FROM THE FIGURES I HAD AND DAVE HAD EARLIER, THE LITTLE CARD HANDED OUT BY THE TAMPA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE THAT HE SHOWED ME WHEN SENATOR HARGRETT WAS TALKING LAST MEETING. THE RATE OF GROWTH IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IS NOT AS REPRESENTATIVE. IT IS NOT GROWING AT AN ABOUNDING 15%. >>JAN SMITH: I THINK WHAT HE KEPT TRYING TO SAY WAS 1500 PEOPLE. I THINK HE REALLY -- THE GROWTH RATE IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN -- >>KEVIN AMBLER: LIKE 1%, OF IT? >>JAN SMITH: 1 AND A HALF TO 2% ANNUALLY. >>DAVID HURLEY: 15% IN THE LAST TEN YEARS. >>KEVIN AMBLER: IF THAT'S THE CASE AT THAT LOW NEGLIGIBLE AMOUNT OF GROWTH, I DON'T THINK NEWER A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO NEED TO EXPAND EIGHT OR NINE-MEMBER COMMISSION. IT'S HARD ENOUGH -- LOOK AT THIS 14-MEMBER BODY. IT'S HARD TO GET WORK DONE. THE LARGER YOUR GROUP, A KNOWN SCIENTIFIC GROUP, THE LARGER THE GROUP, THE HARDER IT IS TO GET WORK ACCOMPLISHED. THE QUESTION IS, IS THE ANSWER GOING TO A LARGER COMMISSION? OR IS THE ANSWER TWEAKING THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE OF SEVEN, BUT BETTER REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE COUNTY, INCLUDING THE MINORITY POPULATION, INCLUDING THE OUTER PARTS OF THE COUNTY THAT ARE NOW SUBJECT TO HIGH GROWTH LIKE SOUTH COUNTY, LIKE NORTH COUNTY, SO WE HAVE A FAIRER REPRESENTATION AMONG THE SEVEN THAT SIT THERE. SO I THINK THAT'S AN IDEA THAT'S WORTH EXPLORING. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S DOABLE WITHIN THE MISSION STATEMENT OF THIS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD GIVEN OUR LIMITED TIME, AND DOESN'T TAKE IN A LOT OF THE COMPLEX ISSUES THAT MADAM CHAIR HAS POINTED OUT ACTUALLY CHANGING AND REVAMPING YOUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT HAS. THE LAST COMMENT I'LL MAKE ON THAT IS THAT PERHAPS IT IS TIME TO TAKE OFF THE TABLE A MOTION THAT I MADE A NUMBER OF MEETINGS AGO, AND THAT IS CONSIDERATION OF ENLARGING THE TIME THAT THIS CHARTER BOARD MEETS. NOW, I ORIGINALLY SAID THREE YEARS. I THINK IT WAS JUST TO KIND OF SPARK THE CONTROVERSY. AND I TOLD EVERYONE, I WASN'T MARRIED TO THAT. EVERYONE FLIPPED OUT AND SAID I COULDN'T IMAGINE DOING THIS TWO YEARS MUCH LESS THREE. 18 MONTHS IS NOT A LOT OF TIME WHEN YOU TACKLE SUCH ISSUES CONSIDERING REVAMPING YOUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT AND YOU RECOGNIZE THE CAUSE AND EFFECT OF EVERY LITTLE TWEAK YOU MAKE IN A CONSTITUTION AND THE RIPPLING EFFECT IT HAS FOR ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED, THAT REQUIRES TIME AND THOUGHT. AND EITHER, ONE, IT IS GOING TO BE TOO SHORT A TIME TO TAKE ON THE ISSUE ITSELF. OR NUMBER TWO, YOU ARE GOING TO ATTEMPT TO TACKLE THE ISSUE AND FEEL RUSHED AND DO A HALF-HEARTED JOB OR PUT SOME BAD PIECE OF LEGISLATION OUT THERE THAT MIGHT GET PASSED WITHOUT DOING IT JUSTICE. SO, I, AGAIN, SUBMIT TO THE GROUP TO CONSIDER ONE OF THE THINGS THIS SHORTER GROUP COULD LOOK AT IS ONE OF ITS AMENDMENTS TO THE CHARTER IS, IS THE PRESENT TIME LIMIT ENOUGH, OR SHOULD THE BOARD BE MEETING FOR TWO YEARS AND THEN HAVE A BREAK, A SHORTER BREAK OR A LONGER BREAK DEPENDING. BUT SHOULD WE TWEAK WITH THAT A LITTLE BIT SO THIS BOARD HAS A BETTER AMOUNT OF TIME. I WILL ALSO OFFER TO YOU THIS, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU. I'M A FAMILY MAN WITH TWO YOUNG CHILDREN. THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEIR HOMEWORK. SOMETIMES THEY NEED HELP WITH THEIR HOMEWORK. I HAVE A FULL-TIME PRACTICE. I MEET WITH OTHER GROUPS. TWO TIMES A MONTH CAN BE QUITE ONEROUS. OUR MEETINGS ARE NOT SHORT AND WE DON'T WANT TO CUT THEM SHORT. MEETING ONCE A MONTH, YOU WILL HAVE MORE TIME TO COLLECT DATA AND HAVE A CHANCE TO PROCESS THAT INFORMATION AND MAKE THE TIME THAT WE DO MEET MORE PRODUCTIVE. I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THAT COMMENT. >>JAN SMITH: THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE, OF COURSE, IF THERE WAS A SUGGESTION TO MAKE A MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGE, THAT WE WILL GO BACK TO THE COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION AND LET A COMMITTEE MEET EVERY DAY, IF THEY WANT. YOU KNOW, FOR A MONTH IF THERE'S A COMMITTEE THAT WANTS TO PROPOSE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT CERTAINLY IS DOABLE. IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE COULDN'T DO. I THINK IT WOULD PROVE TO BE DIFFICULT, BUT IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT SOME MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO JUST TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER. MS. WILLIAMS, BACK TO -- THERE'S A MAP BEHIND YOU THAT -- THE ONE ON THE LEFT. AND ONE OF THE -- ONE OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE ABOUT THAT MAP IS HOW MANY TIMES IF YOU DO A NORTH, CENTRAL, AND SOUTH DO YOU PICK UP PORTIONS OF THE CITY. AND I THINK YOUR INTENT IS TO NOT GET PORTIONS OF THE CITY IN ALL THREE OF THOSE DISTRICTS. I SUSPECT AT SOME POINT OR OTHER, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE IT IN ONE OF THOSE DISTRICTS. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHAT WOULD YOU THINK ABOUT HAVING -- IF THIS WERE TO BE CONSIDERED AND TO HAVE A COMMITTEE WORK IT UP AND COME UP WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS AND GET THE CENSUS INFORMATION. HAVING THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD RECONVENE TO REVIEW JUST AS A REVIEW COMMITTEE TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, BECAUSE THEY WILL ULTIMATELY HAVE TO APPROVE THAT. THE WAY THE DISTRICTS ARE CONFIGURED -- BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT SOUTH COUNTY AND YOUR POPULATION IS MUCH MORE SPARSE DOWN THERE THEN IN NORTHWEST, IN THE CITY. AND YOU HAVE GOT THE PART OF THE CITY COMING OUT INTO TAMPA PALMS HIGHER. THE COMMENTS I HEAR MOST ABOUT HAVING ANOTHER DISTRICT OR CHANGING THE WHOLE DISTRICTING PROCESS IS THAT SOUTH COUNTY PERCEIVES THEMSELVES, SUN CITY, RUSKIN, THAT AREA, TO BE A GREAT DEAL DIFFERENT THAN PLANT CITY AND BRANDON, AND YET THEY ARE PUT IN WITH THAT. SO THE ABILITY TO HAVE SOME INFLUENCE ON THEIR DESTINY DOWN THERE IS REDUCED. SO WOULD YOU CONSIDER HAVING THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD RECONVENE TO REVIEW IT JUST AS A RECOMMENDING -- A RECOMMENDING -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO WHAT I SUGGESTED, YOU WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEW CENSUS CAME IN. YOU WOULD HAVE TO. IF YOU WENT TO THIS TYPE THING, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE DRAFTED ON THE BASIS THAT IT WILL NOT BE EFFECTIVE UNTIL AFTER THE NEW CENSUS WAS IN. BUT SOUTH AND EAST COUNTY NOW IS WHERE THE GROWTH IS BEGINNING. BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY HAVE TO GO. LOOK HOW MANY HOMES YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE OUT IN FISHHAWK RANCH ON THE OTHER SIDE OF BRANDON. THEY ARE COMING DOWN 301 WITH APARTMENTS AND HOUSES AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE. YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A