1 (12/14/00 Charter Review Board) **NOTIFICATION: **This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the **following meeting. It should be used for informational **purposes only. This document has not been edited; **therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words that **did not translate. [ INAUDIBLE ] >>JAN SMITH: DECEMBER 14th, 2000 OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD. [ INAUDIBLE ] -- LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >>JAN SMITH: MY APOLOGIES, MR. BALLARD. I DON'T KNOW WHY I DID THAT, BUT I DIDN'T ASK HIM -- >>TERRY BALLARD: NOBODY KNOWS BUT ME AND YOU. >>JAN SMITH: IT'S OKAY. IT WON'T BE THE FIRST MISTAKE I MADE. CAN WE HAVE THE ROLL CALL PLEASE, MS. WEST? >>KEVIN AMBLER: HERE. >> MR. BALES. [ INAUDIBLE ] [ ROLL CALL TAKEN ] >> YOU HAVE A QUORUM. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. WE HAVE THE MINUTES FROM NOVEMBER 30th, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE ANYBODY RECEIVED THEM UNTIL THIS EVENING. HAS ANYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THESE? >>KEVIN AMBLER: I THOUGHT I GOT THEM BY E-MAIL YESTERDAY. >>JAN SMITH: DID YOU? IF IT IS THE BOARD'S PLEASURE, A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR NOVEMBER 30th. 2 >>GERALD WHITE: MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. >> SECOND. >>JAN SMITH: ADDITIONS AND CORRECTIONS. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED, SAME SIGN. THANK YOU. PUBLIC COMMENT, AND THE ONLY PERSON I HAVE SIGNED UP IS MR. DAN KLEMAN. I KNOW MR. HUGHES -- MAY I ADD YOU TO THIS? MR. KLEMAN. >>DAN KLEMAN: MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, MY NAME IS DAN KLEMAN, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. HOPE YOU'LL PARDON MY RATHER INFORMAL ATTIRE TONIGHT. I HAVE BEEN WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN AN ALL-DAY RETREAT, GOAL-SETTING SESSION. EVERYONE IS ALIVE AND WELL, I'M HAPPY TO REPORT. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE JUST ONE MOMENT AND COMMENT ON ONE ISSUE THAT ACCORDING TO YOUR AGENDA YOU MAY TAKE UP TONIGHT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME YOU'LL HAVE TO GET INTO IT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR JUST A MOMENT ABOUT THE QUESTION OF QUALIFICATIONS OF THE ADMINISTRATOR. AND THAT IS TO SUGGEST TO THE BOARD THAT WHILE I KNOW YOU HAVE RECEIVED SOME COMMENTS SUGGESTING THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO BROADEN THE WAY THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE ADMINISTRATOR ARE DEFINED IN THE CHARTER, OR AS SOME MIGHT CHARACTERIZE IT, TO LOOSEN THE QUALIFICATIONS SO THAT MORE COULD BE -- MORE PEOPLE 3 COULD BE CONSIDERED, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU INSTEAD TO TIGHTEN THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. WHOMEVER IT IS THAT IS SELECTED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, WHENEVER THAT PROCESS IS GONE THROUGH BY THE BOARD, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO SET STANDARDS THAT CALL FOR SOMEONE TO BE CONSIDERED WHO WOULD BE A VERY STRONG, PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED, LOCAL GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATOR. I WOULD SPECIFICALLY SUGGEST THAT YOU CONTINUE THE REQUIREMENT FOR A MASTER'S DEGREE OR A COMPARABLE KIND OF DEGREE. AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU, IN FACT, INCREASE OR STRENGTHEN THE QUALIFICATIONS BY ADDING LANGUAGE THAT WOULD ALSO REQUIRE THAT WHOMEVER IS SELECTED BECOME A MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL CITY-COUNTY MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION AND, IN FACT, COMMIT TO THE PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS AND CODE OF ETHICS OF THAT ORGANIZATION SO AS TO BE ABLE TO BRING TO THE ORGANIZATION THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE AND COMMITMENT TO PROFESSIONAL ETHICAL STANDARDS. I REGRET I DON'T HAVE LANGUAGE TO SUGGEST TO YOU TONIGHT, BUT IF YOUR DISCUSSION CARRIED FORWARD INTO THE FUTURE, I WILL SUBMIT TO YOU SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT WOULD BE PROPOSED LANGUAGE THAT I WOULD, AS I SAY, DESCRIBE AS IMPROVING OR STRENGTHENING THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE ADMINISTRATOR. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO RESPOND TO ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT THE SUBJECT. BE HAPPY TO GET OUT OF YOUR WAY. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION, IF I MAY, MADAM CHAIR. 4 >>JAN SMITH: YES, MR. AMBLER. >>KEVIN AMBLER: THE ORGANIZATION THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO IMPOSE AS A QUALIFICATION. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE WRITTEN INTO THE CHARTER TO BE A QUALIFICATION AFTER THE APPOINTMENT IS MADE? OR ARE YOU SUGGESTING BY YOUR COMMENTS THAT COULD BE A PRECONDITION? >>DAN KLEMAN: NO. IT COULD BE WRITTEN AS A REQUIRED COMMITMENT AFTER APPOINTMENT. IT WOULD NOT BE THAT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TO BE AS A MEMBER GOING INTO THE PROCESS, BUT I THINK WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT IT REALLY IS A STATEMENT OF STRONG COMMITMENT THAT WHAT THE COMMUNITY SEEKS IS A PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED ADMINISTRATOR WHO IS COMMITTED TO A PROFESSIONAL STANDARD AND CODE OF ETHICS. >>KEVIN AMBLER: IS THERE A CHARGE FOR BECOMING A MEMBER OF THAT ORGANIZATION? >>DAN KLEMAN: THERE IS. >>KEVIN AMBLER: IF THAT WOULD BE MADE A PART OF THE JOB REQUIREMENT AFTER BEING PICKED, WOULD THAT BE A CHARGE THAT WOULD BE TAKEN BY THE COUNTY? >>DAN KLEMAN: YES. >>KEVIN AMBLER: WHAT IS THE CHARGE FOR THAT, DO YOU KNOW? >>DAN KLEMAN: IT IS A PERCENT OF SALARY. I DON'T REMEMBER. SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS. 5 >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF MR. KLEMAN? MR. KLEMAN, OTHER THAN THE ISSUE -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: MADAM CHAIRMAN. >>HENRY BELTRAN: WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THAT ORGANIZATION? >>DAN KLEMAN: THE REQUIREMENTS DO NOT REQUIRE -- IT'S NOT LIKE BELONGING TO THE BAR, BEING A -- BEING A GRADUATE OF A PARTICULAR PROGRAM, BUT IT IS A REQUIREMENT THAT ONE HAS EXPERIENCE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND WHAT -- WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU IS THE IMPORTANT PART OF IT. IT MAKES THE COMMITMENT TO THE PROFESSIONAL STANDARD OR CODE OF ETHICS. IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE AND PARTICULARLY GOLD COAST SOUTH FLORIDA COUNTIES OR CITY GOVERNMENTS WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN CITY MANAGERS FOR COUNTY MANAGERS WHO HAVE BEEN IN SOME KIND OF TROUBLE, IN ALMOST ALL CASES THEY HAVE NOT BEEN MEMBERS OF PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION. SO I REALLY THINK IT IS A STRENGTHENING OR COMMITMENT OF THAT BY WHOEVER IS SELECTED. I WOULD ALSO SAY ONE OTHER THING THAT I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED IN MY COMMENTS. I THINK YOU ALREADY HEARD TESTIMONY FROM FRED MARQUIS FROM PINELLAS COUNTY, THE NOW RETIRED COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR OF PINELLAS COUNTY THAT IN HIS JUDGMENT AND IN HIS READING OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY QUALIFICATIONS, HE, IN FACT, WOULD MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS OF BEING CONSIDERED FOR THE POSITION OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. 6 I KNOW THAT WAS A QUESTION EARLY ON AT ONE OF YOUR MEETINGS, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED BY MR. MARQUIS THAT HE, IN FACT, WOULD QUALIFY UNDER THE LANGUAGE THAT ALLOWS A MASTER'S DEGREE OR A COMPARABLE -- >>DAVID HURLEY: MS. SMITH WAS THE ONE THAT MADE THAT DECISION. [ LAUGHTER ] >>JAN SMITH: MR. AMBLER. I MERELY READ THE CHARTER BACK. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I HAVE ONE QUICK FOLLOW-UP TO THAT. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE MASTER'S DEGREE IS SO CRITICAL AS A COMPONENT AS OPPOSED TO BROADENING LANGUAGE AND LEAVING COMMISSIONERS WITH THE DISCRETION IF THEY HAVE A CANDIDATE WITH 30, 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT WITHOUT A MASTER'S DEGREE THAT THAT CANDIDATE WOULD BE EXCLUDED? >>DAN KLEMAN: BECAUSE I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE MASTER'S DEGREE IS A COMMITMENT OF SPECIFIC PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND TRAINING THAT BECOMES AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE ABILITY TO HANDLE THE KIND OF RESPONSIBILITIES OF THIS JOB. I WON'T MAKE COMPARISONS WITH A LAW DEGREE OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IT REPRESENTS A HIGH STANDARD. YOU WOULD FIND THAT IN MOST ANY CITY OR COUNTY GOVERNMENT IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HIRED AS CITY MANAGERS OR COUNTY MANAGERS, INCLUDING THE SMALLEST PLACES WOULD, IN FACT, HAVE THAT KIND OF PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND AS A MINIMUM LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE. AND TYPICALLY, IT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE HAD GENERAL 7 MANAGEMENT TRAINING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO WORK IN A LOCAL GOVERNMENT. SIMPLY, I WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU -- SIMPLY EXPERIENCE FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A GRADUATE OF ANY COLLEGE PROGRAM AND HAPPENS TO HAVE WORKED IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT. THERE'S A SECURITY GUARD IN THIS BUILDING THAT HAS A COLLEGE DEGREE. AND IF HE HAD 25 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT, I WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN HE WOULD BE THE BEST COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. HE MIGHT BE, BUT I DOUBT IT. >>KEVIN AMBLER: I THOUGHT THE LANGUAGE THAT THIS BOARD HAD TALKED ABOUT WAS THE MASTER'S DEGREE OR THE EQUIVALENT. IF YOU HAVE 20 YEARS AS A COUNTY MANAGER ELSEWHERE IN NEW YORK, THAT MIGHT HAVE GIVEN YOU THE ON-THE-JOB TRAINING -- >>DAN KLEMAN: I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE LANGUAGE YOU HAVE IN THE CHARTER TODAY WORKS. MY POINT WOULD SIMPLY BE IF YOU PROPOSE CHANGING IT AND PLACING SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT YOU STRENGTHEN THE REQUIREMENTS, NOT WEAKEN THEM. I THINK THE LANGUAGE THAT EXISTS TODAY IS RELATIVELY STRONG, AND IT'S ONLY IF YOU CONSIDER CHANGING IT THAT I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU INCLUDE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES THAT I'VE RAISED. >>GERALD WHITE: MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: MR. KLEMAN, I'M LOOKING AT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, EMMY ACTON'S OPINION, ON THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S 8 QUALIFICATIONS WRITTEN JANUARY 8th, 1991, AND THERE IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE QUALIFICATIONS OF FORMER COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR KARL. AND MY CONCERN IS, IS THERE GOING TO BE A CONTINUOUS NEED IF SOMEONE COMES WITH OTHER QUALIFICATIONS TO HAVE TO SEEK A LEGAL OPINION ON WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON IS QUALIFIED? IS THERE SOMETHING -- IS THERE SOME LANGUAGE THAT CAN BE PLACED IN THE CHARTER TO PREVENT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO HAVE TO ISSUE A LEGAL OPINION ABOUT WHETHER SOMEBODY IS QUALIFIED OR NOT? >>DAN KLEMAN: I SUSPECT ANYTIME YOU ALLOW A SUBSTITUTION, THAT THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME JUDGMENT TO BE EXERCISED. I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT ALLOWING THE SUBSTITUTION IS REASONABLE. IT MAY WELL BE BECAUSE I WOULD TELL YOU I DON'T KNOW OF ANOTHER SITUATION OTHER THAN THE ONE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WHEN FRED KARL WAS HIRED THAT THERE, IN FACT, WAS THE NEED FOR A LEGAL OPINION TO DETERMINE WHETHER SOMEBODY MET THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR A CHARTER REQUIREMENT TO BE THE CITY MANAGER AND COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. IT IS PERHAPS A ONE-TIME EVENT THAT I'M NOT CERTAIN YOU ARE GOING TO FIND REPEATED MUCH. >>GERALD WHITE: I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO SUBMIT TO THE BOARD THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE THAT YOU BELIEVE WILL MAKE THE POSITION MORE FIT FOR THE FUTURE. >>DAN KLEMAN: BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. >>JAN SMITH: MR. KLEMAN, YOU'VE -- EACH TIME YOU'VE SPOKEN 9 REGARDING THIS SUBJECT, YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE ETHICS OF THE COUNTY MANAGERS ASSOCIATION. WHAT OTHER ISSUES ARE RAISED IN THAT ORGANIZATION THAT YOU BELIEVE HAVE GREAT IMPORT TO SOMEONE BEING A MEMBER OF OF THAT AND ABOUT A COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR? >>DAN KLEMAN: IN TERMS OF THE QUALIFICATION DISCUSSION, IT IS REALLY ONLY THE QUESTION OF THE COMMITMENT TO THE CODE OF ETHICS. I THINK I'VE ALREADY SPOKEN TO THE BOARD EARLY ON, WHAT SEEMS LIKE A LONG TIME AGO, PERHAPS FOR ALL OF US, ABOUT THOSE ISSUES THAT WOULD ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE TO RECEIVE THE DESIGNATION BY THIS SAME PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT IT, IN FACT, HAS A POSITION OF GENERAL MANAGEMENT THAT WOULD -- WOULD CAUSE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO BE DETERMINED TO BE A COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR OR COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. AND THERE'S A FORM OF CRITERIA THAT IS SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD EARLIER THAT THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF BEING APPOINTED BY THE ENTIRE BOARD OR DISMISSED BY THE ENTIRE BOARD, RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THE APPOINTMENT OF MOST APARTMENT HEADS, RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THE PREPARATION AND SUBMISSION OF THE BUDGET TO THE BOARD OF ELECTED OFFICIALS. A SERIES OF CRITERIA LIKE THAT ARE JUDGED -- ARE LOOKED AT TO JUDGE WHETHER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS A FORM OF GOVERNMENT THAT WOULD BE DESCRIBED AS A COUNCIL MANAGER OR COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. 