CAPTIONING
JUNE 8, 2005
PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION


***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the 
***following meeting.  It should be used for informational 
***purposes only.  This document has not been edited; 
***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words 
***that did not translate.

>>KEVIN WHITE:  GOOD MORNING.
THE JUNE -- GOOD MORNING.
THE JUNE 8th PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION MEETING IS 
NOW CALLED TO ORDER.
IF EVERYONE WOULD PLEASE RISE FOR THE INVOCATION AND REMAIN 
STANDING FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
DEAR LORD, WE'RE GATHERED HERE TODAY TO CONDUCT THE 
BUSINESS OF YOUR COMMUNITY.
WE ASK YOUR BLESSINGS OVER THE PROCEEDINGS OF THIS MEETING, 
THAT IT WILL BE DONE IN A MEANINGFUL AND CONDUCT -- ORDERLY 
FASHION.
WE ASK THAT YOU PROTECT ALL OF OUR TROOPS, BOTH LOCAL AND 
ABROAD, TO KEEP OUR COUNTRY, OUR CITY, AND OUR COMMUNITY 
SAFE.
ALL THESE THINGS WE ASK IN YOUR NAME.
AMEN.
[PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]
JUST FOR OUR AUDIENCE, WE DON'T HAVE A -- OH, WE DO HAVE A 
QUORUM.
GOOD MORNING.
WE WILL GO TO OUR AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON 
ANY ITEM ON THE AGENDA?
THIS IS YOUR TIME TO DO SO.
COME FORWARD AND SPEAK.
SEEING NONE -- OH.
COME FORWARD, PLEASE.
>> GOOD MORNING.
DAVE SHAW, PARADISE LIMOUSINES, 7850 128th STREET, 
SEMINOLE, FLORIDA.
I JUST WANTED TO DISCUSS SOMETHING ON THE WAIVER OF RULE 
REQUEST ON THE HOURLY MINIMUM.  
YEARS AGO WE SAT DOWN WITH THE -- WITH THE -- THE 
COMMISSION AND THE LIMOUSINE INDUSTRY.
WE HAD A WORKSHOP, AND WE CAME UP WITH A HIGHER-PRICE 
MINIMUM FOR THE INDUSTRY, AND MOST PEOPLE WERE ACCEPTED 
ABOUT THAT.
I THINK IT'S -- IT'S GOOD THAT WE DO HAVE A -- A REGULATED 
MINIMUM.
IT KEEPS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE -- THE CLASS -- 
CLASSIFICATIONS OF THE VEHICLES, THE TAXICABS, THE LUXURY 
TAXICABS AND THE LIMOUSINES.
SO I WOULD BE AGAINST WAIVING ANY KIND OF -- OF RULE TO -- 
TO MAKE THIS GO AWAY.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU.
NEXT, PLEASE.
>> DARRYL MINARDI, YELLOW CAB COMPANY OF TAMPA.
ALSO WE PARTICIPATED IN THE MEETINGS WITH THE DIRECTOR AND 
HIS STAFF IN REGARD TO THE MINIMUM FOR THIS WAIVER, AND WE 
AGREE WITH THE LIMOUSINE ASSOCIATION, THAT THAT MINIMUM 
SHOULD STAY IN EFFECT, BECAUSE IT DOES KEEP SEPARATION 
BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES, AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.
THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU.
NEXT, PLEASE.
>> GEORGE VALLEE, TAMPA, FLORIDA.
FIRST OF ALL, THESE ARE PROTECTIONS OF RULES AND 
REGULATIONS DESIGNED TO PROTECT TAXICABS.
NEXT, MOST OF THESE LIMOUSINE COMPANIES DO NOT OPERATE IN 
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
A MAJORITY OF THESE LIMOUSINES OPERATE IN COUNTIES OTHER 
THAN HILLSBOROUGH.
IN THEIR OWN RESPECTIVE COUNTIES, THEY DON'T ABIDE BY THESE 
MINIMUMS, OKAY.
THEY RUN PEOPLE FOR LESS THAN $40 IN THEIR OWN RESPECTIVE 
COUNTIES.
WHAT THESE RULES DO IS TAKE A WHOLE CLASS OF OUR INDUSTRY 
AND KEEP US FROM OPERATING WITHIN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LIMOUSINE, A TAXICAB, AND A 
BLACK CAR SERVICE, AND I THINK THIS BODY NEEDS TO FIGURE 
OUT WHAT THAT IS.
WE HAVE DIFFERENT INSURANCE REGULATIONS.
WE HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF DOING BUSINESS.
WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS WE HAVE TAKEN A WHOLE SECTION OF 
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND SAID, WE CANNOT -- WE'RE NOT GOING 
TO ALLOW YOU TO HAVE AFFORDABLE LUXURY TRANSPORTATION.
WE'RE GOING TO PRICE YOU OUT OF THE MARKETPLACE.
AND THAT'S WHAT THESE RULES HAVE DONE.
THEY HAVE EFFECTIVELY PRICED US OUT OF THE CITY OF TAMPA.
THEY'VE TAKEN THE WHOLE CITY OF TAMPA AND TAKEN IT RIGHT 
OUT OF MY BUSINESS BECAUSE I CAN'T CHARGE $25 OR $30 FROM 
DOWNTOWN TO THE AIRPORT BECAUSE I HAVE TO CHARGE OVER 40 TO 
GO FROM WESTSHORE BOULEVARD TO THE AIRPORT, SO WHAT THESE 
RULES HAVE DONE IS JUST ELIMINATED ME FROM EVEN HAVING ANY 
BUSINESS WITHIN -- WITHIN THE CITY OF TAMPA, AND I THINK 
THEY'RE WRONG.
THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU, MR. VALLEE.
NEXT, PLEASE.
>> GOOD MORNING.
JAKE PIASCIK, PRESIDENT AND OWNER OF DREAM LIMOUSINE IN 
HILLSBOROUGH LIMOUSINE IN VALRICO.
AS THE GENTLEMAN STATED, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TAXI 
CAB AND LIMOUSINE SERVICE.  
OKAY.
THAT MINIMUM NEEDS TO STAY THERE.
I DO OPERATE OUT.
WE OPERATE A DIFFERENT SYSTEM, A DIFFERENT SERVICE.
WHEN YOU'RE SITTING HERE LOOKING AT A BLACK CAR SERVICE 
VERSUS A LIMOUSINE VERSUS A CAB, THERE IS A DIFFERENT 
SERVICE THAT'S BEING PROVIDED.
THAT MINIMUM OF $40 NEEDS TO STAY IN PLACE.  
THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU.
ANYONE ELSE CARE TO SPEAK AT THIS TIME?
COME FORWARD.
>> THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THEY WERE TALKING 
ABOUT.
IS THAT OKAY, OR SHOULD I WAIT?
>>KEVIN WHITE:  AS LONG AS IT'S ON THE AGENDA.
GO AHEAD.
>> WELL, I OWN OLDSMAR TAXI.
I'M TOM SMITH, AND I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT A PROBLEM THAT I 
HAVE WITH THE COUNTY LINE AND THAT.
CAN I DO THAT NOW, OR SHOULD I WAIT?
>>KEVIN WHITE:  GO AHEAD.
YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.
>> OKAY.
ANYWAY, I TALKED TO THE COMMISSION BACK IN NOVEMBER, AND 
MYSELF AND MR. COX TALKED A LITTLE ABOUT, LIKE, DISTRICT OR 
ZONED CABS.
