CAPTIONING
JULY 29, 2008
BOCC WORKSHOP
BUDGET

***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the 
***following meeting.  It should be used for informational 
***purposes only.  This document has not been edited; 
***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words 
***that did not translate.

>>KEN HAGAN:  GOOD AFTERNOON, AND WELCOME TO THE JULY 29th 
BUDGET WORKSHOP.
THIS IS I THINK I BELIEVE OUR 8th OR 9th WORKSHOP THAT 
WE'VE HAD PRIOR TO ADOPTING OUR FISCAL YEAR '09 BUDGET.
ON THURSDAY OF THIS WEEK WE WILL HAVE OUR FINAL BUDGET 
RECONCILIATION WORKSHOP, AND AT THIS TIME, I'LL PASS THINGS 
OVER TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR SOME OPENING REMARKS.
>>PAT BEAN:  YES, SIR.
TODAY IS OUR 8th BUDGET WORKSHOP ON THIS '09 BUDGET, AND 
TODAY WE WILL BEGIN OUR AGENDA WITH AN UPDATE ON THE STATE 
OF THE THREE MAJOR FUNDS -- MAJOR TAX FUNDS, AND THEN WE'LL 
COVER A FOLLOW-UP ON A CHANGE IN THE PLANNING AND GROWTH 
MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT BUDGET IN COMPARISON WITH WORKLOAD 
INDICATORS.
AFTER THAT WE'LL CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION OF OPTIONS 
REGARDING FUNDING OF RECREATION PROGRAMS, AND FINALLY, A 
BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE CAPITAL BUDGET AND THE CIP.
LAST WEEK WE DISTRIBUTED TO YOUR OFFICES A BINDER 
CONTAINING THE RESPONSES FOR INFORMATION REQUESTS, AND WE 
HAVE ALSO PROVIDED BACKUP NEEDED FOR SOME OF THE FLAGGED 
ITEMS, AND WE'LL CONTINUE THAT PROCESS UP UNTIL WE GET TO 
THURSDAY.
SO PLEASE LET US KNOW IF THERE IS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION 
THAT YOU NEED OR IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THE 
FLAGGED ITEMS.
TUESDAY'S WORKSHOP WILL BE --
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  THURSDAY'S.
>>PAT BEAN:  YES.
THURSDAY'S RECONCILIATION WORKSHOP WILL BE ANOTHER 
OPPORTUNITY TO FLAG ITEMS TO BE CONSIDERED; HOWEVER, OF 
COURSE, IF WE FLAG THEM AT THAT MEETING, IT'LL BE TOUGH FOR 
US TO TURN AROUND THE ANSWERS FOR YOU TO FINISH THEM THAT 
DAY, BUT WE'LL DO OUR BEST.
THAT WORKSHOP BEGINS AT 9:00 A.M. AND CONTINUES AS NEEDED 
THROUGH THE MORNING AND WILL PICK UP AGAIN AT 1:30 IF WE 
HAVE NOT COMPLETED OUR WORK DURING THE MORNING HOURS, AND 
AT THAT MEETING YOU WILL TAKE YOUR FIRST VOTE ON THE 
MILLAGE RATES FOR THE FY 09 YEAR.
THOSE BECOME THE BASIS FOR THE TRIM MILLAGE OR TRUTH IN 
MILLAGE, NOTICES SENT TO EACH PROPERTY OWNER IN AUGUST.
AFTER THAT MEETING, THE MILLAGE RATES CAN ONLY BE LOWERED, 
THEY CANNOT BE INCREASED.
AND WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO ERIC JOHNSON TO 
KICK THIS OFF AND GET US THROUGH THIS AGENDA.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  COMMISSIONERS, YOU SHOULD HAVE AGAIN A 
COPY OF A SCHEDULE THAT SHOWS THE THREE TAX FUNDS.
WE'VE TITLED IT UPDATE ON THE BUDGET TAX FUNDS AS OF JULY 
29th.
A FEW CHANGES SINCE LAST WEEK.
FIRST OF ALL, ONE THING WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT IS WE KNOW 
THAT THE BOARD HAD INDICATED EARLIER AT AN EARLIER WORKSHOP 
CONCERN ABOUT THE FACT THAT WITH THE LOWER TAX BASES WE'D 
ANTICIPATED INCREASES IN OUR GENERAL OBLIGATION MILLAGE 
RATES.
WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH DEBT MANAGEMENT, THE ATTORNEY'S 
OFFICE, AND OUR BOND COUNSEL, AND WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS 
MAYBE THE BEST APPROACH TO DEALING WITH WHAT MAY JUST BE A 
ONE-TIME INCREASE TO A HIGHER MILLAGE RATE -- ALTHOUGH WE 
CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TAX BASE WILL DO NEXT YEAR, 
WE BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD BEFORE THE END OF THIS YEAR TAKE 
SOME OF THE SAVINGS FROM OUR TURNOVER AND MAKE A 
CONTRIBUTION TO EACH OF THOSE DEBT SERVICE ACCOUNTS, ONE 
FOR THE ELAPP BONDS, A SECOND ONE FOR THE PARKS BONDS FOR 
OUR UNINCORPORATED IMPROVEMENTS.
THOSE ARE THE TWO TYPES OF GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS 
OUTSTANDING, AND SO IF YOU USE ABOUT $260,000 OF CURRENT-
YEAR MONEY, WE CAN, IN EFFECT, BUY DOWN THE GENERAL 
OBLIGATION MILLAGE RATES FOR NEXT FISCAL YEAR SO THAT THEY 
WON'T HAVE TO BE INCREASED, YOU WON'T SEE THAT SHOW UP ON 
THE TRIM NOTICE THAT WOULD GO OUT NEXT MONTH, AND YOU CAN 
USE CURRENT-YEAR DOLLARS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN RATHER THAN AS 
WE HAD PREVIOUSLY SHOWN ON THIS SCHEDULE, USE NEXT YEAR'S 
DOLLARS.
SO THE KEY IS WE STILL WILL BE HAVING A DEBT MILLAGE, BUT 
WE WOULD KEEP THE DEBT MILLAGE CONSTANT.
WE WOULDN'T INCREASE IT NEXT YEAR.
THAT'S SOMETHING YOU HAD REACTED TO.
IT WAS UNEXPECTED BECAUSE OF THE DECLINE IN THE TAX BASE.
BUT OUR SUGGESTION IS WE'LL DO A $260,000 CURRENT-YEAR 
SUBSIDY INTO THE GENERAL OBLIGATION BOND ACCOUNTS SO THAT 
THAT REVENUE ALONG WITH INTEREST EARNINGS NEXT YEAR AND THE 
DEBT MILLAGE LEVY AT THE CURRENT LEVEL WILL PROVIDE 
SUFFICIENT REVENUE TO COVER THE NEEDS FOR THOSE OUTSTANDING 
BONDS NEXT YEAR.
IT'S A WAY TO KEEP FROM HAVING A ONE-TIME INCREASE, AND 
AFTER THAT, AS THE TAX BASE STARTS GROWING AGAIN, WE WOULD 
ANTICIPATE THOSE RATES TO COME DOWN.
WHAT WE'RE SPECIFICALLY TRYING TO AVOID IS THAT PRIOR TO 
THIS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LOWERING OUR OPERATING MILLAGE -
- WHICH I SUSPECT MIGHT BE A PERMANENT UNLESS THE BOARD IN 
THE FUTURE VOTED TO INCREASE THAT OPERATING MILLAGE -- FOR 
WHAT MAY BE A ONE-TIME BUMP-UP IN THE DEBT MILLAGE, SO 
WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID THE BUMP-UP IN THE DEBT MILLAGE.
WE'LL CONTINUE TO CLARIFY THAT WE CAN DO THAT, BUT IT LOOKS 
LIKE IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE SOME CURRENT-YEAR DOLLARS, 
AND BASED ON THAT, WE FREED UP THE MONEY THAT AS RECENTLY 
AS LAST THURSDAY WE HAD INDICATED THAT WE WOULD NEED TO GET 
THROUGH A LOWER OPERATING MILLAGE COUNTYWIDE THAT WOULD BE 
A LOWER -- THAT HAD PLANNED TO BE A LOSS OF ABOUT 192,000, 
UNINCORPORATED.
WE HAD ANTICIPATED NEXT YEAR LOSING ABOUT 66,000.
SO WE'LL CONTINUE TO FINE-TUNE, GET CLARIFICATION ON ANY 
OUTSTANDING ISSUES ON THAT, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE WE CAN FREE 
UP NEXT YEAR ABOUT $260,000 --
>>PAT BEAN:  THIS YEAR.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  WE'LL FREE IT UP NEXT YEAR BY MAKING A 
PAYMENT THIS YEAR, AND YOU'LL BE ABLE TO AVOID HAVING THOSE 
DEBT MILLAGES THAT SHOW UP ON THE TRIM BILL, ON THE 
ULTIMATE TAX BILL FROM GOING UP FROM '08 TO '09.
>>KEN HAGAN:  ONE QUESTION, ERIC.
DOES THIS $260,000 COMPLY WITH THE DIRECTION THE BOARD GAVE 
WITH RESPECT TO A CUSHION?
I BELIEVE IT WAS COMMISSIONER FERLITA BROUGHT UP THE IDEA 
OF --
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  WE WOULD STILL ANTICIPATE DOING THE 
CUSHION.
THAT -- THE SENSITIVITY TO WHETHER THERE'S MORE -- YOU 
KNOW, WHAT'S -- WHAT PEOPLE DEFINE AS A TAX INCREASE, I'D 
STILL SUGGEST YOU GO WITH THE 50,000.
IT'S A VERY SMALL REDUCTION TO MILLAGE, BUT IT'S A WAY THAT 
WE DON'T INADVERTENTLY FIND THAT WE'VE GOTTEN ACCUSED OF A 
TAX INCREASE BECAUSE SOMEHOW WE GOT MORE MONEY THAN THE 
YEAR BEFORE.
DIFFERENT PEOPLE DEFINE --
>>KEN HAGAN:  THAT 50,000 IS IN ADDITION TO THIS 260?
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  YEAH.
I THINK WE WOULD KEEP THE 50,000 PER FUND THAT HAD BEEN 
DISCUSSED.
THAT'S JUST A SAFEGUARD, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S STILL 
IMPORTANT, BUT THE ONE THING WE CAN ACCOMPLISH -- 260,000 
ISN'T A LOT OF MONEY, BUT WE CAN AFFORD YOU HAVING TWO 
MILLAGE RATES THAT ARE ITEMIZED ON TRIM NOTICES GOING UP BY 
DOING THIS.
WE'LL CONTINUE -- THE CLERK'S OFFICE HASN'T HEARD ABOUT 
THIS BEFORE THIS, SO WE'LL MAKE SURE THEY'RE COMFORTABLE BY 
THURSDAY, BUT WE'VE HAD BOND COUNSEL WORKING LITERALLY 
TODAY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE AND WITH THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE 
AND DEBT MANAGEMENT, SO I THINK THAT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY 
FOR US.
A COUPLE OTHER THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE LAST TIME YOU 
SAW A SCHEDULE.
ONE IS THAT WE HAVE CONFIRMED WHERE THE SHERIFF'S OFFICES 
IS ACTUALLY MAKING CHANGES IN THEIR BUDGET.
WHAT YOU HAD HEARD WHEN YOU HEARD THE SHERIFF'S 
PRESENTATION AND WHAT WE ULTIMATELY LEARNED THROUGH CONTACT 
WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IS THAT THEY REVERSED HOW MANY 
DOLLARS WERE BEING SAVED IN WHICH FUND, SO WE'VE CONFIRMED 
THAT WE'LL SAVE $1.2 MILLION OUT OF THEIR REVISED BUDGET 
COUNTYWIDE AND 1.1 MILLION UNINCORPORATED.
THE INITIAL PRESENTATION YOU HEARD HAD THOSE NUMBERS 
REVERSED, SO WE'VE CORRECTED THAT.
TWO OTHER THINGS TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE THAT ARE 
NEW.
ONE IS, AS YOU'VE READ IN THE PAPER, I'M SURE, THE STATE IS 
REQUIRING THE SCHOOL BOARD TO RAISE ITS REQUIRED LOCAL 
EFFORT MILLAGE RATE.
THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S UP FOR DEBATE WITH THE REFERENDUM IN 
NOVEMBER AS TO WHETHER WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO HAVE THAT.
BUT BECAUSE OF THE INCREASE IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT MILLAGE 
RATE AND THE FACT THAT STATE LAW REQUIRES THE COUNTY 
GOVERNMENT TO PAY THE TAX COLLECTOR COMMISSION FOR SCHOOL 
DISTRICTS, WE ACTUALLY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY $122,000 -- 
$122,000 MORE IN COMMISSIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SCHOOL BOARD 
MILLAGE INCREASE.
AND THEN FINALLY, THE PROPERTY APPRAISER HAS FILED A FORMAL 
BUDGET REQUEST WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
IT'S LOWER THAN THAT WE HAD ANTICIPATED.
WE HAD TO ANTICIPATE THEIR BUDGET UNTIL THEY FILED A FORMAL 
REQUEST WITH THE STATE, AND SO AS YOU'LL SEE AT THE BOTTOM 
OF THE SCHEDULE WE'VE PICKED UP $306,000 IN COUNTYWIDE 
REVENUE OR IN REDUCED COST; 125-, ALMOST 126,000 
UNINCORPORATED; AND 29,000 IN THE LIBRARY DISTRICT, SO WITH 
ALL OF THESE ADJUSTMENTS AND WITH MAKING, AS I SAID, THAT 
$260,000 PAYMENT FOR DEBT THIS YEAR, NOT NEXT, WE HAVE A 
BALANCE CURRENTLY OF JUST OVER $4 MILLION COUNTYWIDE, 
$962,000 UNINCORPORATED, AND $74,000 IN THE LIBRARY 
DISTRICT, SO THAT'S THE STATUS.
AS WE'VE INDICATED PREVIOUSLY, WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT 
FINE-TUNING, BUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS MAKING 
SURE GOING INTO THURSDAY'S WORKSHOP THAT YOU HAD AN UPDATED 
ESTIMATE OF RECURRING REVENUE AS YOU DEAL WITH THE VARIOUS 
ITEMS THAT YOU'VE FLAGGED.
AND I'D BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
>>KEN HAGAN:  ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
OKAY.
PLEASE CONTINUE.
>>PAT BEAN:  OKAY.
THE NEXT ITEM WOULD BE A PRESENTATION FROM PGM.
PETER ALUOTTO IS HERE, AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH DEPARTMENT 
WORKLOAD AND HIS BUDGET IMPLICATIONS.
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.
[INAUDIBLE]
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
>>PAT BEAN:  CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  HELLO.
MUCH BETTER.
PETER ALUOTTO, PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.
WE WERE ASKED TO COME HERE TODAY PREPARED TO MAKE 
ADDITIONAL CUTS IN OUR BUDGET, AND WE HAVE.
YOU-ALL RECEIVED A HANDOUT, WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE IN FRONT 
OF YOU.
MANY OF YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE.
PAGE 1 INDICATES WHAT OUR ORIGINAL BUDGET PROPOSAL WAS, 
INDICATING 16 POSITIONS, NINE FILLED, SEVEN VACANT, FOR A 
TOTAL OF $1.23 MILLION.
PAGE 2 SHOWS OUR ADDITIONAL OFFERING TODAY OF ADDITIONAL 
FIVE POSITIONS TOTALING $427,898.