10 AND AS I SAID TO THE BOARD EARLIER, I BELIEVE THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS THAT SET OF CRITERIA AND THAT DESIGNATION THAT WILL ALLOW THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO ATTRACT THE BEST CANDIDATES IN THE COUNTRY. OR THE BEST CANDIDATES IN THE COMMUNITY, WHEREVER THEY MIGHT BE. BUT IT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE THE POSITION APPEALING TO THOSE WHO ARE THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, MR. KLEMAN, WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING AGAIN THIS EVENING AFTER A LONG DAY. >>DAN KLEMAN: THANK YOU. I REGRET I CAN'T STAY TO ENJOY YOUR ENTIRE MEETING -- [ LAUGHTER ] I'LL TRY TO FOLLOW YOUR WORK FROM AFAR. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: WE'LL BE SURE TO SEND YOU A TAPE. [ LAUGHTER ] >>DAVID HURLEY: CHANNEL 22 WHEN YOU GET HOME. >>JAN SMITH: CHRISTMAS EVE LISTENING. MR. HUGHES. >> WE HAD BETTER NOT CHANGE THE QUALIFICATIONS OF APPOINTED COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR OR WE MIGHT GET ONE WHO SERVED PINELLAS COUNTY IN OVER 20 YEARS AND THE BEST COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS IN THE HISTORY OF FLORIDA. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. FORMER COMMISSIONER ED TURANCHIK MADE CERTAIN COMMENTS AT YOUR 11 NOVEMBER 0th MEETING THAT MERIT RESPONSE. MR. TURANCHIK IS A FRIEND OF MINE AND A VERY ARTICULATE AND PERSUASIVE GENTLEMAN. HE'S ALSO A DREAMER WHICH IS VERY COMMENDABLE,, BUT DREAMERS DON'T CONCERN THEMSELVES WITH THE FACTS OF THE PAST OR OF THE PRESENT FOR THAT MATTER. HE TOLD YOU AFTER BEING ELECTED TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN '92 AND SERVING FOR NINE MONTHS, HE CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS THE FORM THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ANYTHING DONE. HE SERVED THAT FOUR-YEAR TERM AND WAS SUCCESSFUL IN HIS RE-ELECTION. MR. TURANCHIK TOLD US DURING HIS FIRST TERM THAT WE CAN CONSTRUCT A LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM FOR $250 MILLION. WE NOW KNOW THE COST WOULD BE FOUR TIMES THAT AMOUNT OR $1 BILLION. HE TOLD US EARLY ON THAT THE OLYMPICS WOULD NOT COST THE TAXPAYERS A DIME. WE NOW KNOW THAT IT WOULD COST HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. HE STATED THAT DADE, DUVAL AND ORANGE COUNTY ALL HAVE AN ELECTED COUNTY LEADER AND THEY ARE ALL MOVING FORWARD; HOWEVER, HE CITES NO EXAMPLES, BECAUSE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DUVAL, THERE ARE NO FACTS TO BACK UP THAT STATEMENT. PINELLAS, PASCO, MANATEE, SARASOTA, LEE, COLLIER, AND PALM BEACH COUNTIES DO NOT HAVE AN ELECTED COUNTY LEADERS. ARE THESE CAN'T-GET-ANYTHING-DONE COUNTIES? 12 YOU WILL RECALL THAT FRED MARQUIS, THE APPOINTED COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR CAME BEFORE THIS BOARD SEVERAL MEETINGS AGO. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR MR. MARQUIS'S RESPONSE TO MR. TURANCHIK'S COMMENTS? LET ME GO BACK TO THE OLYMPICS 2012 EFFORT. THIS ENTIRE EFFORT WOULD HAVE DIED AN EARLY DEATH IF THE B.O.C.C. WOULD NOT HAVE FUNDED THE INITIAL APPLICATION FEE AT THE URGING OF MR. TURANCHIK. APPARENTLY MR. TURANCHIK IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGED THIS BY THE CAN'T-GET-ANYTHING-DONE BOCC. LET ME CITE A FEW EXAMPLES OF WHAT THE CAN'T GET ANYTHING DONE BOCC OF OUR CURRENT GOVERNMENT HAS ACCOMPLISHED THAT NO OTHER COUNTY IN OUR STATE OR THE ENTIRE NATION FOR THAT MATTER HAS ACCOMPLISHED. ONE, THERE ARE 3150 COUNTIES IN THE UNITED STATES. WE ARE THE ONLY COUNTY IN OUR NATION WITH AN INDIGENT HEALTH CARE PLAN FUNDED ENTIRELY BY LOCAL SALES TAX. THIS WAS THE BRAINCHILD OF FORMER APPOINTED COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FRED KARL AND FORMER COUNTY COMMISSIONER PHYLLIS BUSANSKY. TWO, OUR COUNTY HAS A TWO-YEAR BUDGET SYSTEM, INSTEAD OF A ONE-YEAR BUDGET SYSTEM. THIS ASSISTS US GREATLY IN PLANNING AND SAVES THE TAXPAYERS A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME AND MONEY. OTHER COUNTIES THROUGHOUT THE NATION HAVE VISITED OUR COUNTY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS TWO-YEAR BUDGET SYSTEM. THIS WAS THE BRAINCHILD OF COMMISSIONER JIM NORMAN. 13 THREE, OUR COUNTY LED THE WAY TO CREATE A TAMPA BAY WATER, A REGIONAL WATER DISTRICT WHEREIN THE CITIES OF TAMPA, ST. PETERSBURG, AND THE COUNTIES OF PINELLAS, PASCO AND HILLSBOROUGH HAVE POOLED THEIR WATER ASSETS AND NOW OPERATE UNDER ONE UMBRELLA. TAMPA BAY WATER HAS ACTED TO CONSTRUCT ONE OR MORE DESAL PLANTS AND A RESERVOIR TO STORE WATER DURING THE RAINY SEASON FOR DISTRIBUTION DURING THE DRY PERIODS. TAMPA BAY WATER WAS THE BRAINCHILD OF ED TURANCHIK. THE BOCC LED AN EFFORT TO CHANGE THE METHOD OF COLLECTING GAS TAXES. FROM COLLECTING FROM RETAIL OUTLETS TO COLLECTING FROM WHOLESALERS. AN ADDITIONAL $2 MILLION OF GAS TAXES COLLECTED PER YEAR IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ALONE. IT ALSO LOWERED THE COST OF COLLECTIONS. THIS, AGAIN, WAS THE BRAINCHILD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONER JIM NORMAN. LET ME QUICKLY CITE A FEW MORE EXAMPLES HOW OUR COUNTIES AND THE CITIES THEREIN ARE MOVING FORWARD. WE ARE THE FIRST IN FLORIDA IN EFFECTIVE BUYING INCOME, IN TOTAL RETAIL SALES, IN TRANSPORTATION, IN JOB GROWTH, IN RECREATION WHERE WE ARE 8th IN THE NATION. THE SOURCE OF THAT IS "PLACES RATED ALMANAC, 2000." WE RANKED 5th AMONG THE TOP 20 CITIES FOR HIGH-TECH JOBS. SOURCE, "CORTEX," 1999. FIRST IN FLORIDA IN TOP-CHOICE CITIES. 14 SOURCE, "OUTLOOK MAGAZINE," 1999. WE RANKED 10th IN THE U.S. PROJECTED JOB GAINS, 1998 TO 2025. SOURCE, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE. 35th PLACE TO LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES. SOURCE "FORBES." SO MUCH FOR MR. TURANCHIK'S COMMENTS THAT OURS IS A CAN'T DO KIND OF GOVERNMENT. I THINK WE HAVE DONE VERY WELL. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU, MR. HUGHES. MR. MIKE CARDUCCI. >> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIRMAN AND CHARTER GROUP. IT'S A PLEASURE TO HEAR MR. RALPH HUGHES EXPRESS THE THOUGHTS THAT I SHARE EQUALLY WITH HIM. I EARLY IN THE GAME SPOKE TO THIS GROUP AND SAID THAT IT IS NOT THE STRUCTURE THAT IS SUCCESSFUL, IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT RUN THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT. OUR GOVERNMENT COULD BE THE WORSE STRUCTURE IN THE STATE, AND IT IS NOT, BUT IT PERFORMS THE DUTIES THAT WE WISH IT TO DO VERY SUCCESSFULLY. WHEN OUR COMMISSIONERS ARGUE AMONGST THEMSELVES AND PEOPLE SAY THAT THAT'S WRONG. I MUCH PREFER THAT TO A TIME WE HAD BEFORE WHEN MR. HUGHES WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN THINGS SEEMED SO PLACID AND SMOOTH, AND REALLY ACCOMPLISHED A LOT BY NOT DOING ANYTHING. I DIDN'T REALLY COME TO TALK ABOUT THAT, HOWEVER. IN TERMS OF DISCUSSING WHAT WE ARE AGAINST AND FOR, I THOUGHT THIS BEING THE LAST MEETING THAT I'LL ATTEND, I SHOULD PRESENT 15 WHO F.A.I.R. REPRESENTATION IS, WHAT WE STAND FOR, AND PRESENT THIS -- AND READ IT TO YOU QUICKLY AND GIVE YOU THE FULL FORMAT FOR YOUR BOOKLET TO READ. F.A.I.R. REPRESENTATION -- ONLY MISSION IS FAIR AND EQUAL REPRESENTATION FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. WITH EQUAL REPRESENTATIVES -- REPRESENTATION FOR THE THREE CITIES IN THE COUNTY. REGARDLESS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD'S ALTERNATIVES APPROVED, WE BELIEVE THAT REPRESENTATION MUST BE BASED ON THE POPULATION. ALL MINORITIES, INCLUDING RACE, GENDER AND GEOGRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION IS IMPORTANT FOR FAIR DECISIONS TO BENEFIT EACH COMMUNITY WHICH IMPROVES THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. WHEN THE UNINCORPORATED AREA HAS 64% OF THE POPULATION WITH LESS THAN 20% OF THE VOTING DECISIONS, ANY NEW STRUCTURE MUST CORRECT THIS OBVIOUS INEQUITY. THE UNFAIRNESS OF UNWANTED DECISIONS MADE BY OFFICIALS WHO LIVE ELSEWHERE AS A RESULT OF THAT INEQUALITY. THE ARTICLES PRINTED IN EACH OF THE NEWSPAPERS SPELL OUT THESE INJUSTICES, SHOWING LOCAL PEOPLE LOSING THE COMPLAINT. A LOCAL STATE REPRESENTATIVE SAID, WE BETTER UNITE OR THEY WILL PICK US OFF ONE BY ONE. AN EDITORIAL IN A LOCAL NEWSPAPER SAID, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO PUT UP WITH HAPHAZARD GROWTH. THE COUNTY WILL NOT DO IT UNLESS THE RESIDENTS DEMAND IT. 16 AND WE, IN FAIR, ARE KIND OF ASKING FOR THAT. AND I WILL SUBMIT THIS FOR THE RECORD. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO TELL YOU ALTHOUGH I DON'T STAY FOR THE WHOLE MEETING AND HOW YOU EVER ALL DO AND HAVE TO, I REALLY SYMPATHIZE, BUT I DO GO HOME AND WATCH IT ON TELEVISION. AND LAST MEETING I WATCHED A VERY ASTUTE CONVERSATION REGARDING AN ALTERNATIVE OF SIX SINGLE DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS WITH ONE COMMISSIONER AT-LARGE OR WHATEVER THAT WAS TO BE. AND I ONLY ASK THAT YOU DON'T LOCK THAT SIX SINGLE DISTRICTS INTO HAVING A MAYOR-TYPE OF A COMMISSIONER, BUT ONE OF A FACILITATOR, AND THAT ALMOST GIVES US WHAT WE WERE ASKING FOR, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE CONCEPT OF SINGLE DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS WAS THE DRIVING FORCE OF THAT ALTERNATIVE. IF YOU MADE THE ALTERNATIVE OF THE PRESENT PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE OF FOUR SINGLE DISTRICTS AND THREE AT-LARGE, WITH OR WITHOUT AN INDIVIDUAL WHO SITS AT THE HEAD AS A CHAIR, AS A FACILITATOR OR A MAYOR, WHICHEVER YOU CHOOSE, WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ASK YOU THAT YOU DO THE SAME WITH THE SINGLE DISTRICT ALTERNATIVE SO THAT THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE THE SIZE OF THE DISTRICTS AND ALSO HOW IT IS LED EITHER BY A FACILITATOR OR A MAYOR. I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT YOU, MS. SMITH, AS A FACILITATOR TYPE CHAIR. YOU DID QUITE WELL. DESPITE OF THE PEOPLE THAT COME HERE AND TELL YOU ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO, I THINK YOU ARE FACING THE PROBLEM OF THE THINGS THAT ARE WRONG. 17 AND THERE AREN'T A WHOLE LOT WRONG. AND JUST AS WE KNOW, THEY ARE ALL CONTROVERSIAL. CERTAINLY I AM NOT UP HERE TELLING YOU I KNOW ANSWERS, ONLY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU OUR OPINION THAT WHATEVER YOU DO, PLEASE MAKE IT FAIR FOR THE GEOGRAPHICAL PEOPLE, THE RACE AND GENDER BASED ON POPULATION, AND I THINK WHATEVER THE CONCLUSIONS ARE, I'M SURE YOU WILL DO VERY WELL. AGAIN I WISH YOU WELL FOR THE HOLIDAYS. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND COMMENTS AND FOR BEING HERE ALL THESE MEETINGS. I HOPE YOU WILL BE STAYING BECAUSE OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS JIM HOSLER FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION WHO IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT DISTRICTING, REDISTRICTING, POPULATION, DISAGGREGATION. MR. HOSLER, WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING THIS EVENING. WE APPRECIATE YOU GIVING UP YOUR FREE TIME TO BE HERE AND HELP US OUT. >>JIM HOSLER: IT'S ALL COUNTY TIME, COMMISSIONER -- I CAN CALL YOU COMMISSIONER, STILL. JIM HOSLER, PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF. I'VE GOT A LITTLE BRIEF HANDOUT HERE. I'VE READ THE LETTER THAT THE -- THAT YOUR CHAIR SENT TO MR. HUNTER, AND I'VE GOT ABOUT A TWO TO THREE TO FOUR-MINUTE PRESENTATION THAT I THINK WILL ANSWER MOST OF THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE IN THAT LETTER. I CAN'T ANSWER SOME OF THOSE FOR YOU, LIKE WHAT'S THE OPT NUMB NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT. I DON'T KNOW. 18 THERE IS NO OPTIMUM NUMBER. THERE ARE SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS I CAN'T ANSWER. I'M JUST GOING TO GIVE YOU THE BASIC NUMBERS. AND WE CAN TAKE IT FROM THERE. LET ME PUT AS A STARTING POINT THE MAP THAT'S ON YOUR SIDE WALL HERE. PUT THAT FIRST ONE UP. THIS MAP IS ALSO ON YOUR SIDE WALL, BUT THIS KIND OF GIVES YOU A CLOSER LOOK AT IT. THESE ARE YOUR CURRENT FOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. DISTRICTS ONE THROUGH FOUR. YOU CAN SEE ALSO WITHIN THERE, THERE ARE LITTLE NUMBERS. THESE ARE THE PRECINCTS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEW CENSUS, THESE PRECINCT LINES ARE GOING TO BE DRAWN. THAT'S ANOTHER REASON THE BOARD WILL NEED TO REDISTRICT. THAT'S CURRENTLY HOW YOU ARE SET UP AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT MORE IN JUST A FEW SECONDS. OKAY. LET'S FIRST TALK ABOUT THIS. THE WAY I KIND OF DECIDED TO DO IT IS YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ONGOING -- WHAT MAY BE HAPPENING WITH REDISTRICTING. LET ME ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT. CAN YOU ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT FOR ME? OUT. 19 JUST A LITTLE BIT. OUT THE OTHER WAY. THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S GOOD. WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS PROBABLY THE DATA THAT'S GOING TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE REDISTRICTING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE IN MARCH OF 2001. NOW, YOU MAY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS TODAY ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CENSUS DATA AND THAT KIND OF THING. I CAN TELL YOU NOW WITH THE CHANGE IN ADMINISTRATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY IN WASHINGTON, THAT A LOT OF THE DECISIONS AND RUMORS WE HAVE HEARD OF WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE CENSUS IS PROBABLY GOING TO CHANGE. ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE MAKING RUMORS AND DECISIONS ARE NOW OUT OF A JOB. INTERESTING TO SEE WHO COMES IN AND REPLACES AND WHAT THE PERSPECTIVE IS. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN MARCH WHEN THAT DATA IS RELEASED. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER IT IS GOING TO BE SAMPLE DATA, COMPLETE COUNT DATA, OR WHATEVER. THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE INFORMATION. AND I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE IT ALL FANCY. I JUST WANTED TO TRY TO JUST GET THE DATA ON THE -- THE DATA SO YOU CAN SEE IT. THERE, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER. AND THIS IS -- BACK IN 1990, THIS DATA HERE IN THE FIRST 20 COLUMN, THE SOURCE OF THIS IS THE -- IT WAS RELEASED IN JUNE OF '91 FROM THE FOLKS THAT DID THE REDISTRICTING. THAT'S DISTRICT 1 THROUGH 4. THE NUMBERS THAT ARE IN THE DISTRICTS IN 1990. THE TOTAL COUNTY POPULATION WAS 834,05. I WANT TO POINT OUT IF EACH DISTRICT HAD A EQUAL SHARE OF POPULATION. 208,514 FOLKS IN EACH DISTRICT. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT DISTRICT 4 ON YOUR MAP IS THE LARGEST DISTRICT GEOGRAPHICALLY, AND ALSO THE LARGEST DISTRICT FROM A REPRESENTATION POINT OF VIEW. BACK WHEN THE DECISIONS WERE MADE IN 1991, THAT DISTRICT WAS MADE LARGER, ABOUT 4.5% LARGER THAN THE MEAN FOR THE DISTRICTS, WHICH IS KIND OF ON THE EDGE OF WHAT YOU LOOK AT WHEN YOU TRY TO GET A REDISTRICTING. YOU WANT THE DISTRICTS TO BE AS EQUAL IN POPULATION AS POSSIBLE. 5% IS KIND OF AT THE EDGE OF THAT. WE REALLY LOOK TO BE CLOSER TO 2% OR 3%. BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT'S A LARGE AREA. IT ALSO IS GEOGRAPHICALLY AND POPULATION WISE. I WANT TO POINT ALSO THAT THAT 217,965 DOES NOT INCLUDE A LOT OF THE TEMPORARY FARMWORKERS THAT ARE IN SOUTH HILLSBOROUGH. IT DOESN'T INCLUDE A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS DOWN THERE IN THE TRAILERS IN HAWAIIAN ISLES IN SOUTH RUSKIN AND OTHER PLACES. THAT NUMBER IS PROBABLY LARGER THAN THAT. IF WE TAKE THE SAME GEOGRAPHIC BOUNDARIES WHERE WE SEE THE 21 COLUMN THAT SAYS POP ESTIMATES 2000. PUT WHAT IS ON THE GROUND INTO THOSE DISTRICTS, YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE CURRENTLY LIVING IN THOSE DISTRICTS. I'M ASSUMING -- THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID A 2000 ESTIMATE OF POPULATION THAT COMPARED TO WHAT CAME OUT IN THE CENSUS, OUR NUMBER WAS 1,001,910. IF THAT WAS DIVIDED EQUALLY OF THE TWO DISTRICTS, ABOUT 250,500 PEOPLE IN EACH DISTRICT. WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE 1990 IN THIS FAR RIGHT-HAND COLUMN, DISTRICT 1 WHICH IS IN THE LOWER SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE COUNTY, ADDED ABOUT 21,700 PEOPLE, WHICH IS LESS THAN WHAT WAS ADDED ON AVERAGE. DISTRICT 2, WHICH IS NORTHWEST HILLSBOROUGH, ADDED MUCH MORE THAN AVERAGE. ABOUT 64,000, 65,000 PEOPLE. DISTRICT 3, IN EFFECT, REALLY DIDN'T ADD ANYBODY. 2700 PEOPLE, THAT CAN BE JUST ERROR IN THE ESTIMATE. SO IN A SENSE, DISTRICT 3 WAS STABLE. DISTRICT 4 WHICH, AGAIN, IS YOUR LARGEST DISTRICT IN 1990 IS STILL YOUR LARGER DISTRICT, 297,000 PEOPLE WE ESTIMATE ARE IN DISTRICT 4 RIGHT NOW COMPARED TO THE SMALLEST DISTRICT WHICH IS DISTRICT 3, ABOUT 208,000 PEOPLE. SO WHAT THIS MEANS FROM A REDISTRICTING PERSPECTIVE. IF -- THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY CHANGES MADE BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN REDISTRICTING STARTS IN MARCH, WHICH THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE. WHAT THIS MEANS IS DISTRICT NUMBER 3 IN GEOGRAPHIC SIZE IN 22 ORDER TO GET 250,000 PEOPLE SIMPLY WILL HAVE TO GET A LOT BIGGER, AS IS DISTRICT 1. NOT AS MUCH BIGGER AS DISTRICT 3 IS, BUT IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET MUCH BIGGER. YOU CAN SEE THAT DISTRICT 3 WILL START CREEPING OVER IN WHAT DISTRICT 4 SPACE IS. DISTRICT 1 WILL START CREEPING UP INTO DISTRICT 2. THAT'S KIND OF WHERE IT STANDS WITH THE ONGOING REDISTRICTING THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN MARCH OF 1991. NOW A LITTLE LOOK AT THE FUTURE -- I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE MAP. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS, WHERE IS THE GROWTH GOING TO BE IN THE FUTURE? AND I THINK IT IS KIND OF GOING TO BE PRETTY MUCH WHERE IT HAS BEEN FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS MAP AND GROWTH POCKETS IN THE FUTURE, IT IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. >>JAN SMITH: MR. HOSLER -- JUST A MOMENT, MR. WILKES AND MR. BELTRAN, IF YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO COME BEHIND HERE SO YOU CAN ALL SEE THE MAP. >>JIM HOSLER: YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO AND LOOK AT IT. >>JAN SMITH: IT'S COLORFUL. >>JIM HOSLER: WHAT THIS IS, THIS IS A CENSUS TRACT MAP, 1990 CENSUS TRACTS THAT SHOW POPULATION CHANGE DENSITY BETWEEN 1990 AND 2000. THE DARKEST CENSUS TRACTS LIKE IN HERE HAVE THE BIGGEST LARGEST DENSITY CHANGE OR INCREASE. 23 THE LIGHTEST COLOR ONES, SOME OF THEM HAD POPULATION DECLINES. THIS, IN EFFECT, SHOWS YOU WHAT THE NUMBERED DATA THAT I SHOWED YOU JUST A FEW SECONDS AGO ON THE ELMO, MOST OF THE GROWTH IN THE NORTH NORTHWEST AREA, THE NEW TAMPA AREA AND TO THE EAST. IF YOU LOOK TO THE FUTURE OF WHAT THIS MAY CHANGE OR LOOK LIKE BETWEEN 2000 AND 20010, A LITTLE BIT OF A ROTATION TO THE SOUTHEAST. BECAUSE GROWTH IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IS PRETTY MUCH GONE WHERE THE PRODUCT IS. THE HOUSING PRODUCT IS. THE HOUSING PRODUCT IN NORTHWEST HILLSBOROUGH, THE LOTS ARE STARTING TO DRY UP. THERE ISN'T MUCH DEVELOPER LAND -- >>JAN SMITH: SO ARE THE LAKES. >>JIM HOSLER: THE LAKES AND EVERYTHING ELSE. IF YOU LOOK AT SOUTH HILLSBOROUGH, THAT'S WHERE THE PRODUCTS ARE GOING TO BE AS FAR AS SINGLE-FAMILY LOTS IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS. IF WE ASSUME THAT THE SAME LEVEL OF DEMAND THAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS FOLLOW THAT PRODUCT, THAT'S WHERE THAT GROWTH IS GOING TO GO. THAT KIND OF ANSWERS THE QUESTION OF WHERE IT IS GOING TO GO IN THE FUTURE. ONE MORE OVERHEAD FOR YOU AND THEN WE CAN HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. NOW, THE ONLY REASON THESE OPTIONS ARE ON THIS SHEET IS BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE LETTER THAT WE GOT FROM THE CHAIR. 24 AND IT SHOWS YOU VARIOUS OPTIONS AND HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD HYPOTHETICALLY BE IN EACH DISTRICT AT FUTURE TIME. IN 1990, FOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS AND 208,500 IN THAT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT. IN 2000, ABOUT 250,000 PEOPLE IN THAT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT. AN INCREASE OF ABOUT 42%. MAKE SURE I GOT THAT NUMBER RIGHT. 42,000. , AN INCREASE OF 20%. IN 2010, IF WE ASSUME THE PROJECTIONS PRODUCED BY THE BUREAU OF ECONOMIC AND BUSINESS RESEARCH IS NOT GOING TO BE RAISED ANY, AND I THINK THEY MIGHT BE AFTER THE CENSUS RESULTS COME OUT, 1,124,000 PEOPLE IS THE PROJECTION IN 2010, DIVIDE THAT BY FOUR, AND HAVE 281,000 PEOPLE IN IT. GOING DOWN THE PAGE A LITTLE BIT, IF WE HAVE FIVE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS IN THE YEAR 2000 RIGHT NOW, AND WE WERE DOING REDISTRICTING, ABOUT 200,000 PEOPLE IN EACH DISTRICT, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT SIMILAR TO WHAT THE NUMBER WAS IN 1990 WHEN THE REDISTRICTING WAS DONE. I'M JUST POINTING OUT THAT THE NUMBERS WERE CLOSE. NO VALUE JUDGMENT. IF THERE WAS FIVE DISTRICTS IN 2010, IT WOULD BE ABOUT 225,000 FOLKS IN THOSE DISTRICTS -- 224,800. AND, AGAIN, THE OPTIONS THAT YOU HAD ON THIS SHEET FROM THE LETTER FROM THE CHAIRMAN, IF THERE WERE SIX DISTRICTS IN 19 -- IN 2000, ABOUT 167,000 PEOPLE IN EACH DISTRICT. AND IN 2010, ABOUT 187,300. 25 THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMMARIZES THE DATA I WANT TO PRESENT TO YOU. I WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. >>JAN SMITH: MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: THE DATA YOU HAVE HERE IS VERY INTERESTING. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTICE IF WE STAY WITH FOUR DISTRICTS, BY 2010, EACH DISTRICT WILL BE ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE CITY OF TAMPA RIGHT NOW. >>JIM HOSLER: ABOUT 270,000 PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA. SO IT'S REAL CLOSE. >>DAVID HURLEY: THE OTHER THING I'M QUESTIONING IF YOU DID THE SIX DISTRICTS AND I KNOW YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT DIVISION RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW YOU WOULD -- WHERE WOULD YOU START? >>JIM HOSLER: THAT'S A REAL INTERESTING QUESTION. IN THE PAST, TRADITIONALLY, THE WAY IT HAS BEEN STARTED IN TAMPA, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN SEVERAL TAMPA CITY COUNCIL REDISTRICTING AND THE SCHOOL BOARD REDISTRICTING. ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU LOOK AT AFTER YOU LOOK AT EQUAL SIZE BETWEEN THE FOUR DISTRICTS IS WHERE YOU CONCUR ABOUT A DISTRICT WHERE THE MINORITY REPRESENTATIONS IN THE AREA WILL HAVE A CHANCE OF ELECTING A MINORITY REPRESENTATIVE. AND SO WHAT YOU START WITH TRADITIONALLY IS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN DISTRICT. AND THAT DISTRICT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN DISTRICT 3 WITHIN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' DISTRICT -- DISTRICTS. YOU WOULD -- TRADITIONALLY IN THE PAST, START WITH THAT DISTRICT. 26 TRY TO GET THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN YOU CAN, BASED UPON, AGAIN, BALANCING UPON THE EQUAL SIZE, AND YOU TALK IT FROM THERE AND EVERYTHING ELSE KIND OF FALLS OUT FROM THAT DISTRICT AND THAT'S BASED UPON DECISIONS WE'VE GOTTEN IN THE PAST FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. NOW YOU WILL HAVE A NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL IN 2000, JANUARY OF 2000. WE'RE ASSUMING THAT'S ALL GOING TO BE THE SAME, BUT WHO KNOWS. >>DAVID HURLEY: SOME OF THE SAME FEDERAL JUDGES THOUGH. >>JIM HOSLER: YES, SIR. >>JAN SMITH: MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: MR. HOSLER, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING ALL THIS INFORMATION TOGETHER I SUSPECT ON A SHORT TIME FRAME. LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. IT SEEMS THAT IN MAKING THE DISTRICTS, THE FOUR DISTRICTS AS THEY EXIST TODAY, THAT OTHER THAN THE MINORITY CONSIDERATION, IT'S SOLELY BASED ON NUMBERS, TRYING TO KEEP THEM AS EVEN. YOU DON'T LOOK AT, FOR INSTANCE, -- OR DO YOU. FOR INSTANCE, WOULD WE EVER HAVE -- WOULD THERE EVER BE AN OPPORTUNITY, FOR INSTANCE, WHERE PLANT CITY WOULD BE SPLIT BETWEEN TWO DISTRICTS? >>JIM HOSLER: YOU TRY TO AVOID THAT TYPE OF THING. IF THERE WAS -- YOU USUALLY HAVE A SERIES OF OPTIONS, ANYWHERE FROM 2 TO 10 OPTIONS YOU LOOK AT. CERTAINLY SOMETHING YOU TRY TO AVOID. ALSO WITH TEMPLE TERRACE, YOU WON'T WANT TEMPLE TERRACE SPLIT. AND IT'S KIND OF ON THE BORDER. 27 THE CITY OF TAMPA IS SPLIT BASICALLY IN FOUR BY THE -- EXCUSE ME, IN THREE BY THE CURRENT ARRANGEMENT. THE CITY IS SPLIT. TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, NO, I COULDN'T FORESEE THERE IS ANY WAY TO SPLIT IT UNLESS THERE WAS A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF SINGLE DISTRICTS THAT PERHAPS HAD SOME TYPE OF NORTH RURAL DISTRICT AND A SOUTH RURAL DISTRICT OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. THAT'S -- >>STEVE LaBOUR: I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT SHOULD BE, BUT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THAT'S A CONSIDERATION THAT YOU DO USE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU TRY TO KEEP TEMPLE TERRACE WHOLE OR PLANT CITY WHOLE AS BEST YOU CAN. >>JIM HOSLER: AFTER EVERYTHING ELSE IS DONE, WE'LL ALSO LOOK AT NEIGHBORHOOD LINES. AFTER EVERYTHING ELSE IS DONE -- AND IF THERE'S A WAY TO KEEP A NEIGHBORHOOD INTACT WHILE KEEPING THOSE NUMBERS INTACT, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: GOOD, THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: BY NEIGHBORHOOD LINES, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS? >>JIM HOSLER: YES, SIR. BUT THAT'S WAY FAR DOWN THE LIST. THE MAJOR ROADS PRETTY MUCH DIVIDE MAJOR NEIGHBORHOODS AND WHERE PRECINCT LINES RUN. WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT VERY MUCH. 28 IF IT IS WAY DOWN THE LIST AND IT'S CLOSE, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT. >>JAN SMITH: MR. HOSLER, WILL BRANDON BE TREATED MORE LIKE THE CITY OF TAMPA THAN AS A COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD BASED ON ITS LOCATION AND POPULATION? IT IS WHAT -- IF IT WAS INCORPORATED, THE 10th LARGEST CITY IN THE STATE? HOW WOULD WE DEAL WITH IT? >>JIM HOSLER: IF WE INCORPORATED IT, IT WOULD BE LIKE THE CITY OF TAMPA. GEOGRAPHICALLY, IT WOULD BE TOUGH TO DIVIDE IT BECAUSE IT IS SO BIG AND SPREAD OUT. IT GOES SO MUCH FROM EAST TO WEST. YOU TRY TO KEEP IT INTACT, EVEN THOUGH IF YOU LOOK AT A MAP OF COMMUNITIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS, THERE IS AT LEAST HALF A DOZEN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES WITHIN BRANDON. SO IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THOSE LINES WOULD BE SPLIT. >>JAN SMITH: WHEN I SENT THE LETTER TO YOU, I WAS MOST INTERESTED IN THE 4-3 THAT WE HAVE NOW AND GOING TO SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, BUT IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I SHOULD HAVE ASKED YOU IS HOW WOULD YOU PROPOSE IF YOU WERE TO DO THIS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT IT, IF WE WERE TO TAKE OUR AT-LARGE SEATS NOW AND GIVE THEM GEOGRAPHIC RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS. HOW DO YOU SEE THE ENTIRE COUNTY BEING DIVISIBLE BY THREE? AND IF -- IF YOU DON'T HAVE A THOUGHT ON THAT, COULD YOU COME 29 BACK TO US WITH THAT. >>JIM HOSLER: SURE. I THINK YOU CAN KIND OF THINK ABOUT A DIVISION DOWN MAJOR ROADS. PERHAPS LOOKING AT STATE ROAD 60. PERHAPS LOOKING AT DALE MABRY. LET ME THINK ABOUT IT. LET ME THINK ABOUT THAT. >>JAN SMITH: THE ISSUE THAT THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD DISCUSSED WAS TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO HAVE THE GEOGRAPHIC RESIDENCY DONE IN SUCH A WAY THAT ALL OF THE AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS DID NOT, IN FACT, LIVE IN THE CITY AND HAVE US WITH A MAJORITY OF OUR BOARD LIVING WITHIN THE CITY. TO HAVE BETTER REPRESENTATION IN THE EX-URBAN AREAS. AND AS I TRIED TO FIGURE IT OUT, I FOUND EACH TIME I WAS PICKING UP A PORTION OF THE CITY. >>JIM HOSLER: YEAH. AND I DON'T KNOW. IT WOULD BE TOUGH TO GET AROUND THAT. WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT THE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS WOULD HAVE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS SO THERE WOULD BE, IN A SENSE, ANOTHER LAYER OVERLAYING THE -- WASN'T SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS BUT RESIDENCY DISTRICTS, THAT'S INTERESTING. >>JAN SMITH: IT WOULD BE VOTED BY EVERYONE. >>JIM HOSLER: TOUGH NOT TO SPLIT THE CITY OF TAMPA WITH THAT. BUT LET ME LOOK AT IT. >>JAN SMITH: DO YOU ALL HAVE -- MR. BALLARD. 