BIG POPULATION CHANGE IN WHAT IS RIGHT NOW DISTRICT 4 IN THE 2000 CENSUS. >>JAN SMITH: BUT DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE ADVISABLE TO HAVE THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD REVIEW THE NUMBERS AND THE DISAGGREGATION OF THE POPULATION INTO THOSE DISTRICTS AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD WHEN THEY CONSIDER IT, IF THIS WHOLE THING -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: YES ARE I DO -- YES, I DO. >>JAN SMITH: MS. LASHER. LET ME LET MS. LASHER TALK AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A BREAK. >>DENISE LASHER: ON THAT PARTICULAR TOPIC, AND I THINK -- COUNTY ATTORNEY HOPEFULLY WILL BE FINDING THIS OUT FOR US. WHAT POSSIBLY CAN HAPPEN IF THIS BOARD, TEN MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD OR MORE DECIDED TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS ON THE BALLOT, YOU WOULD BE PUTTING ON THE BALLOT THE ABILITY TO DO THAT. AND THEN AFTER IT PASSED, THEN THE DISTRICTS WOULD BE DRAWN. AND THEY THINK -- OKAY, FIRST THE BALLOT LANGUAGE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THEN AFTER IT'S PASSED OR IF IT'S '-- IT'S PASSED. THEN THE DISTRICTS WILL BE DRAWN. THE DISTRICT BOUNDARIES WILL HAVE TO APPROVED BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. AND I GUESS BEFORE -- IT WOULD GO TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AFTER THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAD APPROVED OF THOSE BOUNDARIES. SO I BELIEVE THAT'S HOW IT WOULD GO. THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WOULD APPROVE THE BOUNDARY AFTER THE BALLOT INITIATIVE WAS PASSED BY THE PUBLIC. AND THEN THE BOUNDARIES THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAD APPROVED, THAT WOULD GO TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR THEM TO SIGN OFF FOR THEIR APPROVAL. >>JAN SMITH: IT MAY GO TO JUSTICE BEFORE THE BOARD. >>DENISE LASHER: THE SCHOOL BOARD SENT IT AFTER -- THEY VOTED ON IT AND SENT IT TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. >>DEE WILLIAMS: IT WOULD BE KIND OF LIKE WHENEVER THE CONSTITUTIONAL COMMISSION MEANT TO CHANGE THE INDIANA CONSTITUTION. THOSE CHANGES, IF THE VOTERS WERE TO APPROVE THEM, WOULD GO OUT INTO EFFECT IN A YEAR OR TWO. >>DENISE LASHER: RIGHT, THEY HAVE LIKE ONE YEAR -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: ONE-YEAR WINDOW OR MAYBE EVEN MORE. IS THERE ANY REASON WHY IF WE WANTED TO DO THIS AND SUBJECT TO THE NEW CENSUS, THAT IT WOULD BE EFFECTIVE OUT TO -- PROBABLY WOULDN'T GET TO THE BALLOT BEFORE 2002 ANYWAY. >>DENISE LASHER: THAT'S RIGHT. AFTER IT'S PASSED, THEN THE BOUNDARIES WOULD BE DRAWN. THE BOUNDARIES WOULD NOT BE PART OF WHAT THE PUBLIC WILL BE VOTING ON. THE PUBLIC WILL BE JUST VOTING ON THE CONCEPT. THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WOULD DETERMINE THE BOUNDARIES. SUBSEQUENT APPROVAL OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. >>DEE WILLIAMS: BASED ON THE POPULATION. >>DENISE LASHER: COUNTY CAN FIND OUT IF THAT'S TRUE. >>JAN SMITH: THAT PROCESS WILL ACTUALLY START PROBABLY AT THE SUPERVISORS OF ELECTIONS AND PLANNING COMMISSION TO GET THE NUMBERS AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN GO -- THE BOARD WOULDN'T GET TO SET IT. THEY WILL GET THE RECOMMENDATIONS. >>DENISE LASHER: RIGHT, EXACTLY. ONE OTHER POINT MR. AMBLER WAS MAKING ABOUT WHEN THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD MEANT. IN MY OPINION, I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE BECAUSE I WOULD HATE TO SEE FUTURE BOARDS RUN INTO THE SAME DILEMMA WE DID THIS YEAR WHERE THE GENERAL ELECTION IS IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR PERIOD OF TIME WE CONVENE. I DON'T KNOW IF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD NEEDS TO MEET EVERY FIVE YEARS. I THINK MAYBE EIGHT YEARS, AND THEY WOULD START THEIR -- THEY WOULD CONVENE TWO YEARS PRIOR TO THAT GENERAL ELECTION. SO IT WOULD BE RIGHT AFTER DOCTOR SAY, IF IT CHANGED AND WAS EFFECTIVE 2002. THEN IN -- WHATEVER. SO, YOU KNOW, 24 MONTHS BEFORE THE GENERAL ELECTION. >>DAVID HURLEY: HOW ABOUT 30 MONTHS BEFORE THE GENERAL ELECTION. >>DENISE LASHER: MEET FOR TWO YEARS -- NO, NO, NO, NO. THEY WOULD START CONVENING TWO YEARS PRIOR AND MEET FOR 18 MONTHS. SO THEY WOULD BE FINISHED WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS OR WHATEVER THEY WANT TO PUT ON THE BALLOT SIX MONTHS PRIOR TO THE GENERAL ELECTION. ANYWAY, I JUST WANT TO SEE IT SO WHEN THEY FINISH MEETING, WHEN THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD COMPLETES THEIR TASKS THAT IS TIMED WITH A GENERAL ELECTION. BY MEETING EVERY FIVE YEARS, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT PLEASURE. >> I'M GOING TO LET DEE RESPOND TO THAT. >>DEE WILLIAMS: OKAY. THATS WAS THE ONLY CHANGE THAT WE MADE TO THE CHARTER FIVE YEARS AGO. SINCE THE CHARTER HAD BEEN IN EFFECT FOR X NUMBER OF YEARS AND NO CHARTER REVIEW BOARD SAW FIT TO CHANGE IT OR EVEN FELT THAT IT NEEDED A CHANGE AND WE WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE ONE THAT YEAR, THAT IT WAS USEFUL FOR US TO MEET EVERY FIVE YEARS SO WE WILL MEET EVERY EIGHT YEARS. THE VOTER WOULDN'T HAVE IT. THEY SAID MEET EVERY FIVE YEARS. >>DENISE LASHER: RIGHT. >>DEE WILLIAMS: SELL IT TO THE VOTERS. >>DENISE LASHER: WE HAVE DIFFERENT VOTERS OUT THERE. >>JAN SMITH: AS THE MAKER OF THE MOTION LAST TIME WHEN THAT WENT, THERE WERE TWO INTENTS IN MY MOTION. NUMBER ONE WAS TO HAVE THE ELECTION OF CHARTER REVIEW BOARD INFORMATION GO TO THE PUBLIC IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WHEN YOU HAVE A GREATER VOTER TURNOUT. THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE. THE SECOND ONE WAS, SO THAT THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD WOULD BE APPOINTED WITH NEWLY ELECTED COMMISSIONERS IN PLACE, NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, AND THAT THE WORK WILL BE DONE SIX MONTHS BEFORE IT WAS TO BE VOTED ON. WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME. THE TRIBUNE DID COME UP WITH AN EDITORIAL IN FAVOR OF IT. I SUSPECT BECAUSE IT WAS IN ONE OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE IT WASN'T A BIG ISSUE WITH THE GENERAL PUBLIC. IT WAS A BIG ISSUE WITH THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, BUT IT WASN'T WITH THE GENERAL PUBLIC. AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC PROBABLY READ IT, THOUGHT WE WERE ELIMINATING THEIR ABILITY TO PARTICIPATE IN GOVERNMENT BECAUSE YOU WERE CHANGING IT FROM FIVE TO EIGHT AND MAYBE THAT WENT DOWN. THE OTHER REASON WHY I THOUGHT IT COULD HAVE BEEN EASILY DEFEATED BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT THINK THE STRUCTURE COULD BE CHANGED AND THEY LIKE THE EVERY FIVE YEARS BECAUSE THEY THINK SOME DAY IT WILL PROPOSE A CHANGE. THEIR REASONING WAS PROPER VALID FOR THAT PERSPECTIVE. >>GERALD WHITE: MADAM CHAIR, I VOTED AGAINST IT WHEN IT WAS AT THE BALLOT, BECAUSE I FELT SOMETHING WAS BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM ME. AND THAT'S WHY I VOTED AGAINST IT. >>DENISE LASHER: WOULD YOU VOTE AGAINST IT AGAIN? >>JAN SMITH: THE INTENT WAS TO GIVE THE PUBLIC SOMETHING BETTER. >>DENISE LASHER: WOULD YOU VOTE AGAINST IT AGAIN NOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SERVING ON THIS BOARD. >>GERALD WHITE: MOST LIKELY BECAUSE THE REASON IS THAT IT'S NOT THE TIME THAT YOU MEET, IT'S WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU MEET IS THE QUESTION. FROM MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE YOU TO GET GOING, TO GET UP TO SPEED, TO START TACKLING SERIOUS ISSUES THAT THE PUBLIC WANT ADDRESSED. NOW WE ARE AT THAT POINT WHERE WE ARE ADDRESSING THESE SERIOUS ISSUES. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHARTER, YOU REALLY ARE TALKING ABOUT TWEAKING THINGS, NOT NECESSARILY MAKING WHOLE-HEARTED CHANGES IN MY MIND. SO I'M SATISFIED WITH THE TIME THAT WE HAVE TO REVIEW THE CHARTER. A LITTLE ADJUSTMENTS HERE AND THERE, MAYBE. MAYBE TALK ABOUT QUALIFICATIONS OF CHARTER REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS, THINGS LIKE THAT. INTERNAL STRUCTURES THAT EXISTS THAT WE HAVE EXISTING SO FAR. NECESSARILY MEETING LONGER AND ALL THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO SERVE ANY PUBLIC PURPOSE. >>JAN SMITH: BASED ON THAT, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A RECESS. THIS BOARD WILL COME BACK AT -- IS TEN MINUTES GOING TO CUT IT? WE'LL BE BACK AT 10 MINUTES OF, PLEASE. >>JAN SMITH: BOARD MEMBERS, THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD WILL PLEASE COME BACK TO ORDER. WE'VE REVIEWED OUR TIMES FOR REPLAY OF THIS MEETING, AND WE HAD SOME WRONG DATES AND SO IN AN EFFORT TO CORRECT THEM, LET ME SAY THAT THE REPLAY OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD MEETING FROM THIS EVENING, THE 24th OF AUGUST WILL BE FRIDAY, AUGUST 25th, AT 7 P.M.; SUNDAY, AUGUST 27th AT 3 P.M.; AND WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 30th AT MIDNIGHT. SO, LET'S SEE. I THINK WE'RE BACK OVER TO THIS SIDE. SOMEONE ON THIS SIDE HAVE A COMMENT OR AN ISSUE THEY WOULD LIKE TO RAISE? >> I'M READY TO TIP MY HAND WHEN YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE I STAND. >>JAN SMITH: GO RIGHT AHEAD AND TIP YOUR HAND. WE HAVE FIVE MINUTES. >> OKAY. I'M FROM THE EASTERN AREA THE COUNTY, PLANT CITY. I SERVED ON THE CITY COUNCIL OVER THERE FOR 12 OR 13 YEARS. THEN THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT THEY HAVE IN PLANT CITY IS THE SAME AS THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT THEY HAVE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. EXCEPT THEY HAVE FIVE COMMISSIONERS. THEY CALL THEM MAYOR COMMISSIONER. AND THE ONE THAT'S APPOINTED BY THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS IS THE MAYOR. THE COMMISSIONERS MAKE TWO OR THREE -- THEY APPOINT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY -- I MEAN, THE CITY ATTORNEY. THEY APPOINT THE CITY CLERK. AND THEY APPOINT THE CITY MANAGER, WHICH IS THE SAME AS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. AND THAT'S THE ONLY THREE APPOINTMENTS THEY MAKE. THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEAD OF THE CITY, CITY MANAGER DOES ALL THE OTHER HIRING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I'VE SEEN THE SYSTEM WORK, AND I THINK IT'S WORKED WELL. SO I FAVOR THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE NOW IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. NOW, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER. THE IDEA THAT MS. WILLIAMS BROUGHT UP ABOUT HAVING THE DISTRICTS, THE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS, I THINK THAT'S GOOD. AS FAR AS THE NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS, YOU'RE PROBABLY BETTER OFF TO HAVE THE NUMBER AROUND SEVEN. MAYBE COULD EXPAND IT, BUT THE LARGER THE GROUP, THE MORE PROBLEMS YOU HAVE IN THE LEGISLATIVE. AND SO MY VIEWS ON IT. AND WHAT MR. AMBLER HAD SAID EARLIER ABOUT THE NORTHERN AREA OF THE COUNTY NOT FAVORING, YOU KNOW, A CHANGE. THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING FROM THE EASTERN AREA OVER THERE. IN ONE OF THE THINGS WE VIEW IT AS A STEP TOWARD CONSOLIDATION. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT OUTLYING AREA DON'T WANT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US LET IT ALONE, GIVE IT A CHANCE TO WORK. THE ADMINISTRATOR IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, AND YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO, LIKE, THE ELECTED OFFICIAL, BUT HE'S THE CHIEF, YOU KNOW, EXECUTIVE OF THE COUNTY. AND PEOPLE NEED TO GO TO HIM FOR THE ANSWERS. MR. HARGRETT MADE A POINT THE OTHER DAY. HE COULDN'T GET ANYTHING FROM THE COUNTY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHEN HE NEEDED ANSWERS. AND I -- HE NEVER DID ANSWER ME THAT I THOUGHT -- YOU KNOW, WHEN I ASKED THE QUESTION, DID THEY GO TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, BECAUSE HE IS THE ONE THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO GO TO. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE SYSTEM STAY IN PLACE AND GIVE IT A CHANCE TO WORK. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. BALLARD. COMMENTS FROM THIS SIDE. MR. WILKES. >> IT'S ON I'M ALSO FROM THE EASTERN PART OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AND THE ISSUES OVER THERE THAT I HEAR THAT -- THAT'S ON THE STREETS THAT ARE CONVERSED ARE THE DISTRICT AND REPRESENTATION. THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT SEEMS TO BE ALL RIGHT. IT NEEDS TWEAKING AS WE HAVE SAID HERE TONIGHT. THE PARTISAN, NONPARTISAN ISSUE COMES UP FROM TIME TO TIME, BUT THOSE ARE THE PRIMARY ISSUES. THE ONE THAT I HAVE OBSERVED HERE IS PERHAPS THE CHARTER REVIEW, HOW WE ARE DOING THINGS AND WHETHER WE CAN DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT. I DON'T KNOW. BUT THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE FOR THE CHARTER REVIEW SEEMS TO BE -- NEEDS SOME TWEAKING JUST LIKE OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT DOES. THE ISSUE OF ELECTED MAYOR IS JUST -- IS NOT EVEN DISCUSSED. WHEN IT IS, IT'S AN ABSOLUTE NO. >>JAN SMITH: WHAT DO YOU HEAR, MR. WILKES, REGARDING TERM LIMITS? DO YOU GET SENSE THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH TERM LIMITS OR WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT? IS IT AN ISSUE THAT -- >> IT'S NOT THAT BIG OF AN ISSUE AT THIS TIME. YOU'RE BEGINNING TO HEAR MORE AND MORE BECAUSE OF SOME LIMITATIONS THAT PERHAPS TERM LIMITS ARE PUTTING ON ELECTED OFFICIALS. >>JAN SMITH: ARE THERE TERM LIMITS ON THE PLANT CITY COMMISSION. >> THERE ARE NO TERM LIMITS, BUT THE VOTERS REALLY TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEMS LIKE THAT. I JUST FELT THAT 13 YEARS WAS LONG ENOUGH. I STEPPED DOWN. YOU KNOW, TO GIVE SOMEBODY ELSE TO HAVE A CHANCE. >> WE HEARD IN SOME CONVERSATION EARLIER IN A MEETING OR TWO WHERE IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET ANY ANSWERS OUT OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY GOVERNMENT. AND, AGAIN, THAT GOES BACK TO THESE -- IT SHOULD BE DIRECTED BACK TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. AND WHETHER HE IS FULFILLING THAT, I DON'T KNOW. BUT WE HEARD I BELIEVE IT WAS MS. TUTTLE MADE THE COMMENT THAT IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET AN ANSWER THAT REPRESENTED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AND TO ME, THAT SHOULD GO BACK TO THE ADMINISTRATOR, MR. KLEMAN. I KNOW IN OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN PLANT CITY, IF THERE'S A QUESTION, IT GOES BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION -- I MEAN, THE CITY MANAGER. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. WE'RE OVER HERE. MR. BELTRAN, DO YOU HAVE COMMENTS -- MS. WILLIAMS, WERE YOU RAISING YOUR HAND? >>DEE WILLIAMS: I'LL WAIT. GO AHEAD. >>JAN SMITH: MR. BELTRAM. >> ACCORDING TO WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, I FEEL IT IS A QUESTION THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ARE NOT REPLYING, WE SHOULD REQUEST QUESTION THAT AND SAY WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANSWERING. BECAUSE THAT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM WHEN YOU CALL ANY OFFICE IN ANY GOVERNMENT. WHO IS THE RESPONSIBLE PERSON THAT YOU CAN ASK THIS QUESTION? BECAUSE THE SAME QUESTION ASKED ME -- MANY PEOPLE ASK ME, WHO DO I CALL? NOW, RIGHT NOW, IF I HAVE A PROBLEM, WHERE I LIVE, I'LL -- SINCE I LIVE IN THE CITY, I CALL THE CITY DEPARTMENT. BUT SOMETIMES, IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE RIGHT PERSON WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROBLEM. THE COLLECTION OF GARBAGE, THE WATER, OR THE DIFFERENT PARTS. WE NEED TO KNOW TO WHOM WE DIRECT THE QUESTION. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTY. WHO WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANSWERING YET. AND THAT'S VERY BADLY NEEDED. -- ANSWERING THE QUESTION. AND THAT'S VERY BADLY NEEDED IN THE COUNTY, THE CITY, AND EVERYWHERE ELSE. >>GERALD WHITE: MR. CHAIRMAN, I FEEL A LITTLE BLINDSIDED BY THAT WHEN SENATOR HARGRETT MENTIONED THAT. BECAUSE AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, IF HE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSION OR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATION, HE SHOULD HAVE LET THE PUBLIC KNOW, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE HAVE THE CONVENING OF A CHARTER REVIEW BOARD AND HEAR THERE HAS BEEN COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS AND ANSWERS TO CRITICAL QUESTIONS PROBLEMS. BUT THE PUBLIC WAS NOT AWARE OF THIS. SO I FEEL, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE I NEED TO KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY. WE'VE HEARD FROM THE LEGISLATIVE SIDE; I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATION AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE GIVING DIFFERENT ANSWERS WHEN THEY HAVE TAKEN A POSITION ON AN ISSUE. >>JAN SMITH: IT SEEMS TO ME, MR. WHITE, AND I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS, THAT A LOT OF THE DIFFICULTY OF THE PAST YEAR WAS OVER THE CHANGING OF TAMPA GENERAL FROM A PUBLIC TO A PRIVATE HOSPITAL. AN THAT WAS THE ISSUE THAT -- AND THAT WAS THE ISSUE. THAT AND THE ISSUE OF THE INSURANCE AND THE LIENS ON HOUSES. TO COLLECT PAYMENT FOR MEDICAL BILLS. THOSE TWO ISSUES WERE ISSUES THAT REALLY CAME ABOUT IN GREAT DEAL BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE FROM A PUBLIC TO A PRIVATE HOSPITAL. IN SOME SENSE. AS A RESULT, I DON'T THINK POLICY HAD EVER BEEN DETERMINED. AND SO IT PROBABLY WAS VERY DIFFICULT ACROSS THE BOARD TO GIVE AN OPINION AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WHERE SOMEONE WAS BECAUSE THAT ISSUE HAD NOT PRESENTED ITSELF UNTIL THE CHANGE IN THE HOSPITAL'S ORGANIZATION. AND I THINK WHEN THAT CAME UP, IT BECAME A REAL BONE OF CONTENTION BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION, AND AS SITUATIONS LIKE THAT ARE LIABLE TO CAUSE TO OCCUR, THE PRESS GOT KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. AND I THINK THERE WERE HARSH WORDS ON BOTH SIDES. AND -- PERSONALLY, I'M NOT SURE YET WHETHER THAT WHOLE THING HAS BEEN RESOLVED. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME THINGS DONE, BUT I THINK THE ISSUE IS STILL OUT THERE AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A BIT MORE DEBATE ON THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER ISSUE WAS OUT THAT CAUSED THAT ACRIMONY BETWEEN THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION AND THE BOARD. PERHAPS THE PENNYS FOR POTHOLES COULD HAVE SOME ROLE INTO IT. I COULDN'T SAY. >>DAVID HURLEY: MR. HARGRETT WAS IN THE SENATE AND SUPPORTED THE BILL THEY PUT FORWARD REGARDING AN ELECTED COUNTY MAYOR. SO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY EVIDENT AT THIS POINT HE WASN'T REAL HAPPY WITH THE SITUATION AND THE WAY IT WAS GOING. I DON'T THINK I WAS BLINDSIDED BY WHAT HE SAID. HIS REASONING WAS MORE IN-DEPTH THAN ANYTHING I'VE HEARD UP UNTIL THAT TIME. BUT SOME OF THE DISCUSSION THAT THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION HAD REGARDING THAT PARTICULAR PROPOSAL WOULD HAVE LED US TO BELIEVE THERE WAS A COMMUNICATION PROBLEM. IT'S PROBABLY -- IT PROBABLY WILL CONTINUE TO BE. I THINK IF WE SAY, WELL, THE ADMINISTRATOR IS THE ONE THEY SHOULD CONTACT, AND WHAT HE SAYS -- BUT THAT'S KIND OF HARD WHEN IT'S THE BOARD THAT SETS THE POLICY ALWAYS. AND, YOU KNOW, THE -- THERE'S COMMISSIONERS WHO WONDER ABOUT HOW CLOSELY HE FOLLOWS THE POLICY AND SOMETIMES THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE A HARD TIME FIGURING OUT WHAT THE POLICY IS THEMSELVES. SO PROBABLY REALLY MAKES US -- PROBABLY WHY DAN KLEMAN HAS WHITE HAIR. TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE POLICY IS. I WAS NOT AT ALL SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT FROM SENATOR HARGRETT BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN OPEN ABOUT THAT DURING SESSION, OR PRIOR TO SESSION, I GUESS. >>GERALD WHITE: MY OTHER PROBLEM WAS DEALING WITH THE NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS. THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION IS, HOW MANY CITIZENS SHOULD EACH -- HOW MANY CITIZENS SHOULD EACH COMMISSIONER REPRESENT. SHOULD IT BE 100,000, 150,000, 200,000? HOW MANY. I THINK THAT'S THE ANSWER THAT WE NEED TO ASK OURSELVES, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY COMMISSIONERS DOES IT TAKE TO DO AN EFFECTIVE JOB FOR ALL THE RESIDENTS OF THIS COUNTY. I THINK WE CAN ASSURE, AS CITIZENS, THAT THEY GET ALONG AS A BODY AND A BOARD. I THINK THAT'S THE SECOND QUESTION. THE FIRST QUESTION IN MY MIND, ARE THE PEOPLE GOING TO GET REPRESENTATION. SO THAT'S WHY WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT ADDING ADDITIONAL SEATS BASED ON THE POPULATION GROWTH. IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT, WHAT, 700,000 OR MAYBE 800,000 RESIDENTS WHEN THIS ORIGINAL NUMBER WAS CREATED. IT JUST SEEMS -- SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE ASKED. I JUST WANT TO THROW THAT OUT. >>JAN SMITH: AS YOU AND MR. BELTRAM HAS MADE YOUR COMMENTS, IT'S AN INTERESTING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ACCESS