ALL OF THOSE POSITIONS ARE FILLED.
AS I HAVE INDICATED IN THE PAST, IT'S A TRUISM THAT THE 
DEPARTMENT WILL LIVE WITH WHATEVER BUDGET IS RECEIVES.
THE QUESTION IS CAN YOU-ALL LIVE WITH THE BUDGET THAT WE 
RECEIVE?
IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'D JUST LIKE TO TAKE A MINUTE OR TWO TO 
EXPLAIN WHAT THE IMPACT OF THESE ADDITIONAL CUTS SHOULD YOU 
GO IN THAT DIRECTION WILL MEAN, AND WE OFFER THESE NOT 
NECESSARILY AS A PACKAGE, BUT, YOU KNOW, AS INDIVIDUALS FOR 
AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE TOLERANCE AS YOU HAVE FOR CUTS.
ONE OTHER WORD BEFORE I GET INTO THE IMPLICATIONS AND THAT 
IS HOW WE ARRIVED AT THIS DECISION -- THIS PACKAGE.
THIS REPRESENTS THE BALANCE OF DECISION UNIT 6.
WE DID NOT CHERRY-PICK ANY POSITIONS, WE DIDN'T GO INTO 
FOUR AND FIVE AND LOOK FOR PEOPLE, WE JUST WENT RIGHT UP 
THE LADDER BECAUSE WE HAD CONFIDENCE THAT THE BUDGET THAT 
WE ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED AND THE ORIGINAL DECISION UNITS WAS 
GROUNDED IN -- YOU KNOW, IN REALITY, AND WE'VE BASICALLY 
STUCK WITH IT.
WE HAVE A PRINCIPAL PLANNER.
THE PRINCIPAL PLANNER, SENIOR PLANNER, COMMUNITY PLANNER II 
POSITIONS ARE ALL COMING OUT OF OUR ZONING COUNSELING 
CENTER.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ANSWER THE PHONES, APPROXIMATELY 
1500 CALLS A MONTH, HANDLE THE WALK-INS AT ABOUT 500 A 
MONTH, AND WE ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH 
THEIR PROPERTY, WHAT ZONING THEY NEED TO DO THE USES THAT 
THEY WANT ON THEIR PROPERTY, AND IT SHOWS YOU THERE IN 
INCREMENTAL FASHION WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE MAKE 
THESE CUTS.
IN THE CASE OF THE PRINCIPAL PLANNER, 72 WALK-INS AND 214 
PHONE CALLS A MONTH WILL BE TRANSFERRED TO -- YOU KNOW, TO 
OTHER PEOPLE.
IF YOU CUT THE SENIOR PLANNER, 143 WALK-INS AT 429 A MONTH, 
THOSE ROLL OVER TO THE NEXT PERSON, TOTALING 250 WALK-INS 
AND 750 CALLS A MONTH, AND WHEN WE -- IF WE ELIMINATE THE 
THIRD, THE FUNCTIONS REALLY NO LONGER MAKES ANY SENSE 
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN RETURN ALL THOSE PHONE CALLS OR HANDLE 
ALL THOSE WALK-INS AT ONCE.
AND AS A RESULT, THE PHONE WILL STILL RING, I ASSURE YOU, 
THE CITIZENS WILL STILL COME IN FOR COUNSELING, ONLY THEY 
WILL HAVE TO BE ABSORBED BY OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE DUTIES 
INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, SCHEDULING ZONINGS AND VARIANCES AND 
SPECIAL USES, WRITING REPORTS, SCHEDULING AND ADVERTISING -
- ADVERTISING MEETINGS.
FURTHER DOWN THE LIST WE HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST 
II.
THIS IS OUR SOLE BIOLOGIST ON STAFF WHOSE FUNCTION IS TO 
ANALYZE UPLAND HABITAT AND WILDLIFE HABITAT.
OUR ORDINANCES REQUIRE 25% PRESERVATION.
IF WE ELIMINATE THAT POSITION, THAT FUNCTION WILL BE 
ABSORBED BY AN URBAN FORESTER, WHO, ALTHOUGH NOT 
SPECIFICALLY TRAINED IN THAT FIELD, WOULD TAKE UP THE 
SLACK.
IT MIGHT TAKE A LITTLE LONGER TO DO.
AND IN THOSE CASES WHERE THEY COULDN'T -- IF THEY COULDN'T 
GET THAT JOB DONE, WE WOULD DEFER TO STATE AND FEDERAL 
AGENCIES LIKE FISH AND WILDLIFE AND DEP AND THOSE FOLKS.
FINALLY, WE HAVE AN OFFICE ASSISTANT ON THERE, WHICH IS A 
PROBATIONARY POSITION, WHICH WOULD GO FIRST UNDER ANY 
SCENARIO.
JUST ONE MORE BRIEF COMMENT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE, AND THAT 
IS THERE'S BEEN SOME TALK ABOUT MATCHING OUR STAFF LEVELS 
TO WORKLOAD.
I'M HAPPY TO REPORT THAT IN OUR BUILDING SERVICES DIVISION 
WE ARE RUNNING IN THE BLACK.
WHEN WE REVISED OUR FEE SCHEDULE, WE REVISED IT IN SUCH A 
MANNER THAT IF WE'RE NOT WORKING, WE'RE NOT GETTING PAID.
IF WE'RE NOT GETTING PAID, WE'RE RUNNING A DEFICIT, AND I 
CAN TELL YOU EVERYONE IS GETTING PAID, WORK IS GETTING 
DONE, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY MET OR EXCEEDED THE MARKET THERE 
WITH RESPECT TO WORKLOAD.
WE'VE ADDED SOME ADDITIONAL CHARTS IN YOUR PACKAGE TO SHOW 
COMPARABLE WORKLOADS IN OUR PLANNING AND ZONING BECAUSE 
SINCE THE FIRST YEAR IN 2006 MOST OF THE CUTS, 
APPROXIMATELY 70% OF THEM, CAME FROM THE BUILDING SERVICES 
DIVISION.
WELL, WE'VE EXHAUSTED ALL THOSE CUTS.
NOW WE'RE DOWN TO BASICALLY PLANNING AND ZONING TYPE CUTS, 
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE REZONING CASELOAD MAYBE HAS, YOU 
KNOW, DECLINED TO ABOUT 20 A MONTH, BUT ALL OF OUR LUHO 
CASES AND ADMINISTRATIVE CASES HAVE MAINTAINED AT AN 
AVERAGE OF ABOUT 80 A MONTH, AND WE'VE ALREADY REDUCED OUR 
PLANNING STAFF BY APPROXIMATELY 31% -- 31%, SO WE BELIEVE 
WE'RE THERE.
WE BELIEVE WE'VE MADE ALL THE CUTS WE CAN REASONABLY 
SUSTAIN.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER SHARPE.
>>MARK SHARPE:  WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A WEEK OR SO AGO, AND 
MY CONCERNS THEN REMAIN TODAY, WHICH IS I SUPPORT, IN FACT 
ENCOURAGE, US TO LOOK FOR WAYS TO MAKE REDUCTIONS AND TO 
ELIMINATE WHERE NECESSARY I HATE TO SAY POSITIONS WHEN 
THERE JUST ISN'T THE WORKLOAD.
MY CONCERN HERE, THOUGH, PETER IS THESE ADDITIONAL 
REDUCTIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON OUR 
ABILITY TO PROVIDE A SERVICE AND THAT IT'S YOUR 
RESPONSIBILITY, NOT MINE, TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE, AND THE 
CALLS ARE GOING TO COME IN AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO -- AND 
THEN I RECEIVE THE CALLS WHEN SOMEONE UPSTAIRS IS NOT ABLE 
TO TAKE THE CALL OR IT GOES TO A VOICE MESSAGING SYSTEM TO 
GET A CALL BACK LATER, AND SO MY SENSE IS THAT I WANT US TO 
MAKE THE REDUCTIONS WHICH WE HAVE TO MAKE TO MEET OUR 
BUDGET OBLIGATIONS, BUT I DON'T WANT TO JUST CUT FOR THE 
SAKE OF SAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ENOUGH, 
GO BACK AND CUT SOME MORE.
BASED ON WHAT?
IF IT'S BASED ON WORKLOAD, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.
IF IT'S BASED ON EVIDENCE WHICH SUGGESTS THAT WE ARE 
OVERSTAFFED, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.
IF IT'S JUST BASED ON -- AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT'S 
HAPPENED, BUT I'M SAYING IF IT'S JUST BASED ON, YOU KNOW, 
LOOK WE JUST NEED TO CUT EVERYWHERE EQUALLY SOME MORE AND 
THAT BEGINS TO AFFECT OUR ABILITY TO RESPOND TO THE 
COMMUNITY THAT'S GOING TO BE DEMANDING -- WHETHER -- AND I 
THINK A LOT OF THESE ARE GOING TO BE HOMEOWNERS THEMSELVES 
WANTING TO MAKE CHANGES, AND I GET THESE CALLS ALL THE TIME 
FROM FRUSTRATED HOMEOWNERS THAT SAY THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE 
RESPONSE THEY WANT, SO PERSONALLY, UNLESS I'M CONVINCED 
OTHERWISE, I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT ADDITIONAL REDUCTIONS 
UNLESS IT'S EVIDENCED BY THE FACTS, AND SO WHAT YOU'VE 
SUGGESTED TO ME SUGGESTS THE WORKLOAD'S GOING TO BE THERE, 
IT'S JUST GOING TO BE SHIFTED TO SOMEONE THAT HAS -- DO WE 
HAVE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE DOING NOTHING WAITING FOR 
ADDITIONAL WORKLOAD?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  NO, SIR.
>>MARK SHARPE:  I THINK THAT -- I APPRECIATE THE EXERCISE, 
BUT MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER BLAIR.
>>MARK SHARPE:  [INAUDIBLE]
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  WELL, I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH 
COMMISSIONER SHARPE.
THIS IS -- TO ME, THIS IS A MULTIPROFIT CENTER.
WE -- WE -- OBVIOUSLY, WE SAW THE DILEMMA THAT WE WERE IN 
WHEN AMENDMENT 1 PASSED, AND WE WANT TO BE AS EFFICIENT AS 
POSSIBLE -- THAT'S THE MAIN THING -- SO WE CAN RUN THE MOST 
EFFICIENT OPERATION POSSIBLE.
IF YOU REDUCE SERVICES AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THREE MONTHS 
MORE TO -- LET'S SAY TO GET A -- A JOB THAT'S ALREADY 
BEEN -- GONE THROUGH THE TESTS OF THE COMMUNITY AND THEY'RE 
MOST LIKELY TO -- I MEAN, THEY'LL BE READY TO BE BUILT OR 
START CONSTRUCTION AS SOON AS THE BOARD APPROVES IT -- THE 
STAFF AND THE BOARD APPROVES THE PROJECT.
WELL, THREE MONTHS IS EQUAL TO A LOT OF DOLLARS IN AD 
VALOREM TAXES, AND IT -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S 
TIMES WHERE WE'RE TAKING EVEN LONGER THAN THAT, AND IT 
COULD BE THE PETITIONER'S FAULT, AS WE'VE JUST RECENTLY 
GONE OVER, IT COULD BE A VARIETY OF REASONS, BUT AGAIN, I 
WANT TO -- I WANTED TO GET EVERYTHING FAST-TRACKED DURING 
THIS SLOW MARKET AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
I MEAN, WE WANT TO GET AS MANY PROJECTS OUT THE DOOR SO WE 
CAN GET PEOPLE WORKING.
OBVIOUSLY THE SLOWDOWN IN THE ECONOMY HAS BEEN MAINLY HIT 
BY THE HOUSING MARKET, AND THE COMMERCIAL MARKET LAGS 
BEHIND A LITTLE BIT, BUT WE'VE -- COMMERCIAL ESPECIALLY IS 
BENEFICIAL TO OUR COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE JOBS THAT IT 
PRODUCES BESIDES THE AD VALOREM TAXES AND REVENUES, SO I, 
AGAIN, AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER SHARPE, I AGREE WITH 
COMMISSIONER NORMAN, HIS STATEMENT THAT WE SHOULD BE IN 
LINE WITH THE WORKLOAD GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE WERE REAL 
HIGH AT ONE POINT, AND I BELIEVE WE MADE THAT ADJUSTMENT, 
AS YOU STATED EARLIER, TO BE IN LINE PRETTY MUCH WITH WHERE 
WE'RE AT TODAY.
THERE'S -- THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS RIGHT 
NOW, AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT US TO SEE, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M 
CUTTING BACK ON MY STAFF, WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING?
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE'VE GOT TO KEEP THOSE JOBS, AS MANY 
OF THEM AS WE POSSIBLY CAN ON THE STREETS AS QUICK AS WE 
POSSIBLY CAN TO HELP FOSTER THE ECONOMY THAT'S HURTING 
RIGHT NOW, SO I'LL YIELD TO MY COLLEAGUES.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER NORMAN.
>>JIM NORMAN:  WELL, THAT'S WHY I CALLED ON ERIC JOHNSON 
AND OUR FINANCE TEAM TO GIVE A LOOK AT WHAT IS THE 
APPROPRIATE NUMBER BECAUSE LET ME TELL YOU-ALL, YOU'RE 
SITTING HERE TODAY, AND IT'S GRAND TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, 
LET'S -- LET'S DON'T DO THAT, LET'S -- YOU KNOW, LET'S 
DON'T CUT, THOSE KIND OF THINGS, BUT SOONER OR LATER 
SOMEBODY ELSE IS GOING TO LOOK.
SOONER OR LATER, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO QUESTION THE KIND OF 
NUMBERS THAT ARE BEING PUT OUT BEFORE US.
WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW OF MATCHING THE MARKET, 
HAVING -- AND NOT JUST PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT BUT 
PLANNING COMMISSION, EPC MATCHING OUR MARKET THAT WE DON'T 
HAVE DEAD HOURS BEING PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS.
WE NEED TO HAVE THE APPROPRIATE STAFF THAT CAN HAVE A 
DELIVERABLE AND HIRE EVERYBODY BACK WHEN THE MARKET 
RECOVERS, BUT IF WE JUST TAKE WHAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY OVER 
AT THE DEPARTMENT SAYS, THEY'RE GOING TO PROTECT.
I EXPECT OUR FINANCE TEAM TO GIVE US THE RIGHT 
ACCOUNTABILITY NUMBERS, WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, 
BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T A LET'S JUST CUT, THIS IS A 
REALITY THAT OUR MARKET IS WAY, WAY OFF, AND IF WE CARRY 
THE SAME NUMBERS, IT'S COMMON SENSE, SO -- AND GOING BACK 
TO -- MR. ALUOTTO, I HAD TO GO AND I MET WITH THE ENGINEERS 
AND SO ON JUST LIKE THE ITEM I BROUGHT UP LAST WEEK ABOUT 
THE TRANSPORTATION PLAN AMENDMENTS.
I MEAN, WE COULDN'T DO THAT IN THE TIME PERIOD THAT IT'S 
BEEN ALLOCATED FOR, AND TO HAVE A MILLION-NINE SITTING 
THERE, I MEAN, WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE AND WHAT WE 
CAN PUT -- WHAT WE CAN ACTUALLY DO.