30 >>TERRY BALLARD: ON THE GUIDELINES OF THE RULES OF REDISTRICTING, DO YOU HAVE A SET OF RULES THAT YOU FOLLOW OR WRITTEN RULES? >>JIM HOSLER: THERE ISN'T A BOOK OR A COOKBOOK ANYWHERE. WE RELY HIGHLY UPON THESE HIGHLY PAID ATTORNEYS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM TO MAKE SURE THEY KEPT UP WITH THE LATEST ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION AND ALL THE LEGAL AND COURT CASES THAT HAVE GONE ON. THIS IS BASED ON WHAT THE LAST COURT DECISION WAS. THE GENERAL GUIDELINE OF 2% TO 5% IS WRITTEN IN THE STATUTES IN SOME INSTANCES. I THINK IT IS IN THE STATUTE FOR THE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL DISTRICTS THAT WE DO, BUT THERE IS NO COOKBOOK. IT IS JUST BASED UPON WHAT YOUR ATTORNEYS TELL YOU AT THAT TIME YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. >>TERRY BALLARD: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: ONE LAST QUESTION. YOU SAID YOU START OFF WITH THE PREMISE OF HOW COULD YOU CREATE A DISTRICT THAT WOULD GIVE THE GREATEST POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITY FOR A MINORITY CANDIDATE TO BE ELECTED. IS THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN, HISPANIC? HOW -- FIRST OF ALL, HOW DO YOU DETERMINE THE MINORITY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? AND NUMBER TWO, DO YOU HAVE TO START OUT THAT WAY? AND WHAT -- AND WHAT CRITERIA DO YOU USE IN ESTABLISHING THAT? 31 >>JIM HOSLER: AS FAR AS WHAT THE MINORITIES ARE, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE CHARACTERISTICS OF YOUR AREA ARE. FOR EXAMPLE, DISTRICT 1 IS AN ATTEMPT NOW TO HAVE A HISPANIC DISTRICT FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SO IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR DEMOGRAPHIC CHARACTERISTICS ARE AND WHAT THE JUSTICE WOULD LOOK AT OF WHAT WOULD SEEM REASONABLE AND WHAT YOU COULD CARVE OUT. WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE PAST IN OTHER -- IN DISCUSSIONS WITH CITY OF TAMPA ATTORNEYS IS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE GOAL IS 60%, AND THE DISTRICT WOULD BE MINORITY, WHATEVER THAT MINORITY IS. CURRENTLY, WITHIN YOUR DISTRICT 3, THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' DISTRICT, NOT CURRENTLY BUT IN 1990, THAT PERCENTAGE WAS 35%. THAT'S THE HIGHEST THAT COULD BE OBTAINED. IF YOU THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED BETWEEN '90 AND NOW, THERE HAS BEEN DISPERSAL OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY OF THE TEARING DOWN OF PONCE De LEON COLLEGE HILL. A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS MOVED OUT TO USF AND PALM RIVER AND THOSE AREAS, AND THE DISPERSION OF FOLKS FROM CENTRAL CITIES, THAT POPULATION IS MUCH MORE DISPERSED NOW THAN IN 1990, I THINK, AND IT WOULD BE TOUGH TO COME UP WITH A PERCENTAGE THAT APPROACHES THAT 35% THAT WE HAD IN '90, ESPECIALLY WITH DISTRICT 3 INCREASING IN SIZE. DID I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? WAS THAT -- 32 >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. HOSLER? MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: JUST CONSIDERING THAT IF YOU DIDN'T GO IN TO MAKE A SOLID MINORITY DISTRICT, DO YOU THINK THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER CHANCE IF THEY WERE IN TWO DISTRICTS OF ELECTING TWO MINORITY COMMISSIONERS? BECAUSE IT'S SORT OF -- IT'S ALMOST LIKE GERRYMANDERING THEM A DISTRICT. HERE, THIS IS YOUR DISTRICT AND YOU CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER ONE. IT'S -- >>JIM HOSLER: THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE CRITICISMS THAT HAVE BEEN WEIGHED. >>DAVID HURLEY: IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM THAT STANDPOINT, IT IS ALMOST LIMITING THEM. A LIMITING ISSUE AT THAT POINT. I DON'T THINK THERE IS A GOOD ANSWER TO THAT. DO YOU HAVE -- ANY PLACE IT'S BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY? >>JIM HOSLER: THE ONLY PLACES I HAVE SEEN IT DONE DIFFERENTLY IS WHERE THEY HAD A LOT OF REPRESENTATIVES, NOT 5, 6, OR 7 BUT 20 AND 25. THAT'S THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT I'VE SEEN IS IF YOU JUST HAVE SO MANY REPRESENTATIVES, AND YOU CAN CARVE OUT A DISTRICT THAT'S SO SMALL THAT THE CHANCES OF SUCCESS FOR MINORITY REPRESENTATION IN THAT DISTRICT INCREASED TO WHERE IT JUST BECOMES A FACT. BUT THAT'S ALL -- TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I'VE JUST SEEN A LARGE NUMBER OF DISTRICTS. 33 >>JAN SMITH: MS. LASHER. >>DENISE LASHER: THANKS AGAIN FOR COMING THIS EVENING. >>JIM HOSLER: SURE. >>DENISE LASHER: RELATED TO DISTRICT 3, ONE THING THAT I'LL ENVISION WILL OCCUR IS THAT NORTHERN BOUNDARY WILL MOVE FURTHER NORTH IN DISTRICT 3, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE RESIDENTS THAT CAME -- THAT WERE AT PONCE De LEON AND SOME OF THE OTHER PUBLIC HOUSING PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED HAVE MOVED INTO THE USF AREA, AND THEY'VE HAD A TREMENDOUS POPULATION INCREASE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOUR CENSUS SHOWED, AND TYPICALLY, IN NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE THAT, THE RESPONSE TO CENSUS IS VERY LOW TOO. >>JIM HOSLER: YES, IT IS. >>DENISE LASHER: UNFORTUNATELY. AND IT'S VERY HARD TO GET AN ACCURATE NUMBER IN SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE, TYPICALLY, PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS DON'T RESPOND TO CENSUSES. . I KNOW THAT WAS ONE OF THE BATTLES THAT YOU FACED IN WORKING WITH THE GOVERNMENT WAS TO TRY TO RELATE TO THEM OUR RESPONSE WAS NOT INDICATIVE OF WHAT OUR TRUE POPULATION IS. I ENVISION THAT GOING NORTH. >>JIM HOSLER: I HAVE THE SAME FEEL, BUT THE NUMBER, WE'RE NOT TALKING TENS OF THOUSANDS. THOUSANDS OR MAYBE HUNDREDS OF HOUSEHOLDS. I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT WHOLE HOPE SIX DEMOLITION 34 WAS GOING ON AT THE VERY SAME TIME THE CENSUS WAS GOING ON. I'M REALLY ANXIOUS TO SEE WHAT THE RESULTS ARE FOR THOSE CENSUS TRACKS TO SEE IF THEY WENT ONE WEEK EARLIER THAT THEY CAUGHT SOME FOLKS AS OPPOSED TO GOING ONE WEEK LATER. >>DENISE LASHER: THOSE PRECINCTS UP THERE ARE NOT IN DISTRICT 3 RIGHT NOW. >> COULD GO FURTHER NORTH. IF YOU WERE ADDING A PRECINCT OUT THERE. >>DENISE LASHER: THAT WOULD BE AN AREA TO GROW DISTRICT 3. >>JIM HOSLER: YES, MA'AM. >>DENISE LASHER: I THINK YOU CAN PICK UP QUITE A FEW NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND WITH QUITE A FEW OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS BEING MINORITIES, AND WEST OF TEMPLE TERRACE ALSO. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS PART OF DISTRICT 3 RIGHT NOW EITHER. SO THERE'S THAT POTENTIAL. THE OTHER COMMENT I WANTED TO MAKE WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IF THERE WAS AS POTENTIAL FOR THE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT FOR THE THREE AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS. WHAT IS THE POPULATION OF THE CITY OF TAMPA? IS THAT -- IS IT ONE-THIRD OF OUR -- >>JIM HOSLER: 298 -- 300,000 OUT OF A MILLION. >>DENISE LASHER: LESS THAN A THIRD OF THE COUNTY'S POPULATION? >>JIM HOSLER: YES, MA'AM. >>DENISE LASHER: YOU COULD POTENTIALLY PUT THE CITY OF TAMPA IN ONE OF THOSE AREAS IF YOU DIVIDED THE COUNTY IN THIRDS. >>JIM HOSLER: CONCEIVABLY, YES, MA'AM. 35 >>DENISE LASHER: YOU COULD AND NOT DIVIDE UP THE CITY. AGAIN, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS YOU HAVE IS PRECINCT LINES, AND THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T HAVE STRAIGHT LINES, BECAUSE -- THE PRECINCTS ARE -- HAVE TO BE FACTORED IN THERE AND ALSO OTHER ELECTED DISTRICTS. >>JIM HOSLER: LIKE WHERE THE PERSON LIVES. IF THERE IS A CURRENT PERSON IN THAT SEAT THAT'S IN THAT AREA, YOU CAN'T REDISTRICT THEM OUT OF THEIR SEAT. >>DENISE LASHER: AND THE OVERLAP OF U.S. REPRESENTATIVES AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND STATE REPRESENTATIVES, ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE FACTORED IN WHEN YOU DRAW NEW DISTRICT LINES. NOT AN EASY TASK. ANYWAY, SOME OBSERVATIONS THAT WE'VE MADE THAT WE CAN POTENTIALLY PUT THE CITY OF TAMPA IN ONE OF THOSE AT-LARGE DISTRICTS. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: MR. HOSLER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH -- OH, I'M SORRY, MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: WOULD YOU SAY GIVEN THE POPULATION PROJECTIONS FOR 2010, WOULD YOU SAY, AS A GENERAL STATEMENT, THAT IF WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT TRYING TO PROTECT A MINORITY DISTRICT, THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO THEN INCREASE THE NUMBER OF SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS FROM FOUR TO SOME OTHER NUMBER? >>JIM HOSLER: IF YOU MEAN BY PROTECT, INCREASE THE PERCENTAGE OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN RESIDENTS IN THAT DISTRICT, THE ANSWER IS, YES. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THANK YOU. 36 >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU FOR COMING DOWN THIS EVENING. I'M WONDERING IF ANY OF THESE MAPS THAT YOU HAVE PUT UP CAN BE REDUCED FOR ANY -- IF THE BOARD MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE -- >>JIM HOSLER: IF YOU WANT SMALLER VERSIONS, JUST TELL YOUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND I'LL GET YOU COPIES. >>JAN SMITH: THAT REQUEST HAS BEEN MADE, SO WE -- AND IF YOU COULD GET BACK TO US ON THE ISSUE OF THREE. MR. WHITE, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION YOU WANTED TO ASK? >>GERALD WHITE: I'M JUST SO PLEASED WE HAVE SOMEONE HERE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO ANSWER THE BOARD'S QUESTION ABOUT POPULATION AND DISTRICT QUESTIONS AND I'VE MET WITH THEM SEVERAL TIMES. AND I'M PLEASED WITH THE WORK THAT THEY BROUGHT TO THIS BOARD. AND I WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK YOU FOR THE PREVIOUS WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE THAT I'VE SHARED WITH THIS BOARD. AND WE CAN -- IF YOU SEE FROM THE DATA, CHANGE IS OCCURRING IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. THANK YOU. >>JIM HOSLER: THANK YOU, SIR. >>DEE WILLIAMS: MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: MS. WILLIAMS. >>DEE WILLIAMS: ARE THESE THE KIND OF MAPS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT -- THE KIND OF MAPS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? >>JIM HOSLER: WE HAVE SOME 11 BY 17. YES, IF THAT'S PRODUCED BY THE COUNTY -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: WE DON'T HAVE THOSE. 37 >>JIM HOSLER: YEAH, WE -- SO YOU'VE GOT THE COUNTY COMMISSION DISTRICT MAPS. IF YOU WANTED THE POPULATION MAPS, I CAN GET YOU THOSE. >>JAN SMITH: I WAS MORE INTERESTED IN THE DENSITY CHANGE MAP. I THINK THAT WAS THE ONE THAT MAY BE -- >>DEE WILLIAMS: JUST A SUGGESTION. >>JAN SMITH: IT MIGHT BE -- THAT YOU'LL HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIGGER. >>JIM HOSLER: 11 BY 17 IS PROBABLY WHAT YOU WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT -- >>STEVE LaBOUR: MS. TUTTLE SAID SHE IS GLAD IT IS NOT BLUE AND RED, AND SHE APPRECIATES THAT. WE'VE SEEN SO MANY MAPS WITH BLUE AND RED TO LAST US A LIFETIME. >>JIM HOSLER: I GET IT. >>JAN SMITH: PLEASE THANK MR. HUNTER FOR LETTING YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP WITH US THIS PROJECT THAT YOU ARE ABOUT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE. HAVE A NICE HOLIDAY. MS. IORIO IS SUPPOSED TO HOPEFULLY BE HERE BY 7:00. SO I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO IS MOVE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT FORWARD. AND THEN GREET MS. IORIO WHEN SHE COMES IN. >>KENNETH TINKLER: GOOD EVENING, BOARD MEMBERS, KEN TINKLER, ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY. WE HAVE PASSED OUT THE PROPOSED DRAFT STRUCTURES THE BOARD HAD REQUESTED. 