WHAT MY PROBLEM IS, I'VE GOT TEN PERMITS IN OLDSMAR, AND 
ONLY THREE OF MY CABS CAN CROSS THE COUNTY LINE, AND I'VE 
GOT -- MY BIGGEST BUSINESS BEING TAMPA BAY DOWNS IS HALF IN 
HILLSBOROUGH AND HALF IN PINELLAS, AND A LOT OF OTHER 
BUSINESSES THAT CALL THEMSELVES OLDSMAR ARE ON THE 
HILLSBOROUGH SIDE, AND I WENT THROUGH THE LOTTERY, AND I 
WON ONE PERMIT.
I HAVE TWO PERMITS I LEASE FROM GULF COAST TRANSPORTATION, 
BUT I STILL HAVE SEVEN THAT CAN'T CROSS THE LINE.
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
I COULD HAVE SOMEBODY SITTING ON RACE TRACK ROAD, AND HE 
CAN'T PICK UP THE PUBLIX ON RACE TRACK ROAD BECAUSE HE 
DOESN'T HAVE A HILLSBOROUGH PERMIT, AND THEN PEOPLE HAVE TO 
WAIT 30 MINUTES FOR A CAR THAT DOES HAVE A HILLSBOROUGH 
PERMIT.
YOU KNOW, THESE ARE LIKE SOME PROBLEMS I HAVE IN GIVING 
GOOD SERVICE.
THE IDEA OF OLDSMAR IS TO GIVE GOOD SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE 
IN THE OUTLYING AREAS OF NORTH PINELLAS, NORTH AND WEST 
HILLSBOROUGH, AND WEST PASCO, BUT I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH 
PERMITS IN HILLSBOROUGH TO CROSS MY CABS OVER THAT LINE.
I DON'T KNOW.
ZONE CABS, I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM, AND I JUST WANT THE 
COMMISSION TO KNOW THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS IN 
GIVING GOOD SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE IN NORTHWEST HILLSBOROUGH 
BECAUSE I CAN ONLY CROSS CERTAIN CABS AND CERTAIN CABS I 
CAN'T.
I WAS APPROVED FOR FOUR PERMITS LAST YEAR.
I WON ONE.
IF I GOT FOUR, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO START A COMPANY WITH ONE PERMIT.
WHATEVER COULD BE DONE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO SAY THAT I HAVE A 
GREATER NEED, YOU KNOW?
RATHER THAN ROLLING THE DICE THIS YEAR AND HOPING, YOU 
KNOW, FOR A FEW PERMITS, MAYBE I COULD GET THE THREE I 
DIDN'T GET LAST YEAR UP FRONT BEFORE THE -- THE ROLL OF THE 
DICE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF A GREATER NEED.
I'M NOT JUST TRYING TO EXPAND MY BUSINESS.
I'M TRYING TO PROVIDE A SERVICE TO A CERTAIN GIVEN AREA 
THAT DOESN'T REALLY GET GOOD SERVICE.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  MR. COX, DO YOU -- EVIDENTLY YOU'VE BEEN 
HAVING SOME DIALOGUE WITH MR. SMITH HERE ON THIS.
>>GREG COX:  WELL, THE SITUATION HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS -- 
IS OBVIOUSLY BASED ON THE CAP ON THE NUMBER OF TAXICAB 
PERMITS.
THERE ARE 14 DIFFERENT CERTIFICATE HOLDERS RIGHT NOW, ALL 
OF WHICH PROBABLY WOULD WANT MORE PERMITS.
THEY COULD ALL PROBABLY COME UP HERE AND MAKE AN ARGUMENT 
OF WHY THEY NEED IT MORE THAN THE OTHER.
THIS IS WHY THE COMMISSION DECIDED TO GO WITH THE EVEN, 
LEVEL-PLAYING-FIELD LOTTERY SYSTEM LAST YEAR FOR THE 15 
PERMITS THAT BECAME AVAILABLE, AND THAT'S WHAT WILL HAPPEN 
THIS FALL.
WE'LL PROBABLY GET ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER -- IF -- IF 
HISTORY HOLDS TRUE, 14, 15, 16 PERMITS PROBABLY WILL COME 
AVAILABLE, AND WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER SYSTEM, AND HE'LL HAVE A 
CHANCE OF -- OF PUTTING HIS APPLICATION IN FOR THOSE.
OTHER THAN JUST REMOVING OR CHANGING THE CAP, THERE'S NO 
OTHER WAY THAT I'M AWARE OF TO -- TO GRANT SOMEBODY 
ADDITIONAL PERMITS BECAUSE THEY -- BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM.
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND ON THAT RIGHT NOW, SO I WOULD 
SAY IN ANOTHER FEW MONTHS, WE'LL -- WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING 
AROUND SEPTEMBER OF GETTING THE INFORMATION OF HOW MANY 
PERMITS WILL BECOME AVAILABLE, AND THEN WE'LL START SETTING 
UP THE LOTTERY SYSTEM AGAIN.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  OKAY.
GREAT.
WELL, WE'LL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH MR. COX ON THIS.
I FEEL YOUR DILEMMA, AND I -- I SEE WHERE YOU'RE AT, BUT 
UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE CAN 
DO ABOUT IT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BUT WE'LL SEE WHEN THE -
- WHEN THIS NEW LOTTERY SYSTEM COMES AVAILABLE AND -- AND -
-
>> I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES.
I'M JUST SAYING IF THERE'S SOME WAY IF I COULD SHOW A 
GREATER NEED FOR A COUPLE OF THEM, YOU KNOW, OR MAYBE THE 
THREE I DIDN'T GET LAST YEAR, BECAUSE STARTING WITH ONE, 
IT'S LIKE STARTING -- I'M IN LIMBO, YOU KNOW.
I CAN'T REALLY DO A WHOLE LOT.
I CAN'T OFFER A SERVICE TO AN AREA WITH ONE PERMIT AND TWO 
LEASE PERMITS.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  SURE.
>> THE OTHER POSSIBILITY, IS IT POSSIBLE TO ASK THE 
COMMISSION FOR PERMISSION FOR MY CABS, ALL OF THEM, TO PICK 
UP BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET?  
RACE TRACK ROAD BEING THE COUNTY LINE, I CAN PICK UP THE 
LEFT SIDE BUT NOT THE RIGHT SIDE.
THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN ITSELF BECAUSE NOBODY IN TAMPA 
WANTS TO PICK UP THE PUBLIX AT RACE TRACK ROAD AND 
HILLSBOROUGH AVENUE.
A YELLOW CAB OR A UNITED CAB BEING SENT TO THAT PUBLIX IS 
GOING TO -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WANT TO DO THAT, AND YET, 
MY OLDSMAR CABS, IF THEY'RE SITTING AT THE FLEA MARKET, 
LEGALLY CAN'T CROSS THE STREET AND PICK UP THAT PUBLIX.
I MEAN, IS THAT POSSIBLE?
>>GREG COX:  THERE'S A -- EXCUSE ME, MR. CHAIRMAN.
THERE'S A -- IT'S A FINE LINE.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE BOUNDARY OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY 
JURISDICTION, ACROSS THE LINE.
FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO TECHNICALLY DO THAT, HE'D HAVE TO GET 
A WAIVER FROM THE COMMISSION FOR OUR RULES THAT REQUIRE HIM 
TO BE PERMITTED AND LICENSED TO OPERATE IN HILLSBOROUGH 
COUNTY FOR THOSE PARTICULAR VEHICLES.
I'M NOT SURE YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THAT PATH, BUT IT'S ALWAYS 
A FEASIBILITY.