DON'T JUST CARRY MONEY, DON'T JUST -- I'M TELLING YOU, WE 
HAVE TO, AS A BOARD, BE RESPONSIBLE BECAUSE WHEN OUR BUDGET 
IS COMPLETE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START DISSECTING IT AND 
SAY WE DIDN'T DO OUR JOB IF WE DIDN'T.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER FERLITA.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I GUESS THIS IS ONE OF THE WONDERFUL DILEMMAS WE'RE PUT IN 
WHEN WE TRY TO RECONCILE THE BUDGET.
WE TALK ABOUT A REDUCTION IN DEVELOPMENT, AND SO OBVIOUSLY 
WE HAVE TO HAVE A REDUCTION IN OUR STAFF COMMENSURATE WITH 
THAT DECREASE, BUT IT'S PUTTING US IN A SITUATION WHERE IF 
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF TO ACCOMMODATE THE REDUCED 
AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT'S COMING THROUGH, THEN THE 
DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY SUFFERS BECAUSE THEY WANT US TO GET 
THESE PROJECTS THROUGH, AND OF COURSE, I THINK YOU'VE TOLD 
ME AND YOU'VE SAID TO EVERYBODY ELSE YOU CAN LIVE WITH 
WHATEVER WE DO.
IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT A FAT BUDGET IN TERMS 
OF STAFF, IT'S THAT WE ARE CHARGED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY 
OF TRYING TO GO SOMEPLACE IN THE MIDDLE.
I THINK I SAID THIS, AND, YOU KNOW, I -- I DO WANT TO 
APOLOGIZE IF IT WAS TAKEN INCORRECTLY.
I THINK WHEN MR. NORMAN AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THE 
REDUCTIONS THAT WE'RE SEEING IN DEVELOPMENT, I SAID, WELL, 
WE CAN'T AFFORD AT THIS TIME WHEN WE HAVE A STRUGGLING 
ECONOMY TO HAVE A LOT OF MAYTAG REPAIRMEN SITTING AROUND IN 
STAFF, AND I WAS TRYING TO BE CUTE, I WAS TRYING TO BE 
FUNNY, I WAS TRYING TO GET A POINT ACROSS THAT WE DON'T 
WANT PEOPLE WAITING FOR THE PHONE TO RING WHEN IT'S NOT 
RINGING, BUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THAT ANALOGY AND TOO MUCH 
STAFF IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT, AND THAT'S A 
LEAN-AND-MEAN STAFF IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME 
PEOPLE THERE TO RESPOND TO THE ISSUES THAT THE DEVELOPMENT 
COMMUNITY NEEDS AND NEEDS ADDRESSED RELATIVELY SOON.
IT'S BENEFICIAL FOR EVERYBODY.
THEY GET THEIR PRODUCT OUT IN THE MARKET AND WE REALIZE THE 
REVENUE.
THE CHALLENGE IS IF, AS MORE OR LESS MR. NORMAN SAID, WE 
NEED TO GET RID OF SOME STAFFERS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE 
AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT OR THE AMOUNT OF BUSINESS THAT WE DID 
BEFORE, THAT'S FINE, BUT THERE'S ALSO AN ASSOCIATED COST.
IF WE ELIMINATE TOO MUCH STAFF -- AND I KNOW I'M PREACHING 
TO THE CHOIR HERE, MR. ALUOTTO, BUT IF WE GET RID OF TOO 
MUCH STAFF, FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO RECOUP THAT STAFF 
WHEN YOU NEED IT AND WHEN THE ECONOMY HOPEFULLY RECOVERS, 
AND AT THE SAME TIME, I KNOW IN A SMALL WAY THAT IF YOU GET 
RID OF TRAINED STAFF, THERE IS A COST FACTOR IN RETRAINING 
THEM AND PUTTING THEM BACK INTO YOUR WORKFORCE, SO I THINK 
WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT I WOULD 
SUPPORT THE AMOUNT OF CUTS THAT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO LOOK AT 
YOURSELF TODAY.
I THINK WHAT I MIGHT DO IS PERHAPS -- AND LET ME JUST GIVE 
YOU AN EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS WILDLIFE 
BIOLOGIST.
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, HE'S THE ONE THAT TAKES CARE OF 
ALL THE COMP PLANS AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT UPLANDS HABITAT 
REVIEWS.
EPC CAN'T DO THAT, THEY DO WETLANDS.
SO THEN YOU SAID, WELL, WE CAN HAVE A FORESTER LOOK AT IT, 
HE KNOWS ABOUT TREES.
AND IF NOT, WE COULD ASK THE STATE TO HELP US.
WELL, PRETTY SOON -- AND I'M BEING FUNNY -- WE CAN HAVE -- 
BECAUSE HE MAY BE NOT BUSY THAT AFTERNOON, WE CAN HAVE AN 
ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR LOOKING AT IT AND SEE IF MAYBE HE 
THINKS THAT WE'RE TAKING CARE OF GOPHER TURTLES.
I MEAN, THEN IT BECOMES JUST A TRAIN WRECK.
SO I THINK WE'RE OKAY WHERE WE ARE.
YOU ALWAYS UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT WE GIVE YOU YOU HAVE THE 
RESPONSIBILITY OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR, AND THAT'S AN ONGOING 
PROCESS, BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT WE'RE BORDERING ON 
PERHAPS BEING TOO LOW IN WHAT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO CUT.
CUTTING FOR THE SAKE OF CUTTING IS NOT GOING TO GIVE OUR 
CUSTOMERS GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE, SO WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT 
BALANCE AS WE LOOK AT IT, AND MAYBE SO WE CAN HAVE ONE LAST 
LOOK AT THIS, I MIGHT SUGGEST THAT WE EITHER MODIFY OR FLAG 
THE FLAG THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.
LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.
MR. NORMAN WANTS OUR NUMBERS PEOPLE TO LOOK AT IT.
YOU'RE TALKING TO US FROM THE PRACTICAL STANDPOINT IN TERMS 
OF WHAT YOU CAN OFFER OUR CITIZENS BASED ON THE WORKLOAD 
AND THE STAFF THAT YOU HAVE.
PERHAPS MAYBE, MR. JOHNSON -- I JUST DIDN'T -- NO, NO, IT'S 
NO PROBLEM, BUT I -- I'M KIND OF THROWING THIS AT YOU TOO, 
KIND OF GIVING MY OPINION AND MR. SHARPE'S INPUT AND THEN 
MR. NORMAN'S INPUT.
WHAT ABOUT IF WE LOOKED AT MODIFYING THAT FLAG BETWEEN NOW 
AND THURSDAY, YOU COME BACK AND TELL US WHAT YOU THINK IN 
TERMS OF JUSTIFYING WHAT MR. ALUOTTO IS THINKING, AND THEN 
OBVIOUSLY WE'LL BE THE ONES THAT MAKE THE FINAL DECISION.
IN OTHER WORDS, JUST BECAUSE WE HAD A FIGURE IN MIND -- CAN 
YOU DO THAT BY THURSDAY?
>>PAT BEAN:  WHAT WE WERE SITTING OVER HERE TALKING ABOUT 
IS FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD COMMISSIONER NORMAN TO SAY A 
MOMENT AGO, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MONEY FOR ONE OF THE 
STUDIES THAT WAS INCORPORATED AND THAT YOU ASSUMED -- I 
KNOW.
THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK AND 
TAKE A LOOK AS PART OF OUR CONTINUING TO LOOK AT SOME OF 
THOSE DOLLARS THAT PERHAPS THOSE DOLLARS COME OUT.
THAT LOWERS THE BUDGET AND IT REDUCES A WORKLOAD TO AN 
EXTENT BECAUSE EVEN IF WE HIRED A CONSULTANT, SOMEBODY ON 
THE STAFF HAS GOT TO BE SHEPHERDING AND MONITORING ALL 
THOSE STUDIES.
SOME OF THOSE STUDIES COULD BE DELAYED.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE DONE THIS YEAR, IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
THAT'S WHAT ERIC WAS JUST CONFIRMING.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  OKAY.
BUT WHAT I DON'T WANT IS THAT TO BE USED AS A BASIS -- IF 
I'M UNDERSTANDING YOU CORRECTLY, PAT -- REMOVING OR 
DELAYING OR POSTPONING THOSE STUDIES TO SAY, WELL, THEN, 
BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW AND IN 
PART AT LEAST THAT'S GOING TO TAKE UP SOME OF THE WORK 
HOURS FROM HIS STAFF THAT THAT BE THE TOTAL REASON WHY WE 
SHOULD IGNORE EXACTLY WHAT HE'S SAYING.
I WANT KIND OF A COMPROMISE SOMEPLACE.
AM I FOLLOWING YOU CORRECTLY?
>>PAT BEAN:  YES, I THINK YOU'RE FOLLOWING ME.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  THAT MIGHT CUT SOME OF THE WORKLOAD, THAT 
MIGHT CUT SOME OF THE DOLLARS WE NEED TO SPEND ON THOSE 
STUDIES, BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO COME BACK AND SAY, NOW, 
WE'VE DELAYED THOSE STUDIES, SO SORRY, PETER, WE PROBABLY 
SHOULDN'T CONSIDER ANY OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS.
>>PAT BEAN:  NO, NO, I WASN'T SAYING THAT.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  OKAY.
SO THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF THE COMPONENT THAT MIGHT LOOK 
AT SOME OF THE DOLLARS THAT WE'RE GOING TO SAVE, AND THAT 
WILL GIVE US A MORE REALISTIC BASIS THURSDAY TO DECIDE 
WHETHER WE WANT TO AGREE WITH HIM IN PART OR IN ALL OR NOT 
AT ALL.
>>PAT BEAN:  WELL, AND I HAVEN'T HAD THAT DISCUSSION 
DIRECTLY WITH PETER.
I KNOW THAT ERIC HAS HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH PETER AND 
MARK FROM HIS STAFF WHO PREPARED THE MATERIALS FOR YOU 
TODAY, BUT I THINK WE CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AND WE CAN 
COME BACK ON THURSDAY AND GIVE YOU SOME MORE INFORMATION.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  OKAY.
AND JUST IN CLOSING, NOT TO BELABOR THIS -- IT'S LIKE -- 
AND I UNDERSTAND AGAIN WHAT MR. NORMAN IS SAYING.
HE'S THE DEPARTMENT HEAD.
OF COURSE HE'S GOING TO PROTECT HIS STAFF, AS HE SHOULD, AS 
WE SHOULD ALL PROTECT OUR STAFFS BECAUSE THEY MAKE US AS 
GOOD AS WE CAN BE IN OUR POSITIONS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, 
ULTIMATELY HE DOESN'T SUFFER.
HE'S GOING TO GIVE US WHAT HE CAN GIVE US BASED ON THE 
STAFF, SO THAT'S THE BALANCE WE HAVE TO DETERMINE.
AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT IMPACT THE SERVICE WE GIVE THE 
CONSUMERS, NOT WHAT WE'RE HELPING MR. ALUOTTO WITH.
NO OFFENSE, MR. ALUOTTO.
I'LL JUST LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT OTHER INFORMATION YOU 
GIVE US THURSDAY.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER BLAIR.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  WELL, I THINK WE CAN ANSWER BOTH 
COMMISSIONER SHARPE'S COMMENTS AND COMMISSIONER NORMAN'S 
COMMENTS BY GOING BACK TO THE EXTENSIVE AUDIT THAT WE DID 
AND GETTING OUR AUDITORS -- JIM BARNES WITH PETER BECAUSE 
THEY'VE GONE THROUGH THE WHOLE THING, AND THAT WAY RATHER 
THAN US SITTING UP HERE GUESSING AND POKING AROUND, WE'RE 
GOING TO GET EXACT -- EXACT NUMBERS FROM THE AUDITOR, AND 
ERIC CAN SIT IN HOWEVER -- HOWEVER YOU GUYS DECIDE TO DO 
THAT, BUT I THINK THAT HE DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE A 
COMPONENT OF THE SOLUTION BECAUSE HE'S -- JIM BARNES AND 
HIS STAFF HAVE GONE THROUGH THAT VERY EXTENSIVE AUDIT WHICH 
WOULD YIELD THE ANSWERS, I'M SURE, BETWEEN THE THREE OF 
YOU.
I MEAN, WHAT -- WHAT BETTER WAY COULD YOU -- HOW BETTER 
COULD YOU SOLVE THAT?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  I DEFER TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ON 
THAT ONE.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  I MEAN AND THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, OF 
COURSE.
WHEN I SAY YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU'RE ALL UNDER PAT BEAN, AND WE 
HAVE OUR SIDE AND YOU HAVE YOUR SIDE.
WE'RE ONLY GIVEN POLICY, SO I'M JUST LOOKING FOR --
>>PAT BEAN:  WE'LL BE HAPPY TO INCLUDE JIM BARNES IN OUR 
DISCUSSION.
I REALLY THINK THAT PETER HAS DONE VERY GOOD WORK.
I THINK MARK HELPING HIM -- MARK KARET SITTING RIGHT OUT 
THERE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB, PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST JOBS 
I'VE SEEN OF ANALYZING WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE DEPARTMENT 
AND PUTTING IT TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT IT'S VERY EASY TO 
REVIEW, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THERE WERE ANY DECISIONS 
MADE THAT TOOK OUT THE STUDIES OR SOME OF THE STUDIES.
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  CORRECT.
>>PAT BEAN:  AND I THINK THAT'S A PLACE THAT WE DEFINITELY 
SHOULD LOOK BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT -- I UNDERSTAND 
ACCORDING TO ERIC THAT THOSE ARE DISCRETIONARY AT THIS 
POINT, AT LEAST SOME OF THEM, AND THOSE THAT ARE WE CAN 
POSTPONE THOSE, AND THAT WAY WE CAN GO AHEAD, TAKE THE 
POSITIONS THAT HE'S RECOMMENDED HERE, AND RELIEVE SOME OF 
THE OTHER WORKLOAD THAT'S NOT NECESSARY, AND WE'LL BE 
RESPONDING THEN TO THE OTHER NEEDS OF PEOPLE WALKING IN THE 
DOOR --
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  WELL, OKAY.
>>PAT BEAN:  -- THROUGH THE YEAR.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  WHILE I HAD THE FLOOR THERE, I JUST -- I 
HEARD -- JUST WHEN I WAS COMING BACK HERE, I WAS LISTENING 
TO TALK RADIO, AND TAMPA AND THE BAY AREA HAS GONE FROM 
BEST PLACES TO DO BUSINESS FROM SIXTH LAST YEAR TO 250th, 
SO THAT'S -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S FROM DIFFICULTY IN 
PERMITTING, TAXES, LOCATIONAL AVAILABILITY OR WHAT IT MIGHT 
BE, BUT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE CITIES, THE 
MUNICIPALITIES, OF COURSE, AND THE BAY AREA, BUT I DON'T 
WANT TO FALL INTO -- I WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE 
SURE THAT WE'RE FOSTERING GOOD BUSINESS, SO --
>>PAT BEAN:  AND WE AGREE TOTALLY WITH THAT.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER SHARPE.
>>MARK SHARPE:  PETER, I'M GOING THROUGH ALL YOUR MATERIAL.
YOU'RE NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE NOT MAKE -- I MEAN THAT WE 
NOT MAKE REDUCTIONS, ARE YOU?
WE'RE MAKING REDUCTIONS, ARE WE NOT, IN YOUR DEPARTMENT?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  YES.
WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 1.2 MILLION ON THE TABLE TODAY.
>>MARK SHARPE:  THERE'S BEEN A 38% REDUCTION IN PERSONNEL 
SINCE WHEN?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  2006.