38 THIS INCLUDES THE 4-3 WITH GEOGRAPHIC REQUIREMENTS, THE 4-2-1 WITH THE CHAIR AND THE 6-1 PROPOSAL. I WANT TO MAKE YOU AWARE THESE ARE JUST DRAFTS, OUR FIRST SHOT AT IT, ANY COMMENTS THAT THE BOARD MAKES WILL THEN BE INCORPORATED INTO THE PROPOSALS. THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT THE BOARD REQUESTED THAT WE PASS OUT THE AUDITOR PROPOSAL. AND THAT WENT OUT IN YOUR PACKETS AND ASKED WHETHER OR NOT IF THIS AUDITOR REPORTS TO THE ENTIRE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND IT DOES. PAGE 2, SECTION 2 OF THE PROPOSAL, IT STATES THE COUNTY PERFORMANCE AUDITOR WILL BE RESPONSIBLE TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER THEM. >>JAN SMITH: MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: I HAD ONE QUESTION. IS THE -- THE TERM "BUDGET ANALYSIS", THAT'S THE WORK THAT WE HAD REQUESTED BE DONE RELATIVE TO THIS PROPOSAL. AM I CORRECT ON THAT? >>KENNETH TINKLER: AS FAR AS INCORPORATING THE PROPOSAL TO BE A BUDGET ANALYST? >>KENNETH TINKLER: I BELIEVE SO. >>GERALD WHITE: RELATED TO THIS PROPOSAL, ARE WE REQUIRED TO TAKE ANY MORE ACTION? >>JAN SMITH: NOT AT THIS TIME. IT DID ALREADY GO TO PUBLIC HEARING. THIS BOARD WILL HAVE ONE MORE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY 39 RECOMMENDATIONS, FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS AT THE MEETING IN FEBRUARY. THE FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY. YOU CAN -- DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS, IF ANYBODY CHOOSES TO COMMENT ON IT, AND THEY CERTAINLY MAY, AS LONG AS WE ADVERTISE THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE THAT THIS PUBLIC HEARING COVERS. BUT REMEMBER THAT WE DID HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON IT. THE FACT THAT WE TOOK IT TO PUBLIC HEARING AND HAVE IT IN DRAFT FORM DOES NOT MEAN THAT'S THE FINAL DECISION OF THIS BOARD. NOTHING IS FINAL UNTIL FEBRUARY 8th. MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I'M SORRY, MADAM CHAIRMAN, WE MIGHT HAVE GONE OVER THIS BEFORE. I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION WE DID PASS THIS WITH A MORE THAN 10 VOTES THAT WAS REQUIRED THAT THAT TECHNICALLY, IF WE DID NO OTHER WORK, WOULD APPEAR ON THE BALLOT AS DRAFTED. >>JAN SMITH: YES, YES, BUT WHAT I WAS JUST SAYING, IF THERE IS ANY CHANGE TO IT, IT HAS TO BE DONE BY THE FINAL MEETING ON FEBRUARY 8th. >>STEVE LaBOUR: THAT'S MY SECOND QUESTION PROCEDURALLY. LET'S -- TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. LET'S SAY THAT WE DO CHANGE THE NUMBER OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. WE'D HAVE TO CHANGE THIS PROPOSAL BECAUSE THIS WAS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION WE WERE GOING TO HAVE SEVEN. 40 LET'S SAY FOR SOME REASON WE DECIDED TO DO NINE. DON'T EVERYBODY GET EXCITED. I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT. PROCEDURALLY, HOW DOES THAT WORK? OR PERHAPS WE KEEP IT SEVEN, BUT WE GO TO AN ELECTED CHAIR AND WE DECIDED THAT REALLY THE AUDITOR NEEDS TO BE UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE CHAIR AND NOT THE ENTIRE COUNTY COMMISSION. PROCEDURALLY, WHAT DO WE DO, WHO CAN BRING THAT MOTION? WOULD IT BE PUBLICLY NOTICED AS SUCH, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. >>JAN SMITH: I BELIEVE IF THE CHANGE IS NOT A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO WHAT WAS ADVERTISED IN THE PUBLIC HEARING, YOU COULD CHANGE THAT. NOW, WHETHER MR. TINKLER OR MS. CAMPBELL WILL CONSIDER THAT AS SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE GO TO A PUBLIC HEARING. >>KENNETH TINKLER: MADAM CHAIR, ANY SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE PUBLIC HEARING AND REQUIRE TEN VOTES TO BE CHANGED AT THIS POINT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: WHAT I'M HEARING THEN, JUST GUESSING AND NOT TRYING TO READ THE ATTORNEY'S MIND, BUT IF WE WERE TO DECIDE IF THE AUDITOR SHOULD ONLY -- SHOULD BE DIRECTED BY THE CHAIRMAN AND NOT THE ENTIRE BOARD, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO ME. >>JAN SMITH: I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, AND WE COULD PUT THAT IN THE ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE HEARING FOR THE TWO JANUARY PUBLIC HEARINGS. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WANT TO MAKE MY FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS AWARE, 41 JUST SO THEY UNDERSTAND, THIS IS TECHNICALLY AS DRAFTED THE PROPOSAL THAT'S GOING TO GO BEFORE THE VOTERS. THERE IS NO OTHER PUBLIC HEARING. THIS IS WHAT'S GOING BEFORE THE VOTERS BY A -- WHATEVER THE VOTE WAS. SO IF WE WANT TO CHANGE ANY OF IT, AND CERTAINLY IF IT IS SUBSTANTIAL, WE'LL HAVE TO KNOW THAT BEFORE WE SET THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS TO HEAR EVERYTHING ELSE. >>JAN SMITH: WE PRETTY MUCH -- I'VE SET THE DATES ASIDE FOR THE PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE WILL PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE THAT FINALIZED. WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE A LOT OF THIS FINALIZED BY THE END OF OUR NEXT MEETING SO AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FIRST MEETING IN JANUARY, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING, IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE WANT TO CHANGE, WE'D BETTER BE PREPARED TO DO IT. BUT IF -- FOR INSTANCE, IF WE CHANGE TWO -- IF WE WERE TO GO TO AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN AND YOU WANT THIS PERSON, THEN WE BETTER KNOW THAT ON DECEMBER 28th SO THAT COULD BE WRITTEN AND PUT OUT AS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS FOR JANUARY. >>KENNETH TINKLER: OBVIOUSLY THE SOONER THE BOARD MAKES A DECISION, THE EASIER TO GO TO PUBLIC HEARING. >>GERALD WHITE: I'M GOING ON RECORD OPPOSING ANY CHANGE TO THIS. I'M SATISFIED THE WAY IT IS. IF THERE IS ANY INCLINATION TO CHANGE ANYTHING, PLEASE LET IT KNOWN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WE'VE GONE TO PUBLIC HEARING AND THE PUBLIC HAVE TOLD US WHAT 42 THEY WANT WITH REGARDS TO THIS. I'M OPPOSED TO THINKING CHANGE, AND I'M SATISFIED AND HOPE THAT IT SHOULD STAY THE WAY IT IS. >>JAN SMITH: BASED ON COMMENTS THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE BOARD HAVE MADE AND WHETHER OR NOT THE STRUCTURE HAS CHANGED, THAT IT MAY BECOME IMPERATIVE FOR US TO RECONSIDER THAT. TIME WILL TELL. MS. LASHER AND MS. TUTTLE AND MR. HURLEY. >>DENISE LASHER: I NEEDED SOME CLARIFICATION. DID WE NOT HAVE A MOTION THAT PASSED ADDING BUDGET ANALYST TO THIS LANGUAGE? AND HAVE I MISSED IT SOMEWHERE? IS IT INCLUDED IN THIS -- >>KENNETH TINKLER: I'LL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE -- >>JAN SMITH: IT WAS. I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT. >>KENNETH TINKLER: I BELIEVE THAT WAS INCLUDED. WE'LL GO THROUGH AND MAKE SURE IT IS IN HERE, OTHERWISE WE WILL CHECK THE MINUTES AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE LATEST VERSION. >>DENISE LASHER: FROM THE LATEST SUMMARY, IT LOOKS LIKE AUGUST THE 10th. THERE WAS A MOTION TO INCLUDE BUDGET ANALYST. IN THE LANGUAGE. >>KENNETH TINKLER: WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT'S INCORPORATED. >>DENISE LASHER: OKAY. THANK YOU. 43 >>JAN SMITH: MS. TUTTLE. >>MARY LOU TUTTLE: BOARD MEMBERS AND STEVE, I THINK YOU BROUGHT UP SOMETHING THAT WE DISCUSSED LAST WEEK. I HAD SAID THAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A VERY GOOD IDEA FOR THE AUDITOR TO REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE CHAIR, BUT THAT -- I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE AUDITOR -- I MEAN, THAT THE CHAIR SHOULD HAVE ANY DIRECT AUTHORITY. I LIKE THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN NOW. THE WHOLE BOARD HAS TO DECIDE ON IT, BUT I WAS JUST MAKING A CLARIFICATION OF THE DUTIES OF THE CHAIR, THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WAS THAT THE AUDITOR WOULD HAVE A POINT PERSON TO START WITH, AND THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON I BROUGHT THAT UP. I DIDN'T MEAN TO -- >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WASN'T READING INTO IT. >>JAN SMITH: MR. HURLEY. >>DAVID HURLEY: IF WE DECIDED IN OUR DISCUSSIONS THAT UNDER DIFFERENT FORMS OF THE GOVERNMENT, THE AUDITOR MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT POSITION. COULD WE INCLUDE THAT AS PART OF THAT ONE -- THAT ONE THING. PUT ONE THING ON THE BALLOT THAT WE WERE GOING TO THAT FORM OF GOVERNMENT WITH THE COUNTY AUDITOR, INCLUDE WITH IT RATHER THAN HAVING MULTIPLE THINGS ON THERE? I MEAN, JUST -- >>KENNETH TINKLER: IF THE BOARD CHOOSES TO PLACE SOMETHING ELSE ON THE BALLOT, OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULD NEED 10 VOTES FOR THAT IN ORDER TO CHANGE IT, YOU WOULD ALSO NEED 10 VOTES. THAT COULD BE INCORPORATED AT THE SAME TIME AT THE PUBLIC 44 HEARING. ANY CHANGES YOU WANTED TO REFINE THE POSITION THAT YOU PRESENTLY HAVE. >>DAVID HURLEY: COULD THAT BE JUST ONE ITEM ON THE BALLOT FOR A CHANGE IN STRUCTURE AND THE AUDITOR WILL JUST HAVE TO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ITEMS ON THE BALLOT? >>KENNETH TINKLER: WE CAN CERTAINLY COMBINE THE TWO. IT WOULD BE A CHANGE IN THIS AT THE MOMENT AND REQUIRE 10 VOTES. THE PROBLEM -- THE ONLY PROBLEM THAT COULD HAPPEN WITH THAT IS IT -- OBVIOUSLY IF IT WAS NOT APPROVED, NEITHER OF THE CHANGES WOULD GO INTO EFFECT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THEN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS WE CAN PASS OUT FOR THE PUBLIC THE FOUR -- THE 4-3 GOVERNMENT WITH GEOGRAPHICAL RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT, AND GO ON TO SAY AND THERE BE AN INTERNAL AUDITOR POSITION CREATED. AND THAT WOULD ALL BE UNDER ONE REFERENDUM. WE CAN DO THAT IF WE WANTED TO. >>KENNETH TINKLER: YOU CAN DO THAT IF YOU WANTED TO WITH 10 VOTES. >>DENISE LASHER: HOW WOULD YOU SQUEEZE ALL OF THAT LANGUAGE TOGETHER? >>JAN SMITH: I THINK THAT IS A DECISION WE WILL NEED TO FINALIZE NEXT WEEK -- OR THE NEXT MEETING. SO MANY THINGS COME DOWN TO DECISIONS THAT WE HAVE -- >>STEVE LaBOUR: I UNDERSTAND. I WOULD JUST URGE MY COLLEAGUES NOT TO DO IT THAT WAY BECAUSE 45 I WOULD BE AFRAID THAT ONE WOULD LOSE BECAUSE OF THE OTHER OR VICE VERSA. SO I JUST -- IF MR. HURLEY IS GOING IN THAT DIRECTION, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE HIM KIND OF RETHINK THAT. THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: IN FACT, AN EARLIER CHARTER REVIEW BOARD IN 1991, THEY DID PUT FORTH AN ENTIRE PACKAGE. AND BY PUTTING IT IN THE PACKAGE, THERE WAS A HOPE IT WOULD HOLD IT TOGETHER AND IN FACT IT DIDN'T MAKE IT THROUGH JUSTICE BY THE TIME IT WAS DONE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. TINKLER. >>KENNETH TINKLER: THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: WE ARE PRIVILEGED TO HAVE WITH US HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS, WHO HAS HAD MANY APPEARANCES ON TOM BROKAW RECENTLY. SOON SHE WILL BE RUNNING FOR SENATE. WE ARE DELIGHTED THAT YOU'RE HERE. WE CONGRATULATE YOU ON RUNNING A WONDERFUL OFFICE HERE. >> THANK YOU, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. >>JAN SMITH: HOPEFULLY YOUR INFLUENCE MIGHT BE FELT ACROSS THE STATE AS YOUR POSITION -- WHAT IS THAT TITLE? >> THE PRESIDENT OF THE STATE ASSOCIATION OF SUPERVISORS. >>JAN SMITH: I HOPE THEY WILL ALL LEARN A GREAT DEAL FROM YOU. WE ARE PROUD TO HAVE YOU HERE. I KNOW YOU HAVE A LETTER AND KIND OF LET YOU GIVE US YOUR COMMENTS AND IF YOU DON'T MIND, WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A FEW 46 QUESTIONS. >> THAT'S FINE AND IT IS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE. THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME. YOU HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, AND SO I TAKE IT YOU HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING MOVING TO A GREATER NUMBER OF SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, AND YOU HAVE DIFFERENT PROPOSALS FOR DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS. YOU KNOW, OUR STAFF HAS LOOKED AT THE REDISTRICTING THAT WILL OCCUR IN 2002. OF COURSE THE REDISTRICTING -- THE COUNTY COMMISSION WILL PERFORM THE REDISTRICTING THEMSELVES. OBVIOUSLY, THE GROWTH IS GOING TO BE IN THE NORTH, NORTHWEST AREA AND THE BRANDON SOUTH COUNTY AREA. AND THOSE DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO GEOGRAPHICALLY SHRINK BECAUSE THEIR POPULATION HAS INCREASED SO MUCH, AND WE'LL SEE OTHER DISTRICTS GROW GEOGRAPHICALLY. I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IN TERMS OF MINORITY REPRESENTATION IN DISTRICT 3 IS I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE HARDER UNDER THE 4-3 CONFIGURATION TO MAINTAIN HIGHER NUMBERS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN DISTRICT 3 BECAUSE OF THE GROWTH PATTERNS IN OUR COUNTY. AND THAT'S THE SAME CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE EVERY FOUR YEARS WHEN WE REDISTRICT THE CITY COUNCIL DISTRICTS IN THE CITY OF TAMPA. BECAUSE OF THE GROWTH IN THE CITY OF TAMPA BEING IN THE NEW TAMPA AREA AND THEN HAVING TO CONFIGURE BY POPULATION THE OTHER FOUR DISTRICTS. 