HE COULD SUBMIT A REQUEST FOR WAIVER OF THOSE PARTICULAR 
RULES, AND YOU COULD TAKE IT UP AND CONSIDER A WAIVER OF 
THE RULES TO ALLOW THOSE VEHICLES TO BE -- OPERATE WITHOUT 
PERMIT.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  COMMISSIONER BLAIR.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  IS IT TRUE, THEN, THAT NEITHER YELLOW CAB 
OR UNITED WANT TO GO TO THE PUBLIX THAT HE'S REFERRING TO?
IS THAT TRUE?
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  I MEAN, COULD I ASK MR. MINARDI TO APPROACH 
THE PODIUM.
>> DARRYL MINARDI, YELLOW CAB COMPANY OF TAMPA.
WE SERVICE THE WHOLE COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
IF SOMEONE CALLS FROM PUBLIX OUT THERE, WE GET THEM A CAB 
OUT THERE.
I MEAN, IF YOU START DOING THAT NEXT THING YOU KNOW HE'LL 
BE SAYING, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO GO TO WESTCHASE.
WE GO TO WESTCHASE.
YOU KNOW, THE RULES ARE THE RULES, AND WE'RE ALL LIVING BY 
THEM.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  RIGHT.
MY MAIN CONCERN IS THE PUBLIC IS BEING SERVICED.
>> ASK MR. COX HAS HE EVER HAD A COMPLAINT FROM THE PUBLIX 
OUT THERE.
I'VE NEVER HAD ONE.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU, MR. SMITH.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR CONSENT AGENDA.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE CONSENT AGENDA?
>> MOTION.
>> SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
MR. JOHNSON.
>>GREGG JOHNSON:  I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE SASHA BROWN TAYLOR.
SHE'S NEW IN OUR OFFICE, AND I THINK SHE'S GOING TO BE A 
VERY ABLE BACKUP.
THIS IS MS. TAYLOR.
SHE HAS A NICE RESUME, AND I THINK SHE'S GOING TO GET AN 
EYE-OPENER HERE TODAY JUST SITTING WITH THE PTC.
THE SECOND THING IS IF YOU REMEMBER A COUPLE MEETINGS AGO, 
THERE WAS A VOTE BY THE BOARD TO ADOPT OR TO PUT INTO PLACE 
EITHER A RESOLUTION OR A RULE, WE WEREN'T SURE EXACTLY AT 
THE TIME, FOR ADOPTING AN OATH FOR PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE 
TESTIMONY FOR QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS.
I DRAFTED A RESOLUTION FOR THAT.  
IT IS IN FRONT OF YOU.
A LOT OF IT IS MODELED OFF WHAT THE CITY OF TAMPA DOES.
IN FACT, SOME OF THE WORDING IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO WHAT 
THE CITY OF TAMPA DOES, AND THE WAY I SEE THIS HAPPENING IS 
YOU CAN EITHER -- AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE CITY, IN SOME OF 
THEIR CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCEEDINGS, WILL SWEAR EVERYBODY IN 
AT THE AUDIENCE THAT WANTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, 
OR YOU CAN CHOOSE TO DOST AS THE PEOPLE IN THE MEETING COME 
FORWARD OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, BUT THE RESOLUTION IS 
BEFORE YOU TODAY FOR ADOPTION, AND IF YOU'D CARE TO VOTE ON 
THAT.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  GREAT.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO MOVE THE RESOLUTION?
>> SO MOVE.
>> SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO MOVE THE 
RESOLUTION.
ALL IN FAVOR, AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
OPPOSED NAY.
AYES HAVE IT.
>>GREGG JOHNSON:  THANK YOU.
AND THE LAST ONE IS JUST A VERY BRIEF -- I WANTED TO INFORM 
YOU THAT THE CASE OF LORETTA POWELL -- IF YOU REMEMBER, 
MS. POWELL HAD COME IN FRONT OF US ASKING FOR -- 
ESSENTIALLY, TO HAVE THE DENIAL OF HER DRIVER'S LICENSE 
OVERTURNED, AND REMEMBER THE PROBLEM WAS THAT SHE DID NOT 
HAVE EMPLOYMENT, HAD NOBODY THAT WOULD EMPLOY HER.
SHE FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION 
COMMISSION.
REALLY, THE ALLEGATIONS WERE KIND OF BASED ON SOME SORT OF 
THOUGHT THAT THE PTC SOMEHOW EMPLOYED HER.
IT WAS REALLY WHAT HAPPENED.
BUT IN ANY EVENT, I WANTED TO ADVISE YOU THAT THAT LAWSUIT 
WAS DISMISSED BY THE FEDERAL COURT.
AND THAT'S ALL.
THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. COX -- 
MR. JOHNSON.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR NEW BUSINESS.
WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON S & S LIMOUSINES.
SINCE -- SINCE WE JUST ADOPTED OUR NEW RESOLUTION, 
MARGARET, ARE YOU GOING TO BE SWEARING THE -- THE FOLKS IN 
OR --
>>GREGG JOHNSON:  MR. WHITE, I THINK THE RESOLUTION 
ACTUALLY SAYS THE CHAIRMAN.
IT COULD BE HIS DESIGNEE, IF YOU WANT TO DESIGNATE SOMEONE.
THE OATH IS ACTUALLY IN THE RESOLUTION, ON THE VERBIAGE, IF 
YOU WANT TO READ IT.  
HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO IT.  
>>KEVIN WHITE:  SINCE WE JUST ADOPTED IT, WE MIGHT AS WELL 
GO AHEAD AND IMPLEMENT THIS TODAY.
ANYONE WHO IS GOING TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA AND 
IS GOING TO GIVE TESTIMONY, WOULD YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR 
RIGHT HAND AND -- SO YOU CAN BE SWORN IN.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, 
AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD?
>> I DO.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR FIRST PUBLIC HEARING, S & S LIMOUSINE, 
INC.
MR. JOHNSON -- MR. COX.
>>GREG COX:  THAT'S OKAY.
S & S LIMOUSINES, INC., OF SARASOTA HAS APPLIED FOR A 
LIMOUSINE CERTIFICATE AND THREE UNRESTRICTED VEHICLE 
PERMITS.
A HEARING OFFICER HEARING PUBLIC HEARING WAS HELD ON MAY 
13th, 2005, AND THE HEARING OFFICER, MR. ANTHONY J. 
COMPARETTO HAS RECOMMENDED THIS CERTIFICATE AND THREE 
VEHICLE PERMITS BE APPROVED.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  COMMISSIONERS' PLEASURE?
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
OPPOSED?
OKAY.
NUMBER 2, TAJ LIMO, LLC, MR. COX.
>>GREG COX:  YES, SIR.
TAJ LIMO, LLC, OF TAMPA HAS APPLIED FOR A LIMOUSINE 
CERTIFICATE AND THREE LIMOUSINE PERMITS.
A HEARING OFFICER PUBLIC HEARING WAS HELD ON MAY 12th, 
2005, AND THE HEARING OFFICER, MR. PAUL J. MARINO, HAS 
RECOMMENDED A CERTIFICATE BUT ONLY TWO OF THE LIMOUSINE 
PERMITS BE APPROVED.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  OKAY.
AND HOW MANY WERE ACTUALLY APPLIED FOR, MR. COX.
>>GREG COX:  THEY ASKED FOR THREE.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THREE.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  IS THERE BACKUP ON WHY THE THIRD ONE WASN'T 
APPROVED?