>>MARK SHARPE:  AND HAS THAT KIND OF TRACKED WORKLOAD?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  YES, IT DOES.
>>MARK SHARPE:  AND MY UNDERSTANDING FROM OUR PRESENTATION 
WAS THAT -- AND YOU PRESENTED IT HERE AGAIN BRIEFLY -- 
THERE IS A -- YOU HAD A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CALLS THAT WERE 
COMING IN THAT INDIVIDUALS WERE HAVING TO TAKE, AND IF YOU 
REMOVE THOSE PEOPLE, THE CALLS ARE GOING TO GO TO SOMEONE 
ELSE?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  CORRECT.
>>MARK SHARPE:  SEE, THAT'S THE POINT.
I GET THE LETTERS, I SEE SOMETIMES WE HAVE THESE, YOU KNOW, 
INDIVIDUALS THAT WILL COME OUT WITH THESE PRESENTATIONS IN 
WHICH -- IN VERY SIMPLE TERMS, THIS DEPARTMENT SPENDS THIS 
MUCH MONEY AND THERE WAS THIS MUCH ACTIVITY AND THEN YOU 
KIND OF COME UP WITH AN EQUATION WHICH SHOWS THAT SOMEHOW 
THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY BEING WASTED OR, YOU KNOW, THERE'S -
- THE ACTIVITY OUT IN THE BUSINESS WORLD DOES NOT 
ACCURATELY REFLECT THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT YOU HAVE, 
BUT WHEN WE GET DOWN TO THE ACTUAL FUNCTIONING OF A 
DEPARTMENT, I WOULD RATHER MAKE SURE THAT THE DEPARTMENT 
FUNCTIONS PROBABLY THAN TRY TO RESPOND TO A LETTER TO THE 
EDITOR OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, AND SO IF WE HAVE A 
SITUATION HERE WHERE WE HAVE ACTUAL TANGIBLE NUMBERS OF 
CALLS COMING IN AND AN ACTUAL PERSON WHO'S GOING TO RECEIVE 
THOSE CALLS AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT PERSON OUT OF THE 
MIX, SOMEONE'S GOING TO GET THOSE PHONE CALLS, AND IT'S 
GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO I WOULD IMAGINE IS ALREADY 
RECEIVING CALLS OR HAS A WORKLOAD THEMSELVES.
THAT'S MY CONCERN.
WE'RE GOING TO ADD ON TO THEM AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN, AND 
THEN, BRIAN, THOSE NUMBERS YOU JUST REFLECTED WHERE WE'RE -
- WHATEVER RANKING WE RECEIVED, JUST BY A FACTOR OF TEN 
IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY, I 
CALL -- I WON'T SAY WHICH DEPARTMENT, BUT THERE ARE 
DEPARTMENTS -- I LIVE IN THE CITY.
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE SHOTS AT THE CITY, BUT THERE ARE 
CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS WHEN I CALL I KNOW I'M GOING TO GET A 
MACHINE, I WILL NOT GET A PERSON.
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>MARK SHARPE:  AND IT JUST INFURIATES ME TRYING TO GET A 
RESPONSE.
I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO US, AND I ALSO THINK, 
THOUGH, THAT THIS IS AN INTERESTING ECONOMY.
YES, THERE'S AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN, PEOPLE AREN'T BUYING 
HOMES LIKE THEY USED TO, BUT THEY ARE REFURBISHING THE ONES 
THEY HAVE.
IS THAT NOT TRUE?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  THAT'S TRUE.
>>MARK SHARPE:  DO YOU DEAL WITH REFURBISHED HOMES?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  WELL, YES, WE DO, BUT MOSTLY THAT'S IN 
OUR BUILDING SERVICES DIVISION.
WHEN WE PUT THIS BUDGET TOGETHER, AS MOST DEPARTMENTS DO, 
WE START WITH THOSE THINGS THAT ARE EITHER CONSTITUTIONALLY 
OR STATE LAW OR COUNTY ORDINANCE MANDATED, AND WE BUILD UP 
FROM THAT.
AND OUR COUNSELING CENTER IS NOT REQUIRED BY ANY LAW, IT'S 
NOT REQUIRED BY ANY ORDINANCE, AND THAT'S WHY IT APPEARS 
WAY DOWN THE LIST OF -- LIST OF PRIORITIES.
AS A DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR, I DID NOT WANT TO PROPOSE CUTS IN 
ANY OF THE PRODUCTION LINE FUNCTIONS THAT WE DO, ANYTHING 
THAT LEADS TO A PERMIT, LEADS TO AN APPROVAL, LEADS TO A 
SITE PLAN.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS -- LIKE COMMISSIONER BLAIR WAS SAYING, 
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT LEAD TO PROJECTS ON THE GROUND, 
SO GIVEN THE CHOICE --
>>MARK SHARPE:  RIGHT.
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  -- WE HAD TO CUT THE THING THAT ALTHOUGH 
IT'S NOT MANDATED, IT'S EXTREMELY POPULAR BECAUSE THESE ARE 
NOT DEVELOPERS CALLING IN ABOUT THEIR ZONING.
>>MARK SHARPE:  PEOPLE.
THEY'RE CITIZENS, HOMEOWNERS?
>>PETER ALUOTTO:  CORRECT.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER NORMAN.
>>JIM NORMAN:  I'LL JUST SAY I'M LIVING -- I MUST BE LIVING 
IN A DIFFERENT FINANCIAL MARKET THAN EVERYBODY ELSE IS 
BECAUSE WHAT I'M SEEING -- AND LET ME GO BACK TO SAY TO 
YOU-ALL -- I SAID THIS TO MR. HUNTER AND I SAID THIS TO DR. 
GARRITY, BUT IF THE NUMBERS -- IF YOU'RE STANDING BEFORE US 
AND IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL, YOU KNOW, OPINION THE NUMBERS ARE 
RIGHT, THIS IS WHERE WE ARE, I WANT ANOTHER CHECK, BUT IN 
MY OPINION, THE DEVELOPERS THAT WE ALL WERE INTERFACING 
WITH THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS, A LOT OF THEM ARE GONE, 
THEY'RE OUT OF BUSINESS.
THE MARKET THAT WE HAD THAT WERE COMING IN AND MAKING 
CALLS, THEY'RE GONE.
BANKS ARE TAKING BACK THINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
REFURBISHING, HOME DEPOT AND LOWE'S ARE OFF TEN POINTS IN 
THE LAST YEAR.
PICK UP YOUR FINANCIAL PAGE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE MUST NOT BE GOING TO HOME DEPOT AND LOWE'S.
GAS PRICES ARE DRIVING EVERYBODY JUST ABSOLUTELY CRAZY.
I MEAN, THE ACTIVITY'S NOT THERE, AND UNLESS -- UNLESS I'M 
JUST REALLY WRONG, THREE TO FIVE YEARS BEFORE THERE'S A 
REAL RECOVERY, AND THE HOUSING MARKET WILL BE LAST BECAUSE 
THERE'S SO MUCH INVENTORY OUT THERE.
WE NEED TO MIRROR WHAT OUR CUSTOMER ACTIVITY IS.
IF YOU-ALL ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN 
HARPING ON, AND I WOULD EXPECT PROFESSIONALS OUT THERE TO 
LOOK AT US IF WE'RE BLOATED, AND THEY'RE GOING TO START 
SAYING SO.
AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY OF PRESENTING A BUDGET THAT'S 
RIGHT, AND I'M SAYING I BELIEVE OUR FINANCIAL TEAM NEEDS TO 
ALSO PUT THAT STAMP ON IT THAT IT'S RIGHT, AND THAT'S ALL 
THAT I'M HARPING ON, BUT I WILL TELL YOU WHEN -- WHEN BANKS 
ARE TAKING BACK SO MUCH STUFF AND PEOPLE CAN'T GET LOANS 
ANYMORE AND -- YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS ABOUT ALL THESE PHONE 
CALLS AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF COMING BACK AND ALL THAT, 
I CAN'T SEE IT.
I'M IN A DIFFERENT MARKET, FOLKS.
>>KEN HAGAN:  OKAY.
WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, BUT PAT, JUST BRING US 
BACK THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT WE CAN CONSIDER.
I KNOW IT'S ALREADY BEEN FLAGGED, BUT WE MAY WANT TO, YOU 
KNOW, CONSIDER A COMPROMISE OR SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.
>>PAT BEAN:  WE'LL DO IT.
>>KEN HAGAN:  THANK YOU.
>>PAT BEAN:  THE NEXT ITEM IS A PRESENTATION BY MARK 
THORNTON FROM PARKS AND RECREATION.
THIS IS COMING BACK TO YOU AFTER YOUR LAST MEETING.
I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT THE PRESENTATION IS PRETTY CRISP 
AND DIRECTLY TO THE POINT.
I'M GOING TO LET MARK WALK YOU THROUGH IT, BUT BOTTOM LINE 
IS YOU CAN ESSENTIALLY ACHIEVE WHAT I THINK EVERYBODY ON 
THE BOARD IS LOOKING FOR, WHICH IS TO MAINTAIN THE 
AFTERSCHOOL AND SUMMER PROGRAM, TO EVEN ALLOW FOR SOME 
EXPANSION WITH THE PROVISION THAT YOU AGREE TO THE FEE 
SCHEDULE THAT'S DISCUSSED IN HERE, AND IT IS A SCHEDULE 
THAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED VERY SERIOUSLY.
IT IS ONE THAT IS VERY REASONABLE AS COMPARED TO WHAT 
PEOPLE FIND IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
ONE PERSON SAID THAT FOR SUMMER CAMP THEY HAD PAID A HUGE 
NUMBER FOR A WEEK, LIKE $200 OR SOMETHING.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $5, $10, $15 FOR THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY, 
SO I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO LISTEN TO MARK VERY 
QUICKLY.
HE'S NOT GOING TO GO INTO A LOT OF DETAIL, BUT THAT'S THE 
BOTTOM LINE.
YOU CAN ACHIEVE EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE IF YOU'LL 
AGREE TO THESE RATES, AND I THINK THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH 
WHAT YOU HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC WHEN THEY WERE HERE DURING 
THE PUBLIC HEARINGS TALKING TO YOU ABOUT THIS PROGRAM.
>>KEN HAGAN:  AND MARK, PLEASE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT 
WE JUST RECEIVED THIS, I DON'T KNOW, A LITTLE BIT AFTER 
1:00, SO TRY AND BE AS CLEAR AND SUCCINCT AS POSSIBLE.
THANK YOU.
>>MARK THORNTON:  AND I APPRECIATE ALLOWING US TO -- WELL, 
WE GOT IT TO YOU VERY LATE TODAY BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN WORKING 
ON THIS SINCE THURSDAY.
ANYWAY, MARK THORNTON, DIRECTOR OF PARKS, RECREATION, AND 
CONSERVATION.
THE PACKAGE OF INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU, WHAT 
WE TRIED TO DO, WE HAD LOOKED AT ORIGINALLY FOUR OR FIVE 
OPTIONS SO THAT YOU COULD KIND OF SEE OUR WHOLE THOUGHT 
PROCESS, BUT AS WE GOT INTO IT FURTHER AND WHERE WE -- WE 
REALLY SAW THAT WHAT WE COULD ACHIEVE WITH SOME VERY SIMPLE 
OPTIONS TO LOOK AT, WE NARROWED DOWN THE NUMBER.
THE PAGE 1 THERE REALLY IS JUST A NARRATIVE OF OUR CURRENT 
PROGRAM.
OUR OUT-OF-SCHOOL-TIME PROGRAM IS CONSISTING OF AFTERSCHOOL 
PROGRAM, WHICH IS 40 WEEKS, AND OUR SUMMER PROGRAM, WHICH 
IS NINE WEEKS.
THE SUMMER PROGRAM, OF COURSE, IS ALL DAY.
THE AFTERSCHOOL IS ABOUT 3.5 TO FOUR HOURS AFTER SCHOOL, 
UNTIL ABOUT 6:00 OR 6:30.
WE CURRENTLY ENROLL SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 5600 AND 6,000 KIDS 
IN THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM.
WE HAVE ABOUT 2700 ON THE WAITING LIST.
BASED ON OUR CURRENT BUDGET, WE SPEND ABOUT $42.80 PER 
CHILD PER WEEK.
AND THAT TOTALS UP TO $9,600,000 OR SO IN OUR BUDGET, WHICH 
IS STRICTLY THE AFTERSCHOOL COST.
SUMMER PROGRAM, NINE WEEKS.
THERE IS A $50 REGISTRATION FEE IN THAT, AND I DIDN'T 
MENTION THE $50 OPTIONAL FEE FOR THE AFTERSCHOOL, WHICH IS 
ONLY FOR THE CAMP DAYS, SO FORGIVE ME ON THAT.
THAT'S FOR THE IN-SERVICE DAYS WHEN THE KIDS ARE OUT OF 
SCHOOL ALL DAY.
THE SUMMER PROGRAM IS -- IS A $50 FEE FOR THE ENTIRE 
SUMMER, AND THAT CONSISTS OF AROUND 8300 KIDS.
THE COST PER WEEK IS $78.53 FOR THE NINE-WEEK SESSION AND A 
TOTAL BUDGET OF $5.8 MILLION.
AND THAT'S GENERALLY OUR PROGRAM IN A NUTSHELL AS IT IS 
TODAY.
THERE WERE CUTS THAT WERE RECOMMENDED IN THE BUDGET THAT 
YOU ASKED US TO LOOK AT RESTORING.
WE -- WE INITIALLY LOOKED AT TRYING TO DO THOSE IN 
INCREMENTS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE PROBABLY HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING 
WITH THE MOST IS ANYTHING THAT WE DO THIS YEAR TO RESTORE 
ONLY THIS NEXT COMING YEAR'S BUDGET CUTS, WE'LL BE BACK 
BEFORE YOU WITHIN A YEAR, AS COSTS GO UP WITH THE SAME 
PROBLEMS YEAR AFTER YEAR, SO WE WANTED TO POSSIBLY LOOK AT 
BUYING SOME TIME FOR TWO TO THREE YEARS, LOOKING AT A FEE 
THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO POSSIBLY EXPAND THE PROGRAM IN 
VARIOUS WAYS, AS YOU REQUESTED US TO LOOK AT, BUT ALSO THAT 
WE WOULDN'T BE BACK BEFORE YOU NEXT YEAR, THE YEAR AFTER, 
THE YEAR AFTER THAT.
IF YOU LOOK AT OPTION 1 -- AND -- AND THESE ARE -- THERE'S 
ACTUALLY TWO OPTIONS.
OPTION NUMBER 3 IS THE EXPANSION ISSUE.
BUT I WANT TO COVER IN MAYBE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL OPTION 1  
THAN THE OTHERS.
OPTION 1 IS TO ESTABLISH A FEE-BASED AFTERSCHOOL AND SUMMER 
PROGRAM.
THE FEES THAT WE RECOMMEND ARE LISTED IN ATTACHMENT 1, BUT 
BRIEFLY, WE'RE RECOMMENDING A $5- TO $20-PER-WEEK PER CHILD 
AFTERSCHOOL AND A $5- TO $30-PER-WEEK FOR THE SUMMER 
PROGRAM, AND AGAIN, THAT FIVE TO 25 TO 30 IS A SLIDING 
SCALE BASED ON INCOME.