47 SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASKED ME, I'M NOT QUITE SURE EXACTLY HOW TO ADDRESS THEM IN THE ABSENCE OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT YOUR PROPOSAL IS ON THE TABLE WITH REGARD TO THE COUNTY CHAIRMAN. AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT YOUR PROPOSAL IS. DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC PROPOSAL REGARDING A COUNTY CHAIRMAN AND THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS FOR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS? >>JAN SMITH: THERE IS A DISCUSSION AS TO HAVING AN ELECTED COUNTY CHAIRMAN. THAT WOULD HAVE CERTAIN RESPONSIBILITIES. IT WOULD NOT CREATE A STRONG MAYOR TYPE OF AN ORGANIZATION. >> OKAY. >>JAN SMITH: AND THEN GOING TO SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS OR INCREASING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TRYING TO KEEP STILL SOME AT-LARGE OR NOT. IT'S A BROAD QUESTION WE HAVE BEEN GRAPPLING WITH FOR OVER NINE MONTHS AND WE ARE STILL AT IT. >> I DO THINK WITH -- HAVING ONCE SERVED AS A SINGLE-MEMBER COUNTY COMMISSIONER IN DISTRICT 2, IT IS A -- YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE CONSTITUENT COMPLAINTS GO TO THE SINGLE-MEMBER COMMISSIONER. WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A DRAINAGE PROBLEM, THEY TEND NOT TO CALL THEIR COUNTYWIDE COMMISSIONER. THEY FIND OUT WHO THEIR SINGLE-MEMBER COMMISSIONER IS AND CALL THAT INDIVIDUAL. IT IS TOUGH FOR THOSE COMMISSIONERS IN THE HIGH-GROWTH AREAS 2 48 AND 4, BECAUSE THEY REALLY ARE SWAMPED WITH A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS OF GROWING JURISDICTIONS AND A LOT OF THE CONSTITUENT COMPLAINTS. I TEND TO THINK THAT AS OUR COUNTY IS GROWING SO MUCH IN SIZE AND IS SUCH A LARGE COUNTY, LARGER THAN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AS I ALWAYS SAY TO MY POLL WORKERS, RIGHT, IN CLASS, THAT IT WOULD MAKE SOME SENSE, I THINK, TO HAVE A GREATER NUMBER OF SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A GREATER EMPHASIS ON NEIGHBORHOOD REPRESENTATION. AND I ALSO THINK THAT IF WE'RE INTERESTED IN MAINTAINING A DISTRICT THAT HAS A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN POPULATION, THAT UNLESS WE GO TO SOMETHING GREATER THAN FOUR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS, THAT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO ACHIEVE. WHEN THE SCHOOL BOARD REDISTRICTED, THEY WENT TO FIVE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS AND THAT MADE IT EASY TO GO TO A DISTRICT WITH A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS. IF YOU STICK TO FOUR, YOU WILL HAVE A TOUGHER JOB OF THAT. AND I THINK YOU WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH COUNTY COMMISSIONERS FROM 2 AND 4 DEALING WITH SOME OF THE HIGH-GROWTH AREA PROBLEMS THAT WILL CONTINUE TO AFFECT THOSE DISTRICTS FOR, I THINK, THE NEXT MANY YEARS. SO I WOULD SAY, IF YOU ARE MOVING TOWARD A RESTRUCTURING, THAT YOU DO LOOK AT ADDING ADDITIONAL SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS. >>JAN SMITH: DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS THAT YOU WOULD MAKE ALONG THE LINES OF RESTRUCTURING? >> WELL, I -- >>JAN SMITH: I'LL GIVE YOU A BIG OPEN SPACE THERE. 49 >> I DON'T WANT TO BE REPETITIOUS ABOUT MY EARLIER COMMENTS. I SPOKE TO YOU SOME MONTHS AGO ABOUT HOW I SAW THE NEED FOR GREATER POLITICAL LEADERSHIP IN THIS COUNTY, VESTED IN AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD THE ABILITY TO AFFECT THE ADMINISTRATION OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT. AND IF THAT IS THE DIRECTION THAT YOU'RE MOVING IN, THEN I WOULD HEARTILY ENDORSE IT; HOWEVER, IF THAT IS NOT THE DIRECTION YOU ARE MOVING IN, THEN I WOULD LEAVE IT TO YOUR WISDOM AND THE WISDOM OF THE VOTERS TO DECIDE IF YOUR PROPOSAL WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT FOR OUR COUNTY. I THINK WITH ANY PROPOSAL THAT YOU PUT FORWARD, IT'S ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE SOLVING A PROBLEM. IF YOU ARE SOLVING A PROBLEM, GREAT. BUT MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE -- YOUR PROPOSAL SOLVES A PROBLEM. SO IF THAT'S WHAT YOUR PROPOSAL DOES, AND I'M -- I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF IT, THEN I THINK THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO COUNTY GOVERNMENT. >>JAN SMITH: HAVING BEEN A COUNTY COMMISSIONER, DO YOU -- DO YOU SEE ANY GREAT BENEFIT TO HAVING THE 4-3 OR A 5-4 OR, YOU KNOW, HAVING AT-LARGE COMMISSIONERS ALSO AS OPPOSED TO ALL SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS? >> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE BENEFITS TO THAT WAS THE VOTERS ALWAYS HAD A HAND IN ELECTING THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT. HOWEVER, HAVING BEEN ELECTED FROM A SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT FROM THE FIRST DAY ON THE COMMISSION, I FELT THAT I WAS 50 COUNTYWIDE, AND I THINK THAT COMMISSIONERS DO FEEL THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY ADDRESSING ISSUES IN ALL CORNERS OF OUR COUNTY. AND SO YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP A COUNTYWIDE PERSPECTIVE. BUT I DO THINK IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A BALANCE BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TOO MANY PAROCHIAL CONCERNS DRAGGING DOWN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS. A LOT OF ISSUES GO IN CYCLES. WE HAVE BEEN WITHOUT A LOT OF MAJOR ISSUES FOR A WHILE. I HAVE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THERE ARE MAJOR ISSUES THAT AFFECT MAJOR REGIONS OF THIS COUNTY, AND I DO THINK IT IS VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE ELECTED ON A COUNTYWIDE BASIS. >>JAN SMITH: SO LEGALLY, AND BECAUSE YOU'VE LOOKED AT THIS IN THE PAST, COULD THIS BOARD, IN YOUR OPINION, GET THROUGH JUSTICE IF THEY PROPOSE AN ELECTED CHAIRMAN AND SPLIT DISTRICTS 4-3 OR 2 -- THERE WOULD BE THE 4 AND 2 AND THEN THE AT-LARGE CHAIRMAN. OR DO YOU THINK JUSTICE WOULD COME DOWN AND DEMAND THE SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS? >> SO YOU WOULD STILL HAVE SEVEN COMMISSIONERS, BUT ONE OF THEM WOULD BE A COUNTYWIDE CHAIRMAN. TWO OTHERS WOULD BE COUNTYWIDE AND STILL HAVE THE FOUR SINGLE MEMBERS? I THINK THE DEBATE ON THE PART OF JUSTICE IS YOU HAVE AFFECTED VOTING RIGHTS IN YOU VESTED MORE POWER INTO THIS ONE CHAIRMAN PERSON, I TAKE IT, AND THEY WOULD LOOK AT WHETHER THERE HAD 51 BEEN ANY DIMINISHMENT OF MINORITY RIGHTS. AND I'M NOT SURE IF YOU COULD ARGUE THAT UNDER THIS PLAN YOU WOULD HAVE DIMINISH MINORITY RIGHTS BY DOING THAT. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. MR. HURLEY AND THEN MR. LaBOUR. >>DAVID HURLEY: UNDER THE CURRENT SCHEME WHERE WE HAVE THE 4-3, AND YOU SAID IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN, I THINK IT'S 35%. >> RIGHT, 36. >>DAVID HURLEY: -- IN DISTRICT 3 AT THIS TIME. COULD JUSTICE STEP IN AFTER REDISTRICTING AND SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS HAVE -- BY GROWING SO FAST, HAVE MUDDLED THIS THING WHERE YOU NO LONGER HAVE A DISTRICT WITH A STRONG LIKELIHOOD OF ELECTING A MINORITY MEMBER AND MAKE -- FORCE THE CHANGE? I MEAN, THAT'S -- >> THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, AND MARY HELEN CAMPBELL KNOWS MORE ABOUT IT THAN I DO, BUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DOES HAVE THE RIGHT TO OFFER THEIR OBJECTIONS TO A PLAN AND NOT APPROVE A PLAN, WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID IN 1984 WHEN THEY DID NOT APPROVE THE COUNTY'S PLAN, AND THAT -- AND THAT ELECTION HAD TO BE CANCELLED IN AUGUST OF 1984. SO THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME IN AND SAY, WE'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE NUMBERS. WE ARE NOT SATISFIED. AND THEY CAN EITHER ACCEPT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WHICH THEY DID IN 1984 AND ULTIMATELY ACCEPTED THE 4-3 PLAN, OR THEY CAN REQUEST THAT THE COUNTY DEVELOP ANOTHER PLAN. 52 IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT, MARY HELEN? >>JAN SMITH: MR. LaBOUR AND THEN MS. LASHER. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IF WE WENT TO -- KEPT THE TOTAL NUMBER AT 7, BUT WE EXPANDED THE SINGLE-MEMBER TO 6 AND HAD AN ELECTED CHAIR, YOU SPOKE ABOUT THE CONCERN ABOUT PAROCHIALISM, AND YOU ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS A NICE SCHEME TO HAVE AT-LARGE AND SINGLE-MEMBER. BUT UNDER TODAY'S STRUCTURE, THERE IS NO CHAIRMAN. THEY APPOINT THEIR OWN CHAIRMAN. >> RIGHT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IF THERE WAS SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY RAN COUNTYWIDE. ONE SINGLE COMMISSIONER THAT RAN COUNTYWIDE FOR THAT CHAIR, DO YOU THINK IT IS AS IMPORTANT THEN TO HAVE OTHER -- TWO AT-LARGE THAT REALLY AREN'T CHAIR BUT THEY ARE STILL AT-LARGE? >> WELL, DOES THIS NEW CHAIR HAVE ANY PARTICULAR POWERS THAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS WILL NOT HAVE? >>STEVE LaBOUR: RIGHT NOW IN OUR DISCUSSIONS, THEY WOULD HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL POWERS, BUT IT APPEARS WE ARE NOT -- AT THIS POINT, WE ARE NOT WILLING TO GIVE THEM A LOT MORE POWER, BUT A LITTLE MORE POWER. >> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT BE ASKING FOR SOME TROUBLE IF YOU SET UP AN INDIVIDUAL, AND YOU DON'T DIFFERENTIATE THAT MUCH BETWEEN HOW THEY PLAY IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS FROM THEIR COLLEAGUES AND YOU MAKE SOME OF THEIR COLLEAGUES ALSO COUNTYWIDE AND ELECTED BY THE EXACT SAME CONSTITUENCY. I SUSPECT YOU ARE GOING TO START TO HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH 53 THAT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: OKAY. SECOND QUESTION, MADAM CHAIR. >>JAN SMITH: YES, SIR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IF WE KEEP THE -- THE BOARD IS ALSO TALKING ABOUT IF WE KEEP THE PRESENT STRUCTURE -- >> RIGHT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: -- CLEARLY THERE SEEMS TO BE ALMOST UNANIMOUS SUPPORT THAT THE AT-LARGE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE GEOGRAPHIC RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT, REQUIRE THEM TO LIVE IN SEPARATE SECTIONS OF THE COUNTY. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT PROPOSAL? >> THAT'S HOW THE SCHOOL BOARD WAS STRUCTURED FOR MANY YEARS, AND IT SEEMED TO WORK WELL IN TERMS OF ENSURING THAT MEMBERS WERE DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY. THEY HAD TO LIVE IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS, BUT THEY WERE ELECTED COUNTYWIDE, AND THAT WAS IN EFFECT FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES, AND I THINK IT WORKED WELL. >>JAN SMITH: MS. LASHER. >>DENISE LASHER: THANK YOU FOR COMING THIS EVENING. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE DISTRICTS THAT LIE TO THE NORTH OF DISTRICT 3. AND I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT IS THE ETHNICITY OF THOSE PRECINCTS, GO UP INTO THE USF AREA. BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE HAD SOME MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE FROM DISTRICT 3 INTO THAT AREA WITH SOME OF THE HOUSING THAT'S BEEN DEMOLISHED, UNFORTUNATELY FOR THOSE RESIDENTS. 54 THEY HAVE HAD TO RELOCATE. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO LOOK AT ETHNICITY IN THAT AREA. AND I KNOW THE POPULATION CERTAINLY HAS GROWN IN THAT AREA. AND THAT COULD PERHAPS KEEP OUR -- THAT DISTRICT 3 POTENTIALLY WITHIN THAT 35% RANGE. AND THAT WAS WHY I WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THAT DATA TO SEE -- >> I'M NOT PREPARED TONIGHT TO SPEAK TO THAT. >>DENISE LASHER: BUT YOU COULD GIVE US THAT INFORMATION? >> OUR OFFICE HAS ALL THAT INFORMATION OF RACIAL BREAKDOWN PER PRECINCT, YES. >>DENISE LASHER: ONE OF THE QUESTIONS YOU ASKED ABOUT EARLIER, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MAKING THE COUNTY MAKE SOME CHANGES IF THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY THE LINES WERE DRAWN AND THAT -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE DIMINISHING THE MINORITY REPRESENTATION. COULD THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MAKE US GO TO SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS? OR THEY WOULD JUST SEND IT BACK AND TRY TO REDRAW THE LINES. >> I THINK WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TENDS TO DO, IF YOU DON'T SATISFY THEIR OBJECTIONS AT SOME POINT THEY SEND IT BACK AND SAY TRY AGAIN. AND THEN YOU SEND THEM ANOTHER PROPOSAL. WHICH IS WHY IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOUR PROPOSALS PRECLEARED BEFORE IT GOES TO THE BALLOT WHICH WAS NOT DONE IN 1983. AND I THINK THE COUNTY REALLY LEARNED FROM THAT HOW IMPORTANT 55 IT IS TO DO THAT. I DON'T THINK THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT COMES BACK AND SAYS, NOW THIS IS WHAT YOUR CONFIGURATION MUST BE. THEY TELL YOU TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND TELL YOU TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING THEY AGAIN REVIEW AGAIN AND GIVE YOU AN UP OR DOWN. >>DENISE LASHER: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ANY COMMUNITIES THAT ARE SIMILAR TO OUR SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OVERSIGHT AND MR. HOSLER WAS HERE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION EARLIER AND HE INDICATED WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT THE MINORITY POPULATION HAS DISPERSED MORE OUT INTO OUR COMMUNITY. FORTUNATELY, WE HAD THAT OCCUR AND THAT IS SOMETHING ULTIMATELY THAT SOCIETY WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN. WE DON'T HAVE THIS HUGE POCKET OF MINORITIES LIVING IN A CERTAIN PARTICULAR GEOGRAPHIC AREA. AND SO, IT BECOMES DIFFICULT WHEN YOU HAVE TO DO REAPPORTIONMENT DUE TO THE POPULATION CHANGE AND YOUR MINORITY POPULATION HAS DISPERSED. IN SOME COMMUNITIES, I'M SURE THEY FACE SIMILAR SITUATIONS WHERE YOU COULDN'T DRAW THE LINES ANY BETTER, AND THAT YOU END UP HAVING THAT ONE DISTRICT THAT HAD A GREATER PERCENT MINORITY. YOU CAN'T GET IT ANY HIGHER WITHOUT CHANGING YOUR STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ANY OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE HAD TO FACE THOSE SITUATIONS? 