>>GREG COX:  THE HEARING OFFICER'S REPORT IS AT THE -- AT 
THE BEGINNING OF THE APPLICATION, AND USUALLY HE SUMMARIZES 
THAT.
IT SAYS, AFTER HAVING HEARD TESTIMONY PRESENTED REGARDING 
THE APPLICATION, HE RECOMMENDS APPROVAL, BUT ALSO 
RECOMMENDS THAT ONLY BE ISSUED TWO ON AN UNRESTRICTED BASIS 
UNTIL SUCH TIME AS HE CAN DEMONSTRATE TO THE COMMISSION AND 
MYSELF THAT SUFFICIENT BUSINESS IS THERE TO WARRANT AND 
SUPPORT A THIRD VEHICLE, SO I GUESS DURING -- DURING THE 
HEARING ITSELF, THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO SUSTAIN -- OR 
SUBSTANTIATE THEY NEEDED THREE COMFORTABLY.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  OKAY.
MOTION --
>>GREG COX:  AND THE APPLICANT IS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.  
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  MOTION TO APPROVE TWO.
>> SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE 
THE HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATION FOR TWO LIMOUSINE 
PERMITS.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
OPPOSED NAY.
THE THIRD APPLICATION IS FOR FIRST CLASS LIMOUSINE, LLC.
MR. COX.
>>GREG COX:  FIRST CLASS LIMOUSINE, LLC, OF RIVERVIEW HAS 
APPLIED FOR A LIMOUSINE CERTIFICATE AND ONE LIMOUSINE 
VEHICLE PERMIT.
HEARING OFFICER HEARING WAS HELD ON MAY 13th, 2005, AND THE 
HEARING OFFICER, MR. SYDNEY KILGORE, RECOMMENDED THAT THE 
CERTIFICATE AND ONE VEHICLE PERMIT BE APPROVED.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  OKAY.
COMMISSIONERS' PLEASURE ON THAT.
>>THOMAS SCOTT:  MOVE THE HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATION.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
OPPOSED NAY.
AYES HAVE IT.
FOURTH APPLICATION IS FOR DIAMOND STAR LIMOUSINE.
>>GREG COX:  DIAMOND STAR LIMOUSINE, INC., DOING BUSINESS 
AS PATRIOT LIMOUSINES AND SEDAN OF CLEARWATER, HAS APPLIED 
FOR TWO ADDITIONAL LIMOUSINE PERMITS.
I HAVE REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF 
THE REQUEST FOR THE TWO ADDITIONAL LIMOUSINE PERMITS.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  COMMISSIONERS' PLEASURE ON NUMBER 4?
>>THOMAS SCOTT:  MOVE STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES}
AYES HAVE IT.
NAYS?
AYES HAVE IT.
GOING TO GO TO ITEM "B," THE WAIVER OF THE RULES REQUEST --
IT REQUIRES A SUPERMAJORITY -- BY MR. DANIEL STEINER HERE.  
MR. COX.
>>GREG COX:  DANIEL STEINER LIMOUSINE, INC., HAS REQUESTED 
A WAIVER OF THE PTC RULES THAT ESTABLISH THE $40-PER-HOUR 
MINIMUM RATE FOR LIMOUSINE, SEDANS, AND SUVs.
SPECIFICALLY THE REQUEST IS A WAIVER OF APPENDIX 4 -- ITEM 
4, MINIMUM LIMOUSINE SEDAN RATES SET AT $40 PER HOUR WITH A 
ONE-HOUR MINIMUM PER TRIP.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  IS MR. STEINER OR A REPRESENTATIVE HERE IN 
THE AUDIENCE?
>>THOMAS SCOTT:  HE'S NOT HERE?
>>KEVIN WHITE:  COMMISSIONERS' PLEASURE ON THIS ITEM?
>> MOVE DENIAL.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  SECOND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR DENIAL OF 
THE WAIVER OF RULES ON ITEM "B" UNDER NEW BUSINESS.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
OPPOSED NAY.
AYES HAVE IT.
MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS.
CUTR IS GOING TO BE DOING A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION FOR US, 
SO IF THOSE FOLKS ARE HERE AND READY TO GO.
>>GREG COX:  LET ME GIVE A SHORT INTRODUCTION FOR THE REST 
OF THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT -- SOME MAY NOT HAVE BEEN HERE 
WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THIS PROCESS, BUT THE USF CENTER FOR 
URBAN TRANSPORTATION RESEARCH IS CONDUCT -- HAD CONDUCTED A 
STUDY THAT THE PTC REQUESTED REGARDING THE REGULATION OF 
STRETCH-STYLE LIMOUSINES AROUND THE STATE AND THE COUNTRY.
THE PURPOSE OF THE STUDY IS TO ASSIST THE PTC WITH ITS 
DECISIONS REGARDING FUTURE DECISIONS OF HOW TO REGULATE OR 
CHANGE RULES REGARDING STRETCH LIMOUSINES IN THE FUTURE.
CUTR REPRESENTATIVES ARE HERE TODAY TO PROVIDE YOU A SHORT 
PRESENTATION REGARDING THE RESULTS OF THIS STUDY.
>> GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
I'M STEVE REICH FROM CENTER OF URBAN TRANSPORTATION 
RESEARCH, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA, AND WITH ME ARE MY 
COLLEAGUES, SISSINIO CONCAS AND ALEX KOLPAKOV.
BEFORE I GET INTO THE FINDINGS OF THE STUDY, I'D JUST LIKE 
TO TAKE A MINUTE TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND TO THE 
COMMISSION ABOUT WHAT THE STUDY IS AND WHAT THE STUDY IS 
NOT.
THE PURPOSE OF THE STUDY, AS YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREENS -- I 
HOPE THAT YOU CAN SEE OUR PRESENTATION -- WAS TO BASICALLY 
GO OUT AND INVESTIGATE WHAT REGULATIONS EXIST AROUND THE 
COUNTRY AND IN CANADA AND WHAT WERE THE DRIVERS IN THE 
DECISIONS TO REGULATE THE -- THE TYPES OF STRETCH 
LIMOUSINES THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED IN PARTICULAR 
JURISDICTIONS.
THE STUDY WAS -- IS NOT TO DETERMINE THE EFFICACY OF THE 
EXISTING REGULATIONS OR TO RECOMMEND CHANGES TO YOU, BUT 
MERELY TO PROVIDE BACKGROUND TO YOU AS YOU THINK ABOUT THIS 
ISSUE MOVING FORWARD.
SO THE APPROACH IS PRETTY FAIRLY SIMPLE.
IT WAS JUST TO GO OUT AND GATHER THE DATA, TRY TO INTERVIEW 
AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE COULD, DOCUMENT THAT FOR YOU, AND 
PRESENT THAT TO YOU HERE THIS MORNING VERBALLY AS WELL AS 
IN A WRITTEN REPORT.  
JUST AS -- AGAIN, IN A WAY OF BACKGROUND, ACCORDING TO THE 
NATIONAL LIMOUSINE ASSOCIATION, OF THE ROUGHLY 52,000 
STRETCH LIMOS IN THE UNITED STATES, OVER 9,000 WERE EITHER 
SUPER STRETCH LIMOS OR STRETCH SUVs IN 2004.  
STRETCH LIMOS AND STRETCH SUVs ACCOUNTED FOR 49 PERCENT OF 
THE REVENUE INDUSTRYWIDE BUT ABOUT 41% OF THE FLEET TOTAL.
IT'S A GROWING SECTION, NO QUESTION, OF THE INDUSTRY.