YOU ALL HAVE AS CITY RESIDENTS TO YOUR CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR AND THEN, ALSO, TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND WHO IS ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR WHATEVER THE QUESTION IS AND WHAT THE SOLUTION IS. AND THOSE THAT LIVE IN UNINCORPORATED COUNTY HAVE, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY LESS REPRESENTATION OF ELECTED OFFICIALS BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY LIVE IN UNINCORPORATED COUNTIES. SO IT'S AN INTERESTING CONUNDRUM, I THINK, TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW THOSE NUMBERS SHOULD BE OUT. ON THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT NUMBERS AND APPOINTMENTS, TAMPA, PLANT CITY, AND TEMPLE TERRACE ARE IN THE COUNTY. AND I REALIZE THAT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY HAS OVER ARCHING RESPONSIBILITIES, AND THEN THE PNEUMONIA -- MUNICIPAL SERVICES THEY PROVIDE. I WONDER IF THE APPOINTMENTS TO THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD BE SOMEWHAT REFLECTIVE OF THAT. HAVE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SAY -- HAVE SEVEN APPOINTEES TO THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. SHOULD THE CITY OF TAMPA HAVE PERHAPS TWO, PLANT CITY ONE AND TEMPLE TERRACE ONE. IS THERE SOMETHING THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT? AS YOU START TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS AND DISTRICTS, THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR ME. BECAUSE THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT HOW THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD IS APPOINTED. I'VE HEARD MORE OF THAT IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS THAN ANY OTHER ISSUE. PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW HOW IT IS RAY POINTED, WHY IT IS APPOINTED THE WAY IT IS, AND WHO THE PEOPLE ARE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE ISSUE DEE WILLIAMS HAS RAISED AND WHERE THE PEOPLE LIVE, THEN LOOK AROUND THIS BOARD AND SEE HOW MANY LIVE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, AS OPPOSED TO UNINCORPORATED COUNTY. >>DAVID HURLEY: HOW MANY LIVE IN LUTZ. >>JAN SMITH: TWO. >>DAVID HURLEY: SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE BEING OVERREPRESENTED. [ LAUGHTER ] >>JAN SMITH: THERE'S EAST LUTZ AND I LIVE IN SOUTHWEST LUTZ. >>DAVID HURLEY: WHICH IS TWO BLOCKS AWAY. [ LAUGHTER ] >>JAN SMITH: NOT ONE OF US LIVE IN WHAT IS CALLED LUTZ PROPER. >>DAVID HURLEY: GOT A LUTZ DEFINITION, I THINK. >>GERALD WHITE: I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WORTH LOOKING AT. NOT JUST THE MUNICIPALITIES HAVING A SAY-SO IN THE MAKE-UP OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, BUT IF YOU LOOKED AT THE DELEGATION MEETING WHEN THEY WERE DISCUSSING THE BILL. SENATOR GRANT TALKED ABOUT HAVING REPRESENTATION ON THE BOARD AS WELL. SO I THINK A GOOD MAKE-UP OF ALL SEGMENTS COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. YOU KNOW, BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE REALITY. THE CHARTER IS A COUNTY CHARTER, AND IT'S ENFORCED AND OVERSEEN BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SO THAT'S WHY IT WAS CREATED AND THEY OVERSEE IT. >>JAN SMITH: JUST AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION I MADE WHILE TRYING TO MAKE UP MY COLUMNS HERE. GENTLEMEN, DO EITHER OF YOU HAVE -- JOHN IS WRITING NERVOUSLY. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I'LL GO WHENEVER. >>JAN SMITH: MR. BEDKE. >>MIKE BEDKE: SURE. I'LL JUMP RIGHT IN. I KEEP HEARING ABOUT THREE ISSUES. AND I'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT THEM FOR THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS AS PEOPLE HAVE REALLY GOTTEN FOCUSED ON WHAT WE'VE DONE, LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE DISCUSSION ON THE ADD TORE WHICH DID BRING PEOPLE, IT SEEMED LIKE, OUT OF THE WOODWORK. THE THREE ISSUES I HEAR ABOUT REPEATEDLY ARE PARTISAN VERSUS NONPARTISAN. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ON BOTH SIDES, BUT I KEEP HEARING ABOUT IT. PEOPLE KEEP SAYING I AM A STRONG BELIEVER IN THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM. WE KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY IS WHETHER THEY HAVE LABELS OR NOT. OTHER PEOPLE SAY SIT THROUGH A COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING, SIT THROUGH A CITY COUNCIL MEETING AND THE TONE IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT. AND HAVING DONE THAT TODAY, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S SYSTEM I CAN BECAUSE OF THAT ISSUE OR NOT, BUT -- SYSTEM I CAN BECAUSE OF THAT ISSUE OR NOT BUT SEEMS TO BE A PERCEPTION PECULATING OUT THERE THAT THAT NEEDS TO ADDRESSED OR AT LEAST TALKED ABOUT. THE OTHER ISSUE IS SOME FORM OF COUNTY EXECUTIVE. COUNTY MAYOR, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, ELECTED CHAIR. AGAIN I HEAR REPEATEDLY FROM THE PEOPLE IN ODESSA, KEYSTONE, LUTZ, EAST COUNTY, SOUTH COUNTY, IT'S A BAD IDEA. THE DOWNTOWN SOUTH TAMPA INTERESTS WILL CONTROL. AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING. OTHER PEOPLE SAY, I LIVE IN UNINCORPORATED COUNTY, WE GET OUR CLOCKS CLEANED ALL THE TIME BECAUSE MAYOR GRECO COMES AND SPEAKS FOR THE CITY AND CAN CUT DEALS WE CAN'T CUT. AGAIN, STRONG FEELINGS ON BOTH SIDES AND THERE IS SOMETHING PERCULATING OUT THERE ON THAT PARTICULAR POINT. THE OTHER THING I'VE HEARD ABOUT IS TERM LIMITS AND WHETHER THERE REALLY ARE GOING TO BE TERM LIMITS. AND PEOPLE SAY, WELL, TERM LIMITS WE OUGHT TO EITHER ABOLISH THEM OR HAVE TRUE TERM LIMITS. MOVE TO ANOTHER DISTRICT. EITHER ABOLISH IT OR LET'S ENFORCE IT. AND DO SOMETHING. AND THOSE ARE THE THREE ISSUES I KEEP HEARING ABOUT. AND FRANKLY, I HAVEN'T MADE UP MY MIND ON ANY OF THEM. BUT, I THINK THOSE ARE THINGS I'D LIKE FOR US TO DISCUSS BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES THAT I KEEP WRESTLING WITH, FRANKLY, IS SHOULD WE ONLY VOTE OUT OF COMMITTEE, IF YOU WILL, THOSE THINGS THAT WE PERSONALLY AGREE WITH ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. OR SHOULD WE TRY AND VET THE IDEA, TRY TO GET THE BEST PROPOSAL WE CAN, PUT IT ON THE BALLOT AND LET THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS, THAT BEING THE VOTERS MAKE THE DECISION. >>JAN SMITH: MR. -- >>MIKE BEDKE: THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. BEDKE. MR. BALES. [ INAUDIBLE ] >> -- I HAD THE PLEASURE OF SITTING HERE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW, AND I'VE ENJOYED IT. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS MORE OF THE OVERALL ISSUES IF I COULD AND THEN TRY TO FOCUS IN. I AGREE WITH THE CONCEPT THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT THE CONSTITUENTS' POSITIONS. AND I'M GLAD WE ARE DOING THAT, BUT I ALSO THINK EQUALLY OREGON MAYBE EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, DEPENDING ON WHAT DAY YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT IT, IS TO HAVE BONA FIDE DEBATE AND SERIOUS REFLECTION BY THIS BOARD. I THINK THAT'S AN INTELLECTUAL WAY OF ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES. SO I'M GLAD TONIGHT WE ARE DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING. THIS IS THE MOST POSITIVE THING I THINK WE HAVE PROBABLY DONE. I AM STILL CONCERNED, THOUGH, THAT OVER AN HOUR OR MORE TONIGHT WAS SPENT ON WHAT I CONSIDER PROCEDURAL ISSUES. I AM AFRAID TOO MANY TIMES WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN THE NUANCES OF PROCEDURE TO TRY TO INCREASE OUR WILL ON THE BOARD. AND I THINK A LOT OF TIMES, IF WE JUST LET THE CHAIR, WHO WE ELECTED, SET THE PROCEDURE AND MOVE FORWARD, WE CAN GET TO THE SUBSTANCE. SO WHAT I CHALLENGE US TO DO, INCLUDING ME, IS TO BE BOLD. AND TO BE BOLD BY GETTING TO THE SUBSTANCE OF THE ISSUES. BE BOLD BY WHEN WE JUST TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE GOING TO ADDRESS, ALL OF THEM VERY IMPORTANT, THAT WE -- WHEN WE VOICE OUR OPINION ON THEM, I HOPE THAT WE ARE CLOSE TO MIDDLE GROUND ON OUR POSITIONS. IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN I SAY I AM FOR THIS ISSUE OR I AM AGAINST THIS ISSUE, I HOPE A PERSON DOESN'T GET WAY OUT ON ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER, BUT THEY ARE CLOSER TO THE MIDDLE SO THEY CAN BE PERSUADED BY BONA FIDE DEBATE OR SERIOUS REFLECTION. FOR EXAMPLE, DEE WILLIAMS' IDEA MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME. MY FIRST THOUGHT IS THAT'S IT, I AM FOR THAT. I AM GOING TO DRIVE THAT HOME. ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE'S A PART OF ME THAT SAYS, HOLD IT. LET'S SEE WHAT EVERYBODY HAS TO SAY. AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT VIEWS HERE, AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT SORT OF -- IT MAKES ME ADJUST. SO LET'S BE BOLD BY NOT FORMULATING THE BOTTOM-LINE IDEA ON OUR POSITIONS AT THIS TIME. LET'S BE BOLD BY NOT SAYING, WELL, WE'VE ADDRESSED IT IN THE PAST. IT DIDN'T WORK. I KNOW ALL ABOUT THAT BECAUSE MAYBE SOMEBODY HERE WILL HAVE A NEW IDEA. PARTLY WHAT UPSETS ME SOMETIMES IS I HEAR PEOPLE COMMENT ABOUT WHAT THE CONSTITUENCY SAYS OR WHAT SOME COMMISSIONER SAID OR WHAT COMMISSIONER SAW, AND THEY THROW OUT A NUMBER OF HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY'VE SEEN, AND THEN I HEAR THEM LAUNCH INTO WHAT THEIR IDEAS ARE. LET'S DISCUSS OUR IDEAS. LET'S BRING THEM OUT. LET'S THINK WHAT WE THINK BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY THAT MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE PUT ON A BOARD ARE ELECTED TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE DON'T HAVE. BECAUSE ANYTHING WE DO, THERE IS GOING TO BE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE DECIDE IT ULTIMATELY. BECAUSE ANYTHING WE DO IS GOING TO BE DECIDED BY THE VOTERS. MOST OF THE TIME WHEN YOU'RE ON A COMMITTEE OR YOU ARE A REPRESENTATIVE OF SOME CAPACITY, WHETHER A COMMISSIONER, A LEGISLATOR, A MAYOR, A PRESIDENT, YOU MAKE DECISIONS, AND YOU REALLY DON'T FIND OUT ABOUT THE OVERALL PART OF IT UNTIL FOUR YEARS LATER OR WHATEVER TIME FOR REELECTION. ANYTHING WE DECIDE HERE IS GOING TO BE ULTIMATELY DECIDED BY THE VOTERS. SO ONCE AGAIN, I AM HARPING ON BOLD. LET'S BE BOLD, AND LET'S PUT SOME THINGS OUT THERE. AND I TELL YOU ONE THING THAT I -- I LEAN IN FAVOR OF. BY THE WAY, I APPRECIATED, DAVID, BY YOU SAYING I HAVE SOME IDEAS. I AM NOT CONVINCED THEY ARE THE RIGHT ONES. I WILL PUT IT OUT TONIGHT. I HAVE IDEAS. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE THE RIGHT ONES. DEE WILLIAMS, YOUR IDEA SOUNDS GREAT. I MIGHT CHANGE. ANOTHER IDEA I THINK WE SHOULD BE BOLD ON IS I THINK WE SHOULD SERIOUSLY REFLECT ON THE IDEA OF THE WAY THIS COUNTY GOVERNMENT IS SET UP. I THINK WE SHOULD CONSIDER A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT OR THE WEAK MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. QUITE FRANKLY, TERRY, I APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING ON THE TABLE. I'LL PUT MY CARDS OUT THERE TOO. I HAVE AN INCLINATION LEANING TOWARD THE WEAK MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. ELECTING A CHAIR OF -- NOT NECESSARILY A STRONG FORM WHERE YOU HAVE A SEPARATE MAYOR, BUT ELECTING A CHAIR TO TRY TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE FOCUS SOMETIMES, OR TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE PERSPECTIVE OR IDEAS ON IT. NOW, SAYING THOSE TONIGHT -- LET ME STEP BACK. EARLIER WE WERE ASKED WHAT OUR POSITIONS WERE. I DIDN'T FILL OUT THE SHEET. IT WASN'T DISRESPECT TO ANYONE HERE NOT FILLING OUT THE SHEET. I'M NOT SURE. I AM REALLY TRYING TO BE AS SMART AS I CAN BE. I DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD THAT IS. BUT AS SMART AS I CAN BE AND MAKE GOOD DECISIONS. BUT I'M GETTING THESE SENSES WHERE I'D LIKE TO GO, AND I AM HOPING OTHER PEOPLE WILL DO THE SAME. IT WAS A LONG, RAMBLING SPEECH, BUT SINCERELY FELT. LET'S BE BOLD, LET'S NOT GET LOCKED INTO A POSITION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. LET'S AS A GROUP WORK TOGETHER. LIKE I SAID THE LAST TIME, IF IT'S A CLOSE CALL TO YOU AND IF YOU THINK IT'S A POSSIBILITY IT COULD HELP, I RECOMMEND THAT WE PUT IT OUT THERE TO THE VOTERS AND GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO DECIDE. THANKS. >> THANK YOU, MR. BALES. MR. LaBOUR, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY? IMPOSSIBLE. IMPOSSIBLE. WELL, I AM GOING TO SAY SOMETHING AFTER ALL OF THESE YEARS AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH COUNTY GOVERNMENT, AND IT'S BEEN ABOUT 20 YEARS' WORTH. THAT THE COMMENTS THAT I HEAR AND THAT I'M SURE THEY ARE THE SAME ONES THAT MANY OF YOU ARE HEARING IS THAT WE ARE OR AREN'T, DEPENDING ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE, ELECTING THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO OFFICE. OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR IS OR IS NOT DOING HIS JOB. THE BOARD DOES OR DOESN'T TRUST HIM. AND SO OVER THE LAST -- WELL, AS MR. BALES SAID, SINCE WE STARTED SITTING HERE -- I'VE THOUGHT OVER AND OVER AGAIN -- AND I'M SURE SOME OF YOU THINK THAT I COME HERE WITH A CERTAIN POSITION ON WHAT I THINK OF THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE OF THE PERSON WHO APPOINTED ME. AND YET, LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT I CAN THINK FOR MYSELF, AND I TRY VERY HARD TO DO THAT. BUT I ALSO LIKE TO HEAR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY. AS I WAS THINKING ABOUT A STRONG MAYOR, LET ME JUST GIVE YOU TWO OBSERVATIONS. A STRONG MAYOR TAKES AWAY MY ABILITY, I BELIEVE, TO INFLUENCE SEVEN COMMISSIONERS BECAUSE I PERSONALLY THINK IF YOU HAVE A STRONG MAYOR, THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DIFFERENT MAKEUP OF COMMISSION DISTRICTS. SO I FEEL LIKE SOME OF MY INFLUENCE IS -- IS DIMINISHED, AND I WOULD SAY, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW WE DON'T LIKE TO SEPARATE US INTO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE, WE SHOULD ALL BE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTYANS. BUT YOU LOOK AT HOW THAT GOING TO A STRONG MAYOR MAYBE DILUTES THE INPUT OF VARIOUS COMMUNITIES, ASIAN, BLACK, HISPANIC, WHATEVER, IF YOU