CAPTIONING JUNE 21, 2007 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMISSION ***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the ***following meeting. It should be used for informational ***purposes only. This document has not been edited; ***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words ***that did not translate. >>BRIAN BLAIR: GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO OUR JUNE 21st ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMISSION MEETING, AND IF YOU'D PLEASE RISE FOR THE INVOCATION AND THE PLEDGE. [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE] HEAVENLY FATHER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS DAY. FATHER, WE PRAY FOR ALL THOSE THAT ARE IN HARM'S WAY RIGHT NOW FIGHTING FOR OUR PROTECTION. PLEASE KEEP THEM SAFE, COMFORT THEIR FAMILIES, KEEP THOSE SAFE THAT ARE FIGHTING FOR US HERE LOCALLY AS WELL, FATHER, AND WE PRAY FOR ALL THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN WOUNDED IN ACTION. FATHER, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ONE OF THE BEST ENVIRONMENTS IN THE NATION. THANK YOU FOR THE STAFF OF EPC, FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT FIGHT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. I THANK YOU FOR MY COLLEAGUES, FATHER. THEY GET UP EVERY MORNING AND TRY TO MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE IN THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. FATHER, WE ARE JUST GRATEFUL FOR ALL THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US, AND WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL GIVE US THE WISDOM, THE KNOWLEDGE, AND THE UNDERSTANDING TO BALANCE THE ENVIRONMENT, THE EFFICIENCIES, AND THE JOB AT HAND. FATHER, THANK YOU SO MUCH. IN YOUR NAME WE PRAY. AMEN. OKAY. WITH THAT SAID, WE NEED APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO MOVE, MR. CHAIRMAN. >>MARK SHARPE: SECOND. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. ROSE -- COMMISSIONER FERLITA, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SHARPE. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTES. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. MOTION CARRIED 6-0. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. THEN, WE HAVE TO ALSO -- WE NEED -- ANYBODY WANT TO PULL ANYTHING FROM CONSENT OR APPROVE CONSENT? >> [INAUDIBLE] >>BRIAN BLAIR: OH, YEAH. THAT'S WHAT WE VOTED ON. OKAY. THE AGENDA, CHANGES TO THE AGENDAS. >>RICK GARRITY: COMMISSIONER, THERE ARE NO CHANGES THAT WE KNOW OF. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THERE WERE NO CHANGES. OKAY. AND CITIZENS, LAST WEEK -- I HAVE SEVERAL CITIZENS THAT HAVE SIGNED UP. WE HAD PEOPLE HERE FROM ALL OVER THE -- DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE TRAVELED HERE FROM SWFWMD, DEP, AND WE WOUND UP NOT BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY GET INTO THE FUNCTION OF OUR MEETING, AND SO TODAY I WOULD PREFER THAT THE FIRST CITIZEN COMMENTS WOULD BE DIRECTED TO -- TO AIR AND TO NOISE, AND ANYTHING THAT IS DIRECTED TOWARDS THE WETLANDS WE'LL TAKE AFTERWARDS, JUST TO ASSURE THAT WHAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK DOESN'T HAVE THIS WEEK, SO DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT? OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. FIRST PERSON SIGNED UP IS PHIL COMPTON. AND THEN RICH BROWN. >> GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS. >>BRIAN BLAIR: WELCOME. >> MY COMMENTS DO RELATE TO ITEMS 5 AND ITEMS 8 ON YOUR AGENDA. WOULD YOU TAKE THOSE COMMENTS AT THIS TIME, SIR? >>BRIAN BLAIR: WE PREFER THAT -- AGAIN, IF WE DO THAT, WE'RE INTO THE GOING TO HAVE -- WE'RE GOING TO RUN OUT OF TIME AGAIN, AND NOBODY'S GOING TO GET TO SPEAK. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK -- WE'VE GOT SOME BEAUTIFUL YOUNG LADIES WHO HAVE COME TO ACCEPT AWARDS ON CLEAN AIR SINCE IT'S "CLEAN AIR MONTH," BUT OTHER -- IF IT'S WETLAND RELATED, AND I SEE THAT IT IS, I'D PREFER THAT YOU HELD THOSE COMMENTS UNTIL RIGHT AFTER THE MEETING. >> AFTER THE MEETING? >>BRIAN BLAIR: YES. WE'LL TAKE -- >> I WILL CONTINUE TO TAKE MY TIME AND WAIT. >>RICHARD TSCHANTZ: COMMISSIONER, HE WAS WANTING TO COMMENT ON ITEM 8, WHICH IS THE MINIMUM FLOWS AND LEVELS. >>BRIAN BLAIR: YES. WOULD YOU PLEASE -- YOU COULD ABSOLUTELY DO THAT. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING. I'M PHIL COMPTON, AND I'M HERE AS THE CHAIR OF THE FRIENDS OF THE RIVER, WHICH IS THE CITIZEN GROUP WHICH HAS BEEN TALKING TO THOUSANDS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY RESIDENTS FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS, AND IN DOING SO, WE'VE COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYONE IN OUR COMMUNITY VALUES OUR HILLSBOROUGH RIVER, AND THE MAIN REASON FOR ITS NEED TO BE RESTORED IS BECAUSE IT IS THE NURSERY FOR THE ENTIRE TAMPA BAY AREA, SO THIS IS NOT A CITY ISSUE, THIS IS NOT A BACKYARD ISSUE. WHAT COMMISSIONERS SHARPE AND COMMISSIONERS HIGGINBOTHAM HAVE BEFORE THEM IS A CHALLENGE AT TAMPA BAY WATER TO COME UP WITH A WAY OF MERGING THE CONCEPT OF ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP WITH THE NEED TO PROVIDE ENOUGH WATER FOR OUR ENTIRE REGION. TAMPA BAY WATER WILL SOON BE TAKING 85 MILLION GALLONS A DAY FROM THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER BASIN. WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT -- ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES OF ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP IS YOU DON'T GET TO TAKE EVERYTHING, THAT YOU NEED TO RESERVE AND CONSERVE -- RESERVE SOME PORTION OF THE WATER -- OF THE RESOURCES FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. IN THE CASE OF THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER, THERE IS A VERY PRECISE KNOWLEDGE, VERY DEPTH -- IN-DEPTH KNOWLEDGE NOW OF HOW MUCH WATER THIS RIVER NEEDS TO FUNCTION AS THE TAMPA BAY REGION'S NURSERY, AND WE BELIEVE THAT TAMPA BAY WATER HAS A RESPONSIBILITY, ALONG WITH THE CITY, ALONG WITH THE OTHER PLAYERS HERE, TO PROVIDE THE MINIMAL AMOUNT OF WATER, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO MEET WITH YOU IN THE NEAR FUTURE AND WORK THROUGH THIS WITH YOU AS CITIZENS WHO UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE BELIEVE ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED ISSUE, BUT WE BELIEVE WE CAN COME UP WITH A SOLUTION WORKING TOGETHER THAT WILL ALLOW US TO MOVE FORWARD TOWARDS RESTORING THIS VERY VALUABLE NATURAL RESOURCE FOR OUR ENTIRE TAMPA BAY REGION. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: MR. COMPTON, I'D LIKE TO COMPLIMENT YOU AND THE FRIENDS OF THE RIVER. YOU GUYS HAVE DONE AN OUTSTANDING JOB, AND I HAD ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT SOMEHOW GETTING EVERYBODY TOGETHER FOR A WATER SUMMIT BECAUSE YOU SAID IT -- YOU NAILED IT RIGHT ON THE MONEY, AND I DON'T NEED TO REPEAT IT, BUT THAT WAS A GREAT, ELOQUENT -- YOU SAID THAT AS ELOQUENTLY AS ANYBODY POSSIBLY COULD HAVE, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >>BRIAN BLAIR: RICH BROWN. >> I'LL HOLD MY COMMENTS UNTIL THE WETLANDS PORTION. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, RICH. AND TOM KOULIANOS. IS TOM KRUMREICH. >> YOU PRONOUNCE THAT ABOUT AS WELL AS ANYBODY DOES. THE CURSE OF THE NAMES. I'M TOM KRUMREICH. I'M HERE TO ADDRESS THE HILLSBOROUGH MINIMUM FLOW ISSUE, ITEM 8. I'VE BEEN A PHONE CANVASSER AND VOLUNTEER COMMUNITY REPRESENTATIVE FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CONSUMER GROUPS FOR NEARLY 13 YEARS, STARTING IN INDIANA WITH CITIZENS ACTION COALITION FOR FIVE YEARS AND HERE IN TAMPA WITH FCAN, FLORIDA CONSUMER ACTION NETWORK, FOR ABOUT EIGHT YEARS, AND THE ISSUE OF RESTORING THE ESTUARY FUNCTION OF THE LOWER HILLSBOROUGH RIVER IS THE ONLY ISSUE IN ALL THOSE YEARS WHERE I HAVE NOT HAD ONE PERSON DISAGREE WITH OUR POSITION. THE BULK OF FCAN'S 30 TO 40,000 MEMBERS LIVE IN THE TAMPA BAY AREA, SO THROUGH OUR PHONE CANVASSING, WHICH WE DO SIX DAYS A WEEK, WE REACH HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN AREAS AFFECTED BY THE HEALTH OF THE TAMPA BAY ECOSYSTEM, WHICH IS THE -- THE HEALTH OF WHICH IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE ESTUARY FUNCTION OF THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER. SO THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR US. AND I THINK IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT THAT NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER DISAGREED -- ANYBODY I'VE TALKED TO -- I'VE TALKED TO, OVER THE YEARS, HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS, NOT ONLY ON THE PHONE BUT AT VARIOUS GATHERINGS AND PLACES WHERE I'VE DONE A COMMITTEE REPRESENTATION ROLE, PUT THAT HAT ON, SO WE ARE IN ACCORD WITH THE AGREEMENT THAT HAS BEEN STRUCK BETWEEN FRIENDS OF THE RIVER, SWFWMD, AND THE CITY OF TAMPA TO PROVIDE 20 CUBIC FEET PER MINUTE MINIMUM FLOW AND THEN 24 DURING APRIL, MAY, AND JUNE TO FACILITATE THE SPAWNING, THE ESTUARY FUNCTION OF THE RIVER. IT'S A VERY CRITICAL ISSUE, AND WE ARE REALLY CONCERNED THAT THIS THING BE DONE RIGHT, YOU KNOW. WE'RE -- THE BAY AREA IS EMPHASIZING THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER, THE RIVERWALK, AND SO BOTH FROM AN ECONOMIC AND AESTHETIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL STANDPOINT, THIS IS A REALLY CRITICAL ISSUE. WE REALLY NEED TO COME TOGETHER ON THIS COMPROMISE THAT WE'VE WORKED OUT, SO I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. KRUMREICH. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: SIR, BECAUSE YOU'RE HERE TODAY -- AND I WANT TO TELL YOU THIS, BOARD MEMBERS. WHEN TAMPA BAY WATER WAS BEING FORMED, WHAT WE SAID AS A GROUP, A VERY STRONG GROUP, IS THAT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WAS GOING TO BE THE DONOR COUNTY. THAT'S WHAT IT ENDED UP BEING. AND NOW ALL OF THAT IS NOW COMING TO FRUITION THAT ALL THESE ALTERNATIVE RESOURCES THAT WE TRIED TO GET IN THE ENTIRE REGION NEVER -- AND DR. GARRITY, YOU KNOW THIS. THE BRACKISH STUFF OVER THERE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, IT ALL KEPT FOCUSING ON HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY BEING THAT DONOR COUNTY. YOU'RE SEEING THE RIVER NOW, BUT WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING CONE RANCH AND OTHER GROUNDWATER -- THE CHEAPEST WATER IS WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO. >> UH-HUH. >>JIM NORMAN: AND THAT'S OUR -- THAT'S ALL OF OUR CHALLENGES, IT'S GOING TO BE ALL OF OUR CHALLENGES -- >> SURE. >>JIM NORMAN: -- IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GO AFTER THE CHEAP WATER. >> RIGHT. >>JIM NORMAN: AND THE PEOPLE ARE NOW -- A LOT OF FOLKS ARE NOW CATCHING ON THAT EVERYTHING THIS BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SAID WHEN TAMPA BAY WATER WAS FORMED IS NOW COMING TO PASS, AND, YES, WE CAN -- WE FORMED WATER TEAMS, WE DID ALL KIND OF THINGS TO SHOW AND FIGHT OUR CAUSE, BUT IT'S JUST COMING AROUND. THE MORE PRESSURE IS GOING TO BE ON CHEAP WATER, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE FIGHTING, AND I APPLAUD YOU FOR IT, BUT I'M JUST TELLING YOU, WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING THIS FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT'S REALLY JUST -- IT'S COMING ABOUT NOW. SO -- >> BUT I SEE NO CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT I'M SAYING AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I THINK -- >>JIM NORMAN: OH, NO, NO, NO. THE REALITIES ARE HITTING IN. >> WHEN GASOLINE FINALLY GOT TO $3 A GALLON, ALL OF A SUDDEN PEOPLE STARTED GETTING -- >>JIM NORMAN: I WISH THIS ROOM WOULD HAVE BEEN FULL, THOUGH, DEFENDING OUR POSITION. >> [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] THIS IS MY OPINION. I THINK WE SHOULDN'T HAVE SUCH CHEAP WATER, THAT WE'RE DOING A DISSERVICE TO THE ENVIRONMENT. >>JIM NORMAN: SIR -- SIR, YOU'RE MISUNDERSTANDING. [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] CHEAP WATER IS WHAT THEY -- HOW THEY CAN OBTAIN IT. THAT'S THE CHEAP WATER I'M TALKING ABOUT. GROUNDWATER IS CHEAP WATER. RIVER WATER IS CHEAP WATER. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUILD A DESAL AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUILD ALL THINGS THAT ARE MORE COSTLY PER VOLUME. >> UH-HUH. >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT CHEAP WATER. IT'S EASIER TO GET THIS TYPE WATER THAN -- AND THEN PUT IT INTO THE PIPES. >> UH-HUH. >>JIM NORMAN: WE BELIEVE -- WE BELIEVE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT -- AND IN A SENSE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER STEWARDSHIP FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT -- LIKE THE RESERVOIRS, THEY WENT FORWARD WITH THAT, THE DESALS NEVER WORKED OUT. THAT'S THE MORE COSTLY WATER THAT YOU CAN ATTEMPT TO GAIN. >> SURE. >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S THE CHEAP WATER I'M TALKING ABOUT, SO I WANTED TO CLARIFY IT. >> AND, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE THROWING AWAY HALF THAT WATER ON OUR LAWNS WHEN WE COULD DO LIKE ST. PETERSBURG, PINELLAS COUNTY DID, AND DO THE RECLAIMED WATER RIGHT, GIVE PEOPLE POSITIVE INCENTIVES TO DO IT, SO I DON'T SEE ANY CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE. THEY'RE COMPATIBLE. THEY -- >>JIM NORMAN: SIR, THE ROOM WASN'T FULL THEN. >> THE ECONOMICS ARE COMPATIBLE, SO -- >>JIM NORMAN: SIR, THE ROOM WASN'T FULL THEN WHEN WE TRIED TO FIGHT HILLSBOROUGH'S CAUSE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, MR. KRUMREICH. MS. SWEET, COULD YOU PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU PUT THE THREE-MINUTE BUZZER ON. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THERE ARE SOME OTHER PEOPLE HERE TO SPEAK ON THE WETLANDS. I'LL TELL YOU, I THINK WHAT WOULD BE FAIR, IF YOU SPOKE LAST WEEK, JUST HOLD YOUR COMMENTS FOR AFTERWARDS, BUT IF YOU DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO SPEAK, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND SPEAK. I NOTICE STEVE ALLISON. HE SPOKE LAST WEEK, BARBARA FERNANDEZ, VIVIAN BACCA, MARIELLA SMITH, BUT IF YOU CARE TO SPEAK TO ANY OTHER ITEM ON THE AGENDA, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO. SO THE NEXT PERSON WOULD BE -- EXCUSE ME -- PAM PRYSNER. >> CAN I SPEAK ON THE WETLANDS? >>BRIAN BLAIR: DID YOU SPEAK LAST WEEK? >> NO. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THEN YOU CAN COME UP. GO AHEAD. >> HI. PAM PRYSNER, 18335 LITHIA TOWN ROAD IN LITHIA. I'M REALLY NOT PREPARED TO SPEAK. I DO KNOW FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN HEARING AND READING THAT THE WETLANDS PORTION OF THE EPC IS IN DANGER OF BEING -- HAVING THEIR POWERS REDUCED OR CUT, AND THAT WOULD BE REALLY DETRIMENTAL, I THINK, TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. YOU KNOW, WE ALL KNOW WATER IS THE MOST PRECIOUS THING, AND WITH ALL THE DEVELOPMENT GOING ON, THE STRAINS IT PUTS ON OUR WATER AND THE DROUGHT AND ALL THAT, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A BAD TIME TO START REDUCING OUR INFLUENCE AND OUR SAY AND INPUT OVER WETLANDS, SO THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PAM. JOHN -- I'M SORRY, PLEASE FORGIVE ME -- HENDERSHOT. I HOPE I DID THAT OKAY. SOMEWHERE CLOSE? WELCOME. >> THANK YOU. JUST BRIEFLY REGARDING THE WETLANDS, THE NATURAL WETLANDS FILTER OUT OUR MAN-MADE BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL POLLUTANTS FROM THE WATER THAT EVENTUALLY FLOWS INTO THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER, TAMPA BAY, THE GULF, AND THE OCEAN. THE EPC RULES AND PROCEDURES, I BELIEVE, ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN PROTECTING OUR WETLANDS AND THE QUALITY OF OUR DRINKING WATER SUPPLIES. WE NEED THE EPC TO HELP PRESERVE OUR WETLANDS AND OUR DRINKING WATER QUALITY. REGARDING THE MINIMUM FLOW, ABOUT A CENTURY AGO, WE BUILT A DAM IN THE MIDDLE OF HILLSBOROUGH RIVER, WHICH HAD AN ADVERSE IMPACT ON THE ECOLOGY, AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE BUILT BUILDINGS, PAVEMENTS, HUMANS, WE'VE GOT CARS ALL CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEGRADATION OF THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER. WE'VE TREATED THE PLANTS AND ANIMALS THAT ARE DEPENDENT ON THAT MIX OF FRESH AND SALTWATER AS IF THEY WERE UNIMPORTANT, IRRELEVANT, AS IF THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS WHAT CERTAIN PEOPLE WANT, AND THE ENVIRONMENT BE DAMNED, PUN UNINTENDED, OF COURSE. THE MINIMUM FLOW CONCEPT IS A VAST IMPROVEMENT OVER THE STATUS QUO OF MANY RECENT DECADES WHEN NO WATER FLOWED OVER THE DAM FOR OVER HALF THE YEAR OFTENTIMES. RESTORING THAT MINIMUM FLOW TO 20 TO 24 CFS IS THE LEAST THAT WE CAN DO FOR THE PARTIAL RECOVERY OF THE ESTUARY BELOW THE DAM. I BELIEVE THAT IT'S OUR MORAL OBLIGATION AS STEWARDS OF GOD'S CREATION TO RENEW PARTIALLY THAT ESTUARY. THERE ARE CERTAIN PROBLEMS WITH ELEMENTS BEING CONSIDERED IN THAT PLAN. IT'S MY BELIEF THAT THE MINIMUM FLOWS SHOULD COME STRAIGHT FROM ITS NATURAL SOURCE, THE UPPER HILLSBOROUGH, AND NOT PLACES LIKE SULPHUR SPRINGS. FIRST OF ALL, SULPHUR SPRINGS HAS SLIGHTLY HIGHER SALT CONTENT THAN THE WATER BELOW THE DAM, AND SECONDLY, SULPHUR SPRINGS ALREADY FLOWS INTO THE HILLSBOROUGH RIVER A COUPLE OF MILES DOWNSTREAM FROM THE DAM. THAT'S A SHELL GAME AND NOT THE KIND OF GAME THAT PLAYS FAIR WITH THE SHELLFISH AND OTHER ESTUARINE LIFE DOWNRIVER FROM SULPHUR SPRINGS. OUR DRINKING WATER MIGHT COST A FEW CENTS MORE PER GALLON IF WE GET SOME OF IT FROM OTHER SOURCES, BUT ALL THE WILDLIFE IN THE LOWER HILLSBOROUGH RIVER DESERVES TO HAVE A PORTION OF THAT NATURAL FLOW RESTORED. ALSO, TO HELP ACHIEVE THE MINIMUM FLOW GOALS, WE NEED TO TAKE STRONG STEPS FORWARD TOWARD WATER CONSERVATION, AND SECONDLY, WE NEED TO REALLY SLOW DOWN NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS UNTIL WE FIND WATER SOURCES THAT ARE NOT GOING TO ADVERSELY IMPACT ON THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. HENDERSHOT. I APPRECIATE IT. I'LL CALL OUT SOME NAMES. AGAIN, IF YOU SPOKE LAST WEEK, PLEASE HOLD YOUR COMMENTS UNTIL AFTER THE MEETING. WHO DO WE HAVE NEXT? WE HAVE -- I'LL NAME THE NAMES, AND IF YOU HAVE, PLEASE WAIT. MARIELLA SMITH, YOU SPOKE. VIVIAN BACCA, I BELIEVE YOU SPOKE. BARBARA FERNANDEZ. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU REALIZE I HAVE YOUR NAMES. WELCOME, BARBARA, MS. FERNANDEZ. >> GOOD MORNING. >>BRIAN BLAIR: GOOD MORNING. >> I'M A RESIDENT OF SOUTH BRANDON. >>BRIAN BLAIR: COULD YOU HOLD ON. THERE YOU GO. >> OKAY. I'M A RESIDENT OF SOUTH BRANDON, AND ADJOINING MY PROPERTY IN THE BACK IS A VERY SMALL WETLAND. IN FEBRUARY OF '06, I WAS QUITE ILL ON A SATURDAY, BUT I KEPT HEARING SOME LARGE MACHINERY GOING AND GOING AND GOING. FINALLY, AFTER A COUPLE OF HOURS, I GOT UP AND LOOKED TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND THERE WAS TWO HUGE MACHINERIES ACTUALLY MULCHING THE WETLAND. I CALLED THE EPC NUMBER, NOT REALLY EXPECTING TO GET ANYONE ON A SATURDAY, BUT BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THEY WERE OUT THERE WITHIN 20 MINUTES AND PUT A STOP TO THE MULCHING OF THIS WETLAND. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT A STATE AGENCY WOULD HAVE ACTED AS QUICKLY AS OUR LOCAL COUNTY DID, AND BEING -- ADJOINING THIS WETLAND AND SEEING ALL OF THE WILDLIFE THAT DEPENDS ON IT, WE MUST PROTECT OUR WETLANDS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ASSETS THAT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY HAS, AND WE MUST DO THIS. THIS COMMISSION MUST TAKE CARE OF WHAT WE HAVE AND NOT -- NOT LET IT GO BY THE WAYSIDE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. FERNANDEZ. BEV GRIFFITHS. DID YOU SPEAK LAST WEEK, BEV? SHE DID? BEV, DID YOU SPEAK LAST WEEK ON THE WETLANDS? >> LAST WEEK. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I MEAN -- I'M SORRY, LAST MEETING. EXCUSE ME. >> [INAUDIBLE] >>BRIAN BLAIR: I BELIEVE YOU'RE IN THE RECORD AS SPEAKING. >> I WAS. [INAUDIBLE] >>BRIAN BLAIR: YOU'RE GOING TO SPEAK AFTER. WE'RE GOING TO LET THE NEW PEOPLE SPEAK SO WE CAN GET EVERYTHING FILLED IN. WE'VE GOT A SHORT TIME FRAME HERE. STEVEN DIBBS, DID YOU SPEAK LAST WEEK -- OR I'M SORRY, LAST MEETING, MR. DIBBS? IS MR. DIBBS HERE? YES. I'M SORRY, YOU CANNOT SPEAK UNTIL AFTERWARDS. YOU CAN SPEAK AFTERWARDS. ALL RIGHT. SO FROM HERE WE'LL MOVE TO DAVID JELLERSON AND THE CITIZENS ADVISORY. I'M SORRY. WELL, GO AHEAD. I'LL GET HER UP. >> GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS. DAVID JELLERSON, CHAIR OF THE CITIZENS ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THE COMMITTEE'S PREPARING NOW TO REVIEW APPLICATIONS FOR POLLUTION RECOVERY FUND GRANTS. THIS YEAR THERE'S APPROXIMATELY $760,000 IN THE FUND. THE -- WE RECEIVED 11 APPLICATIONS REQUESTING A TOTAL OF NEARLY $1.1 MILLION. THE COMMITTEE WILL SPEND THE NEXT FEW MEETINGS LISTENING TO PRESENTATIONS BY THE APPLICANTS AND EVALUATING THE RELATIVE MERITS OF THE PROJECTS AND DEVELOPING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS COMMISSION. IN PREPARATION FOR THE PROCESS, ON JUNE 4th, THE COMMITTEE CONDUCTED A HALF-DAY TOUR OF SEVERAL SITES THAT HAVE BENEFITED FROM PAST POLLUTION RECOVERY FUND GRANT AWARDS. THE PURPOSE OF THE FIELD VISIT WAS TO HELP THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW FUNDED PROJECTS HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED AND HOW THEY HAVE FARED AFTER COMPLETION. IN A FEW MONTHS, WE'LL BE BRINGING TO THIS COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS FOR GRANT AWARDS, AND OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE CONFIDENT THAT ALL PROJECTS HAVE BEEN FAIRLY EVALUATED TO DETERMINE THAT THOSE THAT PROVIDE REAL AND LASTING BENEFITS TO THE CITIZENS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ARE CONSIDERED. IN ADVANCE OF THE PROJECT REVIEWS, I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL THE APPLICANTS FOR THEIR PROPOSALS, WHICH ARE ALL POSTED ON THE EPC WEB SITE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. JELLERSON? THANK YOU, DAVID. YOU ALWAYS DO A GREAT JOB. WE APPRECIATE YOU VERY, VERY MUCH. DOC, DID YOU HAVE -- >>RICK GARRITY: COMMISSIONER, THE NEXT ITEM WILL BE INTRODUCED BY BARBARA MOTTE, AND IT'S TIME FOR CLEAN AIR MONTH, THE PHOTOGRAPHY AWARDS, AND WE HAVE -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: EXCUSE ME ONE SECOND. SIR. >> PARDON ME, MR. CHAIRMAN. I'M LATE THIS MORNING. I'M JUST ASKING FOR SOME DIRECTION. I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE WETLANDS ISSUE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: DID YOU SPEAK LAST WEEK? >> NO, I'VE NEVER SPOKEN ON IT BEFORE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I'M SORRY, BARBARA. DO YOU MIND WAITING FOR A SECOND? YOUR NAME, PLEASE, FOR THE RECORD. >> MY NAME IS JOHN GRANDOFF, SUITE 3700, BANK OF AMERICA PLAZA. I'M AN ATTORNEY AT LAW. I PRACTICE IN SEVERAL JURISDICTIONS, INCLUDING HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, PINELLAS, PASCO, AND MANATEE, AND I AM IN SUPPORT OF THE MOTION OR THE DISCUSSION TO ELIMINATE THE WETLANDS JURISDICTION FOR THE EPC FOR SEVERAL REASONS. BASED UPON MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THE EPC, I FIND THAT THE REGULATION'S EXTREMELY DUPLICATIVE AND UNNECESSARY, IN ORDER TO PRESERVE WETLANDS THAT BOUNTIFUL, PLENTIFUL JURISDICTION REMAINS WITH SWFWMD AND WITH THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. I THINK THE SWFWMD RULE -- THAT THE EPC RULE ONLY SERVES TO INCREASE THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT ANY TANGIBLE BENEFIT TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR TO PERSONAL -- OR TO CERTAIN PROJECTS. I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY DANGER WILL RESULT FROM THE REPEAL OF THE RULE. WETLANDS WILL STILL BE PROTECTED, AS THEY ARE PROTECTED BY 66 OTHER COUNTIES IN THIS -- IN THIS FINE STATE OF OURS, AND I ASK THAT YOU PASS THIS PROPOSAL TO MAKE THE PROCESS MUCH MORE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, MR. GRANDOFF. I ALSO HAVE A DARLENE HALL. DARLENE, DID YOU SPEAK -- I'M SORRY. THIS CAME IN AT THE LAST MINUTE. DID YOU SPEAK AT THE LAST MEETING, DARLENE, ON THE WETLANDS? >> YES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OH, YOU DID? OKAY. YOU CAN SPEAK AFTER. LAST CHANCE, ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO SPEAK THAT DIDN'T SPEAK LAST TIME. >> YES. CAN I HOLD MY THREE MINUTES-[INAUDIBLE] >>BRIAN BLAIR: PARDON ME? >> I HELD THREE MINUTES FROM EARLIER TO SPEAK ON THE WETLANDS. IS THIS THE LAST CHANCE TO SPEAK ON WETLANDS? >>BRIAN BLAIR: NO, WE'LL SPEAK LATER IF YOU SPOKE AT THE LAST MEETING. >> I DID NOT SPEAK AT THE LAST MEETING. >>BRIAN BLAIR: DID YOU SIGN UP? >> NO, SIR, I DIDN'T. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THAT'S ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD. WE'LL MAKE IT QUICK. LAST ONE. STATE YOUR NAME, PLEASE, FOR THE RECORD. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. RICH BROWN, FRIENDS OF THE RIVER SIERRA CLUB AND THE MODERATE WING OF GREENPEACE. [LAUGHTER] >>BRIAN BLAIR: IS THERE ONE? >> I'VE BEEN WORKING FOR SEVEN, ALMOST EIGHT YEARS NOW, ON MINIMUM FLOWS AND WETLANDS ISSUES, BEEN WORKING WITH THE SCIENTISTS FROM TAMPA BAY WATER, FROM SWFWMD, AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE FIND THAT ARE THE MOST -- THE PEOPLE THAT FOLLOW THE SCIENCE BEST ARE YOUR EPC STAFF. SOMETIMES EPC AND SWFWMD CAN GET CAUGHT IN HAVING AN AGENDA THAT THEY HAVE TO SUPPORT, AND THROUGH ALL SORTS OF ISSUES, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THE FOLKS ON THE OUTSIDE THAT SPEAK TO SCIENCE ARE YOUR FOLKS, THE EPC STAFF, BOTH ON MINIMUM FLOWS AND WETLANDS. MY OPINION IS TO DROP YOUR OVERSIGHT OF WETLANDS IS LIKE SOMEBODY -- HAVING SOMEBODY ELSE RAISE YOUR CHILDREN. YOU WANT TO DO THE BEST THING FOR THE COUNTY SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO PRAY THAT THE WETLANDS GET TAKEN CARE OF. I WOULD KEEP THAT FUNCTION AT THE EPC. THERE'S NO REASON WHY HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CAN'T BE BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE COUNTY. THANK YOU, SIR. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, MR. BROWN. [APPLAUSE] OKAY. NEXT WE ARE GOING TO -- PARDON ME? >> I DID WANT TO COMMENT ON THE WETLANDS ISSUE, IF I COULD, PLEASE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: YOU SPOKE -- >> I WAS -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: PARDON ME? YOU ALREADY SPOKE. >> I SPOKE TO THE MINIMUM FLOW ISSUE BUT NOT THE WETLANDS, WHICH I LISTED BOTH AS MY AREAS OF CONCERN. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. WE'LL GIVE HIM ONE MINUTE. >> ONE MINUTE. JUST REAL QUICKLY, THE PRIMARY FORCE THAT DRIVES OUR LOCAL ECONOMY IS OUR FLORIDAN ENVIRONMENT, AND THE QUESTION IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS IS WHERE ARE THOSE BABY BOOMERS GOING TO RETIRES? ARE THEY GOING TO COME HERE? THEY HAD MORE OPTIONS THAN THE PREVIOUS GENERATIONS OF RETIREES DID, AND THEY'RE GOING TO COME HERE IF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY OFFERS A NATURAL ENVIRONMENT THAT HAS BEEN PRESERVED WHILE PERMITTING THE DEVELOPMENT OF HOMES AND RETAIL DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY ALSO DESIRE. WE HAVE TO HAVE BOTH. WE CANNOT MAKE OUR ECONOMY WORK BY SACRIFICING ONE FOR THE OTHER. EVERY ACRE OF WETLANDS IS ESSENTIAL, NOT ONLY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT BUT ALSO FOR THE VALUE IT ADDS TO ANY DEVELOPMENT. THERE ARE NEW APPROACHES. THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS EMERGING THAT WILL ALLOW US TO PRESERVE OUR WETLANDS WHILE EXPANDING ALSO THE AMOUNT OF DEVELOPABLE LAND. I'M A PARTNER IN ONE SUCH INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS HERE THAT'S LOCATED IN TAMPA BAY, AND WE NEED THE EXPERT ASSISTANCE OF THE EPC STAFF TO WORK WITH US AND THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY TO MAKE THIS POSSIBLE. THEIR EFFORTS ARE NOT DUPLICATIVE, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE NEEDED MORE IN THE FUTURE TO HELP US DEVISE WAYS TO DEVELOP SO OUR ECONOMY MOVES FORWARD. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: FOR THE RECORD THAT WAS PHIL COMPTON, AND NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO SOME FUN STUFF. THIS IS GOING TO BE COOL. >> COMMISSIONER BLAIR, EXCUSE ME, I DID NOT SPEAK THE LAST TIME. >>BRIAN BLAIR: PARDON ME? >> I DID NOT SPEAK AT THE LAST MEETING. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I ASKED -- OKAY. GO AHEAD. >> LET ME COME. I'LL ADDRESS SOMETHING ELSE, SIR. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE CONSTANT CHANGING OF A PROCEDURE AND THE PROCESS OF MEETINGS IS VERY CONFUSING FOR EVERYBODY. IT'S TAKING MORE TIME TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE NOW THAN IT WOULD HAVE JUST TO LET PEOPLE COME UP AND SPEAK. IT GIVES THE PERCEPTION TO THE PUBLIC THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY, AND THAT'S VERY FRUSTRATING TO US. NOW, I'M USING MY TIME FOR THIS INSTEAD OF BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. I'M ASKING YOU AS A BOARD TO PLEASE FOLLOW PROCEDURES AND POLICIES SO THAT WE CAN ALL KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND WHEN TO EXPECT IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >>BRIAN BLAIR: LET ME -- FOR THE RECORD -- FOR THE RECORD, LET ME CLARIFY WHAT MS. FLOTT JUST SPOKE TO. AT THE LAST MEETING WE HAD ALMOST -- WHAT WAS IT, AN HOUR AND 40 MINUTES OF PUBLIC COMMENT, USED UP ALMOST -- SOMEWHERE IN THAT AREA. WE USED UP ALMOST THE ENTIRE MEETING WITH PUBLIC COMMENT. I STATED AT THE MEETING THAT THERE WOULD BE NO MORE PUBLIC COMMENT. I WAS NICE ENOUGH TO SAY IF YOU WERE NOT HERE AT THE LAST MEETING THAT YOU COULD SPEAK TO THE WETLANDS, SO I BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS MORE THAN FAIR. OKAY. LET'S GO AHEAD -- AND, BY THE WAY, YOU CAN SPEAK AFTERWARDS AS WELL. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR GUESTS THAT HAVE COME HERE FROM ALL AROUND GET TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. I'M GOING TO COME DOWN WITH BARBARA MOTTE. >>BARBARA MOTTE: GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS. BARBARA MOTTE, EPC STAFF. THIS IS ALWAYS A GREAT HIGHLIGHT EACH YEAR FOR ME TO COME IN FRONT OF YOU WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT SOME SPECIAL RECOGNITION TO SOME OF THE MOST OUTSTANDING ARTISTS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND TODAY WE HAVE COMMISSIONER BLAIR HERE WITH SOME CERTIFICATES AND SAVINGS BONDS FOR FOUR VERY TALENTED STUDENTS HERE, AND WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY, I'LL HAND THIS OVER TO COMMISSIONER BLAIR. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU. IT IS OUR GREAT PLEASURE TO -- IT IS OUR GREAT PLEASURE TO HAVE WITH US TODAY THE FINALISTS IN EPC'S 2007 "CLEARING THE AIR" PHOTOGRAPHY COMPETITION PROMOTING MAY AS "CLEAN AIR MONTH" IN TAMPA BAY. THE GOAL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST WAS TO INSPIRE THE IMAGINATION OF YOUNG ARTISTS TO CREATE ENVIRONMENTAL AWARENESS THROUGH THE LENS OF THEIR CAMERA. IN ITS SIXTH YEAR, THE COMPETITION WAS A HUGE SUCCESS, RECEIVING MORE THAN 100 PIECES OF OUTSTANDING, THOUGHT- PROVOKING PHOTOGRAPHERS FROM HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL ARTISTS. THE EPC IS PLEASED TO PRESENT THE PUBLIC AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY SELECTED PIECES OF ARTWORK FROM THESE TALENTED ARTISTS IN THE PHOTOGRAPHIC ESSAY, "CLEARING THE AIR." NOW THROUGH AUGUST 2007 AT THE ROGER P. STEWART CENTER. AND I BELIEVE THE ADDRESS IS THERE. NOW, WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY, IT'S MY PLEASURE TO PRESENT THE FOLLOWING FOUR STUDENTS WITH A CERTIFICATE OF ACHIEVEMENT AND A U.S. SAVINGS BOND FOR THEIR EXCELLENCE IN ENVIRONMENTAL PHOTOGRAPHY. OKAY. GO TO -- OUR THIRD PLACE WINNER IS JORDAN HAVILAND. HE'S AN 11th GRADER AT WHARTON HIGH SCHOOL, AND HIS ART IS CALLED "EVERYTHING IS PEACEFUL," AND WITHOUT FURTHER ADIEU, JORDAN. I BELIEVE -- [APPLAUSE] IF YOU'D STAY WITH ME, JORDAN, I'D LIKE YOU TO SAY SOMETHING. I BELIEVE YOUR MOM IS HERE AND YOUR TEACHER, MS. DANA WARNER. WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE RECOGNIZED? I'D LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR RAISING SUCH A NICE, YOUNG LADY. [APPLAUSE] PLEASE. >> I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO MY TEACHER AND FOR GETTING THIS OPPORTUNITY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHAT YOU'RE DEPICTING HERE? >> OH, WELL, WHEN I WAS TAKING IT, I WAS TRYING TO FOCUS MOSTLY ON POSITIVE THINGS AND GET ACROSS THAT EVERYTHING'S -- OH. I JUST WANTED TO SHOW THE POSITIVE SIDE OF, YOU KNOW, THE ENVIRONMENT AND ALL THAT, SO -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: WELL, THANK YOU, JORDAN. YOU'RE VERY TALENTED, AND I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY. OUR NEXT WINNER -- GOD BLESS YOU. OUR NEXT WINNER IS JOSH FLETCHER, AND JOSH IS A 12-GRADER AT DURANT HIGH SCHOOL. HIS PHOTO IS CALLED "CONTAGION," AND HE'S HERE WITH HIS GUESTS, HIS MOM, HIS AUNT, HIS GRANDMOTHER, AND A FRIEND. ARE YOU HERE, HIS AUNT, HIS GRANDMOTHER, AND A FRIEND. DO YOU WANT TO STAND AND BE RECOGNIZED? [APPLAUSE] >> ALL RIGHT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, JOSH. YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN. >> OKAY. I'D LIKE TO THANK MY FAMILY, OF COURSE, FOR SUPPORTING ME ALL THE WAY, AND THEN MY ART TEACHERS -- THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT, UNFORTUNATELY, ONE IS -- HER HUSBAND'S IN THE HOSPITAL, SO SHE COULDN'T MAKE IT -- AND THEN KATIE GRAY COLEMAN FOR BEING THERE. SHE -- IT WAS ACTUALLY USING HER CAMERA, AND I'D LIKE TO THANK HER. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. AND THIS PHOTO, "CONTAGION," I WANTED TO EXPRESS THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF HOW SMOKING IN THE ENVIRONMENT CAN HARM, LIKE, CHILDREN AND STUFF, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, ONE OF THE MODELS, DENA, IN THE BLUE SHIRT, IS -- SHE HAS ASTHMA DUE TO THE SMOKING, AND SMOKING -- I READ AN ARTICLE IN PUBLIC HEALTH NEWS THAT AIR POLLUTION EMITTED BY CIGARETTES IS TEN TIMES GREATER THAN DIESEL CAR EXHAUST, SO I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, LIKE, YOU KNOW -- CIGARETTES ARE BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND FOR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE. SO THAT'S WHAT I JUST WANTED TO SAY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: WELL, THAT'S A GREAT JOB, JOSH. I APPRECIATE THAT. LET ME GIVE YOU YOUR CERTIFICATE, AND WE'LL TAKE A PICTURE IF YOU'D LIKE. HERE WE GO. YOU WANT TO TURN AROUND. I'M SORRY. DID -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOSH. LET'S GIVE JOSH A HAND. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] JORDAN, DID YOU WANT TO GET A PICTURE WITH YOUR -- GET THAT -- PUT THAT ON THE WALL AT THE ROGER P. STEWART CENTER THERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN. OKAY. MOVING ON. OUR FIRST-PLACE WIN -- JULISSA ALVANADO, AND SHE'S A 12th GRADER AT BLAKE HIGH SCHOOL. HER PICTURE IS "ROYAL GASOLINE." SHE HAS HER PARENTS, HER TEACHER, MS. LINDA GALGANI -- OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH -- THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL OF THE MAGNET PROGRAMS AT BLAKE, MR. TOM ZIEGELHOFER. WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND AND BE RECOGNIZED. [APPLAUSE] THANK YOU. AND THIS PHOTO, AGAIN, IS CALLED "ROYAL GASOLINE," AND JULISSA, IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN. PRETTY CREATIVE. I WAS LOOKING AT THIS EARLIER, ACTUALLY ALL OF THEM, BUT GO AHEAD. >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, I WANTED TO SHOW THAT IN THE ENVIRONMENT, LIKE THESE -- THIS IS A PAINTING BY ROSE BONDIER, I BELIEVE, AND SHE HAD SHEEP JUST ENJOYING AIR WHERE THERE WAS NO PEOPLE, BUT IF YOU BRING PEOPLE IN, THEY'LL POLLUTE, AND WHEN THEY POLLUTE, IT, LIKE, MESSES UP THE ENVIRONMENT. [LAUGHTER] >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. >> YEAH. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THAT'S A FAIR STATEMENT. WELL, WE JUST REALLY APPRECIATE IT, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE THE FIRST-PLACE RECIPIENT, AND LET'S GIVE JULISSA A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE AND OUR THANKS. [APPLAUSE] AND THIS IS FOR YOU. >> THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: YOU WANT TO TURN AROUND AND GET A PICTURE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JULISSA. PARDON ME? OKAY. THE NEXT ONE IS BEST OF SHOW, AND IT'S BRYN LENNY, AND HE'S A 12th-GRADER AT PLANT HIGH SCHOOL, AND THIS IS CALLED "CLEAN AIR FOR US TO SHARE," AND HIS FATHER IS HERE WITH HIM, IF HIS FATHER WOULD STAND -- [LAUGHTER] -- I MEAN, HER. EXCUSE ME. WOW, BOY. FORGIVE ME, THAT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS. [LAUGHTER] EXCUSE ME, BRYN. WOW. TALK ABOUT STICK YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH. WHERE'S DAD. HEY, DAD. GOT A WONDERFUL YOUNG LADY HERE. THANK YOU. THE -- AGAIN, THE TITLE, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS "CLEAN AIR FOR US TO SHARE," AND BEST OF SHOW, AND COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR CONCEPT HERE FOR US, BRYN. >> IT'S JUST -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: YOU'VE GOT TO GET CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE. >> I WAS DEPICTING HOW CAR EMISSIONS ARE BAD FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE SKYLINE OF TAMPA CITY IS IN THE BACKGROUND AND HOW CLEAN AIR, WE NEED IT TO SHARE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I LIKE THAT. HOW DID YOU GET KEN HAGAN TO LOAN YOU HIS CAR? >> I KNEW HIM. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THAT'S GREAT. WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF YOU. BEST OF SHOW, BRYN. THAT'S AWESOME, AND LET'S GIVE BRYN -- LET'S GIVE HER A BIG ROUND OF HAND -- OF APPLAUSE. [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, BARBARA. I'LL LET YOU CLOSE HERE WHILE I HEAD UP. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER BLAIR. I QUICKLY WANTED TO PRAISE -- PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A SPECIAL GUEST TO MAKE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. MS. DANA WARNER IS WITH WHARTON HIGH SCHOOL. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS? >> UP THERE? >> I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE EPC FOR GIVING THE ART STUDENTS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER THIS PROGRAM OR THIS ART CONTEST. IT ALWAYS GIVES AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A REAL PROJECT FOR THEM AND TO THINK CONCEPTUALLY AND TO DO SOMETHING FOR THEIR COMMUNITY, SO THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, MS. WARNER. MS. LINDA GALGANI IS HERE WITH BABY AVA. YOU GOING TO BRING BABY AVA UP. AND MS. GALGANI IS WITH BLAKE HIGH SCHOOL. >> HI. I JUST WANT TO TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS WONDERFUL VENUE THAT STUDENTS GET TO COME IN FRONT OF YOU-ALL FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT WE'RE DOING AT BLAKE HIGH SCHOOL. WE LOOK FORWARD TO THIS COMPETITION EVERY YEAR. WE SPEND AT LEAST FIVE WEEKS ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND HOW THE PHOTOGRAPHY CAN DEPICT WHAT THE STUDENTS ARE FEELING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. JULISSA'S IMAGE WAS DONE IN PHOTOSHOP. SHE APPROPRIATED IMAGES, ADDED HER OWN IMAGES, AND CHANGED THE COLOR OF THE SHEEP, AND IT WAS REALLY A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE, SO I WANT TO THANK YOU. BLAKE IS A MAGNET SCHOOL, AS YOU KNOW, AND WE REALLY LOVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO GET OUR WORK OUT THERE. THANK YOU, BARBARA. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, BARBARA. >> THANK YOU, MS. GALGANI. AND WE HAVE TOM ZIEGELHOFER, ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL OF PROGRAMS AT BLAKE. >> GOOD MORNING. THIS IS THE SECOND YEAR I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE HERE IN FRONT OF YOU, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR STUDENTS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, NOT JUST BLAKE HIGH SCHOOL, TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THE WORK THAT THEY DO. CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF AND WHAT YOU READ IN THE PAPER, OUR SCHOOLS ARE ALIVE AND WELL IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND I THINK YOU CAN SEE THAT THROUGH THE SMALL REPRESENTATION OF THE STUDENTS THAT WE HAVE HERE THIS MORNING. I'M STARTING MY 37th YEAR THIS YEAR IN THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SCHOOL SYSTEM AS A TEACHER AND ADMINISTRATOR, AND I'M VERY PROUD OF WHAT OUR STUDENT AND OUR ADMINISTRATION AND OUR PEOPLE ARE DOING FOR OUR STUDENTS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, SO, AGAIN, FOR ALL THAT YOU DO FOR US, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >> AND I JUST WANT TO THANK EACH ONE OF YOU PERSONALLY FOR SUPPORTING THIS ANNUAL TRADITION HERE AT THE EPC, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK. >>BRIAN BLAIR: WELL, I JUST WANT TO SAY YOU DID A GREAT JOB, BARBARA. ANY QUESTIONS FROM BOARD MEMBERS? VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. I KNOW WE HAVE -- I THINK -- HOW LONG, RICK, DO YOU THINK THE MOSAIC -- DO YOU THINK WE COULD GET THAT DONE QUICK? >>RICHARD TSCHANTZ: I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO GO RIGHT INTO THE WETLAND. MOSAIC -- MOSAIC COULD BE QUICK. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I WAS GOING TO SAY IF THAT'S GOING TO BE QUICK, WE COULD GO RIGHT INTO -- I DON'T KNOW. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? >>RICHARD TSCHANTZ: IT WOULD JUST BE TWO MINUTES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: LET'S GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY, PLEASE. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO ITEM 6 ON YOUR AGENDA, AND IS -- THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. IS THERE ANY COMMENT FROM THE PUBLIC ON THE MOSAIC FERTILIZER? >>RICHARD TSCHANTZ: COMMISSIONER, I COULD JUST GO -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: WANT TO GO AHEAD, RICK? >>RICHARD TSCHANTZ: I'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND EXPLAIN IT FIRST. MOSAIC FERTILIZER FILED AN APPLICATION TO IMPACT WETLANDS ON APRIL 3rd. THIS IS FOR A DRAGLINE CROSSING FOR A CORRIDOR, AND ALL THE IMPACTS WERE APPROVED BY EPC. IT AFFECTS FIVE ACRES OF WETLANDS, BUT THESE SAME WETLANDS WILL BE SUBSEQUENTLY IMPACTED AT A LATER TIME, SO ALTHOUGH THEY'RE GOING TO RESTORE THESE WETLANDS WITHIN 30 DAYS, OUR NORMAL RULE REQUIRES A CONSERVATION EASEMENT BE PLACED OVER THESE WETLANDS; HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE, IT IS A HARDSHIP BECAUSE YEARS FROM NOW THEY'LL COME BACK THROUGH AND MINE THESE WETLANDS, AND WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO VACATE THAT CONSERVATION EASEMENT, AND THERE WOULD BE MITIGATION DONE WITH THE CONSERVATION EASEMENT LATER. SO UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, EPC HAS RECEIVED THIS APPLICATION, AND THE STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT WE GRANT THAT WAIVER. IT DOES -- IT HAS BEEN PUBLISHED PROPERLY, AND IT DOES MEET THE RULE CRITERIA FOR A WAIVER. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. IS THERE ANY COMMENT FROM THE PUBLIC? SEEING NO -- >>KEVIN WHITE: MOVE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. >>ROSE FERLITA: SECOND. >>BRIAN BLAIR: MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WHITE, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER FERLITA. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTES. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 6-0. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW WE'LL GO INTO THE CONTINUATION FROM OUR MAY MEETING, OUR WETLAND PROGRAM. WE HAVE WITH US TODAY THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA -- WELL, SWFWMD, SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT -- THANK YOU. I GET TONGUE-TIED HERE. AND WHO IS REPRESENTING SWFWMD TODAY? >>RICK GARRITY: COMMISSIONER, WE HAVE RICHARD OWENS, WHO IS, I THINK, CHIEF OF OPERATING WITH SWFWMD, AND BY THE WAY, WE'VE TOLD SWFWMD, EPC, AND PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT TO TRY TO WRAP IT UP IN FIVE MINUTES APIECE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. >> GOOD MORNING. I AM RICHARD OWEN, AND I AM IN CHARGE OF OUR REGULATORY PROGRAMS AT THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. APPRECIATE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU, AND WHAT I WANTED TO DO, WHAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE MOST INFORMATIVE FOR YOU WOULD BE TO FOLLOW UP ON SOME OF THE POINTS THAT OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MADE AT YOUR LAST MEETING. TO REITERATE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE STATED, WE ARE VERY PROUD OF OUR ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCE PERMITTING PROGRAM AT THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, INCLUDING THE STAFF THAT ADMINISTER THAT PROGRAM. WE HAVE CLARK HULL, AGAIN, HERE WITH US TODAY, WHO'S THE PROGRAM DIRECTOR, LOOKING AT THAT TIME FROM A DISTRICTWIDE PERSPECTIVE, AND WE HAVE ALBA MOSS ALSO HERE TODAY, WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF OUR TAMPA REGULATION OFFICE, SO SHE IS IN CHARGE OF THE STAFF THAT ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND IN THIS GENERAL AREA. MR. MOORE MENTIONED TO YOU SEVERAL THINGS ABOUT OUR ERP PROGRAM, ONE BEING THAT WE HAVE -- WE, THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, WITH OUR SISTER DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, BEEN WORKING FOR YEARS TO ACHIEVE STATEWIDE CONSISTENCY WITHIN THE PROGRAM. IT'S BEEN A PRIORITY FROM A LEGISLATIVE STANDPOINT. WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED THAT IN CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE PROGRAM AND CONTINUE TO WORK IN THAT VEIN TO TRY TO ENSURE THAT HOW WE ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM IS, IN SUBSTANCE, COMPARABLE TO HOW -- OR CONSISTENT WITH HOW THE OTHER WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICTS ARE ADMINISTERING IT IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE. WE ALSO HAVE OTHER PROGRAMS THAT ADDRESS THE PROTECTION AND RESTORATION OF NATURAL SYSTEMS, INCLUDING WETLANDS. MR. MOORE MENTIONED THOSE, OUR SWIM PROGRAM, OUR SURFACE WATER IMPROVEMENT AND MANAGEMENT PROGRAM; OUR LAND ACQUISITION PROGRAM, WHICH WE'RE FORTUNATE HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PARTNER WITH THE COUNTY IN THAT PROGRAM TO PURCHASE LANDS THAT ARE ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AND SET THOSE ASIDE FOR THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL AND WATER MANAGEMENT BENEFITS WHILE, AT THE SAME TIME IN MANY CASES, ACCOMMODATING RECREATIONAL AND OTHER TYPES OF USES ON THOSE LANDS. SO JUST TO REITERATE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MR. MOORE MENTIONED TO YOU PREVIOUSLY. WHAT I'D ALSO LIKE TO EMPHASIZE IS THAT OUR PROGRAM IS GOVERNED BY FLORIDA STATUTES, STATUTES ADOPTED BY OUR LEGISLATURE, INCLUDING CHAPTER 373, THE WATER RESOURCES ACT, AS WELL AS CHAPTER 403, AND UNDERNEATH THOSE STATUTES, THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT HAS ADOPTED RULES TO IMPLEMENT THAT PROGRAM. OUR ERP RULES ARE CONTAINED IN CHAPTER 40-D-4, AND IT HAS AN ASSOCIATED BASIS OF REVIEW THAT PROVIDES EVEN GREATER DETAIL TO THE REGULATED COMMUNITY ON HOW TO GO ABOUT GETTING PERMITS FROM THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. AND OUR PROGRAM ADDRESSES FOUR CATEGORIES OR AREAS OF RESOURCE MANAGEMENT, WATER QUALITY; WATER QUANTITY OR FLOODING ISSUES; ENVIRONMENTAL, INCLUDING WETLANDS; AS WELL AS SOVEREIGN SUBMERGED LANDS WHEN THEY'RE INVOLVED IN THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT. ANOTHER IMPORTANT ASPECT OF OUR PROGRAM IS THAT IT'S GOVERNED BY CHAPTER 120 OF THE FLORIDA STATUTES, THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT, WHICH SETS FORTH -- SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF THAT ARE THAT TIME CLOCKS ARE INVOLVED, THE TIME IN WHICH WE MUST RESPOND TO INITIAL APPLICATIONS. THE TIME IN WHICH WE MUST ACT WHEN THE APPLICATION HAS BEEN DEEMED COMPLETE ARE SPECIFIED IN THAT STATUTE SO OUR REGULATORY PROGRAM IS GOVERNED BY THAT. IT ALSO ADDRESSES OPPORTUNITIES FOR BOTH THE APPLICANT AND THIRD PARTIES TO CHALLENGE AGENCY ACTION, SO THAT'S GOVERNED BY THE 120 TIME CLOCK. WE HAVE THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCE PERMITS, INDIVIDUAL, GENERAL, AND NOTICED GENERAL, AND IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE SITE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO BE DEVELOPED AND THE NATURE OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD GOVERN WHETHER OR NOT A PROJECT -- A PROPOSED PROJECT FALLS WITHIN THE INDIVIDUAL, THE GENERAL, OR THE NOTICED GENERAL. SIZE OF PROPERTY, WETLANDS, WETLAND IMPACTS, AND THOSE KINDS OF CRITERIA WOULD DETERMINE WHICH CATEGORY IT FALLS IN. PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY TO THE REGULATED COMMUNITY, REALLY, THE SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL PERMITS GO TO OUR GOVERNING BOARD AT THEIR MONTHLY BOARD MEETINGS FOR ACTION. THE OTHER PERMITS, THE GENERAL AND THE NOTICED GENERAL, ARE ACTED UPON BY THE STAFF, SO YOU'RE NOT SUBJECT TO WAITING FOR THOSE MONTHLY BOARD MEETINGS, GENERALLY SPEAKING. WE -- TO GIVE YOU -- PUT THESE PERMITTING PROGRAMS IN PERSPECTIVE, OUR ERP PROGRAM IN PERSPECTIVE, LAST YEAR IN 2006 DISTRICTWIDE, ALL OR PART OF 16 COUNTIES ALONG THE SOUTH WEST COAST, WE ISSUED 3,640 ENVIRONMENTAL PERMITS, 3,640 IN 2006. OF THAT, 814 WERE ISSUED IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. OF THAT 814, 166 INVOLVED WETLANDS. 166 OF THOSE ISSUED IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IN 2006 INVOLVED WETLANDS. THAT KIND OF PUTS OUR PERMITTING ACTIVITY FOR ERPs IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IN PERSPECTIVE OF OUR OVERALL PROGRAM AS WELL AS THOSE THAT INVOLVE WETLANDS. OUT OF THAT 814, WE WOULD ESTIMATE -- AND I DIDN'T BRING THE EXACT NUMBER WITH ME TODAY -- ABOUT 50 TO 60 OF THEM ARE INDIVIDUAL PERMITS, THE LARGER PROJECTS OR THE PROJECTS THAT ARE PROPOSING MORE IMPACTS TO WETLANDS THAT HAVE TO GO TO OUR MONTHLY GOVERNING BOARD MEETING. IN OUR PAST DELEGATION WITH PINELLAS COUNTY, THE ONE THAT MR. MOORE MENTIONED TO YOU THAT WAS EVENTUALLY GIVEN BACK TO US BY THE COUNTY, WE DID NOT DELEGATE INDIVIDUAL PERMITS. THEY REMAINED WITH OUR AGENCY. THE SMALLER PROJECTS WENT -- ARE WHAT WENT TO THE COUNTY. AND I KNOW YOU'RE AWARE OF THIS, BUT WE DO HAVE AN EXISTING MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING WITH HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY EPC. IT ADDRESSES FOUR DIFFERENT AREAS, WETLAND DELINEATION, COMPLIANCE INVESTIGATIONS, MITIGATION MONITORING, AND PREAPPLICATION MEETINGS. IN THOSE FOUR SUBSTANTIVE AREAS, WE THINK WE'VE GONE A LONG WAY IN COORDINATION WITH YOUR STAFF HERE AT EPC TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR ACTIVITIES ARE COORDINATED AND INTEGRATED TOGETHER. NOW, I KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD ENHANCE THAT, AND WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO ENHANCE OUR PROGRAMS AND HOW THEY INTERACT WITH THOSE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, ELIMINATING ANY DUPLICATION THAT MAY EXIST, IMPROVING EFFICIENCIES, AND WE'RE MORE THAN OPEN TO DISCUSSING THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WITH YOUR STAFF AND WITH THIS BOARD. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK VERY GOOD. THANK YOU, MR. OWEN. ANYBODY -- WE'VE -- DR. GARRITY AND I SPOKE AND THE BOARD SPOKE, AND WE SAID WE'D LIKE TO POSSIBLY -- WE WANTED TO STREAMLINE THE PERMITTING PROCESS, AS THAT IN ITSELF IS AN EXPENSE AND AN INEFFICIENCY, AND OUR EPC STAFF AND BOARD RECOGNIZED THAT, SO WE HAD LOOKED AT DELEGATION COMING TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. YOU SAID YOU TRIED THAT IN PINELLAS COUNTY, AND WHAT HAPPENED THERE? >> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE COUNTY ELECTED AFTER I THINK IT WAS ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS TO GIVE THE PROGRAM BACK TO THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AND I THINK THERE WERE SEVERAL FACTORS INVOLVED THERE. ONE WAS THAT THEY'RE SUBJECT TO THE ONE -- TO SOMETHING ANALOGOUS -- SUBSTANTIVELY SIMILAR TO THE 120 PROCESS, TIME CLOCKS AND CHALLENGES, POTENTIAL CHALLENGES, PARTICULARLY BY THIRD PARTIES, AND I THINK THERE WAS CONCERN ABOUT WHEN THAT WAS IMPLEMENTED, WHEN THOSE 120 REQUIREMENTS WERE IMPOSED ON THAT DELEGATION, JUST HOW MUCH OF THE COUNTY ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATED WITH A PARTICULAR PROJECT WOULD BE PULLED UNDER THAT UMBRELLA, BUT IT WAS REALLY AT THE COUNTY'S INITIATIVE TO GIVE IT BACK TO THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: AND WOULD SWFWMD BE WILLING TO GIVE UP JURISDICTION TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY FOR THE -- >> AS MR. MOORE MENTIONED TO YOU, THAT WOULD BE A GOVERNING BOARD DECISION. I THINK WE WOULD NEED TO THINK THROUGH ALL THOSE RAMIFICATIONS TO BOTH OUR AGENCY, THE EPC, OTHER UNITS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY GOVERNMENT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT, AND THE EFFECT IT WOULD HAVE ON OUR PUBLIC PURPOSE OF PROTECTING OUR NATURAL RESOURCES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: ALSO, I KNOW THAT WE PAY SWFWMD A HALF A MILL, EVERYBODY THAT OWNS A HOME. THAT AMOUNTS TO ALMOST $40 MILLION. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH GOES TO THE PERMITTING PROCESS, BUT DOES SWFWMD NEED HELP MONITORING WITH ENFORCEMENT WITH WETLAND DELINEATIONS? >> I THINK THAT -- LET ME RESPOND IN TWO FASHIONS. FIRST, OUR AGENCY DOES HAVE AD VALOREM TAX REVENUE, AND THAT REVENUE IS GENERATED BY TWO FORMS OF MILLAGE, ONE LEVIED BY OUR GOVERNING BOARD, AND THAT'S DISTRICTWIDE, SO THAT INCLUDES ALL OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND THEN WE HAVE EIGHT BASIN BOARDS, AND I BELIEVE FIVE OF THOSE ACTUALLY ENCOMPASS HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY -- FOUR OR FIVE OF THEM ENCOMPASS HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. THE GOVERNING MILLAGE DISTRICTWIDE IS WHAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE FUNDING OF OUR REGULATORY PROGRAMS. THE BASIN BOARDS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE DOING THE COOPERATIVE PROJECTS WITH HILLSBOROUGH AND OTHERS FOR RECLAIMED WATER, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, AND SO FORTH, SO THERE'S A PORTION OF THAT GOVERNING BOARD MILLAGE THAT DOES CONTRIBUTE TO THE REVENUES NECESSARY FOR OUR REGULATORY PROGRAMS. WE ALSO HAVE FEES THAT APPLICANTS PAY IN -- YOU KNOW, TO APPLY FOR THESE PERMITS, BUT THEY DON'T COME ANYWHERE NEAR TO SUPPORTING THE PROGRAM. >>BRIAN BLAIR: DOES THE DISTRICT REQUIRE ALL ERP MITIGATION SITES TO BE INSPECTED IN ORDER TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE AND SUCCESS? >> WE DO HAVE A PROGRAM TO ENSURE THAT THE MITIGATION THAT'S BEING REQUIRED IS BEING IMPLEMENTED AND THAT THERE'S FOLLOW-UP FOR THAT MONITORING AND SUCCESS OF THAT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. AND ALL THE INFORMATION THAT I'M SHOWING IS THAT WE'VE GAINED -- THERE'S A -- SOMETHING HERE THAT SHOWS THAT THERE WAS A NET GAIN OF 32,000 ACRES OF WETLAND -- WETLANDS FROM '98 TO 2004. THAT WAS ACROSS THE STATE OF FLORIDA FROM '98 -- FROM 1998 TO 2004. YOU MONITOR 16 COUNTIES. HAVE YOU SEEN A SUBSTANTIAL GAIN AND IMPROVEMENT TO THE WETLANDS? >> LET ME SHARE SOME INFORMATION WITH YOU BECAUSE I KNEW THIS WAS A TOPIC THAT YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED. WE LOOKED AT OUR REGULATORY DATABASE FOR THE YEARS 2002 THROUGH 2008 -- OR 2006, EXCUSE ME, AND FOR THAT TIME PERIOD, THE PERMITTING ACTIVITY, THE ERP PROGRAM, RESULTED IN AN INCREASE IN ACREAGE -- OF WETLAND ACREAGE OF APPROXIMATELY 10,000 ACRES IN ALL OR PART OF 16 COUNTIES. SOME OF THE LARGEST AREAS WERE OVER 2,300 ACRES IN SARASOTA COUNTY, OVER 2,000 ACRES IN POLK COUNTY. IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FOR THAT TIME PERIOD, WE'RE SHOWING AN INCREASE OF APPROXIMATELY 536 ACRES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: SO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING THAT WE'RE -- THAT THE WETLANDS ARE BEING DESTROYED EVERY DAY, IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT? >> I THINK OBVIOUSLY DEVELOPMENT DOES PROPOSE TO IMPACT AND MITIGATE CERTAIN WETLANDS, SO WE ARE LOSING SOME OF THE WETLANDS THAT WERE EXISTING, BUT UNDER TODAY'S REGULATIONS, ALL THOSE SHOULD BE MITIGATED THROUGH DIFFERENT FORMS OF MITIGATION THAT CAN BE PROPOSED BY AN APPLICANT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: AND IS THAT HOW THE GAIN OCCURS, THROUGH THE MITIGATION? >> YES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: AND DOES MITIGATION -- IS THAT SUCCESSFUL? >> I THINK EVERYBODY COULD POINT TO EXAMPLES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN THE PAST, AND THEN YOU CAN LOOK TO EXAMPLES THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL TODAY. THE IMPORTANT POINT, I THINK, IS THAT OUR REGULATORY PROGRAM DOES PUT THE ONUS ON THE APPLICANT AND THE PERMITTEE TO PROVE UP THAT THEIR MITIGATION IS SUCCESSFUL. AND IF IT'S NOT, THEY HAVE TO COME BACK IN AND PROPOSE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL. >>BRIAN BLAIR: AND THAT'S -- I BELIEVE DR. GARRITY SAID WE HAD A 92.5% SUCCESS RATE, AND IF THEY WERE -- HE SAID ALONG THE SAME LINES, BUT I WANTED TO CONCUR THAT IF THOSE OTHER 7.5% AREN'T GETTING THE JOB DONE, YOU STICK WITH THEM UNTIL THEY GET THE JOB DONE. >> YES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THAT'S CORRECT. I'LL LET SOMEBODY ELSE SPEAK. I'M SORRY. MR. WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: JUST A QUICK QUESTION. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. MR. OWEN -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: EXCUSE ME. COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: -- I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY ONE THING. I'M JUST A LITTLE CLOUDY ON WHAT YOU SAID. CITIZENS 2002 TO 2006 UNDER THE ERP PROGRAM, YOU'RE SAYING WE'VE HAD AN INCREASE OF OVER 10,000 ACRES OF WETLANDS IN THE 16-COUNTY AREA THAT -- THAT SWFWMD OVERSEES; CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT, ATTRIBUTABLE TO OUR PERMITTING PROGRAM. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. AND A 536-ACRE INCREASE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ALONE? >> IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. >>KEVIN WHITE: NOW, OUT OF ALL OF THE OTHER 16 COUNTIES THAT -- THAT YOU GOVERN IN, HOW MANY OTHERS HAVE DUPLICATION OF EPC OVERRIDE? >> YOU MEAN A SIMILAR PROGRAM TO -- >>KEVIN WHITE: SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE HERE. >> TO -- A REGULATORY WETLANDS PROGRAM? >>KEVIN WHITE: YES. >> THAT, I'M SORRY, I CANNOT TELL YOU DEFINITIVELY. >>KEVIN WHITE: APPROXIMATELY. >> I DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME. I BELIEVE HERNANDO COUNTY HAS A PROGRAM THAT CAN ADDRESS WETLANDS THROUGH THEIR REGULATIONS, I BELIEVE PINELLAS COUNTY MAY, MANATEE COUNTY. ALL OF THEM MAY GET INTO IT IN A CERTAIN EXTENT, ALL OF THOSE I MENTIONED, SO -- BUT I CAN'T ANSWER DEFINITIVELY. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, MR. WHITE. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: IN ALL THE COUNTIES THAT YOU OVERSEE, ARE THERE -- IS IT A COOKIE-CUTTER ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL OVERSIGHT, OR, FOR INSTANCE, SARASOTA OR SOMEONE LIKE THAT, IF THEY SAID WE WANT YOU TO HAVE THAT -- ADD THIS ONE ELEMENT TO YOUR -- YOUR PERMITTING OR OVERSIGHT, DO YOU CONSIDER THOSE THINGS? >> COMMISSIONER NORMAN, I'M NOT SURE I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, BUT LET ME RESPOND -- >>JIM NORMAN: IF THEY WANTED TO, FOR INSTANCE, HAVE A LEVEL OF -- LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE STATE HAS A LEVEL OF REGULATION OR OVERSIGHT. THERE WAS SOMETHING UNIQUE TO SARASOTA. I'M JUST USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. CAN THEY COME TO YOUR -- CAN THE COUNTY, WHATEVER, COME TO YOU AND SAY, COULD YOU ADD THAT ELEMENT? >> I THINK THAT MAY GET TO THE ISSUE OF YES, WE HAVE RULES THAT ARE DISTRICTWIDE. THEY'RE CONSISTENT ON A DISTRICTWIDE BASIS, BUT WHAT THEY ALLOW FOR IS THE RECOGNITION THAT THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT OUR DISTRICT, AND WE ACTUALLY TAKE A WATERSHED-BASED APPROACH, SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY LOOKING AT POLITICAL JURISDICTIONS, BUT IT'S LOOKING AT SURFACE WATERSHEDS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE RECOGNIZING THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS OF A WATERSHED AS WE PERMIT WITHIN THAT WATERSHED, AND IF NECESSARY, WE CAN ADOPT SPECIAL RULES AT THE WATERSHED LEVEL, BASIN-SPECIFIC CRITERIA, AND I THINK YOU'LL BE SEEING THAT COME OUT OF -- HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IS ONE COUNTY, HERNANDO AGAIN, SARASOTA, WHERE WE'RE JOINTLY FUNDING THESE WATERSHED STUDIES, AND AT LEAST PART OF THE INTENT THERE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS WE'RE MAKING ON A PROJECT-BY-PROJECT BASIS RECOGNIZE THE UNIQUE NATURE OF THE WATERSHED WITHIN WHICH THEY SIT AND THAT OUR RULES RECOGNIZE THAT AS WELL. SO THAT'S A PART OF WHERE THAT PROGRAM IS HEADED. >>JIM NORMAN: IN THE -- I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE BIG PICTURE HERE WITH THE STATE, WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND CUTS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. DID YOUR AGENCY -- ARE YOU-ALL HAVING ANY OF THOSE MANDATES AND ROLLBACKS AND CUTS? >> TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, WE ARE INCLUDED IN THE LATEST PROPOSAL, AND -- >>JIM NORMAN: NO, NO, NO, NO. >> -- WE WILL HAVE CUTBACKS THAT WILL OCCUR. >>JIM NORMAN: ARE THOSE -- FOR INSTANCE, WHEN THE STATE SAYS COUNTY GOVERNMENT -- LET'S SAY -- PICK A NUMBER -- YOU'RE GOING TO CUT 10% IN THE LATEST ROUND OF MANDATED -- WHATEVER FORMULA THEY CAME UP WITH. I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU'RE WITHIN THAT. >> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ADJUSTMENTS THEY'RE MAKING TO THE ASSESSED VALUATIONS -- >>JIM NORMAN: OH, THE ASSESSMENTS. >> -- WILL AFFECT THE WATER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. >>JIM NORMAN: HOW WILL THAT, THEN, IN TURN CAUSE AN EFFECT OF YOUR OVERSIGHT? >> WE'RE -- WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY PROGRAM, AS WE DO EVERY YEAR IN OUR BUDGET CYCLE, BUT THIS WILL BE A NEW CHALLENGE, EVERY PROGRAM AT THE DISTRICT, IS IT ESSENTIAL TO OUR CORE FUNCTIONS, WHERE CAN WE RESPOND TO THIS DECREASE IN REVENUE, AND WHAT SHOULD WE CUT BACK, AND IT'LL BE A DIFFICULT EXERCISE, AND IT HAS TO BE INTEGRATED IN OUR CURRENT ONGOING BUDGET PROCESS. I CAN TELL YOU THAT THERE'S OTHER AREAS THAT -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS A STATE-MANDATED PROGRAM, SO CLEARLY OUR ERP PROGRAM IS A CORE FUNCTION OF OUR AGENCY. THE RESOURCES WE DEVOTE TO IT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT EVERY YEAR, BUT RECOGNIZE, OUR AGENCY HAS NOT HAD AN INCREASE IN THE STAFF RESOURCES FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS NOW, AND YET WE'VE RECEIVED NEW PROGRAMS FROM THE LEGISLATURE OR FROM DEP, SO IT'S BECOME AN ISSUE OF PRIORITIZING OUR STAFF RESOURCES, WHERE CAN THEY BEST BE ALLOCATED, WHERE ARE THE RISKS GREATEST TO THE ENVIRONMENT OR THE PUBLIC. >>JIM NORMAN: YOU'VE BEEN UNDERTAKING FOR TEN YEARS WHAT WE'RE NOW UNDERTAKING AS A -- >> WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT QUITE A WHILE. WE HAVE ENJOYED AN INCREASE IN THE AD VALOREM REVENUES THAT ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE IN TERMS OF ASSESSED VALUES HAVE GONE UP, OUR MILLAGE RATES HAVE STAYED THE SAME, BUT ALL -- OUR AGENCY TOOK A POSITION FIVE OR MORE YEARS AGO. ALL THOSE INCREASES WERE GOING BACK INTO OUR FUNDING OF ALTERNATIVE WATER SUPPLY PROJECTS WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, REGIONAL WATER SUPPLY AUTHORITIES, SO IT'S ALL GONE RIGHT BACK INTO CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE TYPES OF PROJECTS WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, NOT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, INTO THE REGULATORY PROGRAMS AT THE AGENCY. >>JIM NORMAN: THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I HAVE COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. THANK YOU, MR. -- COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE MITIGATION AND THE SUCCESS OF MITIGATED WETLANDS, HOW -- HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHAT'S SUCCESSFUL AND WHAT'S NOT, AND WHO SETS THOSE STANDARDS? WHERE DO YOU GO TO ASK SOMEBODY ABOUT HOW YOU JUDGE THAT MITIGATION? >> YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A TECHNICAL STAFF PERSON, SO I MAY HAVE TO CALL -- IF YOU WANT TO GET IN THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL -- ON MY STAFF TO COME UP AND ASSIST, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT'S THE SURVIVAL RATE OF THE SPECIES WITHIN THE AREA IN TERMS OF ARE THE WETLANDS COMING ALONG. THERE'S ALSO CRITERIA IN TERMS OF DID THEY MEET THE WATER LEVELS THAT THEY -- WE PERMITTED THEM TO? IS THE SYSTEM AS-BUILT CONSISTENT WITH THE PERMIT THAT WAS ISSUED? IT'S THOSE KINDS OF CRITERIA THAT WOULD BE REPORTED BACK TO THE AGENCY. WE PERIODICALLY GO OUT AND INSPECT OURSELVES. IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY THE EPC IS DOING MUCH OF THAT FOR US, SO IT'S A COMBINATION OF THEIR REPORTING BACK TO US AS WELL AS ON-SITE INSPECTIONS. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND I REALIZE YOU'RE NOT TECHNICAL, AND I'M NOT EITHER, BUT I'VE BEEN TASKED TO WADE THROUGH THIS WATER ISSUE WITH EVERYBODY ELSE UP HERE. AS FAR AS HISTORY ON MITIGATED WETLANDS, WHAT'S THE OLDEST ONE WE HAVE IN THE STATE, AND HOW CAN WE GO BACK AND SAY, WELL, WE'VE GOT ONE THAT'S TEN YEARS OLD OR 40 YEARS OLD AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE HEALTH OF THAT ONE TO SEE IF WE'RE ACTUALLY GETTING THE RESULTS WE WANT WITH THE MITIGATION? I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THAT ANSWER, BUT I'D LIKE TO -- AS WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THIS OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS - - >> I'D BE GLAD TO COME BACK. I HAVE SEEN PRESENTATIONS IN THE PAST THAT MR. HULL HAS MADE ON OUR STAFF TO OUR GOVERNING BOARD SHOWING EXAMPLES OF VERY SUCCESSFUL WETLAND MITIGATIONS AND OTHERS THAT WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL AND WHY THEY WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL, SO WE'VE LEARNED FROM OUR EXPERIENCES. WE'D BE GLAD TO SHARE THAT WITH YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: NO, THAT'S NOT MY NUMBER, MR. BLAIR. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I'M SORRY. FORGIVE ME, COMMISSIONER FERLITA. COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: SO YOU'RE -- IT LOOKS LIKE SWFWMD WILL ALSO BE ENJOYING ADDITIONAL CUTS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? >> YES. >>MARK SHARPE: WOULD IT, THEN, BE -- IF WE'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, ALL WORK TOGETHER AND PERHAPS REDUCE SOME OF THE DUPLICATION, MIGHT IT NOT HELP YOU IF WE WERE TO CONSIDER TAKING OVER MAYBE THE -- YOU KNOW, I THINK LAST YEAR YOU SAID IT WAS 166 PERMITS THAT INVOLVED THE WETLANDS. WHAT IF WE WERE TO TRY TO PICK UP THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES RATHER THAN HAVING YOU DO THAT? WOULD THAT PERHAPS HELP YOU? >> I THINK, AGAIN, WE'RE WILLING TO DISCUSS THOSE KINDS OF OPTIONS. I THINK WE NEED TO GO INTO IT WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT. I THINK THAT ONE ISSUE THAT WE WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT IS IF CERTAIN PERMITS WERE TO BE HANDLED BY THE COUNTY, WE WOULD WANT, MORE THAN LIKELY -- THIS IS NOT DEFINITIVE, BUT WE WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY WANT ALL THE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT TO BE HANDLED, NOT JUST A PORTION OF IT. AND SO THERE'S THE OTHER ASPECTS. THERE'S THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT ASPECTS, FLOOD PROTECTION, AND SO FORTH. >>MARK SHARPE: BUT YOU WOULD BE WILLING AT LEAST TO ENTER INTO DISCUSSIONS OR HAVE A CONVERSATION REGARDING THIS? >> YES. >>MARK SHARPE: THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: AND COMMISSIONER FERLITA. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>ROSE FERLITA: THANKS, MR. CHAIRMAN. JUST -- I GUESS AT THIS POINT, SIR -- AND THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS THAT YOU HAVE MADE. THEY'RE VERY INFORMATIVE. I'M STILL IN THE COLLECTING PHASE OF DETERMINATION, AND I'M JUST THINKING, BASED ON WHAT MR. SHARPE SAID -- I WOULD THINK THAT INTERJECTING THIS NOW WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. I SEE LATER IN OUR PROGRAM THAT WE'RE GOING TO ASK FOR A STATUS REPORT ON THE WETLANDS DELEGATION UPDATE THAT WE ASKED DR. GARRITY TO DO, AND OF COURSE, ONCE WE LOOK AT THAT FEASIBILITY STUDY, I THINK THAT WILL BE ALSO SOME ADDITIONAL DATA THAT COULD DETERMINE WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T WHEN WE COME TO THE CONFERENCE TABLE AND SEE WHAT, YOU KNOW -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER FERLITA. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE FORMULA AND THE DOLLARS HERE FOR A SECOND. IF -- IF WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS FOLLOWED THROUGH ON, YOU GET THE AD VALOREM TAXES AND YOU GET -- AND WE -- YOU SHIFT THE -- THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COMMISSIONER SHARPE JUST SPOKE OF TO US, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE INCREASING OUR COSTS IF EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID -- IF WE DON'T GET THE FLOW OF RESOURCES AND THE TAXES THAT YOU'RE -- YOU'RE OBTAINING BUT WE TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITY AND YOU'RE NOT RECEIVING, AS YOU SAID EARLIER, THE FEES AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE FULL COMMITMENT OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING, IT LOOKS LIKE -- IF YOU'RE SHIFTING THAT OVER -- AND SAY YOU'RE ONLY GETTING A PORTION -- WE'RE PICKING UP COSTS, WE'RE NOT PICKING UP A PUSH. >> WELL, I THINK -- COMMISSIONER, IF I COULD, A PART OF THE -- IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD IN THESE DISCUSSIONS, A PART OF THAT DISCUSSION WOULD BE DOES THE DELEGATION AGREEMENT -- BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU WOULD FACILITATE THIS, THE -- THERE WOULD BE DISCUSSIONS ON AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE EPC OR THE COUNTY AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT ON DELEGATION. WOULD THAT ADDRESS WHAT THE COUNTY COULD CHARGE FOR ITS FEES? THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE TO BE ON THE TABLE. CLEARLY, I WOULD THINK THE COUNTY WOULD WANT TO CHARGE THE FULL COST, SO IT WOULD BE RECOVERING ITS FULL COST AND THE FEES, AND THAT WOULD BE ONE OPTION THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO US. THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IS NOT CHARGING FULL COST RIGHT NOW, AND IN OUR BOARD DISCUSSIONS, AND THEY -- AS MR. MOORE MENTIONED TO YOU, THEY HAD DISCUSSIONS ON THIS TOPIC FOR NOT JUST ERP BUT FOR OUR WELL CONSTRUCTION PERMITTING, OUR WATER USE PERMITTING, FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IT WAS A VERY WELL-DEBATED ISSUE, BUT THERE WAS -- IT WAS ALL BEING DISCUSSED WITH AN EFFORT TO SEE COULD WE NOT DO GREATER COST RECOVERY IN OUR FEE STRUCTURE, AND WHAT WOULD IT BE AT VARIOUS LEVELS OF RECOVERY, BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN ARGUMENTS -- PUBLIC POLICY ARGUMENTS -- AS TO WHY WE SHOULD USE AD VALOREM TAXES TO PAY FOR ALL OR A PART OF OUR REGULATORY PROGRAMS. IT HAS TO DO WITH, WELL, WHO'S REALLY BENEFITING FROM THOSE PROGRAMS. SOME WOULD ARGUE THE PUBLIC AT LARGE IS BENEFITING, SO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE COULD CONTRIBUTE THROUGH THEIR AD VALOREM TAXES. OTHERS SHOULD ARGUE THE DEVELOPER SHOULD PAY A COST OF IT, SO THERE'S EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN THERE, AND OUR BOARD LOOKED AT ALL THOSE. BUT FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, WE WERE NEVER SUCCESSFUL IN INCREASING THE COST RECOVERY OF OUR FEE STRUCTURE WITH ANY OF THOSE PERMITTING PROGRAMS. >>JIM NORMAN: SO ALL THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, THOUGH, THAT YOU TALK ABOUT SHIFTING DOWN, THERE COULD BE QUITE A BURDEN THAT COMES WITH IT? >> THE ONLY ONE WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING IS THE ERP PROGRAM. >>JIM NORMAN: YOU JUST MENTIONED -- >> BUT THAT ERP PROGRAM, YOU WOULD -- THE COUNTY WOULD CHARGE A FEE TO APPLICANTS, AND PRESUMABLY YOU'D WANT TO CHARGE A FULL COST RECOVERY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: JUST TO GO BACK TO THIS POINT. I DON'T WANT TO OVERLY SIMPLIFY IT. PERHAPS I AM, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT IF -- IF -- AND THIS IS WHAT'S FRUSTRATING, I THINK, THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY. IF SWFWMD IS LOOKING AT A PARTICULAR PERMIT AND WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PARTICULAR -- A PARTICULAR PERMIT, WHICH WE ARE -- WE'RE LOOKING AT IT ALREADY ANYWAY -- I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU HERE. I'M THINKING THIS MIGHT BE A WAY TO HELP YOU. IF WE'RE LOOKING AT IT AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT, WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS IF IT'S A WETLAND PERMIT, YOU WON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT IT. WE'RE STILL ALREADY LOOKING AT IT. SO NOW, WE'VE, IN ESSENCE -- HOPEFULLY, IF THIS -- AS WE GO THROUGH THE DISCUSSIONS IN THE FUTURE -- BEARS OUT, WE MIGHT BE ENDING SOME OF THE DUPLICATION. WE MIGHT EVEN BE ABLE TO SAVE THE TAXPAYERS SOME MONEY BY NOT HAVING TWO AGENCIES BUT -- BUT ONE, AND THAT'S KIND OF THE PERSPECTIVE -- THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'VE BEEN COMING AT IT FROM, AND I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY. THE IDEA ISN'T THAT WE'RE GOING TO PICK UP SOMETHING WE'RE NOT ALREADY LOOKING AT, WE'RE ALREADY LOOKING AT THESE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: LET ME JUST INTERJECT RIGHT THERE. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. YOU, RIGHT NOW, IF YOU TOOK ALL OF THE PERMITS, WE'D HAVE TO HIRE AT LEAST SIX TO EIGHT MORE ENGINEERS ON STAFF JUST TO COVER ALL OF THE PERMITS. IS THAT A REASONABLE STATEMENT, DR. GARRITY? >>RICK GARRITY: COMMISSIONER, I HAVE A FEASIBILITIES UPDATE TO GIVE TO YOU, BUT WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE POINT OF STAFFING IT YET. >>BRIAN BLAIR: YEAH. BUT THERE WOULD DEFINITELY BE MORE STAFF REQUIRED. I MEAN, THAT'S A NO-BRAINER, SINCE -- >>RICK GARRITY: WE DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE SINCE WE ARE DOING A LOT OF THE WORK, BUT I -- THE ANSWER IS WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR. >>BRIAN BLAIR: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. THANK YOU. OF. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THANK YOU, MADAM. AS I'M UNDERSTANDING THE DEP, SWFWMD -- A LOT OF THE REGULATIONS ARE PRETTY SIMILAR IN THAT AREA NOW, IS THAT -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: THE STATE REGULATES. >> I'D HAVE TO SAY THERE IS SOME SIMILARITIES IN THE ISSUES WE'RE ADDRESSING. WHETHER OR NOT THE SPECIFIC CRITERIA ARE THE SAME -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THE APPEALS PROCESS WHEN WE HAVE A DISPUTE. >> I CAN ONLY SPEAK TO OUR APPEALS PROCESS. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE COUNTY'S. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. WHAT ABOUT WITH BROWARD COUNTY? I KNOW THEY -- I THINK YOU'RE IN FULL INTERACTION WITH THEM. HOW IS THAT GOING? DOES ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT THE EXPENSES THAT BROWARD COUNTY HAS? HAVE THEY INCREASED? >> I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE MERITS OF THOSE RIGHT NOW. I CAN TELL YOU FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY DEP STAFF OR THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT. I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE MERITS OF THOSE RIGHT NOW. I CAN TELL YOU FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY DEP STAFF, NOWHERE ELSE IN THE STATE HAS THE WHOLE PROGRAM BEEN DELEGATED TO A LOCAL GOVERNMENT. IT'S PORTIONS OF IT. IT'S CERTAIN TYPES OF ACTIVITIES THAT HAVE BEEN DELEGATED. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: BECAUSE I KNOW AS WE FRAME THIS DISCUSSION, THE ULTIMATE CONCERN IS UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION AND TO GAIN EFFICIENCY THAT'S GOING TO SAVE US DOLLARS AND TO IMPROVE THE CUSTOMER SERVICE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY ALL AFTER HERE, BUT MAINLY TO BE MINDFUL OF THE DOLLARS AND WATCH THAT CHARGE OF BEING STEWARDS OF THE ENVIRONMENT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: AND THIS ISN'T TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE, BUT THIS IS THE FACTS. IF WE TOOK ON THE RESPONSIBILITY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU'RE -- BASICALLY YOUR COMMENTS WAS WE CAN CHARGE THE FEES AND COVER WHATEVER CEILING THAT IS, BUT THE BENEFIT AND THE SAVINGS IS GOING TO BE WITH THE STATE BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP THE AD VALOREM TAXES. THEY'RE GOING TO LET OUR PEOPLE PAY MORE -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: THAT'S RIGHT. >>JIM NORMAN: -- BUT YOU'RE NOT -- YOU DON'T WRITE A CHECK TO BROWARD COUNTY, DO YOU? >> BROWARD COUNTY IS NOT IN OUR WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. >>JIM NORMAN: EXCUSE ME. BUT NOWHERE IN YOUR FORMULA YOU WRITE CHECKS TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FOR YOUR AD VALOREM TAXES? >> NO. >>JIM NORMAN: I DIDN'T THINK SO. THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: LAST COUPLE QUESTIONS. ARE YOU -- IS SWFWMD -- THERE'S PEOPLE THAT SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE LOCAL -- ANYBODY WATCHING OUR WETLANDS LOCALLY. ARE YOU -- ARE YOU LOCATED LOCALLY? >> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD ISSUE TO BRING UP. OUR GOVERNING BOARD MADE A DECISION OVER A DECADE AGO TO GET OUT CLOSER TO THE PEOPLE WE REGULATE, AND WE TOOK A APPROACH OF HAVING SERVICE OFFICES DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT OUR 16-COUNTY AREA TO MAKE OURSELVES MORE ACCESSIBLE. YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE ONE OF OUR SERVICE OFFICES, THE TAMPA SERVICE OFFICE, HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, LOCATED OVER ON 301. IT HAS -- IT'S A VERY WELL-STAFFED OFFICE, AND IN FACT, OUR MAIN COMPUTER OFFICE IS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT LOCATION AS WELL, RIGHT NEXT TO THE TAMPA BYPASS CANAL. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THAT'S IN THE HEART OF TAMPA. THEY ALSO -- THERE'S ALSO -- THEY'RE SAYING THAT YOU DON'T -- SWFWMD DOESN'T PROTECT OUR WETLANDS AS WELL AS EPC, AND I DON'T WANT TO GET IN A SCUFFLE HERE, BUT I KNOW THAT THERE'S STATE FORMULAS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CREATE A UNIFORM STATE MANDATE, AND HAS ALL -- ALL THAT BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY DETERMINED TO PROTECT OUR WETLANDS? >> I THINK THAT, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THE STATE ALLOWS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HOME RULE IN THAT A LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS THE ABILITY TO GO BEYOND THE STANDARDS THAT THE STATE HAS ADOPTED, SO -- AND HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, I KNOW THAT YOU DO HAVE A STANDARD THAT GOES BEYOND THE STANDARD THAT'S INCLUDED IN OUR DISTRICTWIDE RULES, WHICH IS THE HALF-ACRE THRESHOLD. GENERALLY SPEAKING, WETLANDS OF LESS THAN A HALF ACRE IN SIZE WE DO NOT REGULATE, GENERALLY SPEAKING. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. BUT -- SO THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE OF HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, YOUR REGULATIONS, WHERE YOU'VE DECIDED AS A COMMUNITY TO GO INTO THIS AREA, EXCEED THOSE THAT ARE ADOPTED BY THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT THAT ARE APPLICABLE ON A 16-COUNTY BASIS. >>BRIAN BLAIR: AND WHO DETERMINES WATER QUALITY? >> THAT'S ALSO ONE OF THE CRITERIA WITHIN OUR ERP PROGRAM IS LOOKING AT DOES THE PROJECT AS DESIGNED MEET THE WATER QUALITY STANDARDS. NOW, THOSE STANDARDS ARE ADOPTED AT THE STATE LEVEL. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: NO. I'VE ALREADY SPOKEN. >>BRIAN BLAIR: YOU'VE ALREADY SPOKEN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS VERY MUCH, AND IF WE NEED YOU, IF YOU WOULD STAY, WE MAY HAVE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS. >> CERTAINLY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: DOC, WHO ELSE DO WE HAVE TO SPEAK? I KNOW JADELL WAS GOING TO SPEAK. >>RICK GARRITY: WE HAVE JADELL FROM EPC, AND WE ALSO HAVE DAN BLOOD WITH PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. WHILE THEY'RE COMING UP, JADELL, COULD YOU PLEASE COME AND SPEAK. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING, HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY REVIEW THE WETLAND PERMITTING PROCESS? HOW MANY DEPARTMENTS? >>RICK GARRITY: HOW MANY DIFFERENT AGENCIES? >>BRIAN BLAIR: YES. >>RICK GARRITY: THE -- WELL, YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE THE LOCAL AGENCY, WHICH IS EPC; THE TAMPA PORT AUTHORITY GETS INVOLVED IN SOME ISSUES, BUT THEY ARE -- WE ACTUALLY DO THE REVIEW FOR THEM, BUT THEY ISSUE THEIR OWN PERMIT, AND THAT'S UNDER CONSIDERATION OF DELEGATION TO US; AND AT THE -- YOU HAVE THE ERP PROCESS, WHICH IS ACTIVITY-BASED -- THERE'S AN ACTIVITY-BASED SPLIT BETWEEN DEP AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT SO THEY'RE NOT BOTH REVIEWING THE SAME PROJECTS, AND THEY ARE ISSUING, I BELIEVE, A FEDERAL PERMIT THROUGH THAT AUTHORITY ALSO, BUT THEN YOU HAVE THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND CERTAIN PROJECTS -- WE'LL LOOK AT CERTAIN PROJECTS SEPARATELY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: DO YOU HAVE DEP AT ALL? >>RICK GARRITY: YES. AS PART. ERP, DEP WILL LOOK AT SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES AND COASTAL CONSTRUCTION, SEAWALLS, MARINAS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: WHO IN THE COUNTY LOOKS AT IT? IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, DON'T WE HAVE SOMEBODY? >>RICK GARRITY: THERE PROBABLY IS, BUT I'M SURE DAN COULD MENTION -- COULD ANSWER THAT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. JADELL, HOW ARE YOU? >>JADELL KERR: ARE YOU READY FOR ME? I'M JADELL KERR, WETLANDS MANAGEMENT DIVISION OF THE EPC. MY ASSIGNMENT THIS MORNING IS TO GENERALLY GO OVER OUR PROGRAM, AND SO WHAT I'LL DOING IS START RIGHT WITH THE WETLAND RULE. THE INTENT OF THE WETLAND RULE IS TO PROVIDE LOCAL STANDARDS FOR THE PROTECTION, MAINTENANCE, AND UTILIZATION OF WETLANDS WITHIN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, WHILE PROVIDING CONSISTENCY WITH STATEWIDE STANDARDS FOR IDENTIFICATION AND DELINEATION OF WETLANDS, RECOGNIZING THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS TO USE THEIR LAND IN A REASONABLE MANNER AS WELL AS THE RIGHTS OF ALL CITIZENS TO PROTECTION AND PURITY OF WATERS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND THEIR ASSOCIATED WETLAND ECOSYSTEMS. THE INTENT GOES ON TO SAY THAT IT SHALL BE THE PRIORITY OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMISSION TO AVOID THE DISTURBANCE OF WETLANDS IN THE COUNTY AND TO ENCOURAGE THEIR USE ONLY FOR PURPOSES WHICH ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THEIR NATURAL FUNCTIONS AND ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS. IT IS THE INTENT OF THE COMMISSION THAT DEVELOPMENT REQUIRING MITIGATION BE A LAST RESORT, USED ONLY WHEN REASONABLE USE OF THE PROPERTY IS OTHERWISE UNAVAILABLE. OUR APPLICATION OF THIS RULE HAS BEEN COUNTYWIDE. IT HAS APPLIED TO CITIZENS, TO INDUSTRY, TO GOVERNMENT AS WELL. IT IS -- A CASE IN POINT THAT I MIGHT POINT OUT TO YOU IS THAT IT WAS UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THIS RULE THAT COMMISSIONER NORMAN BACK IN 1995 CHALLENGED THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT GROUNDWATER PUMPING TO RESTORE WETLANDS AND LAKES IN THIS COUNTY. THERE ARE TWO BASIC KINDS OF REVIEWS THAT WE DO. THERE IS AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S AUTHORIZATION, WHICH COVERS WETLAND IMPACTS AND WETLAND MITIGATION AUTHORIZATIONS. THERE ARE THOSE REVIEWS THAT WE CONSIDER TO BE DE MINIMIS WETLAND IMPACTS, AND THERE'S ALSO MANGROVE TRIMMING. THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE ISSUED BY OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. THERE IS ALSO A COMMENTING PORTION OF OUR REVIEW, WHICH IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT. THESE COMMENTING -- THE COMMENTING THAT WE DO IS FOR -- TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO OTHER GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES. THOSE INCLUDE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT, THE CITY OF TAMPA, THE CITY OF TEMPLE TERRACE, THE CITY OF PLANT CITY, OF COURSE THE TAMPA PORT AUTHORITY. WE PROVIDE COMMENTS TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION. UNDER DIRECTOR'S AUTHORIZATIONS, WE HAVE WETLAND IMPACTS AND MITIGATION. WE DO AN ANALYSIS, LOOKING AT OUR RULE TO DETERMINE WHETHER WETLAND IMPACTS ARE NECESSARY FOR REASONABLE USE, AND IF THEY ARE DETERMINED THAT, THEN WE LOOK AT A MITIGATION PLAN THAT IS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, AND WE GO THROUGH A SERIES OF MONITORING ONCE THAT MITIGATION IS IN THE GROUND TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS SUCCESSFUL. WE ALSO ISSUE PERMITS FOR MISCELLANEOUS ACTIVITIES IN WETLANDS. THOSE WILL INCLUDE ANYTHING FROM DOCKS TO BOARDWALKS, BOAT RAMPS, CULVERT REPLACEMENTS, UTILITY LINES, NUISANCE VEGETATION REMOVAL ON LAKES, THINGS OF THAT ORDER THAT WE CONSIDER TO BE DE MINIMIS. AND THEN ALSO UNDER THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AUTHORIZATIONS, WE HAVE MANGROVE TRIMMING. WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL MANGROVE TRIMMER CERTIFICATION AND A MANGROVE TRIMMING PERMIT. AS YOU'LL RECALL, NOT VERY LONG AGO WE RECEIVED DELEGATION FOR THIS PROGRAM FROM THE DEP, AND WE NOW HAVE A RULE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY FOR ADMINISTERING MANGROVE TRIMMING AND PROTECTION. AS FAR AS COMMENTING TO OTHER GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES, IT'S PROBABLY IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SPECIFICALLY PROVIDES THAT FOR ANY PARCEL CONTAINING A WETLAND OR NATURAL BODY OF WATER, NO PERMIT SHALL BE ISSUED UNTIL THE APPLICATION HAS BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE EPC. THERE'S SIMILAR LANGUAGE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA'S CODES AS WELL. CITY OF TEMPLE TERRACE PROVIDES THAT APPLICATIONS FOR SITE PLANS OR PLAT APPROVALS SHALL BE REFERRED TO THE EPC FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT. AND ALSO THE TAMPA PORT AUTHORITY. WE'RE ACTUALLY WRITTEN INTO THEIR ENABLING ACT TO PROVIDE REVIEW, COMMENT FOR ALL THEIR PROJECTS, AND WE DO THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMPONENT OF THEIR REVIEW. IN THE COMMENTING OF REVIEWS, I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE WE GET THE BIGGEST BANG FOR OUR BUCK. IT ALLOWS US TO ENGAGE IN THE VERY EARLIEST STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT SO THAT WE CAN GUIDE PROJECTS AROUND WETLANDS SO THAT WE DO NOT HAVE AS MANY WETLAND IMPACTS AS MIGHT OTHERWISE BE PROPOSED. WE MAKE COMMENTS FOR ZONINGS, NOT FOR THE LAND USE PORTION OF THAT BUT TO APPRISE THE APPLICANT OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS OF THE PROJECT AND ALSO TO TELL THE COUNTY WHAT KIND OF WETLAND IMPACTS THEY MAY REALIZE IF THE PROJECT -- IF THE REZONING LAND USE IS CHANGED. WE GET INVOLVED IN THE PRELIMINARY PLAT AND PLAN STAGE. THIS IS A VERY GENERAL PROJECT REVIEW. THIS IS THE TIME WHEN THE APPLICANTS JUST SHOW US HOW THEIR PROJECT WILL BE LAID OUT. WE SEE WHERE STORMWATER PONDS ARE GOING TO BE LOCATED, WE SEE WHERE ROADS ARE GOING, WE SEE WHERE BUILDINGS ARE GOING. AT THIS COMMENT WE CAN PROVIDE TO THEM TO TELL THEM THINGS THAT THEY MIGHT NEED TO MOVE, THINGS THAT THEY MIGHT NEED TO CHANGE IN ORDER TO AVOID WETLAND IMPACTS. CONSTRUCTION PLAN AND SUBDIVISION COMMERCIAL PLANS, THESE ARE THE PLANS WHERE WE DO OUR ENGINEERING REVIEW. WE ASSUME THAT AT THIS POINT THAT ANY WETLAND IMPACTS THAT HAVE BEEN SOUGHT HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY THE EPC, AND THIS IS WHERE WE ENGAGE IN MAKING SURE THAT ALL THE WETLANDS THAT ARE REMAINING ON-SITE AND THE MITIGATION AREAS WOULD RECEIVE THE APPROPRIATE HYDRATION TO MAINTAIN THEM. WE DO AS-BUILT REVIEWS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED WAS PERMITTED AS SO, AND WE DO FINAL PLATS TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE, AND ANY NOTIFICATIONS THAT THERE ARE WETLANDS ON THE PROPERTY ARE RECORDED IN THE PUBLIC RECORDS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GO AND SEE IF THERE ARE WETLANDS ON THEIR LOT PRIOR TO PURCHASE. MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, I BELIEVE, IS ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF OUR REVIEW. IN THE MINOR SUBDIVISION PROCESS, WE ARE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT PROPERTIES ARE NOT DIVIDED SUCH THAT THEY CREATE 100% WETLAND PARCELS. THIS PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM COMING IN AND UNKNOWINGLY BUYING A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON TO TRY TO GET IT INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE RULES, IMPACT WETLANDS, AND DO MITIGATION. SO THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PROCESS THAT WE ARE INVOLVED IN. NATURAL RESOURCE PERMITS, WE LOOK AT GRUBBING AND SETBACK VARIANCES, LAND ALTERATIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT NONE OF THESE ACTIVITIES WILL RESULT IN PRIMARY OR SECONDARY WETLAND IMPACTS. WE ARE ALSO VERY MUCH ENGAGED IN PHOSPHATE MINING IN THIS COUNTY. IT MAY INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT BECAUSE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, MOSAIC CAME IN JUST SEVERAL MONTHS AGO AND ASKED THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TO MODIFY THEIR PERMIT BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT BEING ALLOWED TO IMPACT AS MANY WETLANDS AS THEY HAD BEEN ALLOWED TO IMPACT AT THE STATE LEVEL, SO THEY NEEDED TO MODIFY THEIR PERMIT. WE REVIEW HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY'S SCHOOL CONSISTENCY REVIEW PROJECTS. WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PRE-AP WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT PURCHASE PROPERTY THAT HAVE WETLANDS ON THEM THAT WOULD CAUSE THEM A PROBLEM IN TRYING TO DEVELOP THAT PROPERTY FOR A SCHOOL SITE. I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THE TAMPA PORT AUTHORITY. WE CERTAINLY MAKE COMMENTS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND ON AND ON, DRI, ANNEXATION REVIEWS. WE PROVIDE COMMENTS FOR THOSE AS WELL. WE HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN TRYING TO STREAMLINE OUR EFFORTS. WE HAVE A LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING WITH -- OR AGREEMENT WITH THE DEP TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER'S WETLANDS LINES. BACK IN 1997 WE WENT INTO A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING WITH THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, WHICH WE AMENDED AGAIN IN 2005. THAT ALLOWS US TO DO DELINEATIONS THAT THE OTHER AGENCY WILL ACCEPT SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE STAFF HAVING TO VISIT THE SITE DOING DELINEATIONS. WE DO CONDUCT ALL THE MITIGATION COMPLIANCE FOR THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. WE DO CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS ON POTENTIAL WETLAND IMPACTS FOR THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. WE RESPOND TO APPROXIMATELY 60 CITIZEN COMPLAINTS PER MONTH. AS I SAID, WE HAVE A DEDICATED STAFF PERSON THAT DOES AS- BUILT REVIEWS TO MAKE SURE THAT PROJECTS ARE CONSTRUCTED AS THEY ARE PERMITTED. WE CONDUCT SITE INSPECTIONS FOR EROSION CONTROL DURING THE PERMITTING PROCESS, AND WE CONDUCT MITIGATION MONITORING COMPLIANCE UNTIL THE SITE IS SUCCESSFUL AND READY TO BE RELEASED. AND THAT IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROGRAM, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, CERTAINLY I'M READY TO ANSWER THEM. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. BOARD MEMBERS? JADELL, I'D LIKE TO KNOW, YOU -- IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP. THEY SAY THAT YOU PROTECT THE HALF ACRES, AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU DO -- HOW MANY HALF-ACRE PERMITS DID YOU PROTECT LAST YEAR? >>JADELL KERR: WE DO NOT KEEP THAT KIND OF DATA. WE KEEP PROJECT DATA. WE HAVE A DATABASE THAT SHOWS WHAT KIND OF WETLANDS WERE IMPACTED AND THE AMOUNT OF WETLANDS THAT WERE IMPACTED, WHAT IS BEING MITIGATED TO REPLACE THOSE WETLAND IMPACTS, BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE SITES THAT HAVE HALF-ACRE WETLANDS ON THEM. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. I KNOW THAT -- YOU KNOW, AS WE STATED THAT WE -- THE TAXPAYERS SPEND -- HAVE TO PAY A HALF A MILL ON THEIR AD VALOREM, WHICH EQUATES TO ALMOST $40 MILLION THAT WE PAY TO SWFWMD RIGHT NOW, AND I GUESS THE WETLAND BUDGET IS ABOUT $2.4 MILLION, BUT I JUST REALIZED HOW MANY OTHER THINGS THAT YOU GUYS DO BESIDES WETLAND JURISDICTIONS. YOU'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE, WHICH IS -- YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB WITH AIR, WITH NOISE, JUST -- VERY SUCCESSFUL JOB AT THE AMPHITHEATRE, THE CLEAN AIR. WE LOST OUR CMAQ MONEY BECAUSE WE DID SUCH A GOOD JOB, I GUESS, AND I WANTED TO COMMEND YOU ON THAT, BUT THE TALK OF -- THE BIG THING HERE IS -- THAT I SEE IS THAT WE'RE FACED WITH -- THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS THE DUPLICATIONS, THE -- THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE REVIEWING THE PERMITTING PROCESS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST THE BUDGET THAT YOU PAY, THE EFFICIENCY LIES IN THE TIME. TIME IS MONEY. WHEN SOMEBODY HAS TO WAIT ON A PLAN FOR A PLAN REVIEW, THE COST OF THAT TO THE CONSUMER CONTINUALLY RISES, SO OUR BOARD IS NOW BEING CHALLENGED WITH WAYS TO, YOU KNOW, TRIM THE BUDGET AND FIND EFFICIENCIES AND ALSO HELP PEOPLE AFFORD THE AMERICAN DREAM OF HOME OWNERSHIP. AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HERE IS SAYING THAT YOU GUYS DO A BAD JOB. I THINK YOU DO A GOOD JOB. AND I BELIEVE, FROM WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM SWFWMD, THAT THEY DO A GOOD JOB AS WELL, AND WITH THAT SAID, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXPLANATION. >>JADELL KERR: OKAY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, JADELL. ROSE. EXCUSE ME. COMMISSIONER FERLITA. YOU'RE TOO GOOD, ROSIE. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, THAT WASN'T MY LIGHT, BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO WEIGH IN. >>MARK SHARPE: THAT'S MINE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I'M SORRY. COMMISSIONER SHARPE. I'M USED TO THREE. >>ROSE FERLITA: GO AHEAD. I HAD SOME COMMENTS LATER. >>BRIAN BLAIR: GO AHEAD. >>MARK SHARPE: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE TIME DELAYS. I CAME OUT AND VISITED YOUR -- YOUR OFFICE, AND WE TALKED ABOUT PROCESSING AND THINGS WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO TO SPEED UP THE PROCESS, AND I HOPE WE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT THAT AS WELL, AND I DON'T WANT TO -- -- MY NEXT QUESTION TO DING THE DEVELOPERS OR THE APPLICANTS, BUT IS IT ACCURATE TO SUGGEST THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU RECEIVE APPLICATIONS WHICH ARE INCOMPLETE? >>JADELL KERR: IT'S THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME. >>MARK SHARPE: WOULD THAT -- WOULD AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION IN ANY WAY SLOW UP THE PROCESS? >>JADELL KERR: ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE I AM REQUIRED TO REVIEW EVERYTHING THAT I RECEIVE, AND IF THE APPLICATION COMES TO MY OFFICE WITHOUT PERTINENT INFORMATION ON IT, I AM STILL REQUIRED TO REVIEW THAT, AND IF I HAVE STAFF THAT IS REVIEWING THAT AND IT'S NOT READY FOR REVIEW, IT'S NOT BEEN PROPERLY DOCUMENTED FOR REVIEW, THEN I HAVE STAFF THAT'S LITERALLY WASTING THEIR TIME. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. SO HOPEFULLY WHAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO AS WE MOVE FORWARD IS FIND WAYS TO WORK WITH THE APPLICANTS TO ASSIST THEM IN PROVIDING APPLICATIONS THE FIRST TIME WHICH ARE COMPLETE. BECAUSE I THINK SOMETIMES THAT'S BEEN A FRUSTRATION. PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THE APPLICATION'S GONE IN, IT'S INCOMPLETE, AND IT TAKES TIME. OKAY. OTHER QUESTION REGARDING MITIGATION AS A LAST RESORT. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT JUST FOR A FEW SECONDS. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE OF PHILOSOPHY, PERHAPS, ABOUT HOW WE PROTECT THE WETLANDS. SOME MIGHT SAY YOU -- YOU HAVE A -- YOU HAVE A LAND THAT YOU WANT TO DEVELOP AND AN APPLICANT COMES IN AND SAYS, WE WANT TO DEVELOP THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY AND THERE'S SOME WETLANDS THERE. NOW, I GUESS THE QUICKEST WAY TO DO IT IS TO SAY, WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, A PORTION OF THAT WETLANDS -- A PORTION OF THAT PROPERTY, THEY'RE WETLANDS. WE'LL JUST GO AHEAD TO A MITIGATION BANK SOMEWHERE, AND YOU CAN BUY THE -- >>JADELL KERR: CREDITS. >>MARK SHARPE: -- BUY THE CREDITS. YOU DON'T DO THAT -- OR YOU DO THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU -- THAT'S NOT HOW YOU START THE PROCESS. >>JADELL KERR: THAT'S NOT WHERE WE START. >>MARK SHARPE: WHY? >>JADELL KERR: BECAUSE WE FEEL THAT WETLANDS NEED TO BE AVOIDED FIRST, AND MOST OF THE TIME THEY CAN BE AVOIDED FIRST, AND WETLANDS IN THEIR NATURAL CONDITION ARE MORE CAPABLE OF SURVIVING THAN THOSE WETLANDS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BY PEOPLE. WETLAND MITIGATION IS SOMETHING THAT PROVIDES RELIEF FOR DEVELOPMENT FOR DEVELOPERS. IF YOU DID NOT HAVE WETLAND MITIGATION, YOU REALLY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DEVELOP LAND, BUT MITIGATION IS ALSO RISKY BUSINESS. YOU ARE BASICALLY TRYING TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT YOU -- YOU HOPE BY THE DESIGN THAT YOU'VE GIVEN IT IS GOING TO BE IN THE FUTURE -- WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF OF IT, IS GOING TO SURVIVE WITHOUT INTERVENTION BY MAN AGAIN. SO WHAT WE WANT TO DO AT EPC IS TO PREVENT THE WETLAND IMPACT IN THE FIRST PLACE IF WE CAN, AND THAT IS OUR GOAL. AND WE HAVE FOUND THAT BY BEING ENGAGED IN THIS PROCESS, IT WORKS REALLY VERY WELL. >>MARK SHARPE: I'M NOT SURE IF THIS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO YOU OR TO DR. GARRITY, BUT I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN -- WE'VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT CLASSIFICATION OF THE WETLANDS. DO WE HAVE SEPARATE CLASSIFICATIONS AT THIS TIME, IS -- OR IS A WETLAND A WETLAND? >>JADELL KERR: A WETLAND IS A WETLAND BY OUR RULE. WE HAVE A POLICY THAT WE HAVE BEEN USING, AGAIN, THAT WAS PUT INTO PLACE TO PROVIDE RELIEF. WHEN WE ADOPTED THE UNIFORM DELINEATION METHODOLOGY BACK IN 1994, THAT DELINEATION METHODOLOGY REQUIRED US TO CLAIM EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN THE RULE CRITERIA FOR EXERCISING JURISDICTION OVER A WETLAND, AND SO THAT MEANT THAT WE WERE FORCED TO CLAIM CATTLE PONDS, THAT MEANT THAT WE WERE FORCED TO CLAIM DITCHES, THAT MEANT THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO CLAIM THOSE AREAS THAT WE KNEW WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC FOR PEOPLE. WE WERE ACTUALLY AT THE TABLE WITH DEP WHEN THOSE RULES WERE BEING DEVELOPED, AND WE FELT THAT THIS WOULD BE A PROBLEM, BUT IT WAS DEP'S INTENT AT THE TIME THAT THOSE AREAS STILL BE DETERMINED TO BE WETLAND, SO BY RULE, WE HAVE TO CLAIM THEM. BUT IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SOME RELIEF FOR THAT, WE ENDED UP WITH A POLICY THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO IMPACT UPLAND-CUT DITCHES, UPLAND-CUT CATTLE PONDS THAT ARE LESS THAN AN ACRE, AND NOT HAVE TO DO MITIGATION, SO YOU HAVE A QUALIFICATION OF WETLAND IN THAT REGARD, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE A QUALIFICATION IN THE RULE. >>MARK SHARPE: COULD WE -- IF WE LOOKED AT THE EXEMPTION RULE AND FOUND WAYS TO FURTHER CLARIFY OR FURTHER DELINEATE THE DIFFERENT WETLANDS, WOULD THAT MAKE -- I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE, DR. GARRITY. IT SEEMS TO BE A FRUSTRATION I'M HEARING FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY. >>RICK GARRITY: IN FACT, COMMISSIONER, THAT IS THE RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF, JADELL AND HER STAFF AND OF MYSELF AND OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL IS THAT WE MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. >>MARK SHARPE: GOOD. AND THEN FINALLY, JUST, AGAIN, WITH REGARD TO PROCESS. IF WE HAD SOME FORM OF A CHECKLIST OF SOME SORT THAT PEOPLE -- AS YOU WALKED IN, WE -- DO WE HAVE A CHECKLIST? >>JADELL KERR: WE DON'T HAVE A CHECKLIST, BUT BRILLIANT MINDS. WE ARE -- WE ARE WORKING WITH PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT RIGHT NOW, AND I HAVE SEEN THE CHECKLIST COME ACROSS MY DESK JUST THIS WEEK. THEY ARE TRYING TO DEVELOP A CHECKLIST THAT INCLUDES ALL OF OUR INPUT. THEY HAVE AN INTAKE CLERK NOW, AND I BELIEVE THEY'RE REQUIRING AN APPOINTMENT TO SUBMIT PLANS SO THAT THEY CAN GO THROUGH THAT CHECKLIST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS IN THERE. AND SO I THINK THIS COULD RELIEVE A LOT OF OUR PROBLEMS. SO THE CHECKLIST IS UNDERWAY. >>MARK SHARPE: I'M NOT TRYING TO ADD TO THE WORKLOAD, BUT WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO HAVE THIS ON-LINE, THIS INFORMATION ON-LINE, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GO TO IT AND SEE WHERE THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS WITHOUT HAVING TO EVEN PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL? >>JADELL KERR: I DON'T THINK EPC WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM PUTTING IT ON-LINE, AND I WOULD IMAGINE THAT PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT WILL DO THE SAME. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I THINK THAT'S BEEN FUNDED, AS A MATTER OF FACT, FOR PGM. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SHARPE. COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: MITIGATION, I'M GOING TO ASK A QUESTION OF YOU. >>JADELL KERR: OKAY. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WHAT'S THE SUCCESS, YOU KNOW? HOW FAR DO WE GO BACK AND LOOK AT OLD MITIGATED PROJECTS TO SEE IF THEY'RE WORKING? AND YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING TOO THAT JUST CAUGHT MY ATTENTION WHEN YOU DEVELOP A MITIGATED PROPERTY. ARE YOU HAVING TO GO BACK TO THEM QUITE OFTEN? I MEAN, IS -- HOW OFTEN ARE YOU MAKING HOUSE CALLS, I GUESS IS WHAT -- >>JADELL KERR: WE HAVE A COMPLIANCE PROGRAM AT EPC. WHILE A PROJECT IS IN THE MONITORING PHASE, WE GO OUT THERE TWO TIMES A YEAR TO SEE HOW IT'S FARING. IT HAS TO MEET A CERTAIN SUCCESS CRITERIA THAT IS ESTABLISHED BY ITS PERMIT CONDITIONS, AND WE DO NOT RELEASE IT UNTIL IT HAS MET THAT PERMIT CRITERIA, AND SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT MITIGATION KIND OF LIKE YOU DO RAISING YOUR CHILDREN. YOU RAISE THEM UP AND YOU GIVE THEM ALL THE TOOLS THAT THEY NEED TO SURVIVE AND YOU SEND THEM OUT INTO THE WORLD, AND BY GOLLY, YOU HOPE THEY DO A GREAT JOB WHILE THEY'RE OUT THERE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: RIGHT NOW DO WE HAVE MITIGATED PROJECTS THAT ARE TEENAGERS OR -- >>JADELL KERR: WE HAVE SOME MITIGATED PROJECTS THAT ARE ADULTS. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. >>JADELL KERR: AND SOME OF THEM HAVE FARED VERY WELL. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE KIND OF DID A HAPPENSTANCE PROJECT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. WE HAD A REPORTER COME OUT AND -- AND RANDOMLY SELECT PROJECTS FROM OUR FILES TO GO OUT AND SEE CLOSED MITIGATION SITES, AND I BELIEVE THE REPORT BACK WAS THAT THOSE MITIGATION SITES HAD FARED PRETTY WELL. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH. AND IN THIS PROCESS, I KNOW EPC SAYS YOU CANNOT IMPACT WETLANDS, AND DEP SAYS, IF YOU DO, THEN YOU MITIGATE. WHEN YOU'RE DRAWING THE LINE, DO YOU THINK THAT'S PART OF OUR PROBLEM HERE IS, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT A LANDOWNER WHO SAYS, WELL, I DON'T LIKE YOU FOLKS TELLING ME I CAN'T PUT A SHOPPING CENTER HERE AND YOU THINK THAT I CAN GET THE SAME VALUE WITH SOME OTHER TYPE OF PROJECTS -- TELL ME ABOUT THAT PROCESS AND HOW IS THAT RECEIVED AND HOW ARE YOU WORKING THROUGH THAT? >>JADELL KERR: WELL, I THINK IT'S A PROCESS THAT HAS -- IT'S BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 1985. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: UH-HUH. >>JADELL KERR: AND I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT WAY TO APPROACH THIS BECAUSE WHAT YOU DO IS YOU START OUT WITH A BLANK CANVAS, AND YOU START OUT WITH THE CONSTRAINTS OF THE LAND, AND YOU START TO PLACE ALL THE DEVELOPMENT CONSTRAINTS ON THE PROPERTY, THOSE THAT ARE IMPOSED BY OTHER GOVERNMENT, HEALTH AND SAFETY, FIRE CODES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND AS YOU DO THAT, YOU CHIP DOWN TO WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE DEVELOPER TO MAKE REASONABLE USE OF HIS PROPERTY. IT'S AN EXERCISE THAT MAYBE THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH, BUT I STILL BELIEVE THAT IT IS ONE THAT YIELDS THE LEAST AMOUNT OF WETLAND IMPACTS ON A PROPERTY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, MR. -- ARE YOU DONE? I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I THINK DR. GARRITY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION AT OUR LAST MEETING, THAT 92.5% OF THE MITIGATION IS SUCCESSFUL AND THE OTHER -- WE BASICALLY HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT IS WHAT YOU SAID BECAUSE WE PUSHED THE OTHER 7.5 ALONG, ACCORDING TO YOUR WORDS, UNTIL THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL. >>JADELL KERR: THAT'S CORRECT. THEY ARE -- 92% OF THEM ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR PERMIT CONDITIONS WHILE WE'RE IN THE MONITORING PHASE, AND WE ARE CONSTANTLY WORKING WITH THOSE OTHER 8% OR SO TO BRING THEM UP TO THE STANDARD THAT'S REQUIRED BY THEIR PERMIT CONDITIONS. >>RICK GARRITY: COMMISSIONER, IF I COULD JUST CLARIFY ONE THING. OUR RULE DOES NOT SAY THAT YOU CANNOT IMPACT WETLANDS. IT SAYS THAT -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: I UNDERSTAND. >>RICK GARRITY: -- YOU TRY NOT TO IMPACT WETLANDS UNTIL YOU'RE BEING DENIED REASONABLE USE, AND THEN THAT DETERMINATION IS THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT JADELL JUST WALKED THROUGH. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. HAS THERE -- HAS THERE EVER BEEN A CASE WHERE YOU -- WHERE THE STATE HAS APPROVED SOMETHING AND YOU HAVE TURNED AROUND AND NOT APPROVED SOMETHING AND THERE WAS LITIGATION IN -- WHICH -- YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO LITIGATE AFTER THE STATE'S APPROVED SOMETHING? >>JADELL KERR: LITIGATE IN TERMS OF -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: SUE BECAUSE THE STATE DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT? >>JADELL KERR: NO, WE HAVE NOT DONE THAT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. AND AS FAR AS STRINGENT -- I HEARD THAT. I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE STATE'S LAW. WHAT IS OUR LAW FOR -- IF SOMEBODY VIOLATES A WETLAND, WHAT'S YOUR LAW? WHAT IS -- HOW ARE THEY PUNISHED? >>JADELL KERR: WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PUNISH PEOPLE. WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS TO GET THE WETLAND RESTORED AND CORRECTED. SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS TO WORK WITH THEM TO RESOLVE THEIR VIOLATION. >>BRIAN BLAIR: WELL, IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE STATE SAYS THAT -- HERE, ANY PERSON WHO WILLFULLY COMMITS A VIOLATION SPECIFIED IN PARAGRAPH 1 -- WHICH IS REGARDING THE WETLANDS -- IS GUILTY OF A FELONY OF THE THIRD DEGREE, PUNISHABLE AS PROVIDED IN STATUTE 775.082 AND 775.083 BY A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN $50,000 OR BY IMPRISONMENT FOR FIVE YEARS OR BY BOTH FOR EACH OFFENSE EACH DAY DURING ANY PORTION OF WHICH SUCH VIOLATION OCCURS. THAT'S PRETTY STRICT, BUT ANYWAY, THANK YOU. ANYMORE -- WHO'S FOUR? COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU. JADELL, I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED BY CHAIRMAN BLAIR'S QUESTION, BUT MAYBE I CAN ASK IT MY WAY, THAT WAY I CAN BE CLARIFIED. WAS -- HAS SWFWMD EVER APPROVED ANYTHING THAT OUR EPC TURNED DOWN, AND HAVE WE GONE TO LITIGATION AND THE EPC HAS LOST, SAYING THAT THE STATE WAS RIGHT RATHER THAN -- >>JADELL KERR: NO, SIR. AS FAR AS I KNOW, NOTHING HAS GONE TO LITIGATION. WE HAVE HAD INSTANCES WHERE THINGS HAVE BEEN APPROVED THAT EPC HAS NOT APPROVED. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. >>JADELL KERR: I AM WORKING ON A SITE RIGHT NOW WHERE A PERMIT WAS ISSUED BY THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT UP IN THE FOREST HILLS PART OF THE COUNTY. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. >>JADELL KERR: WHICH UNDER OUR REVIEW, WE BELIEVE THAT IT WOULD DROP ONE OF THE LAKE LEVELS OUT THERE APPROXIMATELY TWO FEET. SO WE ARE WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT TO -- AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT HAS COME ONBOARD TO HELP US RESOLVE THIS SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE AN IMPACT TO THAT LAKE. >>KEVIN WHITE: AND THE OTHER QUESTION I ASKED DR. GARRITY THE OTHER DAY IN OUR MEETING AT OUR OFFICE AND HE COULDN'T ANSWER IT, BUT MAYBE SOME OF THE STAFF HERE MAYBE IN THE FUTURE COULD -- WE ALL SEEM TO TALK ABOUT THE BUILDING INDUSTRY AND THE IMPACT ON OUR WATER AND OUR WETLANDS BASED ON THE INCREASED CONSTRUCTION THAT WE HAVE IN OUR COMMUNITY. IS RECLAIMED WATER A VIABLE OPTION FOR BUILDERS TO USE, LIKE IN THE CONCRETE INDUSTRY AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, OR ARE THERE IMPURITIES OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE IN RECLAIMED WATER THAT WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO USE THAT? NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF THESE AREAS AREN'T IN A RECLAIMED WATER AREA, BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE TRUCKS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT COULD GET WATER TO THEM VERSUS USING OUR TREATED WATER AND OUR MAIN WATER SYSTEM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THAT. IF NOT, WE'LL -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST A QUESTION THAT -- >>JADELL KERR: I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION, BUT I'M REALLY NOT QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. >>KEVIN WHITE: THAT'S FINE. MAYBE SOMEBODY THAT'S LISTENING WILL GET WITH MY OFFICE. THAT'S ALSO A VIABLE OPTION, BECAUSE IF WE'RE NOT TAKING OUR NATURAL RESOURCES, IF WE'RE USING RECLAIMED WATER FOR CERTAIN THINGS NOW AND THEN -- THERE'S ALSO CONCERNS NOW OF THE LOW USAGE OF RECLAIMED WATER IN CERTAIN AREAS IS CAUSING THE LINES TO BE STAGNANT AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, SO THIS MAY BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO LOOK INTO THAT AS -- >>JADELL KERR: CERTAINLY SOMETHING TO DISCUSS. >>RICK GARRITY: JUST A QUICK ANSWER, COMMISSIONER, AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE ETHANOL PLANT THAT HAS JUST BEEN PERMITTED NEEDS TO USE A LOT OF WATER, AND THAT COULD BE RECLAIMED WATER, AND THE LINES ARE NOT THERE YET, BUT WE'RE HOPING THAT THEY CAN GET THERE. SO GENERALLY, YES. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU. >>BRIAN BLAIR: NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR JADELL? THANK YOU, JADELL. GOOD JOB. WE'RE WINDING DOWN REAL QUICK. IF YOU DON'T MIND, DAN, IT'S GOT TO BE QUICK AS POSSIBLE. THANK YOU AND WELCOME. >>DAN BLOOD: THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS. DANIEL BLOOD, PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT. LET ME TELL YOU THREE THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE WORKED WITH DR. GARRITY AND HIS STAFF IN LOOKING AT THE DELEGATION PROCESS AND ALSO THE THINGS THAT WE'RE PERMITTING THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED BY PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT. SECOND, WE DO HAVE REGULATIONS IN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR STORMWATER THAT WE -- THAT IS PART OF THIS REVIEW PROCESS, BOTH IN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND IN OUR STORMWATER TECHNICAL MANUAL. WE ARE AVAILABLE TO, YOU KNOW, ANSWER DETAILED QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. OUR LEAD STORMWATER ENGINEER, RICK CABRERA, IS HERE WHO CAN TELL YOU IN A COUPLE MINUTES -- AND WE'LL KEEP IT BRIEF -- THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUR REGULATIONS IF YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE US DO THAT. >>KEVIN WHITE: MR. CHAIRMAN, JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR MR. BLOOD. SO DOES THAT MAKE THAT PROCESS DUPLICATIVE, IF WE'RE COMING THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS, WE HAVE TO COME THROUGH YOUR ORGANIZATION AGAIN THROUGH EPC? SO IS IT HAVING TO COME THROUGH TWICE YOUR DEPARTMENT AGAIN? >>DAN BLOOD: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR STORMWATER REVIEWS; RIGHT? STORMWATER REVIEWS ARE -- WE HAVE SOME OF THE SAME CRITERIA THAT SWFWMD HAS, YES. WE LOOK AT THE SAME -- SOME OF THE SAME THINGS THAT SWFWMD HAS IN ADDITION TO THE LOCAL THINGS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR OWN TECHNICAL MANUAL THAT ARE NOT IN THE STATE REGULATION. SO THERE IS -- THERE IS SOME AMOUNT OF THE SAME THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT WITH SWFWMD, AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR OWN THINGS ALSO. >>KEVIN WHITE: YOU'RE HAVING TO LOOK AT IT TWICE? >>DAN BLOOD: YES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. WE'LL GET TWO MINUTES -- DID YOU SAY YOU WANTED YOUR ENGINEER, DAN? >>DAN BLOOD: RICK. THIS IS RICK CABRERA, OUR LEAD STORMWATER ENGINEER. HE'S GOING TO GIVE YOU A VERY SHORT DESCRIPTION OF THE THINGS THAT WE REVIEW FOR AND ALSO WHAT'S SIMILAR TO SWFWMD'S CRITERIA. >>RICK CABRERA: GOOD MORNING. I'M RICK CABRERA WITH THE STORMWATER REVIEW SECTION OF PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT. JUST A QUICK OVERVIEW OF WHAT WE HAVE OR SOME OF THE DUPLICATIONS BETWEEN SWFWMD, THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AND OUR REQUIREMENTS DEALING WITH STRICTLY THE STORMWATER ASPECTS OF IT. THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT AND PLANNING AND GROWTH BOTH LOOK AT ESSENTIALLY THE DESIGN OF THE STORMWATER POND TO REGULATE THE RATE OF OUTFALL FROM THE PONDS ONTO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY SO AS TO MAINTAIN THE EXISTING DRAINAGE PATTERNS THAT ARE LEAVING THE SITE SO AS NOT TO -- THANK -- ADVERSELY IMPACT THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES. WHERE WE DO START TO DIFFER IS THAT THE PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT ALSO LOOKS AT WHAT THE FUNCTION OF THE INTERNAL STORMWATER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM IS INASMUCH AS CURB AND GUTTER, DITCHES, ADDITIONAL FREE BOARD, THE LOT GRADING, IMPACTS TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES AS FAR AS HOW THE PATTERNS THAT MAY BE IMPACTED BY THE DEVELOPMENT ARE MAINTAINED, EITHER THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT OR AROUND THE DEVELOPMENT. AND I GUESS POST-CONSTRUCTION, WHERE WE LEAVE THINGS OFF TO THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IS THEY HAVE BIENNIAL INSPECTION'S REQUIRED OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES INASMUCH AS THE STORMWATER POND ITSELF TO MAKE SURE THAT IT FUNCTIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PERMIT. THOSE INSPECTIONS ARE REQUIRED BIANNUALLY. I BELIEVE THE PERMIT, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, IS FOR 20 YEARS AND THAT IT AUTOMATICALLY STARTS OVER AGAIN PERPETUALLY ON 20-YEAR INCREMENTS, AND THOSE INSPECTIONS ARE REQUIRED THROUGHOUT THE LIFE OF THE PERMIT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: [INAUDIBLE] >> THAT'S KIND OF LIKE IT IN A NUTSHELL. IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THANK YOU AGAIN. COMMISSIONER -- AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS DIRECTED TO YOU AS MUCH AS PART OF THE QUESTION THAT KEVIN ASKED, BUT IN THESE TYPES OF REGULATIONS, YOU HAVE FLOOD CONTROL, YOU GOT WETLAND ECOLOGY, YOU GOT WATER QUALITY, STORMWATER, WATER RUNOFF, AND AQUIFER RECHARGE, AND WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHO'S DOUBLING UP AND WHERE, IS THAT NOT RIGHT, AND -- AND THAT'S A CONCERN. I KNOW WE'VE GONE ON A COUPLE HOURS NOW WITH WHERE WE NEED TO HEAD WITH THIS, AND I'M -- TO UNDERSTAND WHO'S DOING THE DUPLICATION, YOU KNOW, HOW ARE WE REVIEWING THIS TO SEE WHERE THERE'S DUPLICITY, AND I KNOW I'M NOT AT A POINT TO MAKE A DECISION TODAY IF WE'VE GOT DUPLICATION. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OTHER FOLKS WE HAVE THAT ARE -- HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE DO WE HAVE WHO ARE COMING TO GIVE TESTIMONY? >>BRIAN BLAIR: NONE. >>RICK GARRITY: THAT'S IT, COMMISSIONER. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: BUT I'M JUST -- YOU KNOW, I'M IN THE LEARNING MODE. YOU KNOW, I HAVE NO INTEREST, AND I SAID THIS SEVERAL TIMES, IN DIMINISHING THE REGULATIONS AND DOING ANYTHING THAT WILL HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON OUR WETLANDS. DON'T HAVE ANY INTEREST IN THAT. BUT WHAT I DO HAVE A KEEN INTEREST ON IS TAKING THE TESTIMONY THAT I'VE HEARD TODAY AND STUDYING THIS AND HAVING A MEETING THAT'S SPECIFICALLY STRUCTURED, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO CHAIR IT, BE HAPPY TO HELP CONDUCT THE MEETING HERE IN THE CHAMBERS TO COME TO SOME CONCLUSIONS ON THAT, BUT I'M -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU, AND MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. I PRETTY MUCH AGREE. I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS THAT I WANT TO MAKE, AND IT'S NOT DIRECTED TO YOU, SIR, SO YOU CAN STAND THERE IF YOU WANT TO, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. >> OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. >>ROSE FERLITA: THANK YOU. JUST A COUPLE OF COMMENTS ON SOME DISCUSSION WE'VE HAD. FIRST OF ALL, WITH WHAT DR. GARRITY SAID ON THE PORT AUTHORITY -- EXCUSE ME -- I'M HAPPY TO SEE THAT SO FAR THEY'VE DELEGATED THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANGROVE REGULATION PERMITTING, ET CETERA, TO YOU BECAUSE THAT ELIMINATES THAT DUPLICATION, AND SO, OF COURSE, YOU'RE GETTING SOME EXTRA REVENUE THERE THAT WILL GO TO THE COST OF STAFF. TO THAT SAME POINT -- BY THE WAY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THIS, DR. GARRITY, BUT AT THE LAST MEETING I DID BRING THAT SAME ISSUE UP ABOUT PERMITS FOR DOCKS AND SEAWALLS AND THOSE TYPE OF DELEGATIONS FOR THEM, AND OUR ATTORNEY ON THE PORT SAID -- CHARLES KLUG -- SAID THAT WOULD COME UP NEXT MONTH. THEY WOULD BE DELIGHTED TO LOOK INTO THAT POSSIBILITY, BECAUSE, ACTUALLY, AGAIN, THE EPC IS DOING THE MAJORITY PART OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW, AND THEN THEY'RE USING THEIR STAFF TO GO AHEAD AND FINISH OFF THE PERMIT PROCESS, SO THERE AGAIN, WE'RE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE ADDITIONAL FEES, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE STAFF, YOU'RE TAKING ON THAT INSTEAD OF SPLITTING IT AND OVERLAPPING, AND PERHAPS, IN SOME CASE, DUPLICATION, AND CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE A GOOD BOSS -- AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE -- YOU WILL MAKE THE BEST USE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES. YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE SOME OPPORTUNITY OF CROSS-USE IN TERMS OF WHEN YOU HAVE DOWN TIME HERE, YOU CAN USE THAT SAME STAFF TO DO SOMETHING ELSE. THAT BEING SAID ABOUT THAT, I'M HAPPY THAT THAT'S MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. NOW, THE MAIN CONCERN I HAVE IS ABOUT THE CONVERSATION THAT PREDOMINANTLY COMMISSIONER NORMAN HAD AND THE SWFWMD REPRESENTATIVE -- I'M SORRY, SIR, I DON'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME -- BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE GOOD SENSE. I MEAN, IT IS A NO-BRAINER. IN FACT, IF WE SAID, OKAY, WE WOULD TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY BUT NOT GET ANY OF THE FEES, WELL, WE'RE NOT BEING VERY RESPONSIBLE AND WE'RE NOT BEING SMART BUSINESSPEOPLE, SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE INTENT. ABSOLUTELY, IT IS NOT THE INTENT, SO BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO DO THAT, TO AVOID DUPLICATION AND TO -- TO ACCEPT DELEGATION -- AND I THINK DEP IS ONBOARD FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN -- WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE SWFWMD ISSUE, AND THAT'S FINE, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE TAKING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. WE NEED TO FINISH THAT FEASIBILITY STUDY BECAUSE YOU SAID - - NOT VERY STRONGLY, BUT I WAS LISTENING WHEN OUR COMMISSIONER HAD SOME LEGITIMATE CONCERNS ABOUT, WELL, IF WE TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY, WE DON'T GET THE REVENUE THAT THEY DO FROM THE AD VALOREM FEES, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE, AND YOU SAID, MAYBE NOT. WELL, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT MAYBE NOT MEANS YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE EFFICIENT USE OF YOUR STAFF, YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO THAT SAME CONFERENCE TABLE THAT THIS GENTLEMAN TALKED ABOUT IN TERMS OF BEING WILLING TO DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITIES, BUT AT SOME POINT, ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXTRACT THOSE -- THOSE AD VALOREM FEES PER SE, THEY'RE PERHAPS IS PROBABLY SOME INTENTION IN YOUR PLAN TO HAVE SOME BLENDING, AND SO THEN THAT WOULD CAUSE NOT A NECESSARY INCREASE IN THE STAFF THAT YOU HAVE, BUT I'M SPECULATING. MY POINT, GENTLEMEN, IS THIS. WE'RE GETTING TESTIMONY, WE'RE BUILDING A LOT OF DATA. WE EACH CAN MAKE OUR OWN CONCLUSIONS, AND THIS SHOULD BE REASONABLE AND VERY BROAD SPECTRUM, BUT WE ASKED DR. GARRITY TO DO A FEASIBILITY STUDY. WE'RE NOT THERE YET. SO JUST LIKE MR. HIGGINBOTHAM, I AM READY TO CONTINUE LOOKING AT THIS, BUT I THINK IT WOULDN'T BE SMART, I THINK IT WOULDN'T BE GOOD GOVERNMENT IF WE WENT ON AHEAD AND TOOK ACTION TODAY. I -- THAT'S MY POSITION AT THIS POINT. WE'RE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT WE'VE CHARGED YOU WITH THAT RESPONSIBILITY, AND IT'S LIKE MAKING A DECISION BEFORE WE GET THE INFORMATION. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY GOOD SENSE TO ME, SO I'M NOT PREPARED TO ACT ON ANYTHING AS WELL TODAY. AND ONE LAST COMMENT ABOUT THE RECLAIMED WATER. MR. WHITE, YOU BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT, AND YOU, DR. GARRITY, TALKED ABOUT THE ETHANOL PLANT IF THAT GOES FORWARD, AND I THINK RECLAIMED MAKES SENSE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF USING THE RECLAIMED INSTEAD OF POTABLE, AND OF COURSE, THE COMPANY WOULD WANT IT BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER, BUT I THINK THE ISSUE THERE IS TO LOOK AT BIG USERS LIKE THEM AND PERHAPS MAYBE TECO AT BIG BEND, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. THAT'S IN THE PROCESS, AND THAT'S VERY SMART USAGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INDULGENCE, MR. CHAIRMAN. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER FERLITA. WE HAVE TO WIND DOWN HERE. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: LET ME SAY, FOLKS, AND I -- THIS IS SEVERAL MEETINGS BACK. I MADE A COMMENT TO EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM, IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT IF YOU -- IF YOU WANT EVERYTHING TO STAY AS IS AND EVERYTHING'S GOING ALONG ALL RIGHT, YOU BETTER CONTACT YOUR STATE REPRESENTATIVES OR YOUR LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE NOT IN CHARGE ANYMORE WHEN IT COMES TO THE COST-CUTTING STUFF. WE'RE MANDATED NOW, AND IT'S COMING IN SEVERAL PHASES, THAT WE HAVE ALREADY PASSED UNANIMOUSLY ON THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO DIRECT OUR ADMINISTRATOR TO FIND CUTS AND BRING THEM BACK AS A RECOMMENDATION. YOU CAN DO THE STUDIES ALL DAY LONG, BUT I'M TELLING YOU I'M GOING TO SUPPORT -- WHEN SHE COMES BACK AND MAKES SOME KIND OF RECOMMENDATIONS ON -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET THERE. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AD VALOREM TAXES, THAT'S THE ARENA THAT WE'RE ALL DEALING WITH, AD VALOREM TAXES. I'M HEARING MEMBERS TODAY AREN'T PREPARED AND DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. THAT'S FINE, BUT I'M TELLING YOU, PAT BEAN'S NOT SITTING IN THIS MEETING TODAY, AND SHE'S OUT LOOKING AT WAYS -- HARD- CORE CUTS, AND I KNOW SHE'S BEEN IN CONTACT WITH EPC TO RECOMMEND CUTS, AND I BELIEVE WE NEED TO -- YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T AVOID IT, FOLKS. WE JUST CAN'T AVOID IT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. LISTENING TO ALL OF THE TESTIMONY THAT WE'VE HAD HERE TODAY, LISTENING TO MR. OWENS FROM SWFWMD, MEETINGS WITH DR. GARRITY, SWFWMD STAFF, OUR EPC STAFF, AND -- YOU BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT JUST A MOMENT AGO, COMMISSIONER NORMAN, ABOUT THE LOOMING BUDGET CUTS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRIKES ME REAL HARD WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, I LOOK AT JUST THE WETLAND MANAGEMENT DIVISION'S BUDGET OF -- THAT WE HAVE HERE, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT $2.2 MILLION, AND I PERSONALLY DON'T KNOW IF 2.2 MILLION IN SOME OF THE JOBS AND THINGS AND THE CUTS WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE COUNTY TODAY DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WORTH THE DUPLICATION OF SERVICES. I'M HAVING A HARD TIME JUSTIFYING THAT AND QUANTIFYING THAT IN MY MIND, AND WE'VE HEARD FROM SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THIS MEETING, FROM OUR STAFF, DAN BLOOD, OUR SENIOR ENGINEER OUR EPC STAFF, AS WELL AS THE BUILDING COMMUNITY AND EVERYONE INVOLVED THAT THIS HAS JUST BEEN AN ARDUOUS PROCESS, AND I, QUITE FRANKLY, DON'T SEE AN END TO IT. I MEAN, IT'S JUST A NEVER-ENDING VICIOUS CYCLE, OR SO IT SEEMS, A DOG WAGGING THE TAIL. WE HAVE COMMISSIONERS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, AND, YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE THAT LONG, BUT THEY STILL NEED MEETINGS AND UNDERSTANDING, AND FROM WHAT I'VE GRASPED IN THE SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THAT I'VE BEEN HERE, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WILL GO ANYWHERE, BUT MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE A MOTION THAT THE ADMINISTRATION MOVE TO ELIMINATE THE DUTIES OF THE EPC REGARDING THE WETLAND DIVISION AS WELL AS AMENDING THE COUNTY'S LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND COMP PLAN TO MIRROR THAT OF SWFWMD. >>BRIAN BLAIR: I HAVE A MOTION. COMMISSIONER -- COMMISSIONER HAGAN. EXCUSE ME. >>KEN HAGAN: WHILE I TEND TO AGREE ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT COMMISSIONER NORMAN AND COMMISSIONER WHITE HAD TO SAY, FOR ME OVER THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS, HEAD START, LIAISON POSITIONS, NONPROFITS, EPC, PLANNING COMMISSION, LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIRE RESCUE, ANIMAL SERVICES, AND PARKS DEPARTMENT, I'VE HEARD FROM CONSTITUENTS ON EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE AREAS THAT WE CANNOT AFFORD TO MAKE CUTS OR CHANGES IN ANY OF THESE DEPARTMENTS. WELL, THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE CANNOT AFFORD NOT TO MAKE CHANGES IN ALL OF THESE DEPARTMENTS AND THROUGHOUT COUNTY GOVERNMENT. CONSISTENTLY I'VE SAID AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY GOING BACK TO OUR RETREAT, IF THIS BOARD WILL RECALL -- I'VE SAID THE PROPERTY TAX CHANGES WERE GOING TO HAVE AN ENORMOUS EFFECT ON US AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO MAKE THE TOUGH DECISIONS. NOW, FOR SOME IT APPEARS WE'RE STILL NOT READY TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. FOR THE LONGEST TIME, THIS BOARD, SITTING AS THE COUNTY COMMISSION, ELECTED OR -- TO TAKE THE POSITION -- WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE LEGISLATURE. WE DON'T WANT TO FRIGHTEN ANYONE. WELL, AS COMMISSIONER NORMAN SAID, WE CAN'T AVOID IT ANYMORE. WE KNOW WHAT'S PASSED, AND LIKE IT OR NOT, THE TIME HAS COME TO START MAKING TOUGH DECISIONS ON WHAT CHANGES WE HAVE TO MAKE. THE DAYS OF DOING BUSINESS AS USUAL IS OVER FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE. WE HAVE A BUDGET WORKSHOP THIS AFTERNOON. THE EARLY PROJECTION FROM ERIC JOHNSON ARE IN THE 80- AND 90-MILLION REDUCTION THIS YEAR, AND IF THE BALLOT PROPOSAL PASSES IN JANUARY, THE NUMBER WILL LIKELY BE IN EXCESS OF THE WORST-CASE SCENARIO THAT PAT, THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, GAVE TO US OF $217 MILLION. I'VE SAID IT BEFORE. I KNOW COMMISSIONER BLAIR SAID IT. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME IF IT'S EPC, PLANNING COMMISSION, LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIRE RESCUE, PARKS, YOU NAME THE DEPARTMENT, CHANGES MUST BE MADE ON HOW WE DO BUSINESS, AND THESE CHANGES ARE GOING TO PERMEATE ALL OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT. WE CAN'T AFFORD IT ANY LONGER. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. COMMISSIONER SHARPE. WRAP IT UP, GUYS. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. YEAH. WE'LL WRAP IT UP. I THINK IT WOULD BE AN ABSOLUTE MISTAKE AT THIS TIME, BEFORE WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO ALLOW FOR COMMISSIONER -- FOR DR. GARRITY TO COMPLETE THE -- WHAT WE DELEGATED HIM TO DO, THE TASK OF LOOKING AT THE DUPLICATION, FINDING A WAY TO STREAMLINE IT -- WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT, AND IN PARTICULAR WHEN THIS AGENCY, THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMISSION, WAS GIVEN A MANDATE BY OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR TO MAKE REDUCTIONS AND THEY DID, AND THAT DOES NOT CALL FOR, WITH THOSE REDUCTIONS, THE ELIMINATION OF THE WETLANDS DIVISION, SO IF WE'RE LOOKING TO FIND A WAY TO COMPLY WITH WHAT THE STATE'S DONE TO US, WHICH WE SHOULD -- IF WE'RE LOOKING TO FIND WAYS TO MAKE SAVINGS IN GOVERNMENT, WHICH WE ARE, WE CAN DO THOSE THINGS AND STILL MAINTAIN OUR PROTECTION OF THE WETLANDS, AND THE REASON THAT I'M -- LOOK, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $2 MILLION. WHAT'S THE COST WHEN WE DON'T TAKE THE EXTRA STEP AND WE HAVE FLOODING ISSUES AND WE HAVE TO GO BACK LATER AND REPAIR THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE BECAUSE WE SHORTCHANGED A DIVISION WHICH IS, IN MY MIND, DOING A SIGNIFICANT JOB IN PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT, PROTECTING OUR VERY IMPORTANT WETLANDS, PROTECTING OUR WATER QUALITY, AND AS WELL PROTECTING OUR HOMES FROM FLOODING, SO EVEN IF YOU SUPPORT WHAT COMMISSIONER WHITE ULTIMATELY WANTS TO DO, WHICH IS TO ELIMINATE THE WETLANDS DIVISION, I WOULD AT LEAST ASK THAT WE HOLD OFF UNTIL WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO ALLOW DR. GARRITY TO COMPLETE HIS REPORT -- HIS STUDY AND HIS REPORT, IN PARTICULAR WHEN THEY'VE ALREADY BROUGHT FORWARD THEIR REDUCTIONS, AND IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE ELIMINATION OF THE WETLANDS DIVISION. SO IF WE'RE SAYING WE WANT TO ELIMINATE THE WETLANDS DIVISION FOR BUDGET REASONS -- HE'S SUBMITTED HIS BUDGET, AND WE DON'T NEED TO DO IT, SO THERE MUST BE ANOTHER REASON, AND IT'S NOT -- [APPLAUSE] >>MARK SHARPE: -- FOR COST SAVINGS, SO I WILL JUST SAY WE AT LEAST OWE, YOU KNOW -- FOR THE BOARD THAT WAS HERE IN '85 WHEN THEY CREATED THE WETLANDS DIVISION, FOR THE REASON THAT IT WAS -- THAT IT WAS CREATED, I WOULD ASK THAT WE BE VERY CAUTIOUS AND MOVE SLOWLY BEFORE WE DO SOMETHING WHICH COULD CAUSE, I BELIEVE, GRAVE DAMAGE TO OUR ENVIRONMENT. I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THIS. >>BRIAN BLAIR: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU. GENTLEMEN, WE ALL FEEL PRETTY STRONG ABOUT ONE ISSUE VERSUS ANOTHER ISSUE, AND I THINK WE -- WE AGREE TO DISAGREE MANY TIMES AND WALK OFF THE DAIS AND LEAVE IT HERE. I DON'T THINK IN THE SIX MONTHS THAT I'VE BEEN HERE I FEEL AS STRONGLY AS COMPELLED -- AS COMPELLED TO ALMOST BEG YOU TO CONSIDER THIS. I KNOW RESPONSIBILITY IS THAT YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE THE HARD CALLS, AND THAT'S WHY THESE PEOPLE ELECTED US, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE CUTS. I KNOW THAT VERY WELL. WE CAN'T AVOID IT, WE CAN'T KEEP OUR HEAD IN THE SAND, AND WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN JANUARY, BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE A PLAN HERE. WE HAD A PLAN TO TAKE INPUT FROM PEOPLE FOR AND AGAINST, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH SIDE. WE HAD A PLAN TO ASK DR. GARRITY TO COME UP WITH SOME BUSINESS RECOMMENDATIONS THAT MIGHT BE SMART, THAT COULD -- COULD BE THE DETERMINING FACTOR. WE HAVE TO CUT, BUT IF WE CUT IN THE WRONG WAY AND IF WE CUT TOO SOON AND IF WE THINK THAT ELIMINATING EPC'S WETLAND DIVISION IS GOING TO GAIN EFFICIENCY, I'M NOT SURE BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN THE WORK HE'S GOING TO COME BACK WITH, SO I ASK YOU, PLEASE, THINK CAUTIOUSLY. IF THIS IS YOUR POSITION NOW, THEN THAT'S FINE, BUT WHY NOT WAIT TILL WE GET THE RESULTS FIRST, AND IF YOU STILL CLING TO THAT, THEN -- THEN I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I JUST THINK, MR. WHITE -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU. >>ROSE FERLITA: -- YOUR -- YOUR MOTION IS JUST A LITTLE BIT PREMATURE. WE ARE, AGAIN, MAKING DECISIONS BEFORE WE SHOULD, AND SO I ASK YOU TO JUST PLEASE CONSIDER THAT BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR FINAL -- FINAL VOTE. I ASK YOU TO DO THAT. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER FERLITA. COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IT'S HIGGINBOTHAM. H-I-G-G-I-N -- >>BRIAN BLAIR. NO, I'VE GOT WHITE -- I'M SORRY, HAGAN. HAGAN WAS NEXT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I DIDN'T SEE HIS LIGHT ON. I'M SORRY. >>BRIAN BLAIR: IT'S BLINKING. IF IT'S BLINKING, IT GOES FIRST. >>KEN HAGAN: I GUESS I DISAGREE WITH COMMISSIONER SHARPE AND FERLITA. WE DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY TO MOVE SLOWLY. COMMISSIONER SHARPE REFERENCED EPC'S BUDGET REQUEST AND HOW THEY REDUCED THEIR BUDGET REQUESTS. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEIR ENTIRE BUDGET, BUT I DO HAVE A COPY OF THEIR REQUEST FOR THEIR WETLANDS DIVISION, AND IT'S INCREASED. IT WAS 2.08 MILLION. THIS YEAR THEIR REQUEST IS FOR 2.144 IN FY 08 AND 2.6 IN FIVE 09, SO I THINK THE FACTS SHOW THEY'RE ASKING FOR MORE MONEY, NOT LESS MONEY. COMMENTS ARE FREQUENTLY MADE ABOUT EPC LOOKS AT LESS THAN ONE-HALF-ACRE WETLANDS, BUT THE FACTS THAT I HAVE HERE IN FRONT OF ME ARE THAT SWFWMD STILL REQUIRES THE FOLLOWING TO BE MET IN ORDER FOR A PERMIT: THE PROJECT MUST MEET ALL APPLICABLE STATE AND FEDERAL WATER QUALITY STANDARDS, A PROJECT WILL NOT CAUSE ADVERSE WATER QUANTITY IMPACTS TO RECEIVING WATERS IN ADJACENT LANDS. COMMISSIONER SHARPE MENTIONED FLOODING. THE PROJECT WILL NOT CAUSE ADVERSE FLOODING TO ON-SITE OR OFF-SITE PROPERTY, THE PROJECT WILL NOT CAUSE ADVERSE IMPACTS TO EXISTING SURFACE WATER STORAGE AND CONVEYANCE CAPABILITIES. THOSE ARE THE FACTS, SO WITH THAT, I'M SECONDING COMMISSIONER WHITE'S MOTION. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. >>ROSE FERLITA: COMMISSIONER BLAIR, I JUST WANT SOME CLARIFICATION BEFORE WE DO THIS. I THOUGHT PERHAPS -- I DON'T KNOW WHO, BUT ONE OF YOU GENTLEMEN ADDRESSED THE ISSUE OF THE ACCURACY OF THAT INCREASE IN THE BUDGET REQUEST. WOULD YOU DO THAT. >>RICK GARRITY: YEAH. COMMISSIONER -- AND TOM, MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME, BUT JUST A COUPLE OF ECONOMIC ISSUES. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY INCREASE REQUESTED FOR THE WETLANDS DIVISION OTHER THAN WHATEVER THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR SAID TO PUT IN THE BUDGET AS FAR AS STAFF INCREASES, RAISES FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY STAFF, IS THAT RIGHT, TOM? >>TOM KOULIANOS: OUR BUDGET INCLUDED THE DIRECTIONS THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE BUDGET OFFICE FOR BUILT-IN INCREASES THAT WERE AWARDED BY THE BOARD AND INSTRUCTED TO INCLUDE, WHICH WERE MERIT INCREASES, MARKET EQUITY, ANY CHANGES TO THE RETIREMENT CONTRIBUTION, AND OTHER INSURANCES. I JUST -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION -- AND IT'S STRICTLY YOUR DECISION, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE IT BASED ON A FINANCIAL ANALYSIS AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO PERCEIVE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE $2 MILLION OR TWO- MILLION-PLUS BY ELIMINATING THE WETLANDS DIVISION, THE WETLANDS DIVISION BRINGS IN APPROXIMATELY 1.1, 1.2 MILLION IN REVENUE, SO YOU'LL ELIMINATE THE EXPENDITURE, BUT YOU'LL ALSO LOSE THE REVENUE, SO THE NET IMPACT IS ABOUT 7- OR 800,000, NOT TWO MILLION. THANK YOU. >>ROSE FERLITA: I WANTED -- >>BRIAN BLAIR: I'M GOING TO WIND -- >>ROSE FERLITA: I JUST WANTED TO GIVE HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO FINISH ANSWERING MY QUESTION. I DON'T THINK HE COMPLETELY -- GO AHEAD. >>RICK GARRITY: COMMISSIONER, TOM IS RIGHT IN THAT $1.2- MILLION FIGURE. I DIDN'T ANTICIPATE YOU MAYBE MAKING THIS DECISION TODAY, BUT WE -- I DID HAVE AN UPDATE FOR YOU ON THE FEASIBILITY STUDY, WHICH I THINK ADDRESSES SOME ISSUES OF DUPLICATION, WHICH I KNOW IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THIS BOARD, AND I THINK IT'S VERY PERTINENT TO YOUR DECISION. THIS IS A PRETTY BIG DECISION, AND I THINK WHAT SOME OF THE THOUGHTS THAT WE HAD ON ADDRESSING THE DUPLICATION ISSUE THAT YOU SHOULD HEAR BEFORE YOU MAKE THAT DECISION. IT WOULD JUST TAKE ME A FEW MINUTES HERE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: WELL -- OKAY. IT'S 12:12. HOW LONG IS THAT GOING TO TAKE YOU, DOC? I'VE GOT COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, I WANT TO MAKE A COUPLE COMMENTS, AND -- >>RICK GARRITY: GIVE ME THREE MINUTES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: IT'S GETTING LATE. OKAY. THREE MINUTES. GO AHEAD. THAT'S IT. WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION RIGHT NOW. >>RICK GARRITY: YOU-ALL HAVE A HANDOUT AT YOUR PLACE OF A SLIDE SHOW THAT I WAS GOING TO DO TODAY. IF YOU COULD GO STRAIGHT TO SLIDE 8 AND 9, AND THAT SLIDE IS ENTITLED "UPDATE FROM DRP DELEGATION FROM SWFWMD." I'LL SKIP ALL THE OTHER SLIDES. LET ME JUST SAY THAT WE HAVE HAD VERY POSITIVE DISCUSSIONS WITH DEP, AND I THINK THEY'RE WILLING TO DEFINITELY GO THE DELEGATION ROUTE. AS FAR AS SWFWMD IS CONCERNED, WE HAVE A GOOD APPROACH WITH THEM FOR EXPLORING WAYS TO COOPERATE AND STREAMLINE THE PROCESS, BUT THE REAL THING I WANT TO TELL YOU IS THE CONCEPTS FOR LONG-TERM AS FAR AS LOOKING AT ONE-STOP PERMITTING, AS FAR AS THE CONCEPT OF STAFF SHARING AND PERHAPS COLLOCATING STAFF OF THE DIFFERENT OFFICES, AND VARIOUS DELEGATION OPTIONS THAT YOU SEE IN THAT LAST SLIDE. IF YOU TURN TO THE NEXT SLIDE, I WANT TO PRESENT TO YOU A NEW HYBRID OPTION FOR WETLAND PERMITTING. THIS IS A CONCEPT THAT WOULD BLEND THE ERP PROCESS WITH THE COUNTY DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS. THIS IS A CONCEPT THAT WOULD HAVE CRADLE-TO-GRAVE APPROACH TO DEVELOPMENTS THAT COME IN. IT WOULD INVOLVE NOT ONLY BEGINNING AT THE ZONING REVIEW PROCESS BUT GO THROUGH ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF FINAL PROJECT APPROVAL. IT'S A CONCEPT THAT WOULD TAKE STAFF FROM THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, FROM EPC, AND FROM PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT, HAVING THEM WORK TOGETHER TO HAVE A STREAMLINED APPROACH, HAVE A NEW APPROACH. THIS IS A CONCEPT THAT GOES BEYOND DELEGATION, ACTUALLY, AND IT'S A -- IT'S A PROPOSAL FOR A HYBRID STREAMLINED PERMITTING REVIEW WITH A SINGLE PLACE, PROBABLY PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT FOR THE APPLICATION TO BE SUBMITTED, AND COMMISSIONERS, IF THIS IS SUCCESSFUL, IT WOULD NOT ONLY IMPROVE AND STRENGTHEN THE PROCESS, IT WOULD STREAMLINE IT FOR THE APPLICANTS, BUT I WOULD ANTICIPATE IT WOULD ECONOMIZE THE RESOURCES OF EVERY SINGLE AGENCY INVOLVED, INCLUDING EPC. I WOULD PREDICT THAT IF YOU COULD LET US LOOK AT A CONCEPT LIKE THIS, THAT YOU WOULD END UP BEING ABLE TO REDUCE STAFF, THAT SWFWMD PROBABLY COULD ECONOMIZE ON STAFF, AS COULD PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT BECAUSE YOU'D BE COMBINING THE EFFORTS OF ALL OF THE AGENCIES INTO ONE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW ERP PROCESS. >>BRIAN BLAIR: THANK YOU, DR. GARRITY. WHO'S TWO? >>MARK SHARPE: I'M THREE. I'M THREE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: I'LL MAKE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION, WHICH IS THAT -- AND I -- I THINK WE NEED MORE TIME TO GO THROUGH THIS ENTIRE PROCESS. WE'RE GETTING READY TO MAKE, I THINK, A MOMENTOUS DECISION, WHICH IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT, A DRAMATIC IMPACT ON OUR WETLANDS AND OUR WATER QUALITY. WE'VE HAD OUR -- DR. GARRITY COME FORWARD WITH A PROPOSAL, WHICH I THINK MAKES SENSE, WHICH WILL PROVIDE COST SAVINGS, WHICH WILL ALLOW THE PROCESS TO BE STREAMLINED AND WILL, I THINK, IMPROVE THE PROCESS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ALLOWING NOW SENATOR STORMS AND THEN COMMISSIONER -- EARLIER COMMISSIONER STORMS SAID WOULD ALLOW FOR GREATER PROTECTION BECAUSE SHE SAID THE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH IS TO HAVE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WATCHING OVER THEIR OWN WETLANDS, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THIS. AND SO I'LL MAKE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION THAT WE -- THAT WE ADOPT THE MEASURES THAT -- RECOMMENDED BY DR. GARRITY, THAT WE BRING ER -- CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE ERP PROCESS, PART OF THIS PROCESS, DR. GARRITY? WHAT WOULD YOUR RECOMMENDATION BE WITH REGARD TO ERP? >>RICK GARRITY: AT THE VERY LEAST, IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE A CONCEPT OF ONE-STOP PERMITTING AND A COOPERATION OF PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT, EPC, AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT WITH FURTHER STAFF INTERACTIONS, EVEN COLLOCATION OF STAFF. AT THE VERY BEST, YOU ARE CREATING -- YOU'RE KIND OF DOING AWAY WITH BUSINESS THE WAY WE DO IT NOW. YOU'RE CREATING A NEW ANIMAL THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE IN THE STATE. YOU'RE COMBINING THE ERP REVIEW WITH THE COUNTY DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS. YOU RETAIN LOCAL CONTROL, AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO -- EVERY ONE OF THE AGENCIES INVOLVED IN THIS SHOULD BE ABLE TO ECONOMIZE TO DO -- BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO AWAY WITH THE DUPLICATIVE PARTS OF THE REVIEW. >>MARK SHARPE: THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR US TO VOTE AGAINST WHAT HE'S SUGGESTING. FOR US TO DO OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU KNOW -- THIS IS GOING TO -- THIS IS BAD POLICY IF WE VOTE -- IF WE VOTE FOR THE ORIGINAL AMENDMENT. IT'S GOING TO, I THINK, TAKE US A STEP BACKWARDS. THIS TAKES US A STEP FORWARD FOR THE VERY REASONS THAT HE ENUMERATED, SO I WOULD URGE YOU -- I DON'T HAVE A SECOND YET -- >>ROSE FERLITA: YOU'VE GOT IT. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY, GREAT. I'VE GOT A SECOND. THAT YOU SUPPORT THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION. IT ALLOWS US TO ACHIEVE WHAT YOU-ALL WANT TO ACHIEVE AND EVEN THE COST SAVINGS -- WE'VE ALREADY HEARD THAT WE'RE BRINGING IN $1.4 MILLION, SO THE SAVINGS AREN'T GOING TO BE THAT GREAT, AND I'VE ALREADY SAID THAT THIS -- DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY HAVEN'T ASKED FOR ANY REDUCTIONS IN THEIR BUDGET FOR THE WETLANDS DIVISION, THEY'VE COMPLIED WITH THE REQUESTS FOR REDUCTIONS TO THE EPC, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO DO IT WITHOUT HAVING TO ELIMINATE THE WETLANDS DIVISION, BUT THIS GOES A FAR STEP FURTHER, IT'S A GREAT IDEA, AND I THINK WE WOULD -- IT WOULD BEHOOVE US TO SUPPORT THIS MEASURE. >>BRIAN BLAIR: EXCUSE ME, COMMISSIONER SHARPE. DR. GARRITY -- I THINK, RICK TSCHANTZ, YOU'VE HAD YOUR LIGHT ON, AND WITH THAT, I'D LIKE A TIME FRAME IF THAT IS - - I'M SITTING IN THE MIDDLE RIGHT HERE BECAUSE I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING AS WELL BECAUSE I'M SITTING RIGHT SMACK IN THE MIDDLE, SO PLEASE, AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY, COMMISSIONER SHARPE. [LAUGHTER] GO AHEAD. >>RICHARD TSCHANTZ: I JUST HAVE A SHORT LEGAL STATEMENT. TO -- TO GO FORWARD WITH THE ORIGINAL MOTION -- YOU COULD ONLY MOVE FORWARD IN THAT DIRECTION TODAY BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT WOULD DO, IT WOULD AMEND CHAPTER 1- 11. IT WOULD -- IT WOULD GUT THE PERMITTING PROCESS OUT. IT WOULD ELIMINATE A RULE. TO ELIMINATE A RULE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A NOTICED PUBLIC HEARING TO DO THAT WITH TEN DAYS' NOTICE, SO YOU COULD MOVE FORWARD TO DO THAT TODAY WITH THAT VOTE, BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE OFFICIALLY BY A PUBLISHED NOTICE OF A RULE AMENDMENT. AND THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE AT ANOTHER MEETING. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. AND COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, THAT WAS ONE OF MY CONCERNS, MR. TSCHANTZ, BUT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION, IT WAS ANOTHER QUESTION I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT, BUT WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT IF IT COMES. >>BRIAN BLAIR: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I THINK THERE'S A TECHNICAL -- AN ELECTRICAL ISSUE HERE WITH MY BUTTON. AS THESE TWO KNOW, I KEEP HITTING IT AND IT GOES OFF, AND IT'S DONE THAT SINCE THE FIRST MOTION. I APOLOGIZE TO YOU, KEN, WHEN I WAS STEPPING IN FRONT OF YOU AND SPELLING MY NAME BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN HAPPENING, SO I WAS TRYING TO MAKE LIGHT OF A STRESSFUL SITUATION FOR ALL OF US. IT IS ABOUT THE $2 MILLION. THERE ARE THINGS THAT I HEAR AND SEE ABOUT THE EPC AND THE WETLANDS ISSUE THAT I DON'T CARE FOR, AND -- THAT INVOLVES PROPERTY RIGHTS THAT ARE A GREAT DISTRESS TO ME, BUT I FEEL IF WE SUPPORT THE FIRST MOTION THAT WE'RE OPERATING IN A VACUUM, AND I'M ALL FOR IT, AND WHEN I SAY ABOUT THE TWO MILLION, I'M ALL FOR FINDING $2 MILLION TO CUT. TODAY I WON'T SUPPORT THAT MOTION BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION AS TO WHERE WE WILL HAVE OTHER AREAS AND ITEMS TO ADDRESS IN THE BUDGET. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN DIMINISHING OUR WETLANDS REGULATIONS. I'M VERY SENSITIVE TO HOW THERE'S A -- THERE IS A PERCEPTION OF HOW OUR -- OUR GROUP HERE, THE EPC, IS TREATING FOLKS IN THE FIELD. THAT'S WHERE MY PROBLEM IS, AND THAT WAS WHY I WAS ASKING THE QUESTIONS THAT I ASKED EARLIER, BUT AS FAR AS THE FIRST MOTION, YOU CAN COUNT ME OUT BECAUSE I WON'T -- I WILL NOT SUPPORT IT. I'M NOT SURE ON THE SECOND ONE. I KNOW THAT IT WAS BRIEFLY DISCUSSED IN THE MEETING THAT -- THAT -- AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAD STAFF OR PEOPLE WENT TO THE MEETING WITH DEP AND THE EPC ON TUESDAY, BUT THAT'S THE FIRST I HEARD ABOUT THE HYBRID AND WOULD LIKE MORE INFORMATION BEFORE I SUPPORT THAT MOTION. SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION FOR AN AMEN AND THAT WE NOT MOVE -- OR, DON'T KNOW THAT'S REALLY QUITE THE PROPER MOTION, BUT I'M NOT -- I CAN'T SUPPORT THE CLOSURE OF THE WETLANDS DIVISION, AND I'M CONCERNED BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, MARK, OR THAT I -- MAYBE I WAS JUST FUMING TOO MUCH BECAUSE MY LIGHT KEPT GOING OFF AND I DIDN'T HEAR WHAT YOUR MOTION WAS. ONE I WOULD NOT SUPPORT AND THE OTHER ONE I DON'T KNOW. >>BRIAN BLAIR: OKAY. WELL, FIRST OFF, WE HEARD -- WOULD YOU -- WOULD YOU STATE AGAIN, COUNSEL, WHAT YOU SAID. IF COMMISSIONER WHITE'S MOTION WAS TO TAKE PLACE, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? >>RICH