AGAIN IN 2004, WE SEE THE STRETCH AND THE STRETCH SUVs AT 
49% OF THE REVENUE SHARE, BUT THIS MARKED A 20% GROWTH OVER 
2003 TO 2004, AGAIN, INDICATING THAT -- THAT THE MARKET FOR 
THESE SUPER STRETCHES AND STRETCH LIMOS IS A GROWING PART 
OF THE -- OF THE BUSINESS.
I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO READ THIS -- THIS EYE CHART, BUT 
AGAIN, FOR THE PURPOSES OF BACKGROUND, THE RULES OF THIS 
BODY DEFINE THE LIMO AS A VEHICLE FOR HIRE THAT HAS A 
CAPACITY OF 15 PASSENGERS OR FEWER, INCLUDING THOSE THAT 
HAVE BEEN MODIFIED OR EXTENDED TO PROVIDE LUXURY SERVICES 
AND AREN'T CLEARLY A TAXI WITH A METER AND SO FORTH.
NOW, THE INDUSTRY IS REGULATED BY NHTSA OR THE NATIONAL 
HIGHWAY TRANSPORTATION SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, AND FEDERAL 
MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS APPLY TO ALL VEHICLES -- ALL 
PASSENGER VEHICLES, NOT JUST LIMOUSINES, AND THESE 
STANDARDS INVOLVE TESTS FOR CRASHWORTHINESS, SAFETY 
EQUIPMENT, AND THEY HAVE SEVERAL THRESHOLDS IN THE FEDERAL 
REGULATIONS AT WHICH A VEHICLE NO LONGER BECOMES A 
PASSENGER VEHICLE, IT BECOMES A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE, AND 
THEREBY, A COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE IS REQUIRED AND THAT 
SORT OF THING, AND A COUPLE OF THOSE TRIGGERS ARE GROSS 
VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING IN EXCESS OF 10,000 POUNDS OR IF THE 
VEHICLE IS DESIGNED OR DOES CARRY IN EXCESS OF 15 
PASSENGERS.
NOW, PEOPLE WHO KNOW -- NO ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER, OEM, 
ACTUALLY BUILDS A LIMOUSINE.
THEY BUILD THE BASE LIMOUSINE, AND THEN COACHBUILDERS TAKE 
THESE VEHICLES AND MODIFY THEM.  
COACHBUILDERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SELF-CERTIFICATION THAT 
THE MODIFIED VEHICLE MEETS THESE FEDERAL STANDARDS.
THE TESTS COSTS TO MEET THESE STANDARDS CAN COST IN EXCESS 
OF $75,000 IN ADDITION TO THE COST OF A VEHICLE THAT, IN 
SOME CASES, HAS TO BE CRASHED OR DESTROYED IN ORDER TO 
DEMONSTRATE THAT THE VEHICLE CAN SATISFACTORILY MEET THE 
COLLISION-WORTHINESS STANDARDS, OCCUPANT PROTECTION, 
FLAMMABILITY ISSUES, BRAKE SAFETY AFTER THE VEHICLE HAS 
BEEN MODIFIED.  
IT ALL SOUNDS VERY COMPLICATED, AND IT PROBABLY IS, SO 
THERE IS A CERTIFICATION PROCESS OR PROGRAMS THAT EXIST.
TWO OF THEM HAVE BEEN INSTITUTED FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, ONE 
BY LINCOLN MERCURY, FORD AND THE OTHER BY GENERAL MOTORS.
THESE PROGRAMS ALLOW THE MANUFACTURERS TO SHARE THEIR 
EXPERTISE WITH COACHBUILDERS IN THE AREAS OF ENGINEERING 
SAFETY, AND BECAUSE THEIR PROGRAMS ARE VERY SIMILAR, BOTH 
THE GENERAL MOTORS AND THE FORD, OUR REPORT IN THIS 
PRESENTATION WILL FOCUS MAINLY ON THE FORD PROGRAM, AS TO 
NOT TAKE UP A LOT OF YOUR TIME, BUT THE PROCESS IS PRETTY 
RIGOROUS, AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY SIMILAR.
JUST TO GIVE YOU A FLAVOR FOR WHAT IT TAKES -- WHAT THE 
CERTIFICATION INVOLVES, THIS IS FORD'S QVM PROGRAM.
AS I SAID, THERE IS A GENERAL MOTORS' CALLED A CADILLAC 
MASTER COACH CONSTRUCTORS -- COACHBUILDERS AS WELL.  
THE COACHBUILDER HAS TO BE EVALUATED BY FORD.
THEY HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE EXPERTISE IN THEIR PROCESSES.  
FORD ACTUALLY COMES OUT AND ANNUALLY INSPECTS THE VEHICLES 
WHERE THESE VEHICLES ARE BEING MODIFIED, AND BOTH PROGRAMS 
ARE DESIGNED TO, AS BEST AS THEY CAN, ENSURE THAT THE 
VEHICLE THAT'S BEING SOLD MEETS THE FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE 
SAFETY STANDARDS.
THE -- THEY REQUIRE MANDATORY TESTING, BOTH OF FRONT, REAR, 
AND SIDE IMPACT CRASHWORTHINESS, AND IN EXCHANGE FOR THAT, 
THEY DO GET AN OEM WARRANTY, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T FALL 
UNDER ONE OF THEIR PROGRAMS, IF YOU CUT ONE OF THEIR CARS 
IN HALF, THE WARRANTY IS VOID UNLESS YOU PARTICIPATE IN ONE 
OF THESE PROGRAMS.
THEN THEY'LL GIVE YOU A WARRANTY.  
FOR EXAMPLE, IN A LINCOLN TOWN CAR, THAT WARRANTY WILL BE 
GOOD FOR FOUR YEARS OR 150,000 MILES.
THEY LIMIT THE SPECIFIC MODELS THAT CAN BE MODIFIED, AND 
YOU SEE THE MODELS THERE FOR FORD ARE THE TOWN CAR, 
EXCURSION, AND NAVIGATOR, AND THEY LIMIT THE LENGTH TO 
WHICH THESE CARS OR THESE VEHICLES CAN BE EXTENDED, AND YOU 
SEE THE LINCOLN TOWN CAR CAN BE EXTENDED UP TO A MAXIMUM OF 
120 INCHES AND THE NAVIGATOR AND EXCURSION TO 140 INCHES.
ANECDOTALLY, THESE PROGRAMS WERE PUT INTO PLACE AS A RESULT 
OF SEVERAL LAWSUITS AND -- AND HIGH-PROFILE VEHICLES, ONE 
IN NEW YORK CITY WHERE A WEDDING PARTY WAS HIT BROADSIDE, 
AND THE VEHICLE WAS ACTUALLY CUT IN HALF, AND ALL THE 
PEOPLE CEASED IN THE ACCIDENT, AND THERE WERE LOTS OF 
LAWSUITS.
AND NHTSA ACTUALLY ENCOURAGED THE MANUFACTURERS TO POOL 
THEIR RESOURCES AND COME UP WITH THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS.
SO WE CONTACTED 29 STATES.
WHAT WE LOOKED AT WERE STATES WITH A POPULATION THAT HAD 
METROPOLITAN AREAS IN EXCESS OF THREE MILLION PEOPLE, AND 
ALSO, WE LOOKED AT THE CANADIAN PROVINCES TO LOOK AT THE 
REGULATIONS AND DO SOME INTERVIEWS.
AGAIN, WHILE EVERY STATE HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE FEDERAL 
REGULATIONS, THERE'S A WIDE VARIATION OF -- OF HOW STRICT 
AND -- THESE OTHER STATES AND JURISDICTIONS BECOME.