56 >> FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD SAY THAT IN OUR COMMUNITY, IT IS TRUE THAT THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY IS DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY IN MANY DIFFERENT AREAS, AND IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO DRAW ONE DISTRICT THAT CONCENTRATED A GREAT NUMBER OF HISPANIC VOTERS. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE WITH THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT IT IS CONCENTRATED IN SEVERAL SPOTS, AND THE ONLY AREA THAT IS DIFFICULT TO BRING INTO THE MAIN POPULATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS IS THE PLANT CITY POPULATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS. AND IN ORDER TO CONNECT TO THAT COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF CONNECTING TO AN EXISTING SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT THAT IS IN THE CITY OF TAMPA AREA, YOU HAVE TO -- YOU DILUTE MINORITY STRENGTH SIGNIFICANTLY BY TRYING TO MAKE A CONNECTION THERE. SO IN -- IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, WE -- THERE ARE TWO -- IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT MINORITY COMMUNITIES, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SITUATIONS THAT PLAY HERE AS OUR STAFF DISCOVERED VERY -- QUITE ACUTELY WHEN WE WERE WORKING ON SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD. THAT IT'S TWO DIFFERENT SITUATIONS ALTOGETHER. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. WHITE. >>GERALD WHITE: THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. PAM, I WOULD LIKE TO PUBLICLY COMMEND YOU ON THE OUTSTANDING JOB YOU HAVE DONE IN RELATION TO THIS PAST ELECTION CYCLE. I KNOW I HAVE BEEN VERY KEENLY INVOLVED IN ALL THE RECOUNTS THAT HAVE GONE ON AND I HAVE BEEN MONITORING YOUR MEDIA ON TELEVISION AND IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES." 57 I WAS INTERROGATED BY THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND THEY WANTED TO KNOW QUESTIONS. AND I WAS PLEASED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH, IN MY OPINION, POSITIVE ANSWERS RELATED TO YOUR ACTIVITY AS A SUPERVISOR OF ELECTION OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. >> THANK YOU. >>GERALD WHITE: YOU HAVE DONE US PROUD AND YOU HAVE MADE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY A SHINING LIGHT IN FLORIDA AND THE WORLD. YOU ARE TRULY TO BE COMMENDED. YOU HAVE SHOWN TREMENDOUS LEADERSHIP. I DON'T SAY THAT LIGHTLY, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN WATCHING AND -- A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY HAVE BEEN WATCHING. SO YOU HAVE DONE US PROUD. >> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>JAN SMITH: DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION. >>GERALD WHITE: YES, I DO. >> HE DOESN'T HAVE TO ASK A QUESTION. I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT. >>JAN SMITH: WOULD YOU LIKE TO TAPE-RECORD THAT. WE'LL HAVE BARBARA PULL IT OFF THE MINUTES FOR YOU. >> THAT'S RIGHT. [ LAUGHTER ] >>JAN SMITH: WE'LL SEND IT TO TOM BROKAW. >>GERALD WHITE: SO MANY IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT HAVE COME BY IN OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR COUNTY AND THEY HAVE ASKED IMPORTANT QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE ELECTIONS. 58 AND WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GIVE GOOD ANSWERS, GOOD POSITIVE ANSWERS IN RELATED TO OUR OFFICE -- THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS OFFICE. THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS THE -- THE 6-1 PLAN. I HAD THE PLANNING COMMISSION DRAW UP A SCENARIO, AND THAT PARTICULAR PLAN, IF YOU HAD 6 SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICT AND 1 COUNTYWIDE DISTRICT, THEY DID A LITTLE SCENARIO AND HAVE A MAJORITY, MINORITY DISTRICT OF 58.0%. >> OKAY. >>GERALD WHITE: AND SO, THERE IS SOME HOPE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL GO THAT ROUTE, BUT I WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW THERE IS SOME HOPE FOR A MINORITY-MAJORITY DISTRICT IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AND I WANTED TO SAY THIS. I HAVE BEEN HEARING MS. LASHER TALK ABOUT THE CENSUS, VERSUS THE SUPERVISORS OF ELECTIONS OFFICE PRECINCT NUMBERS. THE FORMAL NUMBERS THAT ARE USED FOR REDRAWING LINES IS THE CENSUS; IS THAT CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >>GERALD WHITE: IF THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS OR HISPANICS MOVE INTO A COMMUNITY AFTER THE CENSUS DATA IS DONE, IS THERE ANY KIND OF CORRECTION? WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT TO USE TO GO BY? >> I'M NOT SURE I CAN SPEAK TO THAT AS CLEARLY AS MR. HOSLER WOULD BE ABLE TO. I DO BELIEVE -- I KNOW IT IS THOUGH THE CENSUS DATA THAT WILL BE USED IN THE DRAWING OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION DISTRICTS, AS 59 WELL AS THE -- HOPEFULLY THE STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS. >>GERALD WHITE: OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHETHER OR NOT THE MOVEMENT TOOK PLACE AFTER THE CENSUS WAS DONE OR NOT. >> ARE YOU REFERRING TO HOPE SIX? >>GERALD WHITE: CORRECT. >> I THINK THAT WAS BEFORE THE CENSUS. THAT'S BEEN GOING ON NOW -- I THINK DURING. >>GERALD WHITE: OKAY. >> RIGHT. >>GERALD WHITE: THANK YOU. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. BALES. >>JOHN BALES: HOW MANY VOTERS ARE THERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY? >> 500,000 VOTERS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. >>JOHN BALES: THESE ARE REGISTERED VOTERS? >> REGISTERED VOTERS. >>JAN SMITH: I RECEIVED A REQUEST ASKING IF YOU BELIEVED -- REALLY WASN'T TO BE DIRECTED TO YOU, BUT WAS THERE A ROLE FOR THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD TO PLAY IN SOLVING THE VOTING MACHINE ISSUE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AND I -- DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD SHOULD CONSIDER? >> WELL, AS ACTIVE AND CONCERNED CITIZENS, I THINK YOU HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY, ABSOLUTELY. 60 PERHAPS NOT FORMALLY AS THE CHARTER REVIEW BOARD, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE CHANGED VOTING SYSTEMS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, WHEN I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND WE ARE ASKING FOR A LARGE EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS, AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE WAY PEOPLE VOTE, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT IS SOLELY DEVELOPED AND PRESENTED BY ONE PERSON TO A GOVERNING BOARD ADOPTED AND THEN WE MOVE ON. THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY IT'S GOING TO WORK. WHEN WE MOVE TO CHANGE VOTING SYSTEMS IN OUR COMMUNITY, THIS IS A COMMUNITY EFFORT. AND I THINK THAT ACTIVE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY NEED TO BECOME INVOLVED IN THIS ISSUE. AND I INTEND TO INVOLVE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY. FIRST, IN THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS AND THEN IN THE IMPLEMENTATION PROCESS AS WE TAKE THE NEW MACHINES OUT TO THE COMMUNITIES. AND I WILL BE CALLING UPON YOU, AND I HOPE THAT YOU'LL CALL ON ME BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A SINGLE -- THIS IS A PROCESS THAT IS COMMUNITY-BASED, AND IT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT A NEW VOTING SYSTEM CAN BE SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED IN A COUNTY OUR SIZE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE VOTING HABITS OF 500,000 PEOPLE. A BIG EDUCATION PROGRAM AND A BIG INVESTMENT OF TAX DOLLARS. AND I THINK PEOPLE OUGHT TO ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS, AND THEY OUGHT TO EXPECT ME TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. AND THEY OUGHT TO CRITICIZE, IF THEY DISAGREE. AND THEY OUGHT TO GO BEFORE THE COUNTY COMMISSION AND TELL 61 THEM THAT WE NEED A NEW VOTING SYSTEM, IF THEY AGREE. AND I EXPECT IT TO BE A VERY ACTIVE PROCESS, FILLED WITH CITIZEN PARTICIPATION, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT OUGHT TO BE. SO I WOULD HOPE THAT ALL OF YOU WOULD BE INVOLVED IN IT, AND I WILL CALL UPON YOU INDIVIDUALLY TO BE ACTIVE IN THE PROCESS BECAUSE IT IS A CRUCIAL TURNING POINT FOR OUR COUNTY AS WE CHANGE VOTING SYSTEMS. >>JAN SMITH: WHETHER WE WILL HAVE THE TIME AND ABILITY TO DO IT, I WILL TELL YOU THAT I THINK THE SENTIMENT IS, BECAUSE THE BOARD HAS PREVIOUSLY TAKEN ACTION WHERE THEY SENT A RESOLUTION TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS REGARDING THE OATH OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND ASKING THAT THEY ADD THE CHARTER TO THAT OATH. AND THEY DID IT. AND THE NEWLY SWORN COMMISSIONERS TOOK THAT OATH. THIS CHARTER REVIEW BOARD MAY OPT TO IN A RESOLUTION FORWARD SOMETHING TO THE BOARD REGARDING THE ISSUES. AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WILL BE THE DECISION OF THIS BOARD TO DO THAT, BUT THE ISSUE CLEARLY IN THE FOREFRONT OF EVERYONE'S MIND. >> IT IS. >>JAN SMITH: AND WE WOULD, I THINK, BE REMISS IF WE DIDN'T TAKE SOME POSITION. WE WOULD HOPEFULLY GET AROUND TO DOING THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. IORIO? >> MAY I ADDRESS -- APPARENTLY ANOTHER ISSUE UP FOR CONSIDERATION, MS. LASHER, REGARDING NONPARTISAN SUPERVISOR OF 62 ELECTIONS. YOUR PROPOSAL IS -- DO YOU WANT TO ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT NOW THAT I'M HERE OR DOES ANY OTHER -- >>DENISE LASHER: PLEASE, I WOULD LOVE YOU TO. >> OUR STATE ASSOCIATION OF SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS HAS MADE A PRIORITY AND PART OF OUR LEGISLATIVE AGENDA TO MAKE THE SUPERVISORS OF ELECTIONS ACROSS THE STATE NONPARTISAN. WE HAVE FELT THIS WAY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. I FEEL THAT WHEN MY NAME OR ANYONE'S NAME RUNNING FOR SUPERVISOR IS ON THE BALLOT, IT SHOULD NOT BE WITH A PARTY LABEL NEXT TO IT, BECAUSE THAT IS NOT HOW WE OUGHT TO BE APPEALING TO VOTERS OR NOR IS IT A WAY I RUN MY OFFICE. I RUN MY OFFICE IN A COMPLETELY NONPARTISAN WAY, AND I THINK WE OUGHT TO ENTER OFFICE WITH THAT ASSUMPTION. SO, TODAY, IN FACT, WE MET IN COMMITTEE MEETING TO DECIDE OUR LEGISLATIVE AGENDA AND TOP ON THE LIST, ONE OF THE TOP FIVE, WAS TO ASK THE LEGISLATURE TO ADOPT LEGISLATION TO MAKE SUPERVISORS ACROSS THE STATE NONPARTISAN. I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD CHANCE OF THAT PASSING. AND I WOULD ASK THAT YOU ALLOW THAT LEGISLATIVE PROCESS TO WORK, BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT THAT IT BE DONE ON A STATEWIDE LEVEL. I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE IT DONE IN THE CONFINES OF THIS STATE CHARTER. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE, YOU OUGHT TO LOOK AT IT IN ITS APPLICABILITY TO ALL CONSTITUTIONALS. BUT IF YOU OPT NOT GO DOWN THAT ROAD, THEN I WANT YOU TO KNOW 63 THAT OUR STATE ASSOCIATION WOULD BE LOBBYING FOR CHANGES SO THAT AT LEAST OUR PROFESSION IS SINGLED OUT AND RUNNING ON A NONPARTISAN BASIS. >>JAN SMITH: IF YOU HAD ANY WORDING REGARDING YOUR RECOMMENDATION, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING YOU COULD SEND TO THIS BOARD AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO PERHAPS CONSIDER IT. WE'VE GOT A LOT TO DO BETWEEN NOW AND FEBRUARY THE 8th, BUT I THINK IT IS AN ISSUE THAT'S CERTAINLY IMPORTANT TO EVERYONE AND WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. MS. LASHER, IF I MAY CONTINUE ON PART OF YOUR QUESTION HERE. WHAT IS YOUR POSITION OF BRINGING THE SUPERVISORS OF ELECTIONS UNDER THE CHARTER? OR DO YOU PREFER TO LEAVE IT AS -- >> I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LEAVE IT AS IT IS. I THINK OF ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, YOU WANT THE GREATEST INDEPENDENCE FROM YOUR SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS. I THINK THE CASE WOULD BE MADE THAT OF ALL OF THEM, THAT'S THE ONE THAT YOU WANT TO REMAIN A CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER. I THINK IF YOU WANTED ME TO, IF THERE WAS TRULY SENTIMENT TO MOVE IN THE DIRECTION, THEN I WOULD TAKE YOUR TIME TO GIVE YOU ALL THE ARGUMENTS WHY, BUT I WON'T DO THAT UNLESS YOU INDICATE THAT THERE'S REALLY A LARGE NUMBER OF YOU THAT REALLY DO WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE BALLOT. OTHERWISE I WILL RESPECT YOUR TIME CONSTRAINTS. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I APPRECIATE YOU MAKING SURE WE ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WHILE YOU ARE THERE, AND I DO THANK MS. LASHER FOR RAISING THE ISSUE. 