CAPTIONING AUGUST 11, 2004 PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION ***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the ***following meeting. It should be used for informational ***purposes only. This document has not been edited; ***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words ***that did not translate. >>JOE AFFRONTI: GOOD MORNING. WELCOME TO OUR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 11th, 2004. AS YOU SEE, WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM YET, BUT WE'LL TAKE SOME ITEMS THAT WE DON'T REQUIRE A VOTE ON UNTIL WE DO HAVE A QUORUM, AND WE DO HAVE PEOPLE ON THE WAY, SO ... LET'S PLEASE STAND FOR OUR INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, AND COMMISSIONER WHITE IS GOING TO GIVE THE INVOCATION. >>KEVIN WHITE: DEAR LORD, WE THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY. WE THANK YOU FOR ALL THE BLESSINGS YOU BESTOW UPON US. WE ASK THAT YOU BLESS THIS COMMISSION AS A WHOLE. BLESS OUR COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. PLEASE KEEP US IN THE HOLLOW OF YOUR HAND AND GUIDE US IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOU WOULD HAVE US TO GO IN, TO DELIBERATE THE COUNTY AND THE CITY'S ISSUES IN PEACE AND IN HARMONY. AND FOR ALL THESE BLESSINGS WE ASK. THANK YOU. AMEN. [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE] >>JOE AFFRONTI: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER WHITE. I -- I HAVE A NOTE HERE THAT COMMISSIONER SCOTT WILL NOT BE HERE TODAY. HE'S OUT OF TOWN. AND ALSO ROSE FERLITA HAS A CONFLICT, AND SHE'S GOING TO BE UNABLE TO ATTEND. AND I WAS JUST INFORMED THAT MR. HAGAN WILL ALSO NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEND. SO -- SO WE'LL GET STARTED WITH THE -- ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION? MR. MONGELLO. >> MY NAME'S GUY MONGELLO. [INAUDIBLE] -- WEST FLORIDA LIVERY ASSOCIATION. I RECENTLY SENT THE COMMISSION A LETTER -- [INAUDIBLE] -- ONE OF OUR CONCERNS ABOUT -- IN THE LIMOUSINE -- THE LIMOUSINE DIVISION -- IN THE LIMOUSINE DIVISION, A CONCERN OF OUR ASSOCIATION HAS BEEN FOR QUITE A WHILE THE LEASING OF -- THE SUBLEASING OF PERMITS, AND WE CAN APPRECIATE WHAT THE -- MR. COX'S OFFICE HAS DONE IN THE PAST AND PEOPLE BEFORE HIM TRYING TO HELP SOME OF THE SMALLER GUYS THAT MAYBE CAN'T AFFORD TO GO ALL OUT WITH THE PERMITTING, AND THEY RUN UNDER -- THEY LEASE -- THEY'RE LEASING PERMITS FROM AN EXISTING CERTIFICATE HOLDER. WE THINK AT THIS POINT, AS MOST CONTROVERSIAL ITEMS, IT'S STARTING TO GET OUT OF HAND. THE WAY THE TAXICAB INDUSTRIES DO IT -- AND THEY CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LEASING THE VEHICLES TO -- THAT ARE PERMITTED AND INSURED UNDER THEIR COMPANIES TO A DRIVER. THE WAY IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S GOING IN THE LIMOUSINE INDUSTRY IS INDIVIDUALS OR OTHER LICENSED COMPANIES -- NOT LICENSED -- OTHER LIMOUSINE COMPANIES THAT ARE NOT LICENSED BY PTC, THEY'RE GOING TO THESE OTHER EXISTING CERTIFICATE HOLDERS AND LEASING THESE PERMITS FOR A FEE, WHATEVER IT IS, $200 A MONTH OR WHATEVER. THE RULES STATE THAT IF THIS IS DONE, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO OPERATE UNDER THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER. IT'S NOT BEING DONE, AND I KNOW IT'S AN ENFORCEMENT PROBLEM, BUT IT -- IT'S GETTING MORE AND MORE OUT OF HAND BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST THE LITTLE -- THE ONE GUY -- ONE-CAR OPERATOR THAT'S WORKING FOR AN EMBASSY LIMOUSINE AND IS DOING THEIR WORK. THEY'RE ACTUALLY OUT THERE WITH THEIR OWN COMPANIES AND THEN RUNNING, PICKING UP AT THE AIRPORTS. NATURALLY, THEY GOT A STICKER ON THEIR CARS, AND THEY'RE OPERATING IN ALL DIFFERENT WAYS. OUR CONCERN IS, IS THE SAFETY FOR THE PUBLIC, THAT THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE THAT ARE OUT THERE, AND IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT. THERE IS SOME GUYS THAT ARE DOING THIS PROPERLY, BUT THERE'S SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT GETTING THEIR VEHICLES INSURED DIRECTLY UNDER THEIR -- UNDER THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER, AND -- >>JOE AFFRONTI: PLEASE WRAP IT UP. >> -- AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CIRCUMVENTING THE SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE WHERE, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE RULES, WE'RE NOT SO SURE IT CAN BE DONE ANYWAY, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'D LIKE MR. COX TO LOOK AT. >>JOE AFFRONTI: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MR. COX, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS REGARDING THAT? >>GREG COX: WELL, MOST OF WHAT -- WHAT GUY SAYS IS TRUE. IT'S A SYSTEM THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE, AND IT'S A GOOD SYSTEM. IT IS DESIGNED TO ALLOW A COMPANY TO HIRE SOMEBODY OR BRING SOMEBODY UNDER THEIR FOLD AND LET THEM OPERATE THEIR OWN CAR UNDER THEIR CERTIFICATE. IT REALLY -- BUT THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU START GETTING OTHER PEOPLE WHO ABUSE THE SYSTEM, AND THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT HAPPENS TO A GOOD RULE IS THAT PEOPLE ABUSE IT. SO WHAT WE HAVE IS A SITUATION WHERE COMPANY "A," WHO IS A CERTIFICATE HOLDER, ALIGNS ITSELF WITH COMPANY "B," WHO IS NOT A CERTIFICATE HOLDER FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND THEN THEY SORT OF SHARE THE CERTIFICATE AND SHARE THE PERMITS, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT IT. IT MAY BE SOMETHING IN OUR NEXT SET OF RULES -- AND SOON WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO ANOTHER ROUND OF POTENTIAL RULE CHANGES AND UPDATES. WE'LL TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THAT AND MAYBE EXAMINE IT, SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN CHANGE AND TIGHTEN UP AND BRING IT BACK TO YOU. BUT RIGHT NOW, EVERYBODY IN PLACE IS FOLLOWING THE RULES. NO -- NO LAWS ARE BEING BROKEN. BUT IT IS CREATING A SITUATION THAT I THINK WE MAY WANT TO