ANOTHER EYE CHART FOR YOU.
THOSE THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED HAVE SOME SORT OF REGULATION 
BEYOND JUST THE ADOPTION OF THE FEDERAL -- FEDERAL REGS, 
AND I WON'T TAKE UP A LOT OF YOUR TIME THIS MORNING, BUT A 
COUPLE OF THE JURISDICTIONS I JUST WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS ON, 
AND AGAIN, THEY'RE IN THE REPORT, AND I'LL BE HERE TO 
ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
CONNECTICUT REGULATES BOTH THE LENGTH, WEIGHT, SEATING 
CAPACITY, AND REQUIRES THAT OEM CERTIFICATION FOR THEIR 
LIMOUSINES OPERATING IN THEIR JURISDICTION, SO AGAIN, IF 
YOU LOOKED AT THE REQUIREMENTS OF BOTH THE GENERAL MOTORS 
AND THE FORD PROGRAM, THOSE ARE THE MINIMUM STANDARDS AT 
WHICH YOU CAN REGISTER AND OPERATE A LIMOUSINE IN THE STATE 
OF -- STATE OF CONNECTICUT.
IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST RESTRICTIVE AND TOUGHEST -- 
TOUGHEST SETS OF REGULATIONS THAT WE FOUND.
NEW JERSEY, IN FACT, HAS A DE FACTO STANDARD HERE BY THE 
WAY THEY'VE SET UP THE RULES.
A LIMO CANNOT CARRY MORE THAN 14 PEOPLE, AND YOU CAN'T 
INCREASE THE VEHICLE MORE THAN FOUR PASSENGERS BEYOND WHAT 
THE ORIGINAL VEHICLE WAS DESIGNED AND TESTED FOR, AND THIS, 
AGAIN, APPLIES TO VEHICLES OPERATING IN THE STATE, WHETHER 
OR NOT THEY'RE REGISTERED IN PENNSYLVANIA OR NEW YORK OR 
CONNECTICUT.
ANYBODY WHO OPERATES IN NEW JERSEY HAS TO MEET THE 
REGULATIONS.
AND AN INTERESTING THING AS WE LOOKED AT THIS WHOLE ISSUE 
IS THAT IF YOU DON'T ADEQUATELY DEFINE A BUS, THERE'S A -- 
THERE'S A VERY LARGE HOLE IN THE REGULATIONS THAT ANYONE 
CAN SORT OF DRIVE THROUGH, SO IN A LOT OF THESE 
JURISDICTIONS, YOU'LL SEE THAT WE MAKE THE COMMENT THAT THE 
STATE OR THE CITY HAS TIGHTLY DEFINED WHAT A BUS IS TO 
DISTINGUISH IT FROM A LIMOUSINE, AND LIKE CONNECTICUT, 
JERSEY HAS CLOSED THAT LOOPHOLE BY -- BY VERY STRINGENTLY 
DEFINING A BUS.
THE -- IN FACT, THE STATE OF NEW YORK APPROACHED THE WHOLE 
ISSUE BY NOT TRYING TO DEFINE "LIMO," BUT TRYING TO 
NARROWLY DEFINE "BUS," AND YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE 
CHARACTERISTICS THERE ON THE SLIDE.
AND AGAIN, THEY CAME UP WITH A STATEWIDE ALTERED VEHICLE 
POLICY, BUT IT AGAIN IS -- IS -- IS -- REALLY, THERE'S VERY 
WEAK ENFORCEMENT, AND IT RELIES ON THE SELF-CERTIFICATION 
OF THE VEHICLE MODIFIER TO SAY THAT THE MODIFIED VEHICLES 
MEET THE FEDERAL STANDARDS.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THOUGH, NEW YORK CITY IS VERY -- IS AS 
STRICT AS CONNECTICUT, AND THEY BASICALLY -- THE LAW IS 
THERE -- OR THE RULE IS THERE THAT ONLY VEHICLES THAT HAVE 
BEEN MODIFIED UNDER THE OEM PROGRAMS ARE ALLOWED TO OPERATE 
IN MANHATTAN -- IN THE BOROUGHS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, 
AND IN FACT, IF THE SEATING CAPACITY IS IN EXCESS OF NINE 
PEOPLE, THEY HAVE TO BE INSPECTED EVERY FOUR MONTHS, AND -- 
AND IN ALL THE CASES -- AND AGAIN, IT'S IN THE REPORT, BUT 
FOR EXAMPLE, NEW YORK CITY, THERE ARE MINIMAL -- MINIMUM 
LIABILITY INSURANCE THRESHOLDS THAT ARE ALSO REGULATED.
IN NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE LIABILITY INSURANCE 
REQUIREMENTS GO UP.
IF A VEHICLE IS NINE TO 15 PASSENGERS, THEY HAVE TO CARRY A 
MINIMUM OF $1.5 OF LIABILITY INSURANCE.
A COUPLE OF OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
I WON'T GO THROUGH THESE.
AGAIN, IF YOU WANT MORE DETAIL, I'M HERE TO ANSWER 
QUESTIONS, AND THE DATA IS IN THE REPORT, BUT MINNESOTA, 
MISSOURI, AND NEVADA HAVE SOME FURTHER RESTRICTIONS BEYOND 
WHAT'S IN THE FEDERAL LAW.
AGAIN, MANY OF THE -- MANY OF THE JURISDICTIONS GET AT THE 
ISSUE BY NARROWLY DEFINING "BUS" AS OPPOSED TO GOING RIGHT 
AT "LIMO."
AND THEN IN THE STATE OF -- STATE OF FLORIDA, AGAIN, 
THERE'S A LACK OF DISTINCTION IN THE STATE STATUTES BETWEEN 
A BUS AND A LIMO, BUT THERE'S SEVERAL LOCAL ORDINANCES THAT 
HAVE BEEN APPLIED, THE MOST RESTRICTIVE OF WHICH, I GUESS, 
IS IN KEY WEST THAT WE FOUND, AND THAT IS VEHICLES FOR HIRE 
WITH A SEATING CAPACITY IN EXCESS OF EIGHT AREN'T ALLOWED 
TO OPERATE IN THE CITY.
WEST PALM BEACH LIMITS IT TO A 16-PASSENGER VEHICLE.
YOU CAN SEE ST. PETERSBURG AND FORT LAUDERDALE.
SO THERE ARE A COUPLE -- A COUPLE OF OUR CONCLUSIONS ARE 
THERE APPEARS TO BE WIDE VARIATION IN ENFORCEMENT OF LIMOS 
IN STRETCH AND SUPER STRETCH LIMOS BOTH ACROSS THE U.S. AND 
CANADA AS WELL AS IN FLORIDA.
IN OUR RESEARCH, WE COULD FIND THAT TWO STATES, CONNECTICUT 
AND NEW JERSEY, PLUS NEW YORK CITY -- THEY'RE THE ONLY 
THREE JURISDICTIONS THAT WE COULD FIND THAT EXPRESSLY 
PROHIBIT ANY LIMO EXCEPT THOSE THAT ARE CERTIFIED BY THE 
TWO OEM CERTIFICATION PROGRAMS.
BUT AS I SAID EARLIER, THERE APPEARS TO BE A SIGNIFICANT 
GAP IN THE CURRENT SET OF REGULATIONS IN FLORIDA AND IN 
OTHER STATES FOR THOSE WHO'D WANT TO SKIRT THE SCRUTINY OF 
THE REGULATIONS.
LAST SLIDE.