THE REVENUE THAT GENERATES THAT WILL ALLOW US TO RESTORE 
ALL THE CUTS THAT WERE MADE REGARDING THE SUMMER 
TEMPORARIES AND THE SUMMER ENHANCEMENT PROGRAMS, AS WELL AS 
ALLOWING US TO RETAIN THE FULL-TIME STAFF.
AGAIN, WE HAD 41 POSITIONS THAT WERE TO GO TO PART-TIME.
16 OF THOSE POSITIONS, DEPENDING ON THE DAY -- IT MIGHT 
HAVE BEEN 16 YESTERDAY, MAYBE 17 TODAY, BUT THOSE -- SOME 
OF THOSE POSITIONS ARE VACANT, BUT THE 25 OR SO THAT ARE 
FULL WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE LEAVE THOSE FILLED SO WE'RE 
NOT AFFECTING ANY POSITIONS.
COMMISSIONER HAGAN, THAT ADDRESSES SOME OF THE ISSUES ABOUT 
THE BUMPING ISSUES.
IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH THE POSITIONS THAT ARE FILLED 
AND WE DO HAVE THROUGH THIS REVENUE GENERATION THE ABILITY 
TO KEEP THOSE POSITIONS, THEN THERE'S NO CHANGE IN OUR 
RECREATIONAL PROGRAM STAFFING.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- THAT THIS ALSO DOES IS IT -- WE 
WILL CHANGE THE WAY THAT WE RUN OUR SUMMER PROGRAM WITH 
FIELD TRIPS.
WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE COSTS, THE $50 FOR EACH OF THE -- 
THE REGISTRATION, BUT ALL THE FIELD TRIPS ARE EXTRA AND 
THEY'RE OPTIONAL, SO IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR ALL 
THE FIELD TRIPS, YOU MAY PAY -- AND WE'VE SAID ANYWHERE 
BETWEEN 2- TO 300, BUT IT HAS BEEN AS HIGH AS $5- TO $600 
FOR SUMMER FIELD TRIPS VARYING CENTERS.
IT'S REALLY UP TO THE CENTER MANAGERS.
SO THE PARENTS ARE STILL PAYING.
HERE'S ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE.
IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR THE FIELD TRIPS, YOU DON'T 
GO, AND I THINK WHAT WE'VE HAD A CREATION OF IS WE'VE GOT A 
HAVE AND HAVE-NOT SITUATION WHERE WE'LL HAVE SOME KIDS THAT 
DON'T GO ON ANY FIELD TRIPS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD THEM 
AND THOSE THAT GO ON ALL THE FIELD TRIPS, AND THEY'RE 
PAYING $2- TO $400 PER SUMMER.
WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IN THAT 30 -- THAT $5 TO $30 FEE IS 
THE FIELD TRIPS, TWO A WEEK, WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE FEE, 
SO GENERALLY IT'S NOT AN INCREASE IF YOU'VE BEEN PAYING FOR 
THE FIELD TRIPS, AND IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN BECAUSE YOU 
COULDN'T AFFORD, YOU PROBABLY WILL BE IN THE SLIDING SCALE 
DOWN, AND IT WOULDN'T BE AN EXTRA COST.
AND I THINK THAT THAT BRINGS ALL THE KIDS TOGETHER, AND 
THAT'S REALLY HOW WE WANT TO PROCEED WITH WORKING OUR 
SUMMER PROGRAMS, AND IT'S THE LEAST IMPACTING.
PROBABLY OUT OF THESE TWO PROGRAMS, THE AFTERSCHOOL 
PROGRAM, THE $20-A-WEEK MAXIMUM, $5 MINIMUM, WILL GENERATE 
-- THAT'S -- THAT'S ONE OF THE AREAS THAT WE DO HAVE -- YOU 
KNOW, THAT IS AN INCREASE OVER WHAT IT IS NOW, BUT WE 
BELIEVE THAT BASED ON WHAT -- THE 40-WEEK PROGRAM AND THE 
FULL STAFFING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT IT'S REASONABLE, 
ESPECIALLY WITH THE SLIDING SCALE THAT YOU ASKED US TO LOOK 
AT.
NOW, THE ATTACHMENT 1, WHICH IS THE BACK, THAT GENERATES -- 
THAT SHOWS THE SLIDING SCALE.
WE'RE BASING IT ON THE PERCENTAGE OF POVERTY AND ABOVE FROM 
UNDER 100% POVERTY UP TO 200%.
WE GIVE DISCOUNTS FOR THE ABILITY TO PAY.
WE ALSO ARE PROPOSING DISCOUNTS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF 
KIDS, AND IF YOU ARE A BAZILLIONAIRE -- I WANT TO SEE THAT 
ON THE SCREEN -- YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET A DISCOUNT FOR 
HAVING MORE THAN ONE CHILD.
IT MIGHT NOT BE AS GREAT A DISCOUNT, BUT WE SHOW THAT, YOU 
KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE A $20-A-WEEK FEE AND YOU'VE 
GOT TWO KIDS, YOUR SECOND CHILD IS $15, NOT A LOT OF 
DISCOUNT, BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY.
COMPARABLE PROGRAMS, THE YMCA AND THE SCHOOL BOTH CHARGE 
$48.
THEY HAVE A SLIDING SCALE TO 10.
I THINK OURS IS EXTREMELY REASONABLE WHEN YOU -- WHEN 
YOU'RE STARTING AT A 20 DOWN TO A FIVE.
WE'LL HAVE SOME CENTERS THAT THE MOST ANYONE PAYS WOULD BE 
$5.
WE'LL HAVE SOME CENTERS THAT EVERYBODY MAY PAY THE 20 JUST 
BECAUSE OF OUR GEOGRAPHIC DIVERSITY THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.
THAT REVENUE THAT GENERATES RESTORES THE CUTS AND PAYS FOR 
THE FIELD TRIPS, AND ALSO, WITH THAT FEE STRUCTURE WE CAN 
THEN GO TO THE FULL EXPANSION, ALL THE 2700 OF OUR WAITING 
LIST, BECAUSE THE FEE IS THERE.
THAT SAME FEE GENERATES ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR THE 
ADDITIONAL PART-TIME STAFF THAT WE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO 
SUPERVISE, SO THAT AUTOMATICALLY ALLOWS US TO DO THAT.
WE'LL JUST HAVE TO GET AUTHORIZATION TO ADD THOSE PPTs TO 
OUR BUDGET.
SO THAT -- THAT'S WHY WHEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT HOW ALL 
THIS CAME TOGETHER, EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED TO DO CAN BE 
ADDRESSED WITH THIS FEE IN THIS WAY.
THE OPTION 2 THERE WAS THE SUMMER ONLY ISSUE THAT YOU DID 
BRING UP.
WE HAVE A $1,045,000 THAT WE'D HAVE TO COME UP WITH.
THAT GENERALLY IS ABOUT THE 25 TO 30 FOR THE SUMMER, BUT IT 
WOULDN'T INCLUDE THE FIELD TRIPS.
AND THEN OPTION 3, AS I MENTIONED, IS THE EXPANSION, AND 
YOU CAN SEE THAT THE 2695 ON THE WAITING LIST FOLLOWING THE 
FEE STRUCTURE OF THE FIVE TO TEN -- OR EXCUSE ME, FIVE TO 
20  GENERATES THE MONEY NECESSARY, ALL BUT ABOUT 150,000, 
WHICH WE CAN ABSORB WITHIN THE TOTAL REVENUE, WHAT WE NEED 
TO DO TO ADD THE PEOPLE.
WE TRY TO MAINTAIN A 1-TO-30 RATIO.
OUR AVERAGE DAILY ATTENDANCE MAY BE FLUCTUATING TO WHERE WE 
GET BETTER THAN 1 TO 30 BUT NO LESS THAN 1 TO 30, AND I'LL 
BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER WHITE.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
MARK, I JUST WANTED TO, FIRST OF ALL, COMMEND YOUR GROUP 
FOR BEING ABLE TO COME UP WITH SUCH THOUGHTFUL 
CONSIDERATION WITH THIS.
I PARTICULARLY LIKE THE OPTION 3 THAT GIVES US THE 
POTENTIAL FOR EXPANSION, AND NOT ONLY THAT, IT GIVES OUR 
COUNTY RESIDENTS AND PARENTS SOME EASE OF KNOWING THAT THEY 
CAN HAVE PROGRAMS THAT ARE STILL SUPERVISED AND MANAGED BY 
QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT ARE STILL 
REASONABLY PRICED AND THEIR CHILDREN WILL HAVE A SAFE PLACE 
TO GO AND PLAY AND RECREATE, AND ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT 
THE -- BEING ABLE TO SAVE THE SUMMER PROJECT, AND EVEN THE 
PEOPLE THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE SELF-PAY FOR THE 
FIELD TRIPS, AT LEAST THEIR CHILDREN WILL STILL BE IN SAFE, 
SUPERVISED ENVIRONMENTS, AND YOU THINK THAT YOU-ALL HAVE 
DONE A WONDERFUL JOB OF COMING UP WITH THIS, AND I 
ESPECIALLY LIKE THE RATE AND RATIO THAT YOU USED FOR THE 
RANGE OF PAYMENT AND ALSO ALLOWING A MULTICHILD DISCOUNT NO 
MATTER WHAT THE INCOME BRACKET AS LONG AS YOU ARE HAVING 
MULTIPLE CHILDREN IN THE SYSTEM, AND I THINK THAT THIS IS A 
WONDERFUL PROGRAM, AND FINAL ANALYSIS ON FIRST BLUSH AND 
LISTENING TO YOUR EXPLANATION, I WAS GOING OVER THIS WHILE 
YOU WERE EXPLAINING IT, BUT I THINK NOT ONLY WILL IT GIVE 
YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT AND OUR COMMUNITY A COST SAVINGS, 
BUT I THINK IT WILL ALLEVIATE A LOT OF PROBLEMS FOR THE 
POLICE AND SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AS WELL DURING OUR SUMMER 
AND AFTERSCHOOL BY HAVING QUALITY THINGS FOR OUR CHILDREN 
AND OUR YOUTH TO DO BECAUSE WITHOUT THE PROGRAMS THAT YOU-
ALL PROVIDE AND WITHOUT THE SUPERVISION THAT YOU-ALL 
PROVIDE, IDLE -- YOU KNOW, IDLE MINDS ARE THE DEVIL'S 
WORKSHOP, AND OUR CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE GREAT 
POTENTIAL OF BEING OUT HERE IN HARM'S WAY AND GETTING IN 
TROUBLE, AND I'M ALSO GLAD THAT THESE WERE ABLE TO FUND THE 
POSITIONS NEEDED AS WELL BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A 
FUN TIME --
>>MARK THORNTON:  RIGHT.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  -- GOING THROUGH REDUCTIONS, AND AS HARD AS 
TIMES ARE, PEOPLE NEED EVERY OPPORTUNITY THEY HAVE TO WORK 
AS WELL AS PLAY IN THIS INSTANCE, SO THANK YOU TO YOU AND 
YOUR TEAM, AND I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT 
PRESENTATION, AND THANK YOU.
>>MARK THORNTON:  COMMISSIONERS, I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T 
MENTION THE TWO ISSUES, THE CHILD-CARE LICENSING AND 
TRANSPORTATION.
I WANT TO JUST QUICKLY COVER THAT.
THE CHARGING OF FEES, WE ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE 
ORDINANCE; HOWEVER, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RECOMMEND THAT THE 
FEES START UP UNTIL WE HAVE A SEMESTER BREAK, JANUARY.
WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF REVIEWING THE CHILD-CARE LICENSING 
ORDINANCE.
THERE IS A STATE RULE THAT ALLOWS EXEMPTIONS FOR CHILD-
AGE -- SCHOOL-AGE CHILDREN AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS, AND THAT 
EXEMPTION AT THE STATE LEVEL IS NOT IN OUR LOCAL ORDINANCE, 
AND WE'RE GOING TO ASK THAT WE PUT THAT IN THERE AND BRING 
THAT BACK TO YOU SO THAT WE WOULD THEN BE WITHIN THE 
REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE, OUR EXEMPTION WOULD BE IN 
OUR SQUARE FOOTAGE OF INDOOR SPACE.
WE HAVE SO MUCH OUTDOOR SPACE, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE JUST FOR 
US, IT WOULD BE FOR EVERYONE WHO COULD MEET THAT SAME 
REQUIREMENT, AND IF WE DON'T, IT WILL AFFECT US.
AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I DON'T LEAVE YOU THINKING THAT WE 
DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT, BUT WE BELIEVE THE CHANGE IN 
THE ORDINANCE WILL BE SUPPORTED CERTAINLY BY ALL OF OUR 
FOLKS BECAUSE IT ALLOWS US TO MAINTAIN AND INCREASE THE 
NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS, GET RID OF THE WAITING LIST, WHICH 
IS A GREAT THING, SO WE'LL BE BRINGING THAT FORWARD THIS 
FALL SO THAT WE CAN MAKE IT ALL HAPPEN IN TIME FOR JANUARY.
SECONDLY, THE BUSING ISSUE, SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, THE 
SCHOOL HAS BEEN WORKING ON TRYING TO ADDRESS THE 
TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, AND AS LATE AS THIS MORNING I SPOKE 
TO THE TRANSPORTATION DIRECTOR, AND THEY HAVE TOLD US THAT 
THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE BUSING TO REC CENTERS WITH 
ELIGIBLE CHILDREN WITH CENTERS WITHIN THE ZONE.
NOW, WE THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO TWO YEARS 
AGO, BUT THEY CONTINUED TO BUS OUT OF THE ZONE IN MANY 
CASES.
THEY'RE TELLING US, WELL, NOW THEY'RE GOING TO BUS ONLY 
WITHIN THE ZONE, SO RATHER THAN HAVING 2-, 3,000 KIDS 
AFFECTED, WE MAY ONLY HAVE A THOUSAND AFFECTED.
WE DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS YET, BUT I THINK THAT THAT 
CONCERN AND THAT ISSUE, WHICH IS -- WAS A COSTLY ONE FOR 
US, IS QUICKLY GOING AWAY, AND THE PARENTS SEEM TO BE -- 
THEY'RE DOING THEIR THING WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD AND THAT 
DIRECTION, SO WE DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT IN HERE BECAUSE WE 
BELIEVE THAT PROBABLY IT'S GOING TO BE LESS OF AN ISSUE 
THAN WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT AND WE WERE ORIGINALLY PREPARED 
TO DEAL WITH, SO I WANTED TO MENTION THOSE TWO THINGS.
FORGIVE ME FOR --
>>KEVIN WHITE:  WAS THAT TO RELIEVE THE OVERCROWDING AT ANY 
ONE PARTICULAR FACILITY?
>>MARK THORNTON:  IT -- IT MAY ADJUST WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO 
GO.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.
IF --
>>MARK THORNTON:  AND IT MAY OVERCROWD SOME AND IT MAY 
ALLEVIATE THE CROWDING IN OTHERS.
I THINK WHAT WE'LL HAVE TO DO IS -- IS TRY TO BALANCE, AND 
ONCE YOU'RE FULL IN A CENTER HERE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO 
GO TO ANOTHER CENTER FOR THE PROGRAM.
RIGHT NOW THAT HAPPENS.
SOME -- WE HAVE OPENINGS NOW IN SOME, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU 
LIVE IN KEYSTONE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO BALM.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  SURE.