64 JUST AS WE CAN MAKE A RESOLUTION AS A BOARD THAT'S NOT BINDING ON ANYONE TO SEND TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, WE CERTAINLY CAN SEND A SIMILAR RESOLUTION TO THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION, AS WELL AS TO YOUR ORGANIZATION, AND I THINK WE CAN EXPLAIN IN THAT, IN ORDER FOR US TO DO IT UNDER THE CHARTER, WE WILL HAVE TO BRING THAT OFFICE, IN ESSENCE, UNDER THE COUNTY WHICH WE DON'T THINK IS A GOOD FIX IF THAT IS THE CASE. MS. LASHER WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT IS THE BEST VEHICLE TO ULTIMATELY GET US THERE. I WOULD LIKE FOR THE BOARD AT SOME TIME TO CONSIDER RESOLUTION THAT MAYBE WE CAN AT SOME TIME PASS ALONG TO OTHERS. >>JAN SMITH: THAT'S WHY MY REQUEST FOR HER TO PROVIDE US WITH SOME WRITTEN LANGUAGE OF WHAT YOU ALL HAVE SENT TO THE LEGISLATURE OR WHAT YOU INTEND SO WE CAN, PERHAPS, IF IT IS THE SENTIMENT OF THIS BOARD, PIGGYBACK ON THAT AND SEND A RESOLUTION. MR. BELTRAN. >>HENRY BELTRAN: I APPRECIATE YOU TELLING US WHAT DO YOU THINK OF NONPARTISAN FOR THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS? IN AN ELECTION NONPARTISAN SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO RUN ABOUT -- >> OH, FOR THE COUNTY COMMISSION. WELL, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT HAS CHANGED SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON THE COUNTY COMMISSION. AND I -- I TEND TO THINK THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCILS ARE INVOLVED WITH THE DELIVERY OF SERVICES. I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY YOUR PRIMARY FUNCTION, THE DELIVERY OF 65 URBAN SERVICES PRIMARILY IN A GROWING URBAN COUNTY. SO YOU DEAL WITH ISSUES OF SERVICE DELIVERY, OF SEWAGE DISPOSAL, OF WATER TREATMENT, OF BUILDING OF LIBRARIES, OF BUILDING OF ROADS, OF WHETHER TO GO WITH MASS TRANSIT, AND I HAVE NEVER VIEWED THOSE ISSUES IN A PARTISAN LIGHT. I DID NOT IN MY EIGHT YEARS ON THE COUNTY COMMISSION, I DID NOT, AND I DON'T TODAY. I THINK YOU LOOK AT THOSE ISSUES IN TERMS OF THE DELIVERY OF SERVICES. NOW ONE CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU GET INTO ISSUES OF TAXATION AND THAT THOSE ISSUES OF TAXATION TEND TO HAVE A PARTISAN RING TO THEM. BUT I THINK THAT WE'RE -- WHERE PARTISANSHIP TENDS TO HAVE ITS PLACE IN LARGE LEGISLATIVE BODIES. LARGE -- CONGRESS, LEGISLATURES, WHERE PARTISANSHIP CLEARLY DEFINES LEADERSHIP ROLES AND COMMITTEE STRUCTURES. AND THAT'S WHERE PARTISANSHIP PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN OUR COUNTRY. BUT WHEN YOU GET TO THE LOCAL LEVEL, AND YOU TALK ABOUT SCHOOL BOARDS, COUNTY COMMISSION, I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE ROLE OF PARTY AFFILIATION. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW PRETTY MUCH SOMEONE'S PARTY AFFILIATION BEFORE THEY VOTE FOR THEM, BUT I DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY. AND I THINK THAT WE WOULD BE BETTER SERVED IN WE DID NOT EMPHASIZE PARTY AFFILIATION SO MUCH ON THE LOCAL LEVEL AND INSTEAD JUST FOCUSED ON GETTING GOOD PEOPLE ON -- WHO 66 CONCENTRATED ON THE DELIVERY OF SERVICES TO OUR COMMUNITY. >>HENRY BELTRAN: THANK YOU. VERY NICE. >>JAN SMITH: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE TO RELATE AN INCIDENT, AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING AS YOU DID. A FRIEND OF MINE TEACHES SCHOOL. AND SHE WAS VERY INTERESTED IN HAVING HER YOUNG STUDENTS, FIRST GRADERS, LEARN ABOUT OUR VOTING PROCESS. AND SHE CALLED ME AND ASKED ME HOW SHE COULD GET SOMETHING DONE SO THAT THESE CHILDREN COULD LEARN ABOUT OUR VOTING PROCESS IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. AND MS. IORIO, SUPERVISOR IORIO, WAS KIND ENOUGH TO SEND EITHER HERSELF OR A MEMBER OF HER STAFF AND WENT TO THAT CLASSROOM AND TOOK VOTING MACHINES AND EVERYTHING. AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR GOING TO THAT EXTENT TO AID OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND THE FUTURE VOTERS OF THIS COUNTY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. WHAT AM I GOING TO SAY TO THE STUDENTS WHEN I GO BACK TO THEIR CLASSROOMS AFTER THEIR DISCUSSION. I AM GOING TO HAVE TO REVAMP MY TALK ALTOGETHER. THEY ARE GOING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT. >>JAN SMITH: I VOTED ABSENTEE AND I HAVE BEEN WONDERING EVER SINCE IF MY VOTE COUNTED. WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING -- IT WAS DEFINITELY POSTMARKED. 67 AND IF YOU CAN GET US THAT INFORMATION TO PERHAPS PASS A RESOLUTION HERE TO SEND A LETTER TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE REGARDING THE SUPERVISORS OF ELECTIONS, WE'D APPRECIATE THAT. >> I APPRECIATE THAT AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR VOLUNTEER WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY. YOU ARE PUTTING IN A LOT OF LONG HOURS AND PEOPLE REALLY APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>JAN SMITH: THANK YOU. BOARD MEMBERS, I HAVE A SIGN-IN SHEET THAT WE'RE WAY PAST PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING. AND THE NEXT PUBLIC COMMENT IS AT THE END OF THE MEETING. AND COMMISSIONER HART HAS COME IN AND BROUGHT ME A SIGN-IN SHEET. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IN DEFERENCE TO HIM AND HIS TIME COMMITMENT IS TO GIVE HIM HIS FIVE MINUTES AND THEN WE WILL TAKE A BREAK AND GO ON WITH OUR AGENDA. COMMISSIONER HART. HART HART GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIR AND BOARD MEMBERS. THANK YOU FOR THAT OPPORTUNITY. IF IT SUITS YOUR ORDER BETTER TO GO TO AUDIENCE COMMENTS THE LAST. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITY THAT YOU'RE CARRYING OUT FOR US AS CITIZENS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. I HAVE SPOKEN TO THE LAST TWO, AND THIS CAME ALONG, THIS YEAR HAS MOVED MORE QUICKLY AND CHRISTMAS IS HERE BEFORE I KNEW IT, SO I THOUGHT I BEST COME NOW, PARTICULARLY WITH YOUR SCHEDULE 68 OF PUBLIC HEARINGS LATER. BUT I'VE GOT TO PUT MY COMMENTS IN BOTH HISTORICAL CONTEXT, BUT ALSO TO THE ISSUES THAT I HEARD YOU ADDRESS LATELY AND I GUESS PERHAPS EVEN SOME OF THE NUMBERS, WHETHER IT'S ONE CHAIR ELECTED COUNTYWIDE, TWO OTHERS ELECTED COUNTYWIDE, OTHER DISTRICTS, 6-1, 5-3, WHATEVER THE NUMBERS ARE, IT REALLY PROMPTED QUESTIONS MORE SO THAN ANSWERS. AND I FELT PARTICULARLY, AFTER HAVING SERVED AS A PLANNING COMMISSIONER AND NOW IN MY SECOND AND LAST YEARS AS A COUNTY COMMISSIONER TO COME BEFORE YOU AND TALK ABOUT JUST A FEW THINGS. SIMPLY, THE SIMPLE GUIDE WORDS I USE IN LOOKING AT THIS ARE FIRST, ACCOUNTABILITY, AND THEN LOOKING AT THE TWIN TOWERS OF RESPONSIBILITY AND AUTHORITY, AND THEN THROUGHOUT ALL THAT CHECKS AND BALANCES AS WE DESIGN IN THIS REPUBLIC OF OURS. FOR ME, THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT MUST BE BASED ON THE FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT. THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT WE HAVE TODAY WAS FINE WHEN THEY LOOKED AT IT, BECAUSE IT WAS RESPONDING TO A NEED THAT WAS FELT THAT NEEDED TO BE MET AT THAT TIME. BUT IF WE WERE TO, IN FACT, HAVE THE GOVERNMENT WE NEED FOR THE FUTURE, WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE AS COMPARED TO WHERE WE WERE IN HISTORY YEARS AGO OR 150-PLUS YEARS AGO. EACH OF YOU RECOGNIZE AS WE APPROACH A POPULATION OF ALMOST A MILLION, NO LONGER THAT SOUTHERN AREA WITH THREE TOWNS, WITH TAMPA CALLED THE COUNTY SEAT. WE ARE NOW AT THE THRESHOLD OF A MILLION IN POPULATION, BUT A 69 COUNTY THAT IS OVER 600,000 AND A CITY THAT IN 30 YEARS IS STILL APPROXIMATELY 300,000. GROWN BY ANNEXATION, ABOUT 20,000 OVER THIS 30 YEARS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ROLE OF A COUNTY COMMISSIONER, WHEN I LOOK AT THE FORM OF A GOVERNMENT, WHICH HAS BEEN A LOT OF YOUR QUESTIONS, WHAT YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS NOT WHETHER YOU ARE A DISTRICT OR AT-LARGE COMMISSIONER, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST, EVEN UNDER THIS PRESENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT, EACH COMMISSIONER ONLY HAS ONE VOTE. I, AS AN AT-LARGE COMMISSIONER, DON'T HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY OR AN AUTHORITY TO SAY, I KNOW BETTER THAN THE DISTRICT COMMISSIONER. FOR, IN FACT, THE REVERSE IS TRUE. IN FACT, WE HAVE HAD A RETREAT TODAY THAT MADE THAT POINT VERY WELL AS COMMISSIONER STACEY EASTERLING WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN WORKING VERY HARD TO GET ELECTED IN DISTRICT 1, BUT SINCE I HAVE COME INTO OFFICE, I HAVE HAD MORE PHONE CALLS FROM PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN DISTRICT 2, 3, AND 4 ON THE ISSUES WE ARE GOING TO VOTE ON. AND THAT'S SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT, PARTICULARLY ON DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS, A DISTRICT, BUT YOU SERVE THE WHOLE COUNTY. AND THE DAY YOU ARE ELECTED AND RAISE YOUR HAND, YOU MAY STILL CONTINUE TO REPRESENT THAT DISTRICT, BUT YOU SERVE THE WHOLE COUNTY. IN THE CASE OF THE THREE OF US THAT WERE ELECTED AT LARGE, WE ALSO SERVE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY, BUT WE ALSO REPRESENT ALL. 70 AND SO WE HAVE A BALANCING ACT WHERE WE GO THROUGH LOOKING AT THE LARGER ISSUES PERHAPS, BUT GUESS WHAT, IT DOESN'T MATTER. BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE ONE VOTE. SO YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE NUMBERS ALL YOU WANT, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THE OUTPUT OF GOVERNMENT. WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT DO WE HAVE AND DOES IT SERVE US? AND WILL IT SERVE US IN THE FUTURE? SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT, LEGISLATIVE AND EXECUTIVE, I'VE GOT A DIFFERENT VIEW THAN PERHAPS SOME OF YOU HERE AND PERHAPS SOME OF THE PUBLIC, BUT WHEN YOU KNOW, AND YOU LOOK AT THE REAL FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT, AND YOU LOOK AND SEE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SET NOT ONLY LEGISLATIVE POLICY BUT EXECUTIVE POLICY. THERE IS NO AUTHORITY FOR THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE. THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, TO SET HIS OWN POLICY. IT IS SET AND THEY CARRY OUT THAT OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT -- LOOK AT ALL THIS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE, BECAUSE YOU COME DOWN TO ONE VOTE. SO YOU'VE GOT TO ASK YOURSELF, DOES THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT ALLOW US TO BE SURE THAT WE, NUMBER ONE, HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ALL THE CITIZENS. DOES IT HAVE RESPONSIBILITY AND AUTHORITY AND DOES IT GIVE US CHECKS AND BALANCES? I SUBMIT THAT IT DOES NOT. I THINK WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO ASK AND ANSWER. 71 SO WITH MY TIME, MADAM CHAIR, AND YOU HAVE BEEN VERY GENEROUS, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. SOME OTHER THINGS ON CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER AND OPINION ON THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND WOULD BE GLAD TO ANSWER THAT IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS -- >>JAN SMITH: I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME QUESTIONS OF YOU. MR. LaBOUR. >>STEVE LaBOUR: I ACTUALLY DO NOT HAVE A QUESTION, I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO FINISH YOUR REMARKS. BECAUSE WE ARE PLEASED TO HAVE A COMMISSIONER IN FRONT OF US. SO, PLEASE -- >>JAN SMITH: THAT'S MY SENTIMENT. >>STEVE LaBOUR: IF THE BOARD WOULD ACCEPT, PLEASE FINISH YOUR REMARKS. >>CHRIS HART: FIRST, WHETHER IT'S GOOD OR BAD, AND I APPRECIATE THIS, MR. LaBOUR. I REALLY DON'T HAVE PREPARED REMARKS. I'VE GOT SOME NOTES AND SOME THOUGHTS. IT SEEMS TO BE THE WAY THAT WORKS BEST FOR ME. WHEN I LOOKED AT OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT, I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT HISTORY IS THE BEST EXAMPLE FOR ME. THEN IN THE LAST 2,000 YEARS, THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE SUCCESSFUL ORGANIZATION THAT HAS NOT BEEN FORMED BY A PYRAMID. ONE KEY LEADER THAT EVERYBODY CAN TURN TO. WHETHER YOU LOOK AT CITY, COUNTY, STATE OF FLORIDA, OR OUR NATION. THERE'S ONE CHIEF EXECUTIVE AND THAT PERSON ELECTED. 72 I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE FUTURE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WE NEED AN ELECTED COUNTY MAYOR. THAT SIMPLY. COUNTY COMMISSION SERVES A VALUABLE PURPOSE. I THINK YOU SHOULD CONTINUE IT AS IT IS. PARTICULARLY FOCUS ON THE SERVICE DELIVERY, OUR LAND USE AND PLANNING, AND THOSE OTHER MERITED ISSUES. BUT UNLIKE SOME LEGISLATIVE ATTEMPTS IN THE PAST, THERE WILL BE NO MAYOR THAT WOULD HAVE OVERRIDE. I THINK WE'VE GOT A GOOD SYSTEM THAT IT GOES THROUGH A VERY PATENTED SYSTEM NOW THAT HAS CHECKS AND BALANCES. AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT BODY MAKING THAT RULING, YOU CAN THEN TAKE IT TO COURT. AND I THINK THAT GIVES OUR COMMUNITY THE NICE CHECKS AND BALANCES WE WOULD NEED SO THAT YOU WOULD ALLAY THE CONCERNS AND FEARS THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE THAT PEOPLE WOULD JUST GO TO A COUNTY MAYOR AND BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN CITY HALL. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN TALLAHASSEE. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN WASHINGTON. IT TELLS US THAT IT CAN WORK HERE. THE OTHER THING HAS TO DO WITH CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. INTERESTING THAT OUR SUPERVISOR OF ELECTION IS HERE AND I WAS GLAD TO HEAR HER CLOSING COMMENTS, BUT THERE ISN'T ONE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER THAT COULDN'T BE A PART OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT. AND AS -- AT LEAST, ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE CHARTER OFFICERS, 73 BECAUSE THERE IS NO DIRECT OVERSIGHT. IF THEY WANT TO APPEAL SOMETHING, THEY APPEAL IT RIGHT PAST THE VERY PEOPLE THAT FUND THEM TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA. THAT DOESN'T BRING IT CLOSE TO YOU, THE PEOPLE. AND THAT'S WHAT ACCOUNTABILITY AND CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE ALL ABOUT. SO THERE'S -- THERE ARE SEVERAL OPTIONS THERE. AND THOSE ARE THINGS I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO ON THAT. MY PURPOSE IS NOT HERE TO SAY THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, BUT TO OFFER THOUGHTS AND OBSERVATIONS TO THAT. WE HAVE OPTIONS OF MAKING THEM PART OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT OR HAVE THEM CHARTER OFFICERS. IN EITHER CASE, IT GIVES MORE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PEOPLE. THERE IS CURRENTLY NO OVERSIGHT AND NOBODY SITTING IN