AGAIN, THERE'S NOT A UNIFORM DEFINITION FOR "STRETCH LIMO" 
IN THE U.S. OR IN FLORIDA, AND THIS COULD LEAD TO WE SAY 
EXPLOITATIONS OF THE SELF-CERTIFICATION PROCESS.
ANOTHER INTERESTING THING IN TRYING TO DO THE RESEARCH IS 
THE INCONSISTENCY IN ANY TRAFFIC STATISTICS AND SAFETY 
RECORDS BECAUSE WE REALLY WANTED TO TRY AND LOOK AT FOR THE 
COMMISSION TO SEE IF THERE WERE, YOU KNOW, HIGHER FATALITY 
RATES OR WHATEVER, BUT SINCE A NEW VIN NUMBER IS NOT 
REQUIRED OR DOESN'T OFTEN HAPPEN, PARTICULARLY IN SELF-
CERTIFICATION CASES, IF YOU EITHER LOOK AT A NATIONAL 
DATABASE, A HUMMER THAT'S BEEN STRETCHED TO CARRY 20 PEOPLE 
WILL STILL SHOW UP IN THE DATABASE AS A MANUFACTURED HUMMER 
THAT CARRIES WHATEVER IT'S DESIGNED TO CARRY, SIX PEOPLE OR 
FOUR PEOPLE OR WHATEVER, AND THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT 
TO TRY AND GIVE YOU SOME ADVICE ON THE SAFETY STATISTICS.
PLUS, I MEAN, IN TERMS OF THE ENTIRE VEHICLE POPULATION, 
THE LIMO POPULATION IS PRETTY SMALL.  
SO I'D SAY FROM THE INFORMATION THAT WE GATHERED FOR THIS 
LIMITED STUDY THAT WE CAN REALLY SAY THREE THINGS, THAT 
THERE -- THERE CLEARLY APPEAR TO BE NON-OEM-CERTIFIED 
MODIFIERS THAT DO MEET THE FEDERAL STANDARDS AND TAKE THE 
SELF-CERTIFICATION SERIOUSLY AND THAT THE CERTIFIED 
MODIFIERS ARE MOST CERTAINLY MEETING THE FEDERAL STANDARDS 
FOR SAFETY, BUT THAT SELF-CERTIFICATION AND LACK OF 
RESOURCES FOR ENFORCEMENT OR ENFORCEMENT MANDATES REALLY 
DOES CREATE A HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE OPERATION OF LIMOS 
THAT -- THAT DON'T MEET THE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE 
SET FORTH BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THE COMMISSION 
AND TO MAKE THE PRESENTATION.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU, MR. REICH.
COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  I WAS JUST WONDERING WHY NEW YORK ONLY 
ALLOWS THOSE TWO CERTIFICATIONS TO BE COMPLIANT.
>> AGAIN, THEY -- THE HIGH-PROFILE ACCIDENT I REFERRED TO 
IN -- I THINK IT WAS IN 1987 OCCURRED IN THE CITY OF NEW 
YORK.
IF YOU -- IF YOU RELY ON THOSE TWO CERTIFICATIONS, YOU'RE 
ALMOST GUARANTEED THAT THE VEHICLES THAT ARE OUT THERE WILL 
MEET THE FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS, AND THAT'S 
THE SAME THING IN CONNECTICUT AND DE FACTO IN NEW JERSEY.
THEY'VE DESIGNED THEIR RULES TO -- THEY DON'T SAY IT AS 
EXPLICITLY AS NEW YORK CITY AND CONNECTICUT, BUT THOSE 
THREE JURISDICTIONS ESSENTIALLY DO THAT.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  WOULD YOU SAY OUR RULES ARE STRINGENT 
ENOUGH HERE FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR PUBLIC?
>> I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO ASK THAT QUESTION, AND -- AND 
THAT WAS REALLY OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE STUDY.
I -- I'LL SPEAK AS STEVE REICH, CITIZEN, NOT AS STEVE 
REICH, CUTR RESEARCHER FOR UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA, AND 
I'D SAY THIS, THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT TWO KIDS THAT ARE 
OF -- OF PROM AGE NOW COMING ON, AND I WOULD CHECK TO SEE 
IF THE LIMO I WAS HIRING WAS MODIFIED UNDER ONE OF THOSE 
TWO PROGRAMS.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>GREG COX:  MR. CHAIRMAN.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  YES.
>>GREG COX:  COULD I HAVE JUST A FEW MINUTES?  
I JUST WANT TO DRIVE HOME A FEW POINTS FROM THIS STUDY.
FROM MY KNOWLEDGE, IN LOOKING AT THIS IN THE LAST COUPLE 
YEARS, THIS REPORT IS VERY SCIENTIFIC AND DETAILED AND VERY 
INFORMATIVE, BUT THERE'S SOME KEY POINTS THAT NEED TO BE 
DRIVEN HOME FOR YOU-ALL IN FUTURE DECISIONS.
MANY OF THE VEHICLES THAT ARE CURRENTLY LICENSED BY US AND 
ARE ALLOWED TO BE OPERATED AS STRETCH LIMOUSINES BY US ARE 
NOT QVM OR CMC CERTIFIED BECAUSE THERE IS LITTLE, IF NO -- 
NO, DISCUSSION IN THE FLORIDA STATUTES ABOUT STRETCH 
LIMOUSINES.
IT'S -- IT'S A -- IT'S AN IGNORED TOPIC.
UNDER D.O.T. LAWS, AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED -- YOU CAN'T 
EVEN FIND THE WORD "LIMOUSINE" IN FLORIDA STATUTES.  
THE ONLY DEFINITION OF "LIMOUSINE" THAT YOU CAN FIND IN ANY 
LAW THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIND IS OUR LAW, WHICH GIVES US 
A LOT OF AUTHORITY LOCALLY BECAUSE WE HAVE A DEFINITION, 
IT'S NOT ELSEWHERE.
BUT THE POINT OF THE MATTER IS THERE ARE A LOT OF VEHICLES 
OUT THERE THAT CONCERN ME THAT HAVE BEEN STRETCHED AND 
MODIFIED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT OVM OR CMC CERTIFIED.
WE HAVE NO STATISTICS TO BACKUP THAT THEY'RE UNSAFE.
I'M NOT PERSONALLY CLAIMING THAT THEY'RE UNSAFE.
IT'S JUST I DON'T KNOW, AND -- AND THE OTHER POINT I WANT 
TO DRIVE HOME IS THAT OTHER STATES AND COUNTRIES AROUND 
THE -- AND CANADA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE TAKEN SEVERE 
STEPS TO ELIMINATE THE USE OF THESE VEHICLES IN THEIR 
LOCALITIES OR EVEN IN THEIR COUNTRIES BECAUSE OF THESE SAME 
CONCERNS.
NHTSA IS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT, BUT THEY ARE VERY SLOW IN 
THEIR MOVING FORWARD ON THIS, BUT I'VE TALKED TO THE 
REPRESENTATIVES, AND THEY ARE CONCERNED, AND THEY'RE DOING 
STUDIES ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD BE MORE FEDERAL 
REGULATION OF THESE NONCERTIFIED -- THEY'RE NONCERTIFIED BY 
THE MANUFACTURER.
THEY ARE CERTIFIED BY THE PERSON THAT STRETCHES THEM.
THEY ARE SELF-CERTIFIED, YOU KNOW, AND SO YOU'VE GOT TO 
JUST DECIDE YOURSELF WHETHER OR NOT THAT MEETS THE 
REQUIREMENT.