GO TO THE STRONG MAYOR. AT THE SAME TIME, IT DIMINISHES THE INFLUENCE OF THE BOARD BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND HAVING A COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND THEY -- THEY SHOULD BE, AS IN A CORPORATION, WORKING WELL TOGETHER TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY, IF YOU PUT THAT STAFF UNDER AN ELECTED EXECUTIVE, THEN THAT STAFF IS TRULY RESPONSIBLE TO THE ELECTED EXECUTIVE AS OPPOSED TO THE COMMISSION, AND SO IT FURTHER DILUTES THE INDIVIDUAL VOTER OR THE GROUP'S ABILITY TO INFLUENCE GOVERNMENT AND HOW IT AFFECTS YOU PERSONALLY. AT THE SAME TIME, I HAVE TO COME BACK AND THINK OF WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD DO THINGS MORE EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CITY OF TAMPA HAS TAKEN SOME GIANT STRIDES IN THE LAST FEW YEARS WITH THE CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATION AND A GO-GETTER MAYOR? AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T THINK THE CITY HASN'T MOVED FORWARD ON MANY FRONTS, MAYBE NOT ALL THE ONES THAT YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO. SO I'M FEELING GREAT MIXED FEELINGS OVER THE STRONG MAYOR. AS FAR AS AN ELECTED COMMISSION CHAIRMAN, THEN I DEBATE THE ISSUE BETWEEN WHAT ORANGE COUNTY HAS, WHICH, TO ME, IS EXTREMELY MUDDY. THE -- THE CHAIRMAN IN ORANGE COUNTY -- AND THAT'S A NONPARTISAN ELECTION OVER THERE -- THE CHAIRMAN APPOINTS THE ADMINISTRATOR. I THINK WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE BOARD, BUT I WOULDN'T SWEAR TO IT. CAN FIRE THE ADMINISTRATOR. SITS WITH THE BOARD, CHAIRS THE MEETINGS, AND VOTES ON ALL ISSUES. SO THAT SETUP CONCERNS ME BECAUSE OF THE VIOLATION OF THE SUNSHINE THAT I SEE BEING SET UP TO BE A PROBLEM. THEN IF YOU LOOK AT A COMMISSION CHAIR AS IN THE CITY OF TEMPLE TERRACE, IT'S KIND OF A DIFFERENT PICTURE. WHERE YOU HAVE THE MAYOR ELECTED AT LARGE BUT SITS WITH THE COMMISSION BUT DOESN'T HAVE A VOTE. AND IT'S ALSO A NONPARTISAN RACE. AND THE COMMISSION, TOGETHER WITH THE MAYOR, APPOINTS THE ADMINISTRATOR, AND SO YOU HAVE A CONTINUITY IN TEMPLE TERRACE OF ADMINISTRATORS WITHOUT THE PARTISANSHIP THAT YOU COULD GET IN CHANGING EVERY TIME YOU CHANGED YOUR ELECTED EXECUTIVE. AND THEN I COME BACK TO WHAT WE HAVE, AND WONDER IF THERE AREN'T JUST SOME THINGS, LIKE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT MS. WILLIAMS HAS MADE. COULD WE, IN FACT, GIVE THE CHAIRMAN SOME RESPONSIBILITIES THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN WE HAVE NOW? COULD YOU SAY, FOR INSTANCE, THAT THE CHAIRMAN WOULD BE -- WE DO A TWO-YEAR BUDGET IN THE COUNTY NOW. SHOULD WE ELECT THE CHAIRMAN FOR TWO YEARS TO BE THE PERSON THAT, MAYBE, SETS A VISION AND SAYS THIS IS THE BUDGET AND WORKS THAT BUDGET WITH THE ADMINISTRATOR? SHOULD THAT PERSON REALLY BE THE ONE THAT HAS THE CEREMONIAL DUTIES, WHICH, IN FACT, THEY PRETTY MUCH DO. THEY SIGN THE ORDINANCE, PETITIONS, RESOLUTIONS, ET CETERA. SHOULD THIS PERSON HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE OUT THERE AND KIND OF DEVELOP A VISION OF THE COUNTY AND GIVE A STATE OF THE COUNTY REPORT? ARE THERE THINGS THAT WE COULD DO WITH WHAT WE HAVE NOW TO FOCUS LEADERSHIP ON OUR CHAIRMAN WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A DRASTIC STRUCTURAL CHANGE? AND THERE MAY VERY WELL BE IF -- IF WE GIVE IT VERY SERIOUS CONSIDERATION. SO I'VE BEEN TRYING TO THINK THROUGH ALL THREE OF THESE, AND A COUPLE YEARS AGO, IF I HAD LEANED TOWARD A CHANGE, IT WOULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN TO THE COMMISSION CHAIR MORE LIKE TEMPLE TERRACE THAN ORANGE COUNTY. I WILL SAY THAT A LOT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE CITY OF TAMPA AND HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS HAS BEEN A RESULT OF A RIP-ROARING ECONOMY. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE OF WHAT ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE OR HAVE NOT DONE. IT'S JUST THAT WE'VE HAD A DYNAMITE ECONOMY IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND THAT PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN HOW HAPPY PEOPLE ARE WITH WHAT'S GOING ON HERE AND WITH THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS. SO I FEEL LIKE I'M A -- I'M WILLING TO BE -- TO LISTEN, TO HAVE SOMEBODY CONVINCE ME THAT -- THAT THINGS NEED TO BE DIFFERENT OR THAT THINGS NEED TO STAY THE SAME, BUT I FEEL LIKE I'M -- I'M BACK AT SQUARE ONE. I FEEL LIKE I'M AT MY VERY FIRST CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, AND I WANT TO HAVE THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION ALL OVER AGAIN. AND SO THOSE ARE PRETTY MUCH MY POSITIONS. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF YOU FEEL, BUT MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: WELL, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GO BACK A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, WHEN THE CHAIR, COMMISSIONER FRANK, DISPLAYED SOME LEADERSHIP, AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS MAGIC. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MAY NOT AGREE WITH THE ISSUE AND ALL THAT, BUT THE LEADERSHIP THAT WAS SHOWN ON THE PART OF THAT CHAIR, I SAW SOME MAGIC. I SAW SOMETHING NEW THERE. AND HOW CAN WE INCORPORATE THAT? HOW CAN WE GIVE THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD THE POWER TO BE THE LEADER OF THIS EXISTING BOARD? THAT WOULD BE THE MORE -- MORE DIRECTION THAT I WOULD WANT TO GO. THE QUESTION THAT I'M HEARING OUT THERE, THEY WANT POLITICAL LEADERSHIP. THEY WANT SOMEBODY TO LEAD. WELL, HOW CAN WE -- HOW CAN WE GIVE THE PERSON THAT'S IN POWER RIGHT NOW WITH THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE THE TOOLS TO BE THE POLITICAL LEADER, TO BE THE LEADER OF THE COMMUNITY TO GET THE JOB DONE? THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT I -- I'M ASKING EVERYONE TO CONSIDER. AND ANOTHER THOUGHT TOTALLY DIFFERENT WITH THE STRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE NOW, WHAT CAN WE DO WITH THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR POSITION? I THINK YOU SAY THEY APPOINT THE MAYOR IN PLANT CITY -- >> THEY ELECT THE MAYOR. THE FIVE COMMISSIONERS ELECTS ONE OF THEM AS THE MAYOR. >>JAN SMITH: EXCUSE ME. LET ME -- JUST FOR A MINUTE. IS THAT FOR ONE YEAR, TWO, FOUR? >> ONE YEAR AT A TIME. >>JAN SMITH: ONE YEAR AT A TIME. THANK YOU. >>GERALD WHITE: I DON'T KNOW. AS COMPLEX AND AS DYNAMIC AS THIS COUNTY IS AND THE PROFESSIONALISM THAT YOU NEED TO RUN THIS MASSIVE ORGANIZATION, WHY COULDN'T THE APPOINTED COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BE THE MAYOR? WHY COULDN'T THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APPOINT -- NOW CALLED THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR -- TURN THAT POSITION, CHANGE THE TITLE, LET THAT PERSON BE THE MAYOR? SUPERMAJORITY VOTE. JUST A THOUGHT. AND YOU HAVE ALL THOSE -- ALL THOSE ELEMENTS WILL STILL BE THERE, BUT THEN THE PEOPLE WILL GET WHAT THEY WANT, A MAYOR. THEY'LL GET THE PROFESSIONALISM. THEY'LL GET EVERYTHING THEY HAVE TODAY. >>JAN SMITH: SO YOU ARE SUGGESTING A NAME CHANGE. I THINK THE IMPLICATION OF MAYOR IS -- IS TOO MUCH IN PEOPLE'S MIND TO SEE IT AS AN ELECTED POSITION AND HAVE -- HAVING A SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE OVER THE ACTIVITIES OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT. YOU COULD CALL HIM THE COUNTY MANAGER, YOU KNOW, BUT I CAN'T -- THAT ONE'S MORE, I THINK, SEMANTICS, AND SO THEN IT BEGS THE QUESTION I THINK YOU'RE ASKING IS DO YOU WANT TO ELECT THAT PERSON? DO YOU WANT TO ELECT THAT ADMINISTRATOR, WHICH IS ULTIMATELY WHAT A COUNTY MAYOR OR CITY MAYOR IS, BECAUSE HE IS THE ONE THAT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR APPOINTING ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS AND ALL OF THAT, GENERALLY SPEAKING. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL DOES IT. MAYBE, MR. LaBOUR, ON THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL -- I AM GOING TO MAKE YOU ANSWER A QUESTION IF I CAN'T GET YOU TO TALK. ON THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL -- >>STEVE LaBOUR: I JUST ENJOY LISTENING TO THIS CONVERSATION, SO I -- >>JAN SMITH: TAMPA CITY COUNCIL. HOW DOES THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE MAYOR GET TO THE POINT OF APPOINTING MEMBERS TO THE SPORTS AUTHORITY, THE AVIATION? THE REASON I ASK YOU THE QUESTION IS YEARS AGO, WHEN I ATTENDED A GREAT MANY OF THE WEST COAST REGIONAL WATER SUPPLY AUTHORITY MEETINGS, THE PERSON THAT SAT IN THE SEAT AS A VOTING MEMBER OF THE BOARD OVER THERE WAS MIKE -- YEAH. MIKE SALMON. HE WAS NOT A MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL. HE WAS, IN FACT, THE STAFF PERSON, AND HE WAS THE ONE THAT SAT ON THAT BOARD AND HAD A VOTE. SO I'M CURIOUS AS TO HOW THE CITY, UNDER A STRONG MAYOR, APPOINTS THE PEOPLE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TO THE VARIOUS BOARDS AND AUTHORITIES. DO YOU KNOW THAT? >>STEVE LaBOUR: WELL, WHEN I WAS IN THE CITY, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, FOR INSTANCE, IS SET UP SO THAT THE MAYOR HAS AN APPOINTMENT AND CITY COUNCIL HAS APPOINTMENTS, SO THE MAYOR WOULD JUST GO AHEAD, AND IT'S UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL MAYOR AS TO WHAT PROCESS THEY USE, WHETHER THEY GO OUT AND ADVERTISE THAT THERE'S A VACANCY AND SUBMIT RESUMES, OR IF THEY, YOU KNOW, JUST CALL A COUPLE OF PEOPLE AND ASK IF THEY ARE INTERESTED. AND THE COUNTY -- THE CITY COUNCIL, EXCUSE ME -- THEY ALSO HAVE, FROM TIME TO TIME, USED DIFFERENT PROCESSES TO MAKE THEIR APPOINTMENTS, BUT MOST OF THE APPOINTMENTS THAT ARE MADE ARE SET UP BY THE ACTUAL BOARDS THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT THE MAYOR -- FOR INSTANCE, THE STATE LEGISLATURE CHANGED ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO THAT REQUIRED THAT THE MAYOR SIT ON THE PORT AUTHORITY, AND THE MAYOR HAS TO, AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS INTERPRETED THAT THE MAYOR COULD ACTUALLY MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO SIT ON THEIR BEHALF. AND SO I DO KNOW THAT MAYOR GRECO HAS NOT SAT ON SOME BOARDS AND ACTUALLY HAS ASKED SOMEONE TO BE THE REPRESENTATIVE. I THINK EVEN IN ONE CASE IT WAS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER THAT HE ASKED. SO I THINK IT'S THE INTERPRETATION OF THE DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS AS TO HOW THEY WANT TO DEAL WITH THOSE APPOINTMENTS, BUT IT'S NOT SET IN STONE, AND IT'S NOT A PART OF THE CHARTER. >>JAN SMITH: INTERESTING. THANK YOU. MR. BALLARD. >>TERRY BALLARD: JUST A POINT IN THINKING OF THINGS. YOU KNOW, AS -- PRESENTLY WE HAVE THREE AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS AND -- SO THAT WHEN I VOTE FOR MY DISTRICT ONES, YOU'VE ACTUALLY VOTED FOR THE MAJORITY OR THE CONTROL OF IT. SHOULD THE CHAIRMAN MAYBE COME FROM THE AT-LARGE SO THAT THEY'RE VOTED ON BY ALL THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, OF HAVING A PROVISION IN THERE? THEN THAT WAY THE DISTRICTS, IF THEY WANTED TO BE THE CHAIRMAN, THEN THEY COULD RUN FOR THE AT-LARGE. AND ANOTHER THING IS EVEN THOUGH THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR IS NOT ELECTED, YOU COULD HAVE IT SOMETHING LIKE THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, KIND OF LIKE A JOB PERFORMANCE. EITHER RETAIN OR NONRETAIN. IT WOULDN'T BE BY THE VOTERS, AND THEN LEAVE IT UP TO THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, THEY GOT THE -- WHAT THE VOTERS SAID AND COULD LOOK AT IT. HE SAID TO BE BOLD, SO -- RUN THEM UP THE FLAGPOLE. >> MERIT RETENTION. >> WELL, I'M THINKING THAT ADDING MORE SINGLE DISTRICTS MAKES SENSE TO ME AT THIS POINT. AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS, AND I AM ALSO OPEN-MINDED. ALSO WHAT MS. WILLIAMS SAID CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE, WITH THE THREE AT-LARGE, AND I THINK AT THIS POINT I AGREE THAT WE NEED A GREATER LEADERSHIP WITH THE COMMISSIONERS. IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT, I THINK MR. BEDKE THREW SOMETHING OUT ON THE TABLE THE LAST MEETING OR THE MEETING BEFORE. I DON'T REMEMBER ALL YOU SAID, BUT I WAS VERY INTERESTED. YOU HAD A THOUGHT ON THE NUMBER OF DISTRICTS AND -- DO YOU REMEMBER THAT COMMENT? >>MIKE BEDKE: YES. >>ARLENE WALDRON: COULD YOU REPEAT THAT, PLEASE? >>MIKE BEDKE: SURE. IT WAS JUST A CONCEPT FOR PEOPLE TO BEGIN CHEWING ON, INCLUDING MYSELF, BUT BASED UPON THE COMMENTS THAT WE HAD HEARD FROM A NUMBER OF THE SPEAKERS THE LAST COUPLE OF MEETINGS, I THOUGHT, IT SOUND TO ME AS THOUGH THE CONCERNS THAT DEE HAS RAISED NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. SO WE'VE GOT PEOPLE OUT THERE SAYING WE WANT TO VOTE UP OR DOWN THE NOTION OF SOME EXECUTIVE, BUT, EVEN MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO THAT SEEM TO FAVOR THAT FORM AND THAT SYSTEMIC CHANGE HAVE SAID, BUT WE'VE GOT TO PROVIDE PROTECTIONS COMMENSURATE WITH THAT BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD THE CONCERNS OF THE OUTLYING AREA. AND ONE WAY TO DO THAT IS TO PROVIDE A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS SO THAT THE MINORITY COMMUNITY IS LIKELY TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE ABILITY OR AT LEAST TREMENDOUS INFLUENCE ON A SEAT. ALSO, WITH SOME OF THE AREAS LIKE SUN CITY CENTER, PLANT CITY, ODESSA/KEYSTONE, THOSE FOLKS WHO FEEL SOMEWHAT UNDERREPRESENTED THAT ARE DISENFRANCHISED NEED TO BE PROTECTED, AND AN EXPANSION OF A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL SEATS, SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT SEATS, WOULD HELP TO DO THAT. AN ADDITIONAL LEVEL OF PROTECTION WOULD BE TO, IN ESSENCE, DISTRICT THOSE AT-LARGE SEATS SO, AGAIN, THOSE AREAS ARE LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOMEONE FROM THEIR GEOGRAPHIC AREA ELECTED TO AN AT-LARGE SEAT. SO LIVING IN SOUTH TAMPA, I'M GOING TO VOTE, BUT ALL THREE OF THOSE AT-LARGE SEATS CAN'T BE MY NEIGHBORS. WE'RE GOING TO SPREAD THEM OUT ACROSS THE COUNTY. AND SO THERE WAS SORT OF A THREE-PRONGED APPROACH. LET'S TALK ABOUT A CENTRAL EXECUTIVE. AND I -- MY GUT REACTION IS PROBABLY SOME SORT OF WEAK FORM MAYOR. BUT COUPLED WITH AN EXPANSION OF PRO