>>MARK THORNTON:  AND WE KNOW THAT, BUT WE'VE GOT THEM SO 
SPREAD OUT THAT -- THAT WE -- WE WILL BALANCE OUR 
REGISTRATION TO MAXIMIZE THE NUMBER IN OUR PROGRAMS.
BASICALLY WE'LL GO TO WHAT WE HAVE IN THE SUMMER YEAR-
ROUND.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  OKAY.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER BLAIR.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  COMMISSIONER WHITE, I THOUGHT YOU DID A 
GOOD JOB ON EXPOUNDING ON OPTION 3.
I LIKE THAT AS WELL.
HOWEVER, YOU MENTIONED THAT CHILDREN FROM LESSER INCOMES 
WOULD BE VOID OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND SOME OF THE 
FIELD TRIPS.
>>MARK THORNTON:  NO, THEY WOULD GO TO THE FIELD TRIPS.
NOW THEY DON'T.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  OKAY.
NOW THEY'LL BE ABLE TO --
>>MARK THORNTON:  ALL THE FIELD TRIPS ARE INCLUDED IN THIS 
FEE.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  OKAY.
>>MARK THORNTON:  SO THERE WON'T BE EXTRA FEES FOR ANY 
FIELD TRIPS, AND WE MAY CUT BACK FROM FOUR TO TWO A WEEK, 
BUT I BELIEVE THAT TWO A WEEK IS ADEQUATE FOR A VERY GOOD 
PROGRAM, AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE MORE CHALLENGED AT HOW 
WE PLAN OUR FIELD TRIPS, USING SOME OF OUR VENUES.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  RIGHT.
>>MARK THORNTON:  WE'VE GOT WONDERFUL PARKS TO TAKE KIDS 
TO, TO LETTUCE LAKE, UPPER TAMPA BAY, E.G. SIMMONS, MEDARD, 
INSTEAD OF JUST TAKING THEM TO BUSCH GARDENS OR WHATEVER 
WHERE WE DO, YOU KNOW, TAKE THEM TO SOME OF OUR FACILITIES 
THAT DON'T HAVE AN ENTRY FEE.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  YOU CAN BRING THEM TO COMMISSIONER 
HIGGINBOTHAM'S KIDS IN THE COUNTY PROGRAM --
>>MARK THORNTON:  SURE.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  -- AND TAKE A TOUR OF COUNTY CENTER.
>>MARK THORNTON:  BUT NO.
RIGHT NOW WE DON'T -- THERE'S A LOT OF KIDS THAT ARE 
ELIMINATED FROM THE FIELD TRIPS BECAUSE OF AFFORDABILITY.
WE'RE GOING TO NOT -- WE'RE STOPPING THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE --
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  RIGHT.
>>MARK THORNTON:  -- ALL THE FIELD TRIPS INCLUDED IN --
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  AND I LIKE THAT --
>>MARK THORNTON:  I DO TOO.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  -- AND I THINK THAT'S VERY FAIR.
I THINK YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB WITH THIS, AND I THINK 
EVERYBODY SHOULD BE HAPPY.
FROM EVERY PERSON THAT I HEARD COME UP HERE AND SPEAK, 
BASED ON WHAT WE HEARD FROM EVERYBODY, THEY WERE WILLING TO 
PAY SOMETHING, AND I THINK THIS IS EVEN LESS THAN WHAT 
PEOPLE EXPECTED THAT THEY WOULD BE PAYING, SO I THINK IT'S 
A GREAT JOB, IT'S ON A SLIDING SCALE.
MANY OF THE THINGS THAT COMMISSIONER WHITE ARTICULATED ON, 
FOR THOSE VERY SAME REASONS THIS IS WHAT I WOULD SUPPORT -- 
BE LEANING TO SUPPORT AT THIS TIME.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER FERLITA.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU.
MARK, YOU'VE PROBABLY ACCOMPLISHED WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE 
WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH.
I DON'T HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT.
I HAD A MEETING FROM 1:00 TO 1:30 WITH THE DEPARTMENT HEAD, 
AND WE RECEIVED THIS DOCUMENT AT 1:05.
AND I'VE BEEN VERY DISTRACTED SINCE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 
STUFF, AND I DON'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE I HAVEN'T 
REVIEWED IT ENOUGH AS FAR AS MY -- YOU KNOW, MY POSITION.
IT'S LIKE WHEN I USED TO GO TO SCHOOL, SOMETIMES I WASN'T A 
REAL, REAL GOOD STUDENT, SO I DIDN'T DO MY HOMEWORK, AND I 
PRAYED TO GOD THAT DAY THAT THAT TEACHER WOULD NOT ASK ME 
QUESTIONS BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW THE SUBJECT MATTER, AND I 
WAS HOPING I COULD CRAM AFTER THAT TO CATCH UP WITH WHAT I 
SHOULD HAVE DONE BEFORE.
WE HAVE AN ISSUE THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TALKING TO US ABOUT, 
LOBBYING US ABOUT IN TERMS OF THEIR CHILDREN AND 
AFTERSCHOOL AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
23.5 MINUTES BEFORE WE LOOK AT THIS TO TELL YOU, MARK, WE 
LOVE WHAT YOU DID IN THIS, BUT WHY DON'T WE MODIFY OPTION 1 
OR OPTION 3 OR OPTION WHATEVER, SO -- I JUST DON'T THINK 
THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO DO BUSINESS.
I'VE EXPRESSED THAT BEFORE.
BECAUSE OF THAT, I FEEL LIKE I'M HANDICAPPED TO EITHER 
COMPLIMENT WHAT YOU'VE DONE OR GIVE YOU SOME CONSTRUCTIVE 
CRITICISM TO MAYBE MODIFY 1, 2, OR 3.
I'M HOPING THAT AS WE GO TO THURSDAY -- BECAUSE THIS SHOULD 
BE LIKE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THURSDAY; RIGHT?
>>PAT BEAN:  THIS WILL BE THE RECOMMENDATION BEFORE YOU ON 
THURSDAY.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  I CAN'T MODIFY YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS 
BECAUSE I DON'T -- I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE SUBJECT MATTER 
ENOUGH.
>>MARK THORNTON:  WE'LL BE AVAILABLE ANY TIME AND THURSDAY 
ALSO TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ONCE YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK 
THROUGH THIS.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  WELL, BUT I -- THAT'S GOING TO BE 
DIFFICULT, AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING 
FOR THURSDAY, SO I'M NOT SURE IF I'M GOING TO HAVE THE 
OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE -- THIS IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO DO STUFF 
AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.
BUDGET'S IMPORTANT.
THIS WAS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT.
WE SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE TIME.
>>KEN HAGAN:  WELL, MARK, LET ME, FIRST OF ALL, SAY I DO 
AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER FERLITA.
I MEAN, I ACTUALLY ASKED FOR THE INFORMATION YESTERDAY, AND 
IT DEFINITELY HELPS, THE EARLIER WE CAN GET THE 
INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, PROVIDES US TO HAVE GREATER DIALOGUE 
AND DISCUSSION ON THE ISSUES, BUT THAT BEING SAID, I AM 
VERY PLEASED WITH WHAT YOU'VE PROPOSED, YOU KNOW, FROM ALL 
THE CONVERSATIONS AND E-MAILS THAT I'VE EXCHANGED WITH 
PARENTS, IT WAS VERY CLEAR TO ME THAT THEY DID NOT WANT TO 
OUTSOURCE THE PROGRAM, WANTED TO KEEP THEIR COACHES -- 
THESE COACHES ARE LIKE FAMILY TO THE PARENTS -- AND WANTED 
TO NOT ONLY SUSTAIN THE SERVICE LEVELS BUT EXPAND THE 
PROGRAM, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO 
ACCOMPLISH ALL OF THAT BY NOT REDUCING THE FULL-TIME PARK 
DIRECTORS OR COACHES, WE'RE ALLOWING THE SERVICE LEVEL TO 
REMAIN, AND ULTIMATELY EXPAND THE PROGRAM, SO I'M VERY, 
VERY PLEASED WITH THAT.
A COUPLE THINGS I WANT TO POINT OUT.
I LIKE WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH THE FIELD TRIPS AND INCLUDING 
ALL OF THE CHILDREN.
I'M SENSITIVE TO THOSE WHO CANNOT PAY.
I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT ONE THING, AND I'LL JUST USE, FOR 
EXAMPLE, THE PARK THAT MY SON'S AT.
THERE'S PROBABLY 200, 250, 300 KIDS AT THE PARK, AND THEY 
WENT TO -- THEY HAD A FIELD TRIP TO BUSCH GARDENS THE OTHER 
DAY, AND I THINK THEY TOOK 40 KIDS.
THAT'S ALL THAT THEY COULD DO.
IT'S FIRST-COME, FIRST-SERVE, SO MANY PEOPLE OR MANY -- 
MANY KIDS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GO, AND IT'S NOT ONLY THOSE 
THAT DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY, IT'S -- A LOT OF THEM HAD THE 
MONEY, THEY JUST DIDN'T SIGN UP QUICK ENOUGH OR EARLY 
ENOUGH.
>>MARK THORNTON:  WE JUST TOOK ONE BUS.
>>KEN HAGAN:  YEAH.
SO SOMEHOW THAT NEEDS TO BE FACTORED IN, AND IF EVERYONE'S 
GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO GO, THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE'LL BE MORE 
OPERATION COSTS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, SO PLEASE 
CONSIDER THAT.
REGARDING THE TRANSPORTATION ISSUE, I LIKE THE FACT -- I'M 
PLEASED WITH WHAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT INDICATED AS FAR 
AS THEY'RE GOING TO BUS WITHIN THE ZONE.
I WOULD LIKE TO INQUIRE -- IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'LL STILL BE 
A THOUSAND-PLUS KIDS POTENTIALLY IMPACTED BY ELIMINATING 
THE OUTSIDE-OF-THE-ZONING TRANSPORTATION ISSUES.
I KNOW WE SENT A LETTER AND THERE'S BEEN SOME DIALOGUE WITH 
THE SUPERINTENDENT.
I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE THE POSSIBILITY -- AND MAYBE WE'VE 
KIND OF ASKED IN GENERAL TERMS, BUT I'D LIKE TO EXPLORE THE 
POSSIBILITY OF A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WITH 
RESPECT TO POTENTIALLY FUNDING OUTSIDE OF THE ZONE 
TRANSPORTATION.
I KNOW WE'RE NOT IN THE BUSING BUSINESS, BUT SEE WHAT THAT 
COST IS, MAYBE IT'S POSSIBLE FOR US TO, YOU KNOW, PARTNER 
WITH THEM, SPLIT HALF THE COST, AND KIND OF EXPLORE THAT.
MAYBE THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF 
IT'S GONE FAR ENOUGH.
>>MARK THORNTON:  WE DID ASK THE SCHOOL BOARD THERE, AND 
THE ISSUE IS THEY DON'T HAVE THE DRIVERS TO BE ABLE TO DO 
THAT, AND THEY TOLD US WHAT -- YOU KNOW, REITERATED THEIR 
MISSION AND THAT THEY COULD ONLY DO THESE THINGS TO 
ACCOMPLISH THEIR MISSION.
IN MY CONVERSATION WITH THE -- WITH THE DIRECTOR OF 
TRANSPORTATION AND ALSO IN THE SUPERINTENDENT'S RESPONSE TO 
THE LETTERS THAT PAT SENT TO HER, THEY -- THEY ALSO 
INDICATED THEY WERE SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASING THE ENROLLMENT 
OF THEIR OUT-OF-SCHOOL PROGRAM.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SUBSTANTIAL INCREASING THE 
ENROLLMENT MEANS, BUT THEY HAVE INDICATED TO ME IN PAST 
CONVERSATIONS THAT THEY HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM TO EXPAND.
OF COURSE, THEY'VE GOT PLENTY OF SQUARE FOOTAGE.
THOSE -- THOSE THAT CAN'T GET TO THE CENTERS BECAUSE THEY 
WERE GOING TO A CENTER OUTSIDE THE ZONE, THEY'RE STRONGLY 
ENCOURAGING THEM AND MAKING AVAILABLE TO THEM THE 
AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM AT THE SCHOOL.
OUR SIGN-UPS COULD REDUCE.
I SUSPECT THERE'S PROBABLY -- IF WE -- THIS IS WHAT 
HAPPENED TWO YEARS AGO.
WE HAD 844 IMPACTED BY THE BUSING SITUATION.
WE MIGHT HAVE LOST THOSE, BUT WE GAINED OFF THE WAITING 
LIST 844 THAT WANTED AND COULD GET TO THE CENTER, SO WE HAD 
NO IMPACT IN OUR SIGN-UPS.
I'M SURE THERE WAS A FLIP-FLOPPING AS TO WHERE THE KIDS 
WENT, OF COURSE, BUT -- AND I ALSO -- AGAIN, I SUSPECT THAT 
THAT WOULD HAPPEN THIS YEAR.
I ALSO BELIEVE IF WE GET RID OF OUR WAITING LIST, WE'LL 
HAVE ANOTHER WAITING LIST.
IF WE CAP IT AT 3,000 MORE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 3,000 MORE 
ON THE WAITING LIST.
WE'LL NEVER ACCOMPLISH GETTING RID OF THE WAITING LIST, AS 
WE HAVE THE BEST PROGRAM IN TOWN AND THE LOWEST-COST 
PROGRAM IN THE TOWN, EVEN WITH THESE FEES, BUT WE'LL STILL 
MAINTAIN OR WILL MAINTAIN AS MANY AS WE CAN WITH KEEPING 
OUR STAFF RATIOS.
>>KEN HAGAN:  OKAY.
AND MY LAST COMMENT, AND THEN WE NEED TO MOVE ON, IN 
COMMUNICATING WITH MANY PARENTS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL 
MONTHS, YOU KNOW, I ASSURED THEM THAT -- AT LEAST FROM MY 
PERSPECTIVE -- THAT ANY RATE THAT WE WOULD POTENTIALLY 
CHARGE WOULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER THAN OTHER PROGRAMS OR 
CLUBS IN THE COUNTY, AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WITH 
RESPECT TO OTHER SUMMER PROGRAMS I KNOW THAT BECAUSE MY -- 
ALTHOUGH MY SON PARTICIPATES IN THE COUNTY PROGRAM, HE ALSO 
IS DOING OTHER COUNTY CAMPS THROUGHOUT THE WEEK.
THIS WEEK HE'S AT, YOU KNOW, YMCA CAMP, AND I CAN TELL YOU 
THAT FOR CAMPS AT THE YMCA OVER THE SUMMER, IF YOU'RE A 
MEMBER, IT'S EITHER $130 A WEEK OR $140 A WEEK.
IF YOU'RE A NONMEMBER, IT'S $185 A WEEK OR $200 A WEEK.
A COUPLE MONTHS AGO OR A MONTH AGO I SENT MY SON TO JESUIT 
BASEBALL CAMP.
THAT WAS $125 A WEEK.
WITH THIS YOU'RE TALKING A MAXIMUM OF UP TO $30 A WEEK.
>>MARK THORNTON:  30.
>>KEN HAGAN:  SO IT'S SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER THAN YMCA, WHICH 
WAS ONE OF THE ORGANIZATIONS YOU WERE CONSIDERING 
POTENTIALLY OUTSOURCING TO, SO IT'S CLEAR THAT WHATEVER 
RATES THAT WOULD BE CHARGED WOULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER 
THAN OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.
OKAY.
COMMISSIONER BLAIR.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  JUST REAL QUICKLY, I WANTED TO ASK WHAT 
FORM OF PAYMENT WERE YOU GOING TO USE?