SO WHAT -- WHAT I INTEND OR WOULD LIKE TO DO WITH THIS 
INFORMATION IS I'M GOING TO -- I WANT TO TRY TO PURSUE AT 
LEAST GETTING THIS IN THE HANDS OF STATE D.O.T. FOLKS AND 
TRY TO KEEP PUSHING POSSIBLY FOR MAYBE THERE TO BE SOME 
STATE RESEARCH, STATE LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD 
BE STATE REGULATION OF THESE SUPER STRETCH VEHICLES.
WE -- I THINK WE'RE ON THE FOREFRONT IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY 
OF LOOKING AT THIS, AND -- AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE 
AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE ASKED FOR THIS REPORT THAT ARE 
VERY INTERESTED IN OUR STUDY BECAUSE THERE IS A MOVEMENT ON 
THESE, SO I'M JUST GIVING YOU ALL THIS INFORMATION SO THAT 
WHEN WE COME DOWN THE ROAD AND START HAVING TO LOOK AT 
RULES, IF THERE ARE RULES THAT TALK ABOUT NOT ALLOWING US 
TO USE SOME OF THESE VEHICLES HERE, THAT YOU'LL HAVE THE 
BACKGROUND HERE IN THIS STUDY TO AT LEAST HAVE SOME 
INFORMATION.  
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU, MR. COX.
THANK YOU, MR. REICH.
>> THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  I THOROUGHLY APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION AT 
THIS POINT.
WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT OUR '06-'07 DRAFT BUDGET.
MR. COX.
>>GREG COX:  I'VE GIVEN YOU IN YOUR AGENDA TO TAKE WITH YOU 
IS OUR DRAFT FOR THE '06-'07 BUDGET FOR THE PTC.
I'M NOT ASKING FOR A DECISION TODAY, I'M JUST GIVING YOU 
UNTIL OUR NEXT PTC MEETING.  
BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU CAN 
CALL ME, AND WE CAN TAKE IT UP ON AN AGENDA ITEM AT THE 
NEXT PTC MEETING FOR RATIFICATION BY THE COMMISSION OR -- 
OR CHANGE IF NECESSARY, SO IT'S INCLUDED IN THERE FOR YOU, 
AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS DURING THE COURSE OF THE 
MONTH OR NOW TO TALK ABOUT IT, I'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. COX.
WE'RE GOING TO -- IF YOU COULD BRING US UP-TO-DATE ON OUR 
EMERGENCY RULE EXTENSION FOR FUEL COSTS.
>>GREG COX:  YES, SIR.
AS -- AT THE APRIL PTC MEETING, YOU APPROVED THE EMERGENCY 
RULE TO ALLOW THE TAXI METER INCREASE OF 25 CENTS FOR THE 
INITIAL 1/5 OF A MILE AND TO ADD A $5 FUEL SURCHARGE FOR 
THE TOWING RATES FOR FUEL SURCHARGE.
I'M PROVIDING YOU WITH AN UPDATE, AND I'VE GIVEN YOU THAT 
SEPARATELY TODAY.
AND THAT UPDATE SHOWS YOU THAT THEY'RE FORECASTING 
THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER EITHER AT OR IN EXCESS OF $2.17 A 
GALLON, WHICH IS STILL FAIRLY SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE WHERE IT 
WAS LAST YEAR.
I STILL RECOMMEND THAT WE -- THAT YOU APPROVE THE 
CONTINUATION OF THIS EMERGENCY RULE FOR -- UNTIL THE NEXT 
PTC MEETING AND POSSIBLY INTO THE TIME WHEN WE CONSIDER A 
RULE CHANGE AND MAYBE CHANGE THE RULES TO UP -- UP THAT 
RATE PERMANENTLY, THE MAXIMUM RATE.
AND PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, WE ONLY SET THE MAXIMUM RATE.
THE COMPANIES CAN ALWAYS ADJUST LOWER.
THEY CAN SET THE RATES LOWER IF THEY WISH.
WE ONLY SET THE MAXIMUM THEY CAN GO TO, SO IF YOU CHANGE 
THE RULE EVENTUALLY TO BE $2 INSTEAD OF $1.75 FOR THE DROP 
AND THEY WISH TO, FOR MARKET REASONS, DROP IT DOWN, THEY 
CAN DO THAT.
WE'RE JUST GIVING THEM THE FLEXIBILITY WITH THE EMERGENCY 
RULE TO GO UP TO $2, AND SO I RECOMMEND THAT WE CONTINUE OR 
THAT YOU REINSTITUTE THE EMERGENCY RULE FOR THE NEXT MONTH 
ON THOSE RATES.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  DO WE HAVE A MOTION ON THAT FROM THE FLOOR?
>>THOMAS SCOTT:  SO MOVE.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>KEVIN WHITE:  SECOND.
WE HAVE A -- A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION SAY AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
OPPOSED?
AYES HAVE IT.
MR. COX, JUST TO BRIEF YOU REAL QUICKLY ON THIS, I WAS IN 
MIAMI THIS PAST WEEK, AND I WAS LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENCE 
BETWEEN THE FUEL CHARGES OR FUEL PRICES HERE VERSUS MIAMI, 
AND ALTHOUGH FUEL PRICES ARE DROPPING HERE OR APPEAR TO BE 
DROPPING, THEY'RE STILL RATHER HIGH IN CERTAIN PARTS OF 
FLORIDA ITSELF.
REGULAR UNLEADED WAS 2.21, AND PREMIUM UNLEADED WAS OVER 
2.50, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IN THE -- IN THE 
REGIONALITY IS, BUT I'M SURE IT'S GOING TO BE COMING BACK 
THIS WAY OR IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO DROP, SO WE OUGHT TO 
BE ABLE TO COME TO, I THINK, A REASONABLE CONCLUSION TO 
THIS WITHIN THE NEXT 30 DAYS.
>>GREG COX:  A WEEK AGO I DID THE SAME CHECK WITH THE 
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, AND IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS DROPPING.
IN FACT, IT HAD DROPPED ABOUT SEVEN CENTS.
I LOOKED AT IT THIS MORNING.
IN ONE WEEK IT SHOT BACK UP AGAIN.
THEY'RE ACTUALLY FORECASTING IT'S GOING TO GO UP A LITTLE 
MORE AND LEVEL OFF IN THE SUMMER.
I WAS HOPING THEY WERE ON THE WAY DOWN, BUT IT DOESN'T 
APPEAR THEIR FORECAST SAYS THAT, SO ...
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER BLAIR, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING?
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  YEAH, THAT'S A TOUCHY SUBJECT, IT REALLY 
IS, RIGHT THERE.
AGAIN, I'D APPROVE THE 30 DAYS, BUT I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT 
THAT INTO THE FUTURE BECAUSE IT IS A FORM OF A -- A FORM OF 
A TAX ALMOST IN MY OPINION.
I MEAN, WE'RE -- IF FUEL DROPS TO 1.50, WHICH IT VERY WELL 
MIGHT -- MAY.
I MEAN, I SAW IT FOR 1.99 YESTERDAY.  
AT THE RACE TRACK ROAD ON 60 AND VALRICO IT'S 1.99, SO IT'S 
GOING DOWN AND GOING DOWN, SO I DON'T WANT TO PUNISH THE 
PUBLIC IF THE GAS CONTINUES TO GO DOWN.
THANK YOU.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU.
DOES ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER HAVE ANYTHING, BECAUSE THAT'S 
COMPLETES OUR AGENDA?
IF NOT, WE STAND ADJOURNED UNTIL NEXT MONTH.



1