TIGHTEN UP, AND I'LL BRING MORE BACK TO YOU AFTER WE START DEVELOPING THE RULE CHANGES. >>JOE AFFRONTI: NOW, DON'T WE ALSO REQUIRE THAT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE A SUBCONTRACTOR, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM, THAT THEY HAVE TO ADHERE TO ALL OF THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT -- >>GREG COX: YES, SIR, AND -- AND THAT'S PROBABLY AN AREA THAT WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THE MOST IS HOW THE INSURANCE IS BEING -- OR SELECTED. THE NON-CERTIFICATE HOLDER VEHICLE AND DRIVER RIGHT NOW CAN BE INSURED UNDER THEIR OWN INSURANCE POLICY, BUT IN THE NAMED BLOCK OF THE INSURANCE POLICY, THEY DO HAVE A D/B/A AS A CERTIFICATE HOLDER. I'M SURE THAT -- SO THEREFORE THE PUBLIC'S PROTECTED. BUT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND SEE IF THERE ARE ANY HAZARDS IN THAT TO THE PUBLIC ON THE WAY THEY'RE BEING INSURED. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? YES, MA'AM. STATE YOUR NAME, AND YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. THANK YOU. >> JULIE HERRING, JULIE'S LIMOUSINES, FROM CLEARWATER, FLORIDA. WE DID HAVE A MEETING WITH THE LIMOUSINE ASSOCIATION, AND THIS WAS A HOT TOPIC IN OUR MEETING. WE ALL LISTENED TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATE IN THE SUBLEASING OF PERMITS, AND THEY TOLD US THE WAYS THEY GOT AROUND THE RULES TO GET THEIR INSURANCE TO APPEAR TO BE CORRECT. NONE OF US WERE ACTUALLY CONVINCED, REALLY, THAT -- THAT IT IS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT. THEY HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO CIRCUMVENT IT. I'VE SEEN SEVERAL COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT LEASE THEM OUT, IT'LL SAY A NAME ON THE FRONT OF A CAR THAT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE NAME OF THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER. THE BUSINESS CARDS THEY HAND OUT ARE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUSINESS NAME. IT IS AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT ON THE AGENDA. THANK YOU. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANY NAMES OR ANYTHING THAT YOU COULD PASS ON TO MR. COX I THINK WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED SO HE COULD FOLLOW UP. >> NOT A PROBLEM. >>KEVIN WHITE: EXCUSE ME, JULIE. I'M JUST TRYING TO -- I'M GOING TO USE YOUR COMPANY AS AN EXAMPLE. SOMEBODY MAY SUBLEASE FROM JULIE'S LIMOUSINES, BUT THEY'D BE PASSING OUT BUSINESS CARDS AS LINDA'S LIMOUSINES? >> SURE. THEY OWN THE CAR. THEY BUY THE PERMIT. AND IT'S ACTUALLY NOT -- FROM WHAT WE GATHERED, IT'S NOT LESS EXPENSIVE FOR THEM TO DO IT THAT WAY. IT ACTUALLY COSTS THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY'RE PAYING FOR THAT -- FOR THE USE OF THAT CERTIFICATE AND FOR THE USE OF THAT PERMIT ON THE VEHICLE. SO THEY'RE ACTUALLY PAYING MORE FOR IT. THEY'RE JUST NOT HAVING TO COME UP WITH THE UP-FRONT COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE HEARINGS AND ALL OF THAT TO GET THE RIGHT -- TO GET IT DONE THE RIGHT WAY. >>KEVIN WHITE: BUT, NOW, IS THEIR LIABILITY UNDER YOUR UMBRELLA OR DO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN UMBRELLA? >> WELL, THAT'S OUR QUESTION. I BELIEVE THAT THE LIABILITY WOULD STILL BECOME THE CERTIFICATE HOLDERS, REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY TRIED TO INSULATE YOU FROM THAT. THE QUESTION IS, IS IF YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE NOT QUALIFYING WITH BALANCE SHEETS AND FULL DISCLOSURE, WHAT IS THAT COMPANY WORTH? AND IF THERE WAS SOMETHING CATASTROPHIC THAT WERE TO HAPPEN -- >>KEVIN WHITE: ABSOLUTELY. >> -- HOW COVERED IS THAT, AND THEN HOW LIABLE IS THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER, AND THEN HOW LIABLE IS THE COUNTY IF THEY CIRCUMVENTED THE RULES? >>KEVIN WHITE: ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. >> THANK YOU. >>JOE AFFRONTI: I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST WE TRY TO FIND OUT HOW WIDESPREAD THIS IS, HOW MANY CERTIFICATES OUT THERE -- OR HOW MANY PERMITS THAT ARE BEING USED ARE ACTUALLY OUT THERE BEING USED BY THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER VERSUS SUBCONTRACT OR SUBLESSEE. COULD WE FIND THAT OUT? >>GREG COX: WE CAN RESEARCH IT. IT'S NOT THE SIMPLEST THING TO FIND OUT BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, SOME OF THEM HAVE VERY LEGITIMATE OWNER/OPERATORS THAT ARE BURIED CORRECTLY UNDERNEATH A CERTIFICATE AND ARE DOING IT PROPERLY, AND YOU REALLY CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CERTIFICATE HOLDER'S VEHICLE AND THAT OWNER/OPERATOR. THERE ARE A FEW, AND -- AND THOSE WILL BE THE HARD ONES TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY ARE, BUT -- WHO ARE ACTUALLY OPERATING AT ANOTHER NAMED LIMOUSINE COMPANY BUT ARE LEASING THE PERMITS FROM A CERTIFICATE HOLDER, AND THOSE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE TO TRY TO FIND OUT. WE'LL HAVE TO FIND OUT THE NUMBERS. I DON'T THINK IT'S HUGE. I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY IN THE 10s, MAYBE 20s. >>JOE AFFRONTI: BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT. >>GREG COX: BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT, AND WE'LL TRY TO RESEARCH IT. >>JOE AFFRONTI: I THINK ANY HELP WE COULD GET FROM THE INDUSTRY WOULD BE HELPFUL. I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN. ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING ON HERE THAT WE WON'T VOTE ON. >>GREG COX: WE COULD -- >>JOE AFFRONTI: BECAUSE WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THE BUDGET, VICE-CHAIRMAN, ALL THE PUBLIC HEARINGS. AND I REALLY APOLOGIZE TO EVERYBODY HERE THAT WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM, BUT ... >>GREG COX: WE COULD DO THE ATTORNEY'S REPORT, AND WE COULD DO -- WE COULD DO THE OLD BUSINESS, ITEM "A," MS. LORETTA POWELL. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >>GREGG JOHNSON: THANK YOU, MR. AFFRONTI. I DID WANT TO BRING ONE THING TO THE ATTENTION OF THE COMMISSION. AS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW, THERE IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH, I BELIEVE IT'S FIVE COUNTS OF OPERATING A LIMOUSINE WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE, AND THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL HAS FILED A MOTION IN THE CRIMINAL COURT. THE CHARGES WERE BROUGHT BY THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. IT'S A MISDEMEANOR. IT'S IN MISDEMEANOR COURT. THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL HAS CHALLENGED THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE PTC BASICALLY AS A WHOLE, ITS ENTIRE ABILITY TO REGULATE, YOU KNOW, THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE UNDERLYING STATE STATUTES, EVERYTHING. AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED THAT OUR OFFICE PROVIDE ASSISTANCE TO THEM IN -- IN TERMS OF DRAFTING A BRIEF AND ALSO ASSISTING THEM WITH THE ARGUMENT ON THAT PARTICULAR MOTION, WHICH IS SET TO BE HEARD, I BELIEVE, ON SEPTEMBER 13th I THINK IS THE DATE. SO I WANTED TO ADVISE THE COMMISSION THAT, YOU KNOW, AFTER CONSULTATION WITH MR. COX AND BECAUSE THE BECAUSE THE ISSUES SO DIRECTLY RELATE TO THE PTC AND ITS ABILITY TO REGULATE, WE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. SO WE DID FILE A BRIEF. I WAS APPOINTED AS A SPECIAL STATE ATTORNEY TO ASSIST ON THAT MATTER, SO I WILL BE ASSISTING ON THAT, BUT NOTHING ELSE. PURELY ON THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES. WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO INTERFERE ON ANY CRIMINAL MATTER, BUT BECAUSE THOSE ISSUES SO THOROUGHLY RELATE TO THE PTC, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. >>JOE AFFRONTI: GREAT. ANYTHING IN OLD BUSINESS? MR. COX. >>GREG COX: SIR, BEFORE YOU GO TO THAT, LET ME JUST ANNOUNCE THAT ON ITEM -- UNDER PUBLIC HEARINGS, NEW BUSINESS, ITEM "B," IT'S THE REQUEST FOR A NAME CHANGE FOR TROPIX TRANSPORTATION AND MED ACCESS, INC. THAT ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE AGENDA. IT WAS GOING TO BE ANNOUNCED THAT THEY'VE WITHDRAWN THAT APPLICATION, SO THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HEARD, SO REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS TODAY, THAT WILL NOT BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT MEETING, SO THAT ITEM WOULD HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. >>GREG COX: THE ONLY OTHER BUSINESS I CAN SEE WE CAN DO UNTIL WE GET A QUORUM IS OLD BUSINESS, MS. LORETTA POWELL HAS ASKED TO BE PLACED ON THE AGENDA AND WANTED TO SPEAK TO THE COMMISSION TODAY. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MS. POWELL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ... >> [INAUDIBLE] >>GREG COX: YOU NEED TO SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE. >> I WAS ASKED TO BRING IN A LETTER OF INTENT TO HIRE -- >>JOE AFFRONTI: PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> LORETTA POWELL. >>JOE AFFRONTI: THANK YOU. >> I WAS ASKED, AS YOU TOLD ME, TO BRING A LETTER OF INTENT TO HIRE. THAT'S THE FURTHEST I'VE GOTTEN. THAT'S A LETTER FROM HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. >>GREG COX: MS. POWELL SUBMITTED A -- IT'S A -- APPARENTLY ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT SHE HAS APPLIED FOR A POSITION THROUGH CIVIL SERVICE FOR PARATRANSIT MINIBUS OPERATOR TRAINEE. THIS POSITION DOES NOT REQUIRE A PUBLIC VEHICLE DRIVER'S LICENSE FROM THE COMMISSION, SO IT HAS NO EFFECT ON THE LICENSE YOU WOULD BE ISSUED FROM US. SO YOU DON'T NEED OUR PUBLIC VEHICLE DRIVER'S LICENSE FOR THIS PARTICULAR POSITION. IT'S NOT A -- IT'S NOT A PUBLIC VEHICLE FOR HIRE OR -- >> MS. MILLER TOLD ME THAT I DID. I SPOKE WITH HER PERSONALLY. >>GREG COX: I CAN TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT AFTERWARDS, BUT ANY GOVERNMENT VAN SERVICE OR PARATRANSIT SERVICE DOES NOT REQUIRE OUR LICENSING. >> WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT BECAUSE SHE TOLD ME I DID, BUT I'D STILL LIKE TO BE PLACED ON THE AGENDA FOR THE NEXT TIME BECAUSE I'M CONTINUING MY EFFORT TO SEEK EMPLOYMENT IN THIS FIELD. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN VERY STEADFAST IN YOUR EFFORTS, AND, YOU KNOW, WE APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT, AND WE DISCUSSED THIS YESTERDAY, AND WE DON'T HAVE A FULL GROUP HERE, BUT AS ONE OF THE OPTIONS, I THINK THAT WE HAD RECOMMENDED THAT WHEN - - WHEN SHE CAME UP WITH AN EMPLOYER THAT WAS WILLING TO HIRE HER, THAT WE WOULD THEN RECONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY OF HER GETTING A PVDL. THE OTHER THING -- THE OTHER OPTION, THE OTHER CONSIDERATION WE MIGHT MAKE IS THAT ONCE SHE HAS SOMEONE -- BECAUSE SHE CAN'T OPERATE A VEHICLE UNLESS SHE HAS AN EMPLOYER ANYWAY, A CERTIFICATE HOLDER, SO THE OTHER OPTION WE HAVE, IF WE WANTED TO -- WE CAN'T DO THAT NOW BECAUSE WE CAN'T VOTE, BUT -- IS TO APPROVE HER CONTINGENT UPON THE -- HER GETTING A POSITION WITH ANOTHER COMPANY AND THEN LEAVE IT UP TO MR. COX TO DETERMINE THAT IT'S AUTHENTIC, EVERYTHING IS RIGHT, AND THEN GO AHEAD AND ALLOW IT, THE PVDL. THAT'S ANOTHER CONSIDERATION, BUT -- BUT WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ON THAT NOW ANYWAY. >> YES, SIR. I UNDERSTAND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: BUT WE APPRECIATE YOUR TENACITY. I THINK IT'S GREAT. >>GREG COX: MR. CHAIRMAN. >>JOE AFFRONTI: YES. >>GREG COX: WE HAVE -- WE HAVE QUITE A FEW PUBLIC HEARINGS SCHEDULED FOR TODAY THAT I'M SURE THE -- THE BUSINESS FOLKS WOULD LIKE TO GET THESE HEARD IF POSSIBLE. COULD I RECOMMEND THAT WE TAKE A RECESS AND SEE IF -- ALLOW FOR COMMISSIONER FRANK TO GET HERE SO WE CAN FINISH THESE UP? >>JOE AFFRONTI: SHE'S ON HER WAY, AND SHE'S STUCK IN TRAFFIC, SO SHE SHOULD BE HERE, BUT -- BUT I -- >>KEVIN WHITE: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A RECESS. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. MICHAEL? >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. THEN WE'LL DECLARE A RECESS UNTIL MS. FRANK SHOWS UP, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. [RECESS TAKEN] >>JOE AFFRONTI: THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, AND WE'LL RECONVENE OUR MEETING AT THIS TIME. DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? >>KEVIN WHITE: SO MOVED. >>PAT FRANK: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. WE'LL GET INTO OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS. THE FIRST ITEM ON THE PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA IS A-1 TRANSPORTATION & RESERVATIONS, INC. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: A-1 TRANSPORTATION & RESERVATION SERVICES, INC., OF SARASOTA, FLORIDA, HAS APPLIED FOR A CERTIFICATE TO PERFORM LIMOUSINE SERVICE AND FIVE LIMOUSINE VEHICLE PERMITS. A HEARING OFFICER HEARING WAS HELD ON JULY 9th, 2004, AND THE HEARING OFFICER, MR. ANTHONY COMPARETTO, HAS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE BUT HAS ALSO RECOMMENDED TO LIMIT THEIR SERVICE TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TO THE PORTS OF ENTRY, WHICH IS WHAT WE CALL A LIMITED OR RESTRICTED PERMIT. ADDITIONALLY, HE RECOMMENDS ONLY THREE VEHICLE PERMITS VERSUS THE FIVE THAT WERE REQUESTED. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THIS -- THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, COMMISSIONERS. >>PAT FRANK: RECOMMEND THE HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATION. >> SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. MOVED AND SECONDED TO APPROVE. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT CLOSES THAT PUBLIC HEARING. NEXT ITEM -- NEXT PUBLIC HEARING IS TAMPA BAY LIMO, LLC. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: TAMPA BAY LIMO, LLC, OF TAMPA, FLORIDA, HAS APPLIED FOR A CERTIFICATE TO PERFORM LIMOUSINE SERVICE AND THREE LIMOUSINE VEHICLE PERMITS. A HEARING OFFICER HEARING WAS HELD ON JULY 9th, 2004, AND THE HEARING OFFICER, MR. ANTHONY COMPARETTO, HAS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE, AND HE RECOMMENDS ONLY TWO VEHICLE PERMITS VERSUS THE THREE THAT WERE REQUESTED. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON THIS ITEM? IF NOT, COMMISSIONERS. >>KEVIN WHITE: MOVE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. MOVED AND SECONDED TO APPROVE. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT CLOSES THAT PUBLIC HEARING. NEXT ITEM -- NEXT PUBLIC HEARING ITEM IS MR. WILLIAM HARAB OF PORT CHARLOTTE. >>GREG COX: MR. HARAB OF PORT CHARLOTTE, FLORIDA, HAS APPLIED FOR A LIMITED CERTIFICATE TO PERFORM LIMOUSINE SERVICE UNDER THE NAME OF DORIS LIMOUSINE SERVICE AND THREE LIMOUSINE PERMITS. A HEARING OFFICER HEARING WAS HELD ON JULY 16th, 2004, AND THE HEARING OFFICER, MR. SIDNEY KILGORE, HAS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE LIMITED CERTIFICATE AND THREE VEHICLE PERMITS. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THIS WITH THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, COMMISSIONERS, WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: MOTION TO APPROVE THE HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATION. >>PAT FRANK: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT CLOSES THAT PUBLIC HEARING, OPENS UP THE NEXT ONE, WHICH IS BAY AREA TOWN CAR SERVICE, INC. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: BAY AREA TOWN CAR SERVICE, INC., OF ST. PETERSBURG HAS APPLIED FOR A CERTIFICATE TO PERFORM LIMOUSINE SERVICE AND FIVE LIMOUSINE PERMITS. A HEARING OFFICER HEARING WAS HELD ON JULY 15th, 2004, AND THE HEARING OFFICER, MR. PAUL MARINO, HAS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE AND FIVE VEHICLE PERMITS. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO CARES TO ADDRESS THIS WITH THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, COMMISSIONERS, WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: MOTION TO APPROVE HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATION. >>PAT FRANK: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT CLOSES THAT PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS PUBLIC HEARING FOR VIP VALET, INCORPORATED. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: VIP VALET, INC., OF TAMPA HAS APPLIED FOR TWO ADDITIONAL LIMOUSINE PERMITS. THEY CURRENTLY HAVE FIVE PERMITS, AND THEY ARE ALL IN SERVICE. I'VE REVIEWED THE APPLICATION, AND I FOUND IT TO BE IN ORDER, AND I RECOMMEND APPROVAL. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON THIS ITEM? IF NOT, COMMISSIONERS. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. >>PAT FRANK: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. MOVED AND SECONDED FOR STAFF APPROVAL. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT CLOSES THAT PUBLIC HEARING. THE NEXT ITEM ON PUBLIC HEARING IS BRAD'S LIMOUSINE SERVICE, INCORPORATED. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: BRAD'S LIMOUSINE SERVICE, INC., OF PINELLAS PARK, FLORIDA, HAS APPLIED FOR TWO ADDITIONAL LIMOUSINE VEHICLE PERMITS. THEY CURRENTLY HAVE FOUR PERMITS. THEY ARE ALL IN SERVICE. I'VE REVIEWED THE APPLICATION, FOUND IT TO BE IN ORDER, AND I RECOMMEND APPROVAL. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON THIS ITEM? >>KEVIN WHITE: MOVE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. >>JOE AFFRONTI: WE HAVE A MOTION. SECOND? >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: SECOND. >>PAT FRANK: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MOTION AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT CLOSE THAT IS PUBLIC HEARING. LAST ITEM ON THE PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA IS HUMMER, INC. -- HUMMER LIMO, INC. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: HUMMER LIMO, INC., OF TAMPA HAS APPLIED FOR TWO ADDITIONAL LIMOUSINE VEHICLE PERMITS. THEY CURRENTLY HAVE THREE PERMITS. THEY ARE ALL IN SERVICE. I'VE REVIEWED THE APPLICATION, FOUND IT TO BE IN ORDER, AND I RECOMMEND APPROVAL. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT CARES TO ADDRESS THIS WITH THE COMMISSION? IF NOT -- >>PAT FRANK: MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. AND THE LAST ITEM, WHICH IS BOARD MEMBERS/NAME/LOCATION, ALL THAT. THAT WAS WITHDRAWN. >>GREG COX: THAT WAS WITHDRAWN. >>JOE AFFRONTI: SO THAT'S IT. THAT CLOSES OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS. NEXT ITEM WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA IS OUR BUDGET SUBMISSION. MR. COX. >>GREG COX: FOR THE FY '05 BUDGET SUBMISSION, INCLUDED IN YOUR AGENDA IS THE UPDATED BUDGET SUBMISSION FOR FISCAL YEAR '05. IF YOU GO BACK TO YOUR AGENDA PACKAGE, YOU'LL SEE I'VE TAKEN THE FIRST PAGE -- YOU'LL SEE THERE, IT'S BEEN REDUCED DOWN TO JUST A SUMMARY THAT REFLECTS THE ESTIMATED REVENUES, FUND BALANCE, PERSONNEL AND OPERATING AND CAPITAL EXPENDITURES, AND THEN THE ESTIMATED RESERVES FOR CONTINGENCIES. BEHIND THAT IS THE ENTIRE LIST OF SPREADSHEETS FOR ALL THE SUBOBJECTS FOR EACH CATEGORY, AND IT'S ALL FOR YOUR REVIEW. THIS BUDGET WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED TO YOU AND APPROVED ALONG WITH THE FY '04 BUDGET, AND NOW WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF REVISING A FEW OF THOSE NUMBERS, AND -- AND YOU CAN SEE IN THE COLUMN ON THE FAR RIGHT, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THE NEW REVISED RECOMMENDED BUDGET, AND IF YOU WANT TO REVIEW THAT, BUT WE'LL NEED YOUR APPROVAL TO PROCEED ON. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MR. COX, YOU MIGHT CLARIFY THE ONE ITEM WHERE WE HAVE 30- TO $40,000 A YEAR IN THERE FOR THE EXTRA PERSON WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ON STAFF. >>GREG COX: THAT WAS PART OF MY EXPLANATION THAT WHEN THE -- THE PERSONNEL BENEFITS AND ALL THOSE ASSOCIATED COSTS ARE COMPUTED, IT'S SORT OF AN AUTOMATIC PROCESS THAT'S DONE THROUGH THE -- THROUGH THE BUDGETING PROCESS VIA COMPUTER SOFTWARE. WE HAVE -- WE HAVE ONE POSITION THAT'S CURRENTLY UNFILLED, AND THAT GENERATES SOME EXPENDITURES IN THERE, SO I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR EXPENDITURES -- AND RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, PERSONNEL EXPENDITURES WOULD BE 514,000. I TRULY DON'T ESTIMATE -- I DON'T FIGURE IT'S GOING TO BE THAT HIGH. AND I -- I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE -- EVEN THOUGH IF YOU LOOKED AT OUR EXPENDITURES LISTED ON HERE, THEY -- THEY ARE SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN OUR ESTIMATED REVENUES, HISTORICALLY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY, AND HISTORICALLY WE'VE ALWAYS COME IN UNDER -- UNDERSPENT AND OVER REVENUE, SO I'M NOT CONCERNED THAT OUR -- THIS LIST HERE IS SLIGHTLY HIGHER BECAUSE THERE'S REASONS FOR IT, AND WE WILL -- WE WILL MONITOR THAT THROUGHOUT THE BUDGET YEAR TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T EXCEED OUR -- OUR CAPACITY, BUT -- BUT ON TOP OF THAT, WE STILL MAINTAIN A FAIRLY GOOD CONTINGENCY FUND BALANCE, WHICH WOULD HELP US RIDE THROUGH ANY -- ANY EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION SHOULD IT -- SHOULD IT COME UP. >>JOE AFFRONTI: COMMISSIONERS, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES, MS. FRANK. >>PAT FRANK: MR. COX, IS IT JUST AN ACCIDENT THAT THE RESERVE AMOUNT IS THE SAME AS THE EXPENDITURE AMOUNT? >>GREG COX: I'M TRYING TO SEE WHICH LINE YOU'RE LOOKING AT. >>PAT FRANK: 9920 NUMBERED -- ON THE FIRST PAGE. I'M WORKING OFF THE FIRST PAGE. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: THAT'S REVENUES, THOUGH. ISN'T THAT REVENUES RATHER THAN EXPENSES? TOTAL EXPENSES IS ONE ABOVE. >>GREG COX: THAT'S REVENUES MINUS EXPENSES. THAT EQUATES TO THE CONTINGENCY FUND. SO THE TOTAL REVENUES, WHEN YOU ADD OUR FUND BALANCE BEGINNING COMES UP TO $1,321,126. OUR ESTIMATED EXPENDITURE'S, YOU SUBTRACT THAT 816,390, YOU COME UP WITH 504,736, AND THAT RESULTS IN OUR NEXT YEAR -- THE FOLLOWING RESERVE, SO IT IS NOT -- >>PAT FRANK: OH, I SEE. I SEE. YOU SHOULD HAVE, THEN -- IT'S CONFUSING TO SAY REVENUES DASH EXPENDITURES. IT SHOULD BE TOTAL EXPENDITURES AND THEN NET -- NET -- >>JOE AFFRONTI: RIGHT. >>PAT FRANK: -- INCOME. >>GREG COX: THIS IS A REPORT THAT'S GENERATED FROM THE COUNTY FAMIS REPORT. I DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THAT. [LAUGHTER] >>PAT FRANK: WELL, MY APOLOGIES. THAT'S NOT VERY GOOD. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: MR. COX ALSO, IT'S INDICATED THERE THE REVENUES ANTICIPATED WOULD BE, I'D ASSUME THE 618 IS REVENUES COMING FORWARD, SO IS THAT INDICATED THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND MORE MONEY THIS YEAR, OR WILL ACTUALLY THE BALANCE COMING FORWARD NEXT YEAR POSSIBLY BE THE SAME OR GREATER? >>GREG COX: THE -- THE PROJECTED -- THE REVISED PROJECTED FUND BALANCE COMING FORWARD IS 618. THAT WILL PROBABLY CHANGE BECAUSE WE -- WE CAN'T PREDICT VERY ACCURATELY HOW MUCH MONIES FROM THE END OF THIS FISCAL YEAR ARE DEPOSITED BEFORE THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR AND HOW MANY FEES COME IN AFTER THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR. IT FLUCTUATES EACH YEAR. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ALL THEIR FEES PAID BY 30 SEPTEMBER, AND IF THAT WERE TRUE, ALL THE REVENUES WOULD BE DEPOSITED IN THE APPROPRIATE FISCAL YEAR, BUT AS THINGS MAY BE, WE OFTEN GET A LOT OF PAYMENTS MADE BEFORE AND AFTER THAT YEAR, AND THEY GET SHIFTED. SO THIS COULD CHANGE -- THE REVENUE FUND BALANCE BEGINNING COULD FLUCTUATE AS MUCH AS $100,000. IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE TWO WEEKS LATE MAKING THEIR FEE PAYMENTS. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: SO I WOULD ANTICIPATE THE 504,000 IS A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE, THEN, BUT I WOULD ASSUME ALSO THAT 618 WAS THE AMOUNT OF -- OF RESERVES YOU HAD COMING INTO THIS YEAR. THAT'S WHAT -- THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. >>GREG COX: WELL, COMING IN TO FY '04, WE HAVE AN ACCURATE -- 676 WAS AN ACCURATE FUND BALANCE BEGINNING, SO THAT WAS FIXED COMING IN TO THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. THE 618, LIKE YOU SAID, IS ESTIMATED, BUT I BELIEVE IT WILL BE HIGHER THAN THAT WHEN WE FINALLY GET ALL THE FUNDS TALLIED, THE FEES TALLIED. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>PAT FRANK: I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. >>KEVIN WHITE: SECOND. >>JOE AFFRONTI: WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. GOOD JOB, MR. COX. OKAY. LET'S SEE. THE LAST -- IS THAT THE LAST ITEM HERE? VICE-CHAIRMAN SELECTION. AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE -- THERE WILL BE A CHANGE ON THE COMMISSION -- A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE THE 1st OF THE YEAR, SO WITH MR. GLORIOSO HAVING ALREADY RESIGNED AND OFF THE COMMISSION, WE NEED TO APPOINT SOMEBODY TEMPORARY -- UNTIL JANUARY, ANYWAY, FOR THE VICE-CHAIRMAN POSITION. SO DO WE HAVE A -- >>PAT FRANK: WELL, I'M NOT ELIGIBLE. I'M NOT ELIGIBLE SINCE I'LL BE LEAVING AT THE MIDDLE OF NOVEMBER, SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THE TIME THAT I'LL BE LEAVING MY COMMISSION SEAT. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OH, YOU WILL BE LEAVING THE END OF NOVEMBER? >>PAT FRANK: AT THE MIDDLE OF NOVEMBER. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OH, OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE COMMISSION NEXT UPCOMING MONTHS. I CAN'T -- CAN I -- CAN I -- OH, I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE ASK MR. WHITE TO BE THE VICE-CHAIR UNTIL JANUARY, IF MR. WHITE WOULD -- >>PAT FRANK: I WOULD SECOND THAT MOTION, IF YOU WANT ME TO MAKE IT AND YOU -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT AS CHAIR. >>JOE AFFRONTI: CAN I MAKE THAT MOTION? >>GREGG JOHNSON: I THINK YOU CAN MAKE THE MOTION, BUT TECHNICALLY THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO STEP DOWN AND HAND THE GAVEL TO THE VICE, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE, SO ... >>JOE AFFRONTI: MS. FRANK CAN MAKE THE MOTION. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: I'LL SECOND MS. FRANK'S MOTION SO YOU CAN REMAIN CHAIRMAN. >>PAT FRANK: BUT I THINK IT'S UNANIMOUS. >>JOE AFFRONTI: NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: CONGRATULATIONS. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU, MR. WHITE. THE LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA WOULD BE OLD BUSINESS. ANY -- ANYONE -- >>GREG COX: WE'VE ALREADY COMPLETED THAT WITH MS. POWELL. >>GREG COX: MS. LORETTA POWELL. SHE WAS HERE. OH, SHE'S STILL HERE. OKAY. I HAD -- I HAD BROUGHT UP THE POSSIBILITY THAT SHE'S BEEN VERY TENACIOUS, AND I KNOW SHE SEEMS LIKE SHE REALLY WANTS TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE, AND THE ONE THING WE CAN DO, SINCE SHE CANNOT DRIVE UNLESS SHE HAS A CERTIFICATE HOLDER WILLING TO EMPLOY HER, WE CAN CONSIDER THE OPTION OF ALLOWING HER -- OR SAYING THAT SHE COULD HAVE THE PVDL APPROVED WITH THE CONDITION THAT SHE SUBMIT TO MR. COX A -- A LETTER OR VERBAL COMMITMENT FROM A COMPANY THAT IS GOING TO HIRE HER. THAT'S -- MR. WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: MR. CHAIR, I JUST THINK IT'S INCUMBENT THAT WE BRING MS. FRANK UP-TO-DATE. MS. POWELL WAS BEFORE US EARLIER TODAY, AND SHE HANDED A LETTER TO US FROM THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY -- AN ORGANIZATION IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WHICH SHE HAS APPLIED FOR A -- A -- A DRIVER'S POSITION THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE A PVDL FROM THIS BOARD, AND SO HER APPLICATION IS IN PROCESS AT THIS TIME. DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT -- WHERE THAT WILL GO. WISH HER THE VERY BEST OF LUCK WITH THAT ENDEAVOR AS WELL. BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT NEED TO COME BEFORE THIS BOARD. SHE DOES NOT NEED A LICENSE FROM US. BUT SHE IS EXPRESSING HER WISHES TO CONTINUE TO SEEK EMPLOYMENT IN THIS REALM, WHICH I -- YOU KNOW, I WISH HER VERY WELL IN THAT ENDEAVOR AS WELL, BUT I JUST WANTED TO BRING YOU UP TO SPEED -- >>PAT FRANK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>KEVIN WHITE: -- ON WHAT WAS BROUGHT UP BEFORE. >>PAT FRANK: I'D LIKE TO -- WE'VE GONE THROUGH MS. POWELL'S SITUATION OVER SEVERAL MEETINGS. I THINK THIS IS NOW THE THIRD MEETING THAT WE'VE HAD. AND SHE'S BROUGHT HER MINISTER HERE, WHOM SOME OF US KNOW QUITE WELL AND WHOSE JUDGMENT I VALUE. HE WOULD NOT SAY SOMETHING THAT HE DID NOT FIRMLY BELIEVE IN. AND HE'S INDICATED THAT SHE'S TURNED HERSELF AROUND, AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO INSTANCES THAT HAVE BEEN VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW RECENTLY, AND I -- I THINK THAT IT WOULD -- IT WOULD BE A WISE THING FOR US TO SAY -- TO AUTHORIZE OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TO ISSUE HER A LICENSE IF SHE PROCURES EMPLOYMENT THAT'S UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE PTC SO THAT IF WE TOOK A POSITION NOW THAT WOULD GIVE HER THE OPTION -- BECAUSE NOT KNOWING WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE JOB APPLICATION WITH THE COUNTY -- SHE -- IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE THAT SHE GETS HIRED THERE, BUT TO GIVE HER ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY AND HAVE IT CLEAR THAT THE BOARD IS NOT STANDING IN HER WAY OF GETTING A LICENSE. THE PROBLEM IS SHE'S GOT TO BE HIRED FIRST. SO I MAKE THAT MOTION. >>JOE AFFRONTI: ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? YOU WANT TO MAKE THE SECOND FOR DISCUSSION? >>KEVIN WHITE: I JUST -- IF I MAY -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NORMAL PROCEDURE IS, HAVING NOT BEEN HERE THAT LONG. I DON'T THINK THE LETTER PROCUREMENT OF EMPLOYMENT IS -- IS NORMALLY THE PROCESS, IF YOU WILL, AND IF I AM, PLEASE -- PLEASE CORRECT ME. MY POSITION BASICALLY STAYS THE SAME AS -- AS IT HAS BEEN ON THE TWO PRIOR VOTES ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST, MS. POWELL. I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TURNED YOUR LIFE AROUND, AND I WON'T GET BACK INTO MY LONG EXCERPT ON THAT, BUT I WON'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE MOTION. >>GREG COX: IF I COULD JUST CLARIFY ONE THING. >>JOE AFFRONTI: YES. >>GREG COX: THE PROCESS WE'RE CONSIDERING RIGHT NOW IS YOUR DECISION TO OVERTURN THE STAFF'S DENIAL OF THE PVDL, AND THE STAFF DENIED THE PVDL BASED ON HER HISTORY. THAT'S REALLY ALL YOU'RE CONSIDERING RIGHT NOW IS WHETHER OR NOT TO OVERTURN THAT DENIAL BASED ON WHATEVER REASONS YOU WISH. HISTORICALLY, A LOT OF TIMES THE COMMISSION HAS DESIRED TO BRING IN AN EMPLOYER TO KIND OF HELP THEM BE CONVINCED THAT THIS PERSON IS UNDER GOOD CONTROL AND SO FORTH, SO -- THAT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT. YOU'RE SIMPLY LOOKING AT WHATEVER'S BEEN PRESENTED BY HER AND THE EVIDENCE WE'VE GIVEN TO YOU IN DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO OVERTURN THAT DENIAL. IF -- IF YOU DID OVERTURN THE DENIAL TODAY, WHICH YOU COULD, WE WOULD STILL NOT BE ABLE TO ISSUE A PUBLIC VEHICLE DRIVER'S LICENSE TO HER UNTIL SHE BROUGHT AN APPLICATION IN FROM AN EMPLOYER THAT SAYS SHE'S GOING TO WORK. SO YOU COULD OVERTURN THE DENIAL, AND SHE WOULD GET THE PVDL AT THAT POINT ONCE SOMEONE BROUGHT THE APPLICATION IN OR SHE BROUGHT THE APPLICATION IN. >>PAT FRANK: LET ME RESTATE MY MOTION THEN. I RECOMMEND WE OVERTURN THE DENIAL. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION TO OVERTURN THE DENIAL. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: A QUESTION TO COUNSEL. ARE WE SETTING A PRECEDENT IN DOING THIS? THIS IS ONLY MY SECOND MEETING ON THE COUNSEL. IT'S BEEN SOME SIX YEARS SINCE I WAS ON HERE BEFORE, AND I -- I'M VERY HESITANT TO WANT TO SET A PRECEDENT THAT WOULD AFFECT US IN THE FUTURE. >>GREGG JOHNSON: WELL, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, AT LEAST SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, I'M NOT AWARE OF A SITUATION SUCH AS THIS. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WHAT MR. COX DESCRIBED, WHERE A PERSON COMES IN AND HAS EITHER A LETTER OR PERSONAL TESTIMONY FROM THE EMPLOYER THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, SUBJECT TO YOU GIVING -- THE BOARD GIVING A PVDL, I AM GOING TO HIRE THIS PERSON. WHETHER IT SETS A PRECEDENT OR NOT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HARD TO SAY. I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY WITHIN THE PROVINCE OF THE BOARD TO SAY, YOU KNOW -- BASICALLY, ALL YOU'RE INDICATING IS THAT IN THE EVENT SHE IS ABLE TO PROCURE SOMEBODY WHO IS ABLE TO HIRE HER, WE ARE COMMITTING THAT, YES, WE WOULD OVERTURN THE DENIAL. WE HAVE OVERTURNED THE DENIAL, AND SHE WOULD BE ISSUED A PVDL. YOU CANNOT ACTUALLY ISSUE HER THE PVDL TODAY UNTIL SHE'S GOT THE EMPLOYMENT. I'M NOT SURE IT'S A PRECEDENT. IT'S NOT SOMETHING I'VE SEEN SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. >>JOE AFFRONTI: I GUESS WHAT WE'RE REALLY ASKING HERE IS WHETHER OR NOT -- I MEAN, THE BASIC QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO GRANT HER LICENSE EVEN IF SHE HAD AN EMPLOYER, AND WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO STICK WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS -- STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION OR NOT. AND IF WE -- IF WE SAY THAT WE ARE NOT, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SHE HAS AN EMPLOYER OR NOT, THEN THAT'S THE END OF THE ISSUE. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF -- IF WE SAY THAT, AS WE'VE INDICATED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MEETINGS, THAT IF SHE DID HAVE AN EMPLOYER THAT WAS WILLING TO HIRE HER, WE WOULD RECONSIDER HER APPLICATION, SO I THINK THE -- THE MAIN THING WE HAVE TO DECIDE HERE IS WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO STICK WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR DENIAL OR -- OR OVERTURN THAT, AND IF WE DO, THEN WE COULD DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD ACCEPT SOMEONE'S LETTER AGREEING TO EMPLOY HER AND THEN GRANT HER THE PVDL. SO I GUESS THAT'S THE BASIC ISSUE, DO WE WANT TO OVERTURN IT OR NOT. NOW, MS. FRANK MADE A MOTION THAT WE OVERTURN THE RECOMMENDATION BY STAFF, THAT WE DO, SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: MR. CHAIRMAN, IN DISCUSSION OF IT, I THINK I HAVE TO CONCUR WITH MR. WHITE'S ANALYSIS OF IT, AND I WOULD NOT BE SUPPORTIVE OF THIS ACTION. IT WOULD APPEAR TO ME THAT IF THE -- THE PETITIONER HAD SPENT AS MUCH TIME TRYING TO FIND A JOB AS SHE IS COMING UP HERE, THAT SHOULD BE ADEQUATE, SO I THINK THE PROCESS NEEDS TO STAY IN THE MANNER IN WHICH IT IS, AND SO I COULD NOT SUPPORT THE OVERTURNING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. WELL, THE MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF A SECOND. >>PAT FRANK: YEAH. MR. CHAIRMAN. >>JOE AFFRONTI: YES. >>PAT FRANK: I REGRET THAT. YOU KNOW, I'VE SAT HERE A LONG TIME. I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD EVER SINCE I GOT ELECTED, I THINK, AND WE HAVE, ON MANY OCCASIONS, IN EFFECT, OVERTURNED THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THE PERSON HAS BROUGHT SOMEBODY UP HERE WHO'S SPOKEN FOR THEM WHO'S BEEN A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER. WE HAVE -- WE HAVE, IN THIS SITUATION, SOMEONE ELSE WHO'S COME UP HERE AND SPOKEN FOR THEM IN TERMS OF THEIR CHARACTER AND CREDIBILITY. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THAT PERSON IS NOT A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER, AND I -- I THINK THAT THAT HANDICAPS ONE BECAUSE WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT THE MERIT OF WHETHER THE CHARGES WARRANT A DENIAL OF A LICENSE, AND WE'VE -- WE'VE GIVEN -- WE'VE REVERSED THE DECISIONS OF STAFF IN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN USING DRUGS WHILE THEY'VE BEEN DRIVING, PEOPLE WHO'VE -- WHO'VE COMMITTED ASSAULTS WHILE THEY'VE BEEN DRIVING, AND THEN WE GET AN EMPLOYER WHO SAYS, BUT I'LL -- I'LL MAINTAIN THEM, AND WE PUT THEM ON PROBATION AND LET THEM TAKE A TIME TO -- TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO REVERT TO THE OLD ACTIONS. IN THIS CASE, WE HAVE A WOMAN WHO IS NOT EMPLOYED, BUT WHO OBVIOUSLY HAS TOTALLY REVERSED THE WAY THAT HER PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN. WHY DOES SHE NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO HIRE HER COME UP HERE TO ATTEST TO THAT? WHY IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM SOMEONE ELSE WHO KNOWS HER QUITE WELL IN HER OWN COMMUNITY AND DEALS WITH HER ON AN ONGOING BASIS VERIFYING HER CHARACTER? SO I -- I JUST -- I'M -- I'M DISAPPOINTED. I HOPE YOU-ALL WILL RE -- RETHINK IT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A DUAL STANDARD. >>JOE AFFRONTI: MR. WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: MR. CHAIRMAN. >>JOE AFFRONTI: YES. >>KEVIN WHITE: MS. FRANK, I -- I AGREE WITH -- WITH THE GREAT MAJORITY OF -- OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THE UNFORTUNATE PART IS I DON'T THINK I WAS ON THE -- THE SIDE OF THOSE PARTICULAR VOTES, AND THE OTHER THING I'M LOOKING AT IS -- IS THE CRIMINAL HISTORY HERE, AND THE UNFORTUNATE PART, THAT'S THE -- THE OVERWHELMING DECISIVE FACTOR FOR ME. I'M LOOKING AT AN ARREST FOR AGGRAVATED CHILD ABUSE, CONFINEMENT, TWO FELONIES HERE, AGGRAVATED BATTERY, WHICH IS A FELONY, AGGRAVATED BATTERY WITH A DEADLY WEAPON, AGGRAVATED BATTERY WITH A FIREARM, RESIST ARREST WITH VIOLENCE, AND THREE PAGES, ANOTHER AGGRAVATED BATTERY WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. AND -- AND I -- I WHOLEHEARTEDLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH -- WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND I, ABOVE ALL, BELIEVE IN GIVING PEOPLE SECOND AND EVEN SOMETIMES THIRD CHANCES, AND MS. POWELL IS IN A PRECARIOUS SITUATION. I KNOW SHE CAN BE EMPLOYED IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES, BUT AS I SAID BEFORE, WE'RE PUTTING THE UNSUSPECTING PUBLIC IN YOUR CARE IF WE -- IF WE DID THAT, AND -- AND IT'S NOT THAT YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED. IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S JUST THE PAST, AND THE PAST IS THE PAST, BUT BECAUSE OF THE PAST, DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO DO CERTAIN THINGS IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT'S THE UNFORTUNATE REALITY OF -- OF MY RATIONALIZATION OF -- OF MY VOTE ON THIS, AND -- AND I'M SORRY. I JUST HAVE TO STICK WITH -- >>JOE AFFRONTI: MS. FRANK. >>PAT FRANK: MR. CHAIRMAN, I KNOW IF YOU LOOK AT THIS RECORD, YOU SEE A LOT OF CHARGES, BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DISPOSITION OF THE CHARGES. >>KEVIN WHITE: I UNDERSTAND. >>PAT FRANK: MOST OF THEM WERE DISMISSED OR THERE WAS ADJUDICATION WITHHELD. SHE WAS IN A DOMESTIC SITUATION WHERE THERE WAS A LOT OF CONTROVERSY GOING ON. THE CONVICTION MOST RECENTLY, IF YOU LOOK AT -- YOU KNOW, GET OUT OF THE '80s, WHICH MOST OF US DO WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE THINGS, IF THERE'S A PATTERN OF SHOWING THAT SOMEBODY HAS RE -- RECONSTITUTED THEIR BEHAVIOR, THE -- THE MOST -- THE ONE THING THAT SHE DID WAS A BATTERY CHARGE, AND THAT WAS IN A -- APPARENTLY IN A FAMILIAL RELATIONSHIP OF SOME SORT. IT WAS A BATTERY CHARGE, NOT WITH A WEAPON, NOT WITH ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I -- I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, BALANCE THESE THINGS UP AGAINST SOME OF THE THINGS I'VE SEEN HERE. >>MICHAEL SPARKMAN: MR. CHAIRMAN, I -- I AGREE WITH WHAT MRS. FRANK IS SAYING, BUT I STILL SAY THAT WE DON'T -- I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH BASIS TO OVERTURN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. IF -- IF -- I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM IN -- IN OVERTURNING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IN DUE CAUSE, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS IS JUSTIFIED AT THIS TIME TO -- TO DO THAT. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OKAY. NOW, JUST TO CLARIFY THIS, MS. FRANK MADE A MOTION TO OVERTURN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, WHICH FAILED BECAUSE OF LACK OF A SECOND. NOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THIS ISSUE IS -- IS DONE, THAT -- >>GREG COX: NOT NECESSARILY, SIR, AND I WAS GOING TO ADD, IT'S STILL DENIED, BUT SHOULD SHE FIND AN EMPLOYER AT ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE, SHE CAN COME BACK AND APPEAL ONCE AGAIN FOR US TO OVERTURN THAT IF SHE HAS SOMEBODY -- YOU KNOW, HOWEVER SHE WANTS TO DO THAT, WITH AN EMPLOYER -- THAT'S HER OPTION TO -- TO APPEAL IT AS MANY TIMES AS SHE WANTS, I GUESS. >>JOE AFFRONTI: OR IF SHE IS EMPLOYED BY THE COUNTY ON THIS APPLICATION SHE JUST GOT, THAT ONCE SHE DEVELOPS A TRACK RECORD WITH THEM, YOU COME BACK. >>GREG COX: THERE'S NOTHING THAT PREVENTS SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN DENIED FROM COMING BACK AND APPLYING ONCE AGAIN, SO IF SHE HAS AN EMPLOYER, COMES BACK, WE WILL PROBABLY, BASED ON THE HISTORY, STILL DENY IT, AND COME BEFORE YOU ONCE AGAIN WITH AN EMPLOYER OR -- >>JOE AFFRONTI: SO SHE DO THAT ANY TIME? >>GREG COX: YES, SIR. >>KEVIN WHITE: ALSO, MS. POWELL, THAT WOULD MAKE A STRONGER CASE FOR ME, IF YOU WANT MY SUPPORT ON THIS, WHICH I REALLY DON'T NECESSARILY SEE IT THAT WHOLEHEARTEDLY, BUT IF YOU WANTED MY SUPPORT TO BE STANDING BEFORE THIS -- THIS BOARD HAVING SOMEONE THAT IS SAYING THAT IF WE WILL GRANT YOU A LICENSE, THEY WILL HIRE YOU IMMEDIATELY ON THE SPOT, THAT WOULD WEIGH A LOT MORE CREDIBILITY WITH ME THAN -- THAN JUST HAVING A CHARACTER REFERENCE, IF YOU WILL, AND I -- AND I WASN'T HERE THAT DAY, BUT I KNOW THE CHARACTER REFERENCE YOU BROUGHT IN, AND I DO RESPECT HIS OPINION WHOLEHEARTEDLY, BUT I THINK IT WOULD WEIGH MORE HEAVILY WITH ME TO HAVE AN EMPLOYER STANDING BY YOUR SIDE SAYING, I'M READY TO PUT MS. POWELL TO WORK. >>JOE AFFRONTI: JUST DON'T GIVE UP, MS. POWELL. >> I WON'T. >>JOE AFFRONTI: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. >>JOE AFFRONTI: IS THERE ANYTHING -- ANY OTHER BUSINESS BEFORE THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, WE ADJOURN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 1