HOW WERE YOU GOING TO COLLECT THESE FEES?
>>MARK THORNTON:  THEY'LL -- WE HAVE -- RIGHT NOW WE ACCEPT 
MONEY ORDERS AND CHECKS, NO CASH IN ANY OF OUR FEE 
STRUCTURE.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EVALUATE THIS WHOLE PROCESS.
WE COLLECT THESE FEES NOW.
THEY'LL BE A LITTLE MORE OFTEN AND A LITTLE MORE, OF 
COURSE, SO WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THE CLERK'S OFFICE, 
WITH BUDGET OFFICE, AND THEN OUR STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT WE 
SET UP THE PROGRAM, AND AGAIN, WE DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING 
BEFORE JANUARY 1st.
WE'VE GOT TO GET IT UNDER CONTROL BEFORE WE START.
THAT'S MY BEST RESPONSE TO YOU.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST IF YOU HAD A WAY FOR 
THEM TO ENROLL ON-LINE THAT YOU COULD GET --
>>MARK THORNTON:  THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS TO DO THAT.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  BUILD YOUR OWN PAYPAL OR MAKE SOMETHING 
SIMILAR.
>>MARK THORNTON:  YEAH.
>>BRIAN BLAIR:  YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO BUILD IN AN 
EXTRA --
>>MARK THORNTON:  WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT 
EVERYTHING. IF IT'S CONVENIENT, IT WILL BE A BREEZE; IF 
IT'S INCONVENIENT, IT'LL BE A STRUGGLE, AND WE DON'T WANT 
IT TO BE A STRUGGLE.
>>KEN HAGAN:  THANKS, MARK.
GOOD WORK.
NEXT ITEM.
>>PAT BEAN:  WELL, JUST IN ADDITION TO WHAT MARK SAID ABOUT 
HE'S NOT GOING TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THE FEE STRUCTURE 
UNTIL AFTER THE HOLIDAY BREAK IN DECEMBER; HOWEVER, HE'S 
ALSO NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING WITH FEES FOR THE REST 
OF THIS SUMMER, SO PEOPLE HAVE TIME TO ADJUST, AND ALSO 
THAT GIVES US TIME TO PUT OUR SYSTEM IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE 
THAT WE HAVE IT IN PLACE IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE WE'RE DOING 
IT RIGHT, SO I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THE PLAN IS, 
AND I REALLY DO THINK THAT THE PLAN THAT'S BEEN PUT BEFORE 
YOU TODAY DOES ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT WE HEARD FROM THE 
PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE COMING IN TO SPEAK AND ALSO FROM 
YOU, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, AS YOU TOLD US YOUR CONCERNS.
>>MARK SHARPE:  COMMISSIONER FERLITA HAS A --
>>ROSE FERLITA:  ERIC, YOU'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH AND GIVE 
US AN OVERVIEW OF THE CAPITAL BUDGET.
OKAY.
SO BEFORE YOU DO THAT, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I JUST HAVE ONE 
QUESTION IN PREPARATION FOR THURSDAY.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT COME DOWN HERE ALL 
OF THE TIME.
THEY PROBABLY HAVE MORE PERFECT ATTENDANCE THAN SOME PEOPLE 
THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE 
SUPPOSED TO DO AS PART OF THEIR JOB.
SO FOR THEM THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE COUNTY 
COMMUNICATING ANY KIND OF PUBLIC SERVICE INFORMATION OR 
THOSE TYPES OF ISSUES.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT TOWN HALL MEETINGS BECAUSE I THINK 
OUR DOLLARS ARE NOT AS WELL SPENT THERE AS THEY ARE WITH 
PUBLIC SERVICE INFORMATION SLOTS ON OUR TELEVISIONS.
MAINLY WE HAVE -- BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE STAFF SOMETIMES THAN 
WE HAVE MORE AUDIENCE, SO I KNOW THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT 
FROM THE STANDPOINT OF COMMUNICATION AND BUDGET CUTS IN 
THAT SPECIFIC DEPARTMENT, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF WE'RE LOOKING 
AT THE RIGHT DOLLAR FIGURE IN TERMS OF ELIMINATING SOME OF 
THE PUBLIC SERVICE THINGS THAT COMMUNICATION DOES, SO WHAT 
I WOULD LIKE, WITHOUT SPENDING A LOT OF TIME TODAY BECAUSE 
I KNOW WE'RE A LITTLE BIT PRESSED FOR OUR DEADLINE, BUT I'D 
LIKE TO ASK THAT THE FLAG ON THE COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT 
BE MODIFIED OR AT LEAST BE CONSIDERED TO BE MODIFIED.
WHAT HAPPENS AT A CUT OF 250,000?
WHAT HAPPENS AT A CUT OF 500,000?
WHAT HAPPENS AT A CUT OF 600,000?
I THINK GIVEN THAT THEIR BUDGET IS A LITTLE BIT BELOW
4 MILLION, LOOKING AT A MILLION-DOLLAR CUT IS PRETTY 
DRASTIC.
IF WE CAN GO THROUGH AND DISSECT WHAT THE BEST THING IS 
THAT THEY GIVE OUR PUBLIC -- I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT WE 
HAVE TO DO WITHOUT.
WE DON'T NEED A LOT OF THE FLUFF, WE DON'T NEED A LOT OF 
THE WE'RE THE BEST COUNTY, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO PAT, AND 
I KNOW THAT THAT'S A GOAL FOR HER, THAT'S GOOD, THAT'S A 
GOAL FOR US, BUT THOSE TYPE OF THINGS CAN BE PUT ASIDE FOR 
NOW AND THIS CAN BE THE BEST COUNTY IN THE NATION BY DOING 
EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
TAKE AWAY THE DEPARTMENTS -- OR I MEAN THE PROGRAMS THAT WE 
DON'T NEED IN TERMS OF SERVICES AND BRING THEM BACK WHEN 
THE BUDGET IS A LITTLE FULLER, BUT, I MEAN, I'VE LOOKED AT 
SOME OF THESE CONSIDERATIONS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO US, AND 
I'M SURE ALL MY COLLEAGUES GOT IT, ON THE COST-BENEFIT 
ANALYSIS THAT MR. BELDEN PREPARED, AND I STILL THINK THAT 
IT WARRANTS GOING BACK AND SEEING IF A MILLION DOLLARS IS 
GOING TO CUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT SOME PEOPLE WON'T BE 
ABLE TO KNOW ABOUT UNLESS WE PROVIDE IT VIA THIS.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT CAN'T COME DOWN HERE, THERE 
ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HANDICAPPED, THERE ARE A LOT 
OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HOME-BOUND, AND I THINK WE SHOULD BE 
VERY, VERY SENSITIVE ABOUT WHAT WE TAKE AWAY.
GROCERY STORES AND HOME DEPOT ARE A WONDERFUL PLACE WHERE 
PEOPLE GIVE US THEIR INPUT, AND IT'S LIKE, YOU GUYS ARE 
TAKING AWAY SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MAKE ME KNOW WHAT 
YOU'RE DOING, AND I'VE ELECTED YOU, AND I'M NOT SURE IF I 
WANT TO NOMINATE YOU AGAIN -- I MEAN SUPPORT YOU AGAIN IF 
YOU'RE NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING.
IT'S THE ONLY VEHICLE THEY HAVE, IN MANY CASE, TO KNOW WHAT 
THEIR GOVERNMENT IS DOING, SO I THINK IT WARRANTS AT LEAST 
A RELOOK.
THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING FOR TODAY.
THANK YOU.
>>MARK SHARPE:  COMMISSIONER NORMAN.
>>JIM NORMAN:  GOING BACK TO THE PARK THING FOR A MOMENT, 
ONE OF THE THINGS, JUST BE VERY SENSITIVE TO THE FACT OF 
WHEN YOU SAID YOUR TIMING THAT YOU WERE GOING TO DO THAT, 
YOU'RE GOING TO BE HITTING FAMILIES RIGHT AFTER THE 
CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS WITH A FEE INCREASE, SO MAKE SURE YOU -- 
THERE'S ENOUGH NOTICE OUT THERE THAT PEOPLE HAVE JUST GONE 
THROUGH THE HOLIDAY SEASON, THEIR BUDGETS ARE PROBABLY AT 
THEIR LOWEST POINT, AND THEN THAT'S GOING TO COME ON, SO 
JUST -- THERE NEEDS TO BE ENOUGH --
>>PAT BEAN:  WE'RE GOING TO START THE NOTICE RIGHT AWAY.
>>JIM NORMAN:  OKAY.
BECAUSE THAT TIMING KIND OF JUMPED OUT AT ME, THAT YOU'RE 
GOING TO DO IT RIGHT AFTER THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS.
ANOTHER FLAG THAT -- AND MAYBE YOU-ALL HAVE ALREADY TAKEN 
THIS UNDER CONSIDERATION, BUT READING -- I'M SURE EVERYBODY 
READ THE NEWS OF TECO GOING UP 22% TO 30% POTENTIALLY.
IS THAT BUILT INTO OUR -- INTO OUR BUDGET?
>>PAT BEAN:  NO, SIR, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GET THAT UNTIL SO 
LATE, SO IT WASN'T.
>>JIM NORMAN:  I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT NEEDS TO MAYBE BE 
LOOKED AT FOR OUR OPERATIONS.
ANOTHER THING THAT I WANT TO FLAG THAT -- AND I'VE SENT MR. 
SAAVEDRA TO SPEAK WITH ERIC JOHNSON.
GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT HIS PROPOSED CUTS, ONE OF HIS 
CUTS WAS AN $80,000 PAT-DOWN NUMBER, AND I WENT BACK AND 
INQUIRED WITH OUR ATTORNEY, AND THAT -- THE FACT THAT THE 
COURTS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO RULE AND IT DOESN'T LOOK -- 
DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO RULE IN OUR FAVOR AND 
THEY MAY HAVE TO REINSTITUTE THE PAT-DOWNS, WELL, IF THOSE 
CUTS ARE MADE, WHAT WE DISCUSSED WAS PUTTING A -- KIND OF 
LIKE A TAGGED RESERVE, IF WE LOSE THAT LAWSUIT THAT IT'S 
SITTING THERE AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE NO OPTION, AND 
THAT'S ABOUT -- THAT TIME PERIOD HE REDUCED IT AT 80.
AT THAT TIME PERIOD IT WOULD BE ABOUT 60, AND TWO-
THIRDS/ONE-THIRD, IT WOULD BE ABOUT A $40,000 PIGEONED 
NUMBER THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN RESERVE.
WE HAVE TO PAY IT, WE HAVE NO OPTION, BECAUSE IF THE COURT 
RULES THAT PAT-DOWNS ARE A LEGAL FUNCTION, WE HAVE THAT 
RESPONSIBILITY, SO ANYWAY, JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT.
THAT WAS IN THAT BUDGET.
IT WAS PRESENTED TO US.
WE PASSED THAT NUMBER, AND I DON'T WANT IT TO GO, YOU KNOW, 
WITHOUT ALL THE INFORMATION ON THE TABLE.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  THANK YOU.
QUESTION ON THE PARKS AND THE PAYMENT.
AND PAT CAN PROBABLY ANSWER THIS.
YOU MENTIONED CASH AND MONEY ORDERS.
ARE WE SET UP TO TAKE CHARGE CARDS?
DID I MISS SOMETHING THERE?
>>PAT BEAN:  WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO HAVE THE 
TIME TO GET THAT IN PLACE.
WE DO TAKE CHARGE CARDS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY NOW.
WE DIDN'T USED TO.
THAT ONLY STARTED, WHAT?
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  WELL, I KNOW --
>>PAT BEAN:  HOW MANY?
TEN YEARS?
OH, MY GOSH.
I GUESS I FORGET HOW LONG I'VE BEEN HERE.
TEN YEARS AGO WE STARTED TAKING CREDIT CARDS.
I KNOW IT WAS TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS, AND WE KEPT BEING 
TOLD NO, NO, NO, SO WE DO HAVE THE CAPACITY THROUGH THE 
CLERK'S OFFICE.
WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN MARK IS SET UP TO TAKE 
THE FEES THAT HE CAN DO IT WHICHEVER WAY IS EASIEST FOR THE 
FAMILY.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  OKAY.
THAT'S -- I JUST KNOW -- I KNOW WITH HART, FOR EXAMPLE, 
WHEN I GO TO BUY MY PASSES, I CAN'T PAY WITH A CARD.
NOW, THEY'RE WORKING ON IT, BUT I'VE GOT TO COME UP WITH 
CASH, AND IT'S JUST KIND OF BEING MORE ON THE BUSINESS SIDE 
OF IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, HATS OFF TO YOU.
>>MARK THORNTON:  WE DO IT IN SOME AREAS, BUT WE DON'T IN 
OUR RECREATION FEES, AND I BELIEVE IF WE DID, THAT WOULD BE 
THE MOST CONVENIENT, DEBIT AND CREDIT CARD.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  YEAH.
>>MARK THORNTON:  AND WE CAN KEEP THOSE ON FINAL AND 
AUTOMATICALLY DO THAT.
SO WE -- THAT'S ONE OF OUR GOALS IS TO DO THAT.
THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE EASIER THAN CONTINUING TO TAKE 
CHECKS AND MONEY ORDERS.
>>PAT BEAN:  YEAH.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  OKAY.
WELL, THANK YOU.
>>MARK THORNTON:  THANK YOU.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  AND COMMISSIONER FERLITA, YOUR IDEA ON 
THE -- TAKING A LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE EFFECT ON 
EACH BUDGET INCREMENT.
I LIKE THE IDEA.
THAT'S A SCENARIO THAT I'M CONCERNED WITH, AND I WANT TO 
SEE THAT.
I WANT TO SEE HOW WE DO THAT.
I KNOW IT'S EXTRA WORK AND EXTRA HOURS, AND SO GOOD THOUGHT 
ON THAT.
ONE OTHER PLACE THAT -- THAT -- I'VE ONLY FLAGGED ONE ITEM 
BECAUSE I'VE BEEN MINDFUL OF THIS, BUT I WANT US TO TAKE A 
LOOK AT THE AQUARIUM FUNDING.
I KNOW THAT WE DID THAT LAST YEAR AND WOULD -- DURING THE 
MIDDLE OF THEIR CAPITAL PROGRAM, THE CITY OF TAMPA HAS -- 
HAS PUT IN 500,000 THIS YEAR.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE ANYPLACE TO FIND THE MONEY, BUT 
I'M GOING TO JUST RESPECTFULLY ASK --
>>MARK SHARPE:  SECOND.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  -- ERIC AND THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD 
HERE BECAUSE THEY MADE A GREAT PRESENTATION.
THEY'RE PART OF OUR DOWNTOWN PROGRAM.
WE'RE WORKING WITH EVERYONE, AND WHEN I HEARD COMMISSIONER 
NORMAN TALK ABOUT THE FLOAT BAG OR THE -- THE HOOT BAG OR 
WHATEVER IT WAS THAT WE -- THAT THE SPORTS AUTHORITY 
BROUGHT IN OR THE SPORTS COMMISSION, IT JUST -- IT OCCURRED 
TO ME, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE AQUARIUM AS WELL, SO IF WE 
CAN TAKE A LOOK, GREAT.
YES, SIR, MR. JOHNSON.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  COMMISSIONER, IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION 
-- I'M NOT AWARE THAT WE HAVE A REQUEST.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  WE DON'T HAVE A REQUEST.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  SO IF THERE IS SOMETHING, THAT WOULD BE 
HELPFUL.
WE'LL PUT THAT IN THE BACKUP.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  OKAY.
AND WE DON'T.
IT JUST -- WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THIS.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  SURE.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  AND I JUST WAS INSPIRED WITH SOME OF 
THESE OTHER GOOD THOUGHTS HERE TODAY.
THANK YOU.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER WHITE.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  MS. BEAN, WERE YOU ABOUT TO SAY SOMETHING?
>>PAT BEAN:  WELL, I WAS JUST GOING TO COMMENT THAT BOTH 
COMMISSIONER FERLITA'S ITEM AND COMMISSIONER NORMAN'S ITEM 
ARE ALREADY FLAGGED ITEMS, BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE A SECOND FOR 
THE ADDITION.
DO YOU FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO HAVE ONE?
THIS IS A CALL TO YOU, MR. CHAIR.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  [INAUDIBLE]
>>PAT BEAN:  WELL, HE'S ASKING --
>>ROSE FERLITA:  MODIFICATIONS.
>>KEN HAGAN:  COMMISSIONER SHARPE FLAGGED IT WITH HIM.
>>PAT BEAN:  NO, NO.
>>JIM NORMAN:  MY CASE THAT I RAISED, ACTUALLY WE RECEIVED 
THE SPORTS AUTHORITY'S BUDGET -- IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE 
TALKING ABOUT?
>>PAT BEAN:  YEAH.
>>JIM NORMAN:  THE FACT IS THERE'S A LAWSUIT OUT THERE THAT 
WE CAN'T CONTROL, AND THE FACT THAT I BELIEVE FOR FINANCIAL 
MANAGEMENT, THAT'S A CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION AND THAT IF WE 
CUT THAT MONEY AND THERE'S A CALL ON IT, I THINK WE SHOULD 
BE AWARE FINANCIALLY THAT THERE COULD BE A CALL ON IT.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  I'LL SECOND THAT IF WE NEED IT.
>>JIM NORMAN:  HOLD THE MONEY AND RESERVE IT FOR 60,000.
DON'T SEND IT OVER THERE, KEEP IT.
>>PAT BEAN:  WE'LL KEEP IT.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  MY QUESTION ABOUT THAT, IF I CAN ASK ABOUT 
THAT, MR. HAGAN, DO YOU -- YOU-ALL HAD A MEETING MONDAY, 
DID YOU NOT?
>>JIM NORMAN:  YES.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  DID THAT -- DID THAT COMMITTEE ACCEPT ITS 
BUDGET AS SUBMITTED?
WHAT HAPPENED WITH --
>>JIM NORMAN:  [INAUDIBLE]
>>ROSE FERLITA:  AND I'M SURE THAT WE ALL GOT SOME 
INFORMATION FROM COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE DISSATISFIED WITH 
THE LACK OF RESPONSE.
>>JIM NORMAN:  WE WOULD NOT -- WE WOULD NOT PASS THE 
BUDGET.
WE HAVE CONTINUED IT UNTIL AUGUST 11th, UNTIL DETAILS ARE 
GAINED AND THAT I ONCE AGAIN ASKED FOR THE TRAVEL BUDGET TO 
BE REDUCED, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, SO NO, IT'S GOING -- 
WE'RE NOT GOING TO PASS IT UNTIL WE GET THE DETAILS ON --
>>ROSE FERLITA:  THAT'S WONDERFUL.
AND MR. JOHNSON, I KNOW YOU UPDATED US ON WHAT WE MIGHT BE 
GETTING FROM THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND FROM THE PROPERTY 
APPRAISERS, ET CETERA.
WE'RE FACTORING IN WHAT WE KNOW FOR SURE AT THIS POINT ON 
THE BUDGET MIGHT BE RETURNED TO US IN TERMS OF THOSE 
DOLLARS; RIGHT?
AND THEN DEPENDING ON WHAT MR. NORMAN AND THE REST OF THAT 
BOARD DO, WE MIGHT ACTUALLY REALIZE MORE DOLLARS?
>>PAT BEAN:  YES.
>>JIM NORMAN:  WELL, ACTUALLY, NO.
WHAT -- HE STOOD BEFORE US AND REDUCED IT DOWN.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  UH-HUH.
>>JIM NORMAN:  THAT'S WHAT I HOPE WE PLUG IN BECAUSE THAT'S 
GOT THE REDUCTIONS IN IT, BUT IN REVIEWING WHAT HE 
SUBMITTED BEFORE THIS BOARD, I RECALLED THAT LAWSUIT AND 
WENT BACK AND INQUIRED WITH THE ATTORNEY, AND THAT DECISION 
MAY BE COMING DOWN IN SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER.
WELL, THAT WOULD PUT A BILL BACK TO THIS COUNTY BECAUSE OF 
THE LAWSUIT AND THE OBLIGATION OF PAT-DOWNS, SO I DON'T 
WANT US TO BE HANGING OUT THERE LIKE WE NEVER HEARD IT 
BEFORE BECAUSE THAT -- WE STOPPED THE PAT-DOWNS THAT WAS IN 
THEIR BUDGET LAST YEAR.
HE RETURNED THAT MONEY; HOWEVER --
>>ROSE FERLITA:  YOU WANT US TO KEEP THAT AND NOT GET 
SURPRISED.
>>JIM NORMAN:  RIGHT.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  ALL I'M SAYING IS BECAUSE YOU-ALL DID NOT 
APPROVE WHAT HE SUBMITTED -- AND I'M HAPPY THAT PEOPLE 
DIDN'T DO THAT JUST ON FAITH -- MIGHT THERE BE AN 
OPPORTUNITY WHEN YOUR BOARD COMES BACK TO STILL NOT BE 
SATISFIED WITH WHAT HE HAS RECOMMENDED, AND IS THERE AN 
OUTSIDE CHANCE OF GETTING MORE DOLLARS BACK IN TERMS OF THE 
BUDGET?
WE DON'T KNOW THAT.
>>JIM NORMAN:  SOME.
WE SCRUBBED IT SOME MORE POTENTIALLY.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  OKAY.
THAT'S ALL I WAS --
>>JIM NORMAN:  VERY MINIMALLY, NOT AT THE SIZE NUMBERS 
WE'RE TALKING HERE, MAYBE 20-, 30,000.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  YEAH, BUT WHATEVER IT IS, IT IS.
>>JIM NORMAN:  RIGHT.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  OKAY.
THANKS, JIM.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THANKS.
MR. CHAIRMAN, WHAT I WAS GOING TO MENTION TO STAFF TO FLAG 
WHICH I FAILED TO MENTION IN THE PREVIOUS BUDGET WORKSHOP 
WAS THE SMALL AMOUNT OF FUNDING FOR THE NAACP EMPOWERMENT 
ZONE, WHICH IS THE ECONOMIC ENGINE FOR THAT ORGANIZATION, 
AND IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT EVEN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO BEING AN 
EXORBITANT AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT IF WE COULD HAVE THAT 
FLAGGED FOR -- I THINK WE --
>>PAT BEAN:  DID THEY SUBMIT THAT PROPOSAL TO US?
>>KEVIN WHITE:  I BELIEVE THEY DID.
I SPOKE WITH THE PRESIDENT, AND I BELIEVE THEY DID.
>>PAT BEAN:  WELL, WE'LL FOLLOW UP AND CHECK.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  PLEASE.
>>PAT BEAN:  AND IF THEY HAVEN'T, WE'LL ASK FOR 
INFORMATION.
>>JIM NORMAN:  WELL, COLLEGIAL UNTIL THEY FIND -- I WOULD 
FLAG THAT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF GETTING THE MATERIAL AND 
SEEING IF YOU-ALL HAVE IT OR NOT, BUT IF THEY DIDN'T 
SUBMIT, THERE'S AN ISSUE.
I'D LIKE TO FLAG ONE MORE THING.
BEFORE I LEAVE THE BOARD, I'D ACTUALLY LIKE THE SCAPE THING 
OUTSIDE TO ACTUALLY BE DONE.
WE COULD HAVE BUILT AN ENTIRE 60-STORY BUILDING BY THE TIME 
THAT -- AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE DARNDEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY 
LIFE.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:  [INAUDIBLE]
>>JIM NORMAN:  THAT STUFF OUTSIDE.
>>KEVIN WHITE:  THE HARDSCAPE?
>>PAT BEAN:  THE HARDSCAPE.
>>JIM NORMAN:  THE HARDSCAPE.
I MEAN, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  I ASKED THE SAME QUESTION, AND THEY GAVE 
ME AN UPDATE ON WHAT -- 
>>JIM NORMAN:  THAT WAS A YEAR AGO.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  WE WERE GUARANTEED THAT IF THEY DEFAULT, 
WE'VE GOT THE DOLLARS TO COVER, BUT I AGREE WITH MR. 
NORMAN, WE'RE NOT SO NECESSARILY INTERESTED IN JUST THAT, 
BUT THE FACT IS THAT IT'S NOT MOVING.
>>JIM NORMAN:  IT'S THE UGLIEST THING.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE GOT SANFORD AND SON OUT HERE.
[LAUGHTER]
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO START DROPPING 
STUFF OFF.
[LAUGHTER]
I MEAN, IT'S AWFUL.
>>ROSE FERLITA:  YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER -- AND IT'S NOT LIKE 
I TOLD YOU SO, BUT IT WAS LIKE A FLEA MARKET THING, WILL 
YOU TAKE THIS OR WILL YOU TAKE THAT?
IF YOU GIVE US THIS, WE'LL GET IT DONE.
IF YOU DON'T, WE WON'T DO IT UNTIL LATER.
AND AFTER ALL THOSE CONTORTIONS OF WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO 
DO, STILL WE HAVE IT, SO --
>>KEN HAGAN:  OKAY.
WITH THE SANFORD AND STUFF THING, I THINK IT'S TIME TO WIND 
UP THE MEETING.
COMMISSIONER SHARPE.
>>MARK SHARPE:  I WAS GOING TO BRING THIS UP DURING OUR CIT 
DISCUSSION, BUT JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I'M -- I BROUGHT 
THIS UP WITH MARK THORNTON.
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE UPPER TAMPA BAY TRAIL, THE -- THE -
- WHERE THE INDIVIDUALS PARK THEIR CARS AND BEGIN TO 
BASICALLY -- THE KICKOFF -- THEY CALL IT A TRAILHEAD, I 
BELIEVE IT'S CALLED.
WHEN THE SUNCOAST PARKWAY COMES ALONG, THEY'RE GOING TO 
HAVE TO MOVE IT.
WHEN THEY MOVE IT, IT'S GOING TO GET SMALLER, AND I KNOW 
THAT THE CALLS ARE GOING TO COME TO US, PEOPLE COMPLAINING 
ALREADY THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SPACE TO GO PARK THEIR CAR, GET 
THEIR BICYCLE OFF, AND START OFF.
SO I'M GOING TO BE LOOKING AT CIT FUNDING FOR THAT, BUT IT 
IS SOMETHING THAT DOES -- I WILL BE FLAGGING NEXT WEEK, BUT 
I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT TO YOUR ATTENTION.
>>KEN HAGAN:  IF THAT REQUIRES A FLAG, I'LL FLAG IT WITH 
HIM.
OKAY.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS OR --
>>PAT BEAN:  DO YOU WANT TO GIVE ANY TIME TODAY TO AN 
OVERVIEW OF THE CAPITAL BUDGET AND CIP?
>>KEN HAGAN:  I GUESS SO.
>>PAT BEAN:  ALL RIGHTY.
WELL, WE'RE READY.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  COMMISSIONER, WE'LL BE BRIEF.
>>KEN HAGAN:  QUICKLY.
>>ERIC JOHNSON:  WE HAD GIVEN YOU A COPY OF AN OVERVIEW OR 
A HIGHLIGHT PAGE THURSDAY AND PROVIDED ANOTHER COPY TODAY 
AT YOUR PLACE.
I THINK THE KEY IS THAT DESPITE THE STATE OF OUR 
OPERATIONS, WE DO HAVE A $996-MILLION FIVE-YEAR CIP.
WE'VE GIVEN YOU A CAPITAL DOCUMENT, AND IN THE OPERATING 
BUDGET THERE IS A CAPITAL BUDGET SECTION THAT HIGHLIGHTS 
WHAT'S ANTICIPATED IN THIS UPCOMING YEAR, BUT QUICKLY GOING 
THROUGH THERE, WE DO HAVE A $21-MILLION FIRE CAPITAL 
PROGRAM, INCLUDING $4 MILLION IN NEW REVENUE, NEW 
COMMITMENTS IN FISCAL '09.
THE CASE OF THE GOVERNMENT FACILITIES AREA OF OUR CIP WE 
HAVE A $15-MILLION PROGRAM.
OBVIOUSLY WE'RE PHASING DOWN A LOT OF THE LARGE PROJECTS 
THAT WE'VE BEEN INVESTING IN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, 
BUT WE STILL HAVE $13 MILLION IN NEW FUNDING INTO THE 
GOVERNMENT PROGRAM THIS COMING YEAR.
LIBRARY SERVICES CONTINUES AND WE HAVE SOME NEW REPLACEMENT 
PROJECTS, A $24-MILLION FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM WITH $5 MILLION 
IN NEW FUNDING THIS COMING YEAR.
PARKS FACILITIES, AGAIN WE'RE PHASING DOWN, BUT WE'VE 
COMPLETED SOME SIGNIFICANT PROJECTS RECENTLY.
WE'VE GOT ABOUT A $5-MILLION PROGRAM, AND OBVIOUSLY SOME OF 
THE POTENTIAL PROJECTS ARE IN THAT DISCUSSION NEXT WEEK ON 
THE CIT.
SOLID WASTE IS A $57-MILLION CAPITAL PROGRAM WITH ABOUT $9 
MILLION IN NEW FUNDING, AND WE HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT 
PROJECTS THERE, PARTICULARLY THE RESOURCE RECOVERY CAPACITY 
EXPANSION.
STORMWATER IS A $57-MILLION FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM WITH $17 
MILLION IN NEW FUNDING IN FISCAL '09.
AND THEN TRANSPORTATION, AS YOU KNOW, A SIGNIFICANT 
COMMITMENT EARLIER THIS YEAR, $485-MILLION FIVE-YEAR 
PROGRAM WITH ALMOST $82 MILLION IN NEW FUNDING GOING INTO 
THE TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM NEXT YEAR.
AND THEN FINALLY, IN THE WATER PROGRAM WE'VE GOT A $331-
MILLION FIVE-YEAR CAPITAL PROGRAM WITH SOME SUBSTANTIAL 
PROJECTS AND 86 MILLION IN NEW FUNDING NEXT YEAR.
SO WE'VE GIVEN YOU THE HIGHLIGHTS.
IF ANYONE WATCHING THIS IS INTERESTED IN GETTING DETAILS, 
THEY CAN BE FOUND IN THE FIVE-YEAR CIP WHICH IS ON-LINE OR 
IN THE CAPITAL AREA OF THE BUDGET DOCUMENT, WHICH IS ALSO 
ON-LINE.
>>KEN HAGAN:  ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
OKAY.
WITH THAT, WE'RE ADJOURNED.
SEE EVERYONE AT 9:00 A.M. THURSDAY MORNING.
>>PAT BEAN:  YES, WE'LL